2009.01.19 13:00 - Quieting the Mind's Spacial Borders.

Solobill Laville: Rajah!!!!

Solobill Laville: I have not seen you in far too long... :)

Solobill Laville: Hi, Stim :)

Stim Morane: Hi Scathach, Rajah, Solo

Scathach Rhiadra: Hi everyone:)

Solobill Laville: Heya, Scath :)

Stim Morane: Hi Fefonz

Fefonz Quan: Hi Stim, Scathach,Solo :)

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz

Rajah Yalin: hi Stim, Solo, Scat and Fefonz :)

Solobill Laville: Hi Fefonz :)

Fefonz Quan: Hi Raj

Solobill Laville: It is good to see you again, Rajah!

Rajah Yalin: thanks :)

Rajah Yalin: and you too!

Solobill Laville: :)

Rajah Yalin: good to see you all

Fefonz Quan: Hey Tarmel

Stim Morane: Hi Tarmel

Scathach Rhiadra: Hey Tarmel:)

Solobill Laville: Hi, Tarmel :)

Tarmel Udimo: hey there everyone

Tarmel Udimo: stim I'm sorry i have to miss your thursday sessions

Rajah Yalin: hi Tarmel

Tarmel Udimo: hi rajah

Stim Morane: Well, it's just a short chat.

Solobill Laville: Is there a plan to post them?

Tarmel Udimo: will the log be posted?

Solobill Laville winks at Tarmel

Stim Morane: there won't be a log, since what I and Pema say will be voice-chat

Solobill Laville: ah...

Tarmel Udimo: hey solo can't see you

Fefonz Quan: time for a voice-record feature in SL

Tarmel Udimo: I mean the thursday lecture

Solobill Laville nods

Tarmel Udimo: and scath is a ball of white light

Scathach Rhiadra: :) I wish I was

Fefonz Quan: you just see reality as it is Tar :)

Stim Morane: it seems like voice-recording would be nice, and indeed I use such a feature in other virtual worlds teaching I do. But then you end up with a very large number of sound files.

Tarmel Udimo: oh if only fefonz

Tarmel Udimo: true about the sound files being bigger than text

Fefonz Quan: would've thought someone would build an application to translate voice to text

Solobill Laville: (dragon software...but not so good)

Stim Morane: Yes, they're bigger, and there's also no way to peruse them quickly. The voice-to-text capability would be great, but we're still pretty far from having that.

Solobill Laville: Can I ask a question - practically speaking?

Stim Morane: ?

Solobill Laville: I've been reading a little bit about some modern research

Solobill Laville: into brain patterns during meditative states

Solobill Laville: and one study showed two things that occured

Solobill Laville: in both tibetan monks and franciscan nuns

Solobill Laville: 1) the verbal portion of the brain quieted

Solobill Laville: and 2) the part of the brain that identifies

Solobill Laville: "spacial" borders quieted

Solobill Laville: (I don't know the names of these areas...)

Solobill Laville: Is the 2nd finding consitient with any specific practices?

Wol Euler: hello everyone

Stim Morane: Well, what "practice" were they doing in the study

Tarmel Udimo: waves at wol

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol:)

Stim Morane: Hi Wol

Fefonz Quan: Hey Wol :)

Solobill Laville: gads - good question, I assume dzogchen...and...?

Wol Euler: hello fefonz, scath, rajah, solo, tarmel, stim

Rajah Yalin: hi wol :)

Solobill Laville: Heya, Wol :)

Stim Morane: I think there are very few people in the western world, or anywhere for that matter, who really practice Dzogchen in the strict sense.

Fefonz Quan: well, i can tell that even in my humble experience of meditation, weird effects of the visual definition did occur sometimes

Tarmel Udimo: (still don't know why i can't see solo)

Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)

Stim Morane: Hi Adams

Scathach Rhiadra: hello Adams

Solobill Laville: Hi Adams :)

Fefonz Quan: Hey Adams, great hair :)

Solobill Laville: (I'll reframe my question...)

Rajah Yalin: hey Adams

Wol Euler: hello adams! nice dress :)

Solobill Laville: I practice shikan taza; i am accustomed to the idea and practice of letting go of thoughts...

Solobill Laville: However, I don't actively try to expand things spatially...either during meditation or PaB...

Fefonz Quan: perhaps it happens spontaneously, withtout attending, just watching without trying to do anything?

Solobill Laville: you mean the spacial "dropping" / "expansion"?

Fefonz Quan: yep

Solobill Laville: That is like the floor dropping under your feet...

Solobill Laville: Maybe there is a gentler entry?

Tarmel Udimo: hi adam

Fefonz Quan: well, i can only tell of my experience, nothing more

Solobill Laville: Please share your experience

Fefonz Quan: and it wasn't so bad,

Tarmel Udimo: well it makes sense that the spatial areas of the brain would be affected

Tarmel Udimo: this is kind of being 'proved' in our pheon explorations no?

Fefonz Quan: mostly when i stare at monotonic-cheotic surfaces (grass, carpets, etc

Fefonz Quan: they tend sometime to "loose" their definition, their regular appearance

Solobill Laville: Is this a visual effect?

Fefonz Quan: and some "waviness",

Fefonz Quan: yes, sure tarmel

Fefonz Quan: flawingness starts to appear, a little like when you look at 3-D images

Fefonz Quan: that look like a random clatter of dots, til something happens and they start to "get out of the paper"

Wol Euler will be quite fascinated to read the beginning of this discussion.

Fefonz Quan: like the brain is fighting desparately to define pattern from chaos

Wol Euler: ty solo :)

Solobill Laville: ok, thanks, Fefonz

Solobill Laville: I think I am talking about it from a mind-body experiential perspective, no brain though

Wol Euler: Threedee would be the one to ask about the physcial-brain aspect

Fefonz Quan: i'm not sure what that means...

Fefonz Quan: (for Solo)

Solobill Laville is choosing words carefully

Tarmel Udimo: i'm not an expert but it if our ability to 'see' and experience space is what keeps us 'seperate' then when we meditate this drops away as we merge

Solobill Laville: It is the dropping of separateness

Tarmel Udimo: i think so which may be ralted to spactila awareness

Tarmel Udimo: *related

Fefonz Quan: well, i think you go one step farther, Solo

Solobill Laville: Yes, I think dropping is the right verb Tarmel

Fefonz Quan: there is some visual effect - which is strange, but the conclusion of separation need mental definition

Fefonz Quan: whereus while it happens - it's just a visual effect, no more

Solobill Laville gave you New Note.

Tarmel Udimo: do you mean in meditation?

Fefonz Quan: yes, but does it matter?

Fefonz Quan: any moment can be "meditation", can't it?

Solobill Laville: Yes, I especially like sipping coffee looking out the window :)

Tarmel Udimo: yes being aware and the various levels of awareness is what we all strive for :-)

Fefonz Quan: Well, Tea for me, but yes :)

Wol Euler: coffeeandwindow meditation

Fefonz Quan: meteatation here

Solobill Laville: (got that one from Roshi Wol)

Wol Euler: :)

Rajah Yalin: mmm tea

Wol Euler: tea, good idea (slips quietly away...)

Rajah Yalin 10 cups of tea a day keeps the doctor away.

Tarmel Udimo: I'm reading Pierre Teilhard de Chardins' letters to two friends at the moment

Solobill Laville: not familiar with that, Tarmel, do tell

Fefonz Quan: i would have like to hear from some of the more experienced people here if those effects are familiar, since i don't really understand them

Wol Euler: hello blank, you are very blank indeed today.

Wol Euler: welcome to second life, born today.

Rajah Yalin: ghostly looking

Tarmel Udimo: looking for link to make it easier

Fefonz Quan: they say there is a black hole in the center of each galaxy...

Fefonz Quan: hope not in blank ones :)

Tarmel Udimo: ierre Teilhard de Chardin (IPA: pjɛʀ tejaʀ də ʃaʀdɛ̃]; 1 May 1881, Orcines, France – 10 April 1955, New York City) was a French philosopher and Jesuit priest who trained as a paleontologist and geologist

Adams Rubble: :)

Scathach Rhiadra: :)

Blank Galaxy: lol

Wol Euler: Blank, I'll give you an introduction to the group in IM so that we don't disturb the group

Tarmel Udimo: he was trying to reconcile faith and scientific thought

Solobill Laville: brb

Tarmel Udimo: here's a link: http://www.gaiamind.com/Teilhard.html

Solobill Laville: back

Fefonz Quan: wb

Tarmel Udimo: hi

Solobill Laville: That is an endeavor that will likely go on for quite some time (faith and science) :)

Fefonz Quan: well seems he was a little ahead of time, quote: "The Age of Nations is past. "

Tarmel Udimo: yes very and he felt that he could reconcile these two things within himself even though he was being orded from rome to abandon his quest

Tarmel Udimo: he felt it was only by staying within the church and fighting and opening up this newly emerging life force as he saw it

Tarmel Udimo: rather than leaving and enjoying the success he was having outside the church with his writings where he was seen as a man for th future

Tarmel Udimo: this i found curious

Tarmel Udimo: didn't mean to put a halt to the proceedings :-)

Solobill Laville: hehe, just listening :)

Tarmel Udimo: (still can't see you solo)

Solobill Laville: (in a ghostly voice) "I am a figment of your imagination..."

Tarmel Udimo: must be some advanced method of text projection ;-)

Tarmel Udimo: coming down from the heavens

Solobill Laville: :)

Wol Euler: hallelujah!

Fefonz Quan: we--see--ti--too---tarmel

Wol Euler rolls on the floor and begins spe aki ngi nto ngu es.

Solobill Laville: lol

Tarmel Udimo: reconnected with the homeland eh wol?

Tarmel Udimo: :-)

Solobill Laville: a bit north of the homeland, perhaps...

Wol Euler little heart beats a bit faster at the thought of 11 am tomorrow, and I'm not even American

Tarmel Udimo: yes me tooooooooooooooooo

Tarmel Udimo: heart of the world beating faster in timid hope

Wol Euler: and relief

Tarmel Udimo: yes

Tarmel Udimo: I'll be awake all night to catch it ;-)

Wol Euler: I'll be surreptitiously watcing on the net at work.

Tarmel Udimo: hi samuel

Wol Euler: hello samuel, nice to see you again

Samuel Okelly: hello every1 :)

Fefonz Quan: hello samuel

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Samuel

Solobill Laville: Hey, Sam

Samuel Okelly: apologies for my very late arrival :(

Stim Morane: Hi Samuel

Adams Rubble: A Bush at home is worth two in the White House

Wol Euler: hehehehe

Adams Rubble: Hello Samuel

Samuel Okelly: hello adams

Samuel Okelly: is it lag or are things very slow here this evening?

Fefonz Quan: Talking about french people, meditation adn the brain, i've been on a lecture by Matthieu Ricard, the monk from "teh monk and the philosopher"

Tarmel Udimo: yes?

Wol Euler: ah yes

Fefonz Quan: and he described a reaserch he participated in about the effect of meditation on the brain

Fefonz Quan: and he showed results comparing brain states of monk vs. ordinary people

Fefonz Quan: and in them it showed that the monks states where considerably more balanced and "happY'

Fefonz Quan: accrording to some parameters of teh frontal brain lobes

Adams Rubble: I must go. bye everyone :)

Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.

Solobill Laville: bye adams

Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams

Samuel Okelly: tc ada

Tarmel Udimo: bye adams

Samuel Okelly: fef, do you know what his humantitarian work was precisely?

Stim Morane: bye adams

Fefonz Quan: and what was even more impressive to me, was that even scomparing people that didn't do meditation at all, to a group that

Fefonz Quan: did meditation for 10 weeks, the differences could be shown

Fefonz Quan: Sam, are you talking about funds he raises for schools in nepal and tibet?

Fefonz Quan: well, we just skipped nirvana

Fefonz Quan couldn't help it :)

Scathach Rhiadra: :)

Wol Euler: next stop mara

Samuel Okelly: i understanbd thats what he received his order of merit for in france

Solobill Laville: ah, didn't know that, that is impressive

Solobill Laville: I've seen him on TED and youtube, very interesting guy indeed

Tarmel Udimo: like TED TV just discovered it a few months ago

Samuel Okelly: personally i think it is refreshing to see someone who hasarticulated bith the spiritual AND the biological with equal vigour

Fefonz Quan: yes, tarmel, i did too

Samuel Okelly: sadly i feel it is becoming all too common for people to be forced in to one of two camps but never both :(

Solobill Laville: Yes, Sam, true

Samuel Okelly: personally i am strong advocate of reasoned belief (be that scientific OR spiritual)

Solobill Laville: ah...the proof is in the pudding? :)

Solobill Laville: Or, no...

Samuel Okelly: "the proof" is in "the reason", it is in "the why" :)

Tarmel Udimo: we were talking about Teilhard de Charlin earlier : ] Tarmel Udimo: here's a link: http://www.gaiamind.com/Teilhard.html

Tarmel Udimo: similar struggles

Solobill Laville: But, at least at this point, therein lies in the ultimate diff btw faith and science

Adelene Dawner is Online

Solobill Laville: If you have faith in just the "why" it seems to be easily lost, imho

Solobill Laville shrugs and smiles

Samuel Okelly: in what way is "reason" qualitiatively different for science and religion?

Solobill Laville: Perhaps it's not

Fefonz Quan: in some sense, science doesn't ask "why"

Samuel Okelly: in searching for "truth" science ask "How" andd it is religion that asks "why"

Fefonz Quan: it asks "how", meaning how can something be modeled or expplained

Solobill Laville: In a faith perspective, "why" isn't generally approached empirically

Samuel Okelly: i agree

Samuel Okelly: but is empirical knowledge all that informs the human condition?

Solobill Laville: ah!

Adelene Dawner is Offline

Solobill Laville: 99% of our daily life would no

Solobill Laville: *say

Fefonz Quan: maybe not, Samuel, but science also doesn't cover all of the human condition

Samuel Okelly: again i agree and i would posit that after honest introspection, each of us would concede to feeling a sense of there being "something else"

Samuel Okelly: of course i do not "know" this

Wol Euler nods

Tarmel Udimo: well this is the big question and why we're all sitting here in hope of discovery

Solobill Laville: "Empiricism of one"

Tarmel Udimo: :-)

Tarmel Udimo: and realising that ultimately it will always be subjective and personal

Tarmel Udimo: and unique to each of us

Solobill Laville: yes, that's the of one part

Fefonz Quan: well, we also have the sense of "i am unique" (or is it just me :),

Samuel Okelly: :)

Fefonz Quan: (tarmel stole my eords)

Solobill Laville: wb Blank

Fefonz Quan: it doesn't say it's true

Tarmel Udimo: sorry off chatting

Solobill Laville: by definition, can a galaxy be blank?

Fefonz Quan: as empty as any other thing

Solobill Laville: Isn't that a bit like wordless paragraph

Wol Euler: one whose black whole swallows all the light its stars generate, might be.

Solobill Laville: ah...

Wol Euler: trying to un-blank Blank.

Fefonz Quan: tadam

Blank Galaxy: hello

Fefonz Quan: hello Blank

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello:)

Wol Euler: hello not-so-Blank :)

Solobill Laville: OK all, good seeing you! I am off!

Solobill Laville: Hello, blank

Tarmel Udimo: hi blank

Scathach Rhiadra: bye Solo:)

Fefonz Quan: Bye Solo,

Stim Morane: Yes, I must go too. Thanks, everyone!

Wol Euler: bye solo, take care

Tarmel Udimo: bye solo

Solobill Laville: bye!

Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim

Samuel Okelly: tc every1 :)

Tarmel Udimo: bye

Fefonz Quan: bye Sam Stim

Scathach Rhiadra: bye Samuel

Solobill Laville: hmmm... can't teleport...

Solobill Laville: oh, well, up, up and away!!!

Wol Euler: ha, the SL demons are back.

Scathach Rhiadra: :)

Fefonz Quan: locked here forever Solo....

Samuel Okelly: rl phone....cheerio for now