2009.01.30 01:00 - Metawriting

Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session.

Fael was waiting at the Playgoda as I arrived.

Fael Illyar: Hi Wol :)
Wol Euler: good morning fael
Fael Illyar: Now I'm only late with my scribe thing anymore I guess ... if I can just figure out what it is that's keeping me from doing it.
Wol Euler: :)
Fael Illyar: I could force myself but I've kind of taken a policy of not just pushing things aside in my mind, unless it's very important to get something done right then.
Wol Euler: so you do whatever is at the forefront?
Fael Illyar: forefront?
Fael Illyar still not quite getting it.
Wol Euler: [1:01] Fael Illyar: I could force myself but I've kind of taken a policy of not just pushing things aside in my mind,
Wol Euler: so you _do_ get stuff done, that which is in your mind.
Fael Illyar: Yes, many things.

Tarmel joins us, and asks about Fael's birthday party yesterday.

Fael Illyar: Hi Tarmel :)
Wol Euler: hello tarmel
Wol Euler: I think I need more coffee, brb
Tarmel Udimo: hi fael
Tarmel Udimo: thanks for your invite to your party
Fael Illyar: You're welcome :)
Tarmel Udimo: I didn't mean to decline your offer of a TP address can you send again
Fael Illyar: umm... it told me you accepted it.
Wol Euler: back
Fael Illyar: or do you mean the Play as Being group notice?
Tarmel Udimo: hey wol
Fael Illyar: wb Wol :)
Wol Euler: ty
Tarmel Udimo: hummm dawn's tears isn't listed in my inventory
Fael Illyar: strange, oh well, I'll give you one, a moment
Tarmel Udimo: thanks
Tarmel Udimo: oh very nice
Fael Illyar smiles 'Thank you.'
Wol Euler: it is, it's a lovely place.
Tarmel Udimo: was it a good party
Fael Illyar: Yes :)
Wol Euler: I came very late, as soon as I escaped from the office.
Tarmel Udimo: humm I was asleep :-) wrong time zone
Wol Euler: yeah, there is that "round earth" problem still to resolve.
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: interesting title wol

Sorry Tarmel, I missed this in the heat of debate. I was wearing a group tag "I deserve happiness" which a friend had made for me, as a reminder or a kind of mantra.

Fael Illyar: Yes, can't set the time so it works for everyone
Tarmel Udimo: oh go on try...
Wol Euler: just need to make a loooooooooooooong party.
Fael Illyar: but being my birthday party, it has to fit my time zone :)
Tarmel Udimo: of course
Wol Euler: phone brb
Tarmel Udimo: it was good talking to yourself and susi the other night/day? fael
Fael Illyar: sorry?
Fael Illyar: Ah, yesterday :)
Fael Illyar: 24 hours ago?
Tarmel Udimo: time is endless for me, hours just seem to blwnd one into the other but it would be great to be able to understand better -
Tarmel Udimo: perhaps a translator?
Fael Illyar: well, hours are just something we've tried to add on to time :)
Wol Euler: but time exists outside of hours too, the sun moves in the sky
Tarmel Udimo: oh I meant susi - a translator for susi
Wol Euler: yes, I know that feeling :)
Fael Illyar: Ah, I get what you mean now :)

Understanding and translation. 

Tarmel Udimo: susi has such wonderful things to say and i would like to make sure I am really understanding
Fael Illyar: sometimes might be useful :)
Wol Euler ponders. Do we really understand anyone at all, ever?
Tarmel Udimo: hopefully yes....
Tarmel Udimo: we get close sometimes
Tarmel Udimo: with some people
Wol Euler: oh yes, sure; but even there we misunderstand often enough
Tarmel Udimo: sure which is why its importnat to be 'truthful' about one's feelings and what one is trying to say...
Fael Illyar: "understanding" someone is fine, as long as you don't take that to mean that you can decide what the other is like :)
Tarmel Udimo: and there must also be trust
Tarmel Udimo: no that would be projecting
Tarmel Udimo: we all find it difficult to get close to another or should I say allow another person to really see who you are....
Wol Euler muses. That would mean approaching everyone in every minute as though we had never seen them before
Tarmel Udimo: most of us hide all the time
Wol Euler: or as though we were amnesiacs.
Wol Euler: surely we need to remember what the other person said or did?
Tarmel Udimo: yes - is this a response to hwat fael said or what tarmel said?
Tarmel Udimo: or both :-)
Wol Euler: [1:24] Fael Illyar: "understanding" someone is fine, as long as you don't take that to mean that you can decide what the other is like :)
Wol Euler: I think we have to do that if w are to have a continuous relationship with them.
Wol Euler: I can't ask you every morning whether you prefer tea to coffee, you'd hit me.
Tarmel Udimo: that is avery tricky one that one...
Tarmel Udimo: saying it withd a smile
Tarmel Udimo: its okay to ask, its okay not to ask as long as change is allowed :-)
Wol Euler: agreed
Fael Illyar: the not "deciding" what someone is like does not mean not remembering.
Tarmel Udimo: and if throwing of pillows is done in a gentle way :-)
Fael Illyar: it means not clinging onto your ideas about the other.
Tarmel Udimo: this is tricky
Wol Euler: there is an overlap, I feel.
Tarmel Udimo: in what way?
Play as being Watch for mens will ring next in 11 minutes 50 seconds.
Wol Euler: part of the way that I know that you love me, is that you are able to infer my moods and pick things that please me

Susi joins us, but only briefly. 

Wol Euler: hello susi
Tarmel Udimo: I mean what you're syaing is true fael
Tarmel Udimo: hello susi
Fael Illyar: Hi Susi :)
Susi Alcott: hello Wol, Tarmel, Fael
Susi Alcott: sry I come this late
Tarmel Udimo: its okay, I am going to have to leave soon, but I'll be back on later
Wol Euler: as always, you are just in time Susi.
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Tarmel Udimo: just got home, hungry, roommate has fixed dinner and is saying get away from the bloody computer and get into RL :-)
Wol Euler laughs
Susi Alcott: lol
Tarmel Udimo: perahps i will see you all later
Wol Euler: bye for now, tarmel
Susi Alcott: hoping so too
Fael Illyar: See you later Tarmel :)
Tarmel Udimo: waves

I asked about something that happened in chat a few minutes before. 

Wol Euler: what is this? [1:33] Play as being Watch for mens will ring next in 11 minutes 50 seconds.
Susi Alcott: that must be my watch
Wol Euler: ah! I didn'T know that PaB had watches. (zooms in to see)
Susi Alcott: a PaB watch; present from Moon
Wol Euler: oh indeed! wow.
Susi Alcott: I'm sure you'll get the female watch from Moon if yuo like
Fael Illyar: Ah, I can give a copy of that :)
Susi Alcott: it's very nice thing
Wol Euler: oh ty!
Play as being Watch  v1.1 for woman will ring next in 4 minutes 21 seconds.
Fael Illyar: I don't have the male version though :)
Wol Euler: it counts the quarter hours?
Fael Illyar: ... well, not that I'd do much with it :)
Wol Euler: I'll have to ask Moon to make a smaller pendant version on a chain.
Susi Alcott: it rings the bell each qater of hour
Fael Illyar: it's full mod :)
Susi Alcott: he has the female version too
Wol Euler: but I'm lazy! ;-)
Wol Euler: er, sorry, I meant "I would never dream of impinging on Moon's IP rights as creator of this work of art"
Fael Illyar grins.
Fael Illyar: Moon doesn't leave things full mod by accident that much :)
Wol Euler: true, and it is appreciated. Most of us have to modify things taht we wear (prim skirts are the obvious and hated example)

The quarter-hour arrives and our watches chime.

Wol Euler: ah :)
Fael Illyar: new sound ^^
Susi Alcott: so sorry
Susi Alcott: must go again
Wol Euler: bye susi, take care.
Fael Illyar: See you later Susi :)
Susi Alcott: _/!\_

We return to the scribe project. 

Wol Euler: so, as we were saying. What were we saying?
Fael Illyar: I was pondering about what is preventing me from doing the scribe thing.
Wol Euler: a good question.
Fael Illyar: (Pema sent me an email asking me about it, wondering if I don't like deadlines)
Wol Euler: another good qustion.
Wol Euler: how does the question "feel", is that the reason?
Fael Illyar: I have had problems with deadlines in the past. I don't set them for myself because that's usually been the one way to make sure I don't get it done.
Wol Euler: ah!
Wol Euler: we spoke some time ago about your dislike of people giving you advice, even if the advice is to do something that you would have done anyway. Is that perhaps related?
Fael Illyar: I thought I'd gotten rid of that deadline thing but perhaps not.
Fael Illyar: might be I just hid it somehow.
Wol Euler nods
Fael Illyar: Ah, no, I didn't dislike people giving me advice. Only if the advice was about something I believe I already know... well, perhaps still.
Fael Illyar: Although, I still try not to reject it outright. Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about already knowing :)
Wol Euler: :)
Fael Illyar: but I get the feeling deadlines aren't directly related.
Wol Euler: may I suggest a possibility: perhaps it's not about deadlines at all but rather about external commitments? Do you feel that you were pressured to take on the scribe role and wish that you could escape it?
Fael Illyar: Ah, no, not at all.
Wol Euler: because that is my way of dealing with things I wish I didn't have to do :)
Fael Illyar: I took it on because I felt like I want to do it.
Fael Illyar: even with my usual reluctance of taking such commitments.
Wol Euler: does it still feel that way?
Fael Illyar: somehow, once I was late with it, it changed.
Wol Euler: aaaaah
Wol Euler: interesting!
Wol Euler: so if you weren't late, you wouldn't be late?
Fael Illyar: Kind of :)
Wol Euler: (the Terminator effect :-)
Fael Illyar: I still haven't solved that one it appears.
Fael Illyar: just weakened it to a point that I can get impotant things done.
Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
Wol Euler: so the question would now be about "important", it seems :)
Fael Illyar: :)
Fael Illyar: well. mostly it doesn't really make sense that having missed a deadline makes me less willing to do it where I might do it were it not for the deadline
Wol Euler: true :)
Wol Euler: which does suggest that the deadline itself is hte difficulty
Wol Euler: the pressure that it presents, the restriction it implies?
Fael Illyar: Yes, I have a general dislike of restrictions... although less so if I don't see it as arbitrary.
Wol Euler ponders. How to move at right angles to that dilemma?
Fael Illyar: that's what I'm pondering about.
Wol Euler: mmhmm

Writing at right angles. 

Wol Euler: so write about not writing.
Wol Euler: tell us why you can't write a scribe note. That would be interseting too
Fael Illyar: naturally :)
Fael Illyar: but that'll take some time to work out.
Wol Euler: no, just do it.
Wol Euler: right now, today.
Wol Euler: let it be rough and scrappy, bullet points even.
Wol Euler: (just please no powerpoint! shudders)
Fael Illyar: :P
Wol Euler: write a letter, if that is easier, and then post it
Wol Euler: "Dear PaB, I am struggling ..."
Wol Euler: set the kitchen timer for 59 minutes and post whatever you have.
Fael Illyar: Ah, anything I can say?
Wol Euler: what we said here could be a start.
Wol Euler: "Dear PaB, I am struggling to write this piece. I don't know why, I did want to when I signed up for it. But somehow I am not able to write it - yet."
Wol Euler: and so on.
Wol Euler: just like that, let it flow. Tell it as it is, no filtering.
Wol Euler: a stream
Wol Euler: then post the stream
Fael Illyar: oh, that's another thing I still have problems with. Not filtering.
Wol Euler: well, then do filter if that is easier :)
Wol Euler: but the idea would be to do this right now, in the flow, not making it into A Task.
Wol Euler: what I do when I get stuck on writing a proposal, is that I write ABOUT writing a proposal
Wol Euler: that gets me into it, and often more than half of what I write is diretyl useable in the proposal when I do get down to it
Fael Illyar: Ah, metawriting :)
Wol Euler: exactly!
Wol Euler: because it has no rules, because it is not "The Finished Product", it is much easier to write
Fael Illyar: oh right, another thing that might be relevant is that I still have reluctance towards writing essays.
Fael Illyar used to hate them at school.
Wol Euler laughs and thwaps you with a cushion.
Wol Euler: Fael, I shall have to move on, I have another commitment in SL and my RL is waiting too. I'll be back sometime this afternoon RL time, we can talk about your metawriting then if you wish.
Wol Euler: personally I think a metawriting piece would be a good contribution, in keeping with the spirit of PaB.
Fael Illyar: Allright, see you later Wol :)
Wol Euler: just do it quickly, without planning or filtering or considering
Wol Euler: remember: it's not the writing.
Wol Euler: it's just about the writing :)
Fael Illyar: it's the thinking, yes
Wol Euler smiles and nods. Go for it!
Wol Euler: bye for now, take care.
Fael Illyar: you too :)