2009.01.05 07:00 - PaB for 2009 and finding self.

Becka Finesmith was the guardian. The comments are hers.

We started by examining some of the issues of the day.

Becka Finesmith: Hi Doug
doug Sosa: morning.
Becka Finesmith: How are you today?
doug Sosa: well,it is too early to know :)
doug Sosa: yourself?
Becka Finesmith: I'm great thanks. but it is a little later in the day here
doug Sosa: ihad to be up at 5 for a piece of work,so i am really awake,just not in normalstate.
Becka Finesmith: I think that's a good thing :)
doug Sosa: yes.good refreame. I agree.
doug Sosa: when i wake, the question is where am i.
Becka Finesmith: Has it been quiet here over Christmas? I haven't been able to come in much :(
doug Sosa: thatis, in the house, in the country, in the world, in the economy, in the politics..
Becka Finesmith: Wow! Lot's of questions to ask yourself so early in the day
doug Sosa: quiet. i think so, but i too have been a rare participant.
doug Sosa: in the pab spirit,as i wake,what is waatching me?
doug Sosa: is obama flying in to an impossible situation re israel and the economy?
Becka Finesmith: oh. That's a tough question
doug Sosa: right,but a necessary one.It is rel for me.
Becka Finesmith: He will have little control over Isreal IMHO
Becka Finesmith: as for the economy, he has a few years to sort that out
doug Sosa: he could insist on a decent deal for palestine or no money.period.
doug Sosa: but the us attacks on him would be intense.
Becka Finesmith: But he is a converted Muslim. Is Isreal going to listen to him?
doug Sosa: on the economy,i am not sure. read krugman this morning.
doug Sosa: that'sstrange,where do you get that he is a converted muslim?
Becka Finesmith: I thought I read that his family has a Muslim background. Which can only be a good thing for America
Becka Finesmith: but of course, Isrealis won't like that
doug Sosa: His father wasmuslim,he neverlived with his father. His mother american fromkansas.
Becka Finesmith: Ahh - OK
doug Sosa: Important.
doug Sosa: he gen
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Becka and Doug!
Becka Finesmith: well. I think he should play up his Muslim "roots"
Becka Finesmith: Hey Gen
doug Sosa: i think he can claimawareness. gen,we are talking about the world we wake up to, what is real.
genesis Zhangsun: k. ty :)
doug Sosa: ?
Becka Finesmith: Yes. Obama can only be good for the US international relations
Becka Finesmith: Lets face it, he can't do any worse then Bush
Becka Finesmith: ;)
doug Sosa: So is bush making thins difficult by encouraging the Israelis..? If so what should obama do,say,about the ME now without being acused of interference.
Becka Finesmith: I don't think he can until after the 20th
Becka Finesmith: You can't have 2 presidents
doug Sosa: for me,here in PaB,these quetions lead to the question, what is real? Or is there a better question?
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Adams!
Becka Finesmith: HI Adams
doug Sosa: hi ad
Adams Dubrovna: Hello gen, Doug and becka :)
Becka Finesmith: So is inaction an option?
doug Sosa: yes,but much of the world is turning sour as he is silent on palestine.
Becka Finesmith: I think we in the UK understand why he can't yet interfere
Becka Finesmith: and if he did, it would just bring him a load of grief
Becka Finesmith: he could otherwise avoid
doug Sosa: and if he doesn't?
Becka Finesmith: He doesn't have too long before he can respond officially
Becka Finesmith: Isreal are a law unto themselves anyway I'm afriad
doug Sosa: bywhich point israel may have taken the enie Gaza.
doug Sosa: enie=entire
Becka Finesmith: they will anyway even if Obama intervenes They are hell bent on doing that
Becka Finesmith: under the banner of national security
Becka Finesmith: you can get away with anything
doug Sosa: the alestinians can make the same argumnet.there is a symmtry we failto acknowledge.
Becka Finesmith: But the Palestinians don't have the support of the US or UK
Becka Finesmith: unlike Isreal
doug Sosa: but that support costs us much of the rest of the world, and is not a good position to be in.
doug Sosa: if we PaB the ME..
Becka Finesmith: I agree
genesis Zhangsun: terrible situation....
Becka Finesmith: I think all we can say is the solution isn't simnple
Becka Finesmith: Yes Gen.

But what does this mean for us practicing PaB and how PaB practice changes over christmas.

Adams Dubrovna: PaB the ME? What does that mean?
doug Sosa: hoping you would ask.
doug Sosa: I think it eans
doug Sosa: a more open seaching approach, looking for other ways of seeing it, letting ourselves be awaer of the mix of forces, avoid ideology.
Becka Finesmith: If you could get the factions to see it that way, there certainly would be no conflict
Becka Finesmith: Changing the topic a little.....
doug Sosa: :)
Becka Finesmith: How has everyone found the 9 seconds over christmas?
Becka Finesmith: I have been struggling big time
doug Sosa: i kept looking for it, rarely found it. :)
Becka Finesmith: indeed
genesis Zhangsun: holidays are a very destabilizing time for me ;)
Adams Dubrovna: I have found it renewing
Becka Finesmith: Is that just in terms of PaB or other aspects Gen? Don't answer if that's too personal
doug Sosa: actually i used the 9 sec a lot. lots of guess, three dogsfrom three different families, kids.it was, well,9 sec helpedkeepthe tension down and he fun up,
genesis Zhangsun: In all respects I suppose....I tend to take in other people's energy and in general people are in a frenzy at this time
doug Sosa: guess=guests
genesis Zhangsun: all the shopping, eating, drinking
Adams Dubrovna: I had a very quiet, personal time
genesis Zhangsun: how was that Adams?
Becka Finesmith: Yes. I actually started to get stressed because the distractions meant I couldn't practice
Adams Dubrovna: Part of it was due to illness, a nasty bug that struck us all
doug Sosa: i love the 9 sec in the middle of distractions.
Adams Dubrovna: gave me lots of uninterrupted time
genesis Zhangsun: well now that is certainly finding opportunity in "crisis"
Adams Dubrovna: The fall semester had taken a bit of a toll on me and I had found myself a bit confused
genesis Zhangsun: Interesting though Becka about the stress of not doing practice
Adams Dubrovna: and seemingly I had lost touch with things I found over the summer
Becka Finesmith: yes. It's like the stress of not being able to make many sessison.
Becka Finesmith: sessions
Becka Finesmith: Have you found them again Adams?
Adams Dubrovna: pema worked with me by commenting on my blog for 9 days
Adams Dubrovna: I found something a bit different
genesis Zhangsun: I read about this!
genesis Zhangsun: What did you find?
Becka Finesmith: I will have to read your blog but it sounds like we all experienced upheavel
Becka Finesmith: when really nothing had changed
Adams Dubrovna: First I learned a bit about my conflicting identitites
Becka Finesmith: Will/can you expand on that?
Adams Dubrovna: but more importantly I am learning that in dropping them I am finding I can connect for readily with God/Being
Becka Finesmith: Do you see them as the same thing?
Adams Dubrovna: Becka, I have two conflicting voices speaking to me
Adams Dubrovna: They go back a long way
Adams Dubrovna: I hvae spent some months exploring them
Becka Finesmith: OK. THank you Adams
Becka Finesmith: for sharing
genesis Zhangsun: Could you refer me to the first chat log by any chance Adams where you and Pema talked before embarking on your nine day exploration?
Adams Dubrovna: We had a discussion out of session Gen, but I summed it up. Let me look for the sujmmary
Adams Dubrovna: http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/total-openness-of-appearance-197/#comments
Adams Dubrovna: That was the first day of the experiment for me
Adams Dubrovna: Much of this is very personal
Becka Finesmith: very interesting
Becka Finesmith: and such good advice
Becka Finesmith: are you ok with this going into the chatlog Adams?
genesis Zhangsun: How so Becka...do you find it good advice for you too?
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, I am used to it by now Becka :)
Adams Dubrovna: Thanks for asking
Becka Finesmith: yes Gen. Pemas suggestion about looking at the world with Alien eyes is quite remarkable and really it should be obvious
Becka Finesmith: but putting aside what we know is harder then I would at first believe
Adams Dubrovna: yes it is
Becka Finesmith: If I were honest, the practice itself has not helped me much over Christmas but the philosophy has
genesis Zhangsun: How so Becka?
doug Sosa: if we put aside the knowing mind, what we find,or a least i do,is more feeling,the knowing heart. if o put that aside... the universe goes dark.
Becka Finesmith: I had been in depression for many many months before Christmas. The 9 seconds helped to pull me out of it. Looking at things in a new way
doug Sosa: 0=i
Becka Finesmith: but now I am on the other side
Becka Finesmith: but now I am on the other side
Becka Finesmith: of depression, doing the 9 seconds (or not being able to do it) is depressing me
Adams Dubrovna: It is good you are beyond it becka. I have found the nine-seconds does different things at different times.
Becka Finesmith: It's like I have another burden that is just replaced the one I had before
Adams Dubrovna trying to understand what Doug said
genesis Zhangsun: That is really interesting Becka!
Becka Finesmith: But I don't want to see it that way
doug Sosa: how can you not do it? it is always there to just do. no preparation, just let it be part of the flow of circumstances.
Adams Dubrovna: I think I can relate to that becka
Adams Dubrovna: One of the things Pema said before we started was that it was good that things fell apart for me in the fall because it showed that what I had found was not strong enough
genesis Zhangsun: funny how we can turn spiritual practice into just another thing to pull us into a samsaric cycle (as Buddhist say but not necessarily the only way to say it)
Becka Finesmith: I'm constantly aware of it Doug. I think that's the burden. If I could shake my awareness then it would become just a part of me
Becka Finesmith: Yes Gen. That's exactly what I thought
doug Sosa: can you describe a momnet where you are aware of it, and it is a buden?
genesis Zhangsun: fascinating that awareness here is working against you
Becka Finesmith: If you want to free yourself, you have to have no mind ofr PaB
genesis Zhangsun: I experience this quite often myself
Adams Dubrovna: In my case it was a matter of looking deeper
doug Sosa: i think pab is more no concepts,no asumptions than it is no mind.
genesis Zhangsun: yes Adams tell us about that
genesis Zhangsun: deeper than awareness?
Adams Dubrovna: Deeper than the awareness of my identities in which I was still living
doug Sosa: mind is good,conepts cloud it.
Becka Finesmith: So do your identitied melt away?
genesis Zhangsun: Ah yes that is an interesting take and somehow makes sense because our awareness as INDIVIDUALS is limited but awareness as BEING is not?
Adams Dubrovna: No not quite, becka, these go deep. It is a mattter of recongizing them
Adams Dubrovna: then being able to drop them
Adams Dubrovna: for a time
Adams Dubrovna: yess gen
genesis Zhangsun: did you consciously make the decision to drop them for only a time
genesis Zhangsun: a sort of like "it wouldn't hurt to drop this for awhile..."
genesis Zhangsun: to get yourself to do it?
Adams Dubrovna: Pema made the suggestion that I can enjoy them but must drop them to listen to God
Adams Dubrovna: I have been listening as hard as I am able to
Adams Dubrovna: :)
genesis Zhangsun: listenening as your identities which has limitations to what they can hear
Adams Dubrovna: Listening without my identities
Becka Finesmith: How does that listening manifest itself? Is it a strong desire to see beyond the identities or is it realyl efffortless?
genesis Zhangsun: right this is what you are doing now...and what do you hear?
Adams Dubrovna: Incredible things gen
Adams Dubrovna: I have recorded some of them
Adams Dubrovna: Becka, it is sort of like dreaming while i am awake
Adams Dubrovna: a kalidescope of images
Becka Finesmith: That's very interesting. When I do longer term meditations, that happens to me
Adams Dubrovna: I know this is only the start for me'
Becka Finesmith: I literally see colours rather then shapes and objects
genesis Zhangsun: do you see the rest of the "path" ahead?
Adams Dubrovna: I hvae no diea of what is to come gen :)
Adams Dubrovna: idea
genesis Zhangsun: do you have a newfound sense of confidence?
doug Sosa: silently need to say bye.
Adams Dubrovna: There is a comfort that comes when one has dropped ones selves
genesis Zhangsun: bye doug!
Adams Dubrovna: bye Doug
Becka Finesmith: bye doug
Adams Dubrovna: All the burdens and struggles sem to lift away
genesis Zhangsun: sounds nice!
Adams Dubrovna: It just feels right
genesis Zhangsun: do you feel ecstatic Adams?
Adams Dubrovna: No, not ecstatic, just calm when it happens
genesis Zhangsun: when "it" happens?
Adams Dubrovna: Then my selves return to play and all is chaotic again :)
genesis Zhangsun: could you describe "it" a bit more?
genesis Zhangsun: do you see bright colours as Becka described...do your perceptions change?
Adams Dubrovna: I have some general feelings and some specific examples which are on the last two days of my blog. Those don;t sound all that nice but they are something different for me
Adams Dubrovna: The feelings are of a clam, a peacefulness
Adams Dubrovna: calm
genesis Zhangsun: ok will check them out :)
Adams Dubrovna: That it seems to me is the important part
Adams Dubrovna: The images are a sign I have more to explore, that there may be things beyond my known identities and selves which I need to learn more about
Adams Dubrovna: There are some hints that they are deep
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Becka Finesmith: Adams - Have you always had these identities?
genesis Zhangsun: well I must be off nice to see you Becka and Adams and thank you so much for sharing
Becka Finesmith: Bye Gen - Nice to see you too
Adams Dubrovna: bye gen. Always good to see you :)
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Adams Dubrovna: Becka, they go way back into childhood. I have learned a bit about them the past week and a half
Becka Finesmith: ok - I just wondered how deep rooted they where
Adams Dubrovna: In a way they reflect conflicting things I was taught
Adams Dubrovna: One is quite a rebel
Adams Dubrovna: The other is more rigid
Becka Finesmith: Do they seriously affect you day to day?
Adams Dubrovna: They both speak to me and I think they don;t like each other all that much
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Adams Dubrovna: I have had to learn to appreciate them both for what they are
Becka Finesmith: that's interesting
Becka Finesmith: I can see why that would be a conflict.
Becka Finesmith: The way you talk about it suggests there is a thrid person too
Becka Finesmith: thrid = third
Becka Finesmith: which is your true self
Adams Dubrovna: Well somewhere there is the physical person and these identities are something I picked up although very early in life
Becka Finesmith: very very interesting
Adams Dubrovna: This past week I learned we can be more than one person; that are actions are not always consistent
Adams Dubrovna: depending upon who of us is reacting
Adams Dubrovna: We can be very warm and kind or cold and deceiving
Adams Dubrovna: or cruel
Becka Finesmith: But these seems to have much more control over your thoughts then just an internal cheques and balances mechanism that we all have?
Adams Dubrovna: I don't know.they represent my "values" I think
Becka Finesmith: OK. Well I think you are amazing for being able to identify with them in the way you do :)
Adams Dubrovna: I have had some fun with them the past few months in PaB
Becka Finesmith: long may it continue :)