2009.01.02 01:00 – Bush tucker, cobber

Gaya filled in for Wol and comments are hers. Pema arrives soon after.

Pema Pera: Hi Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pema :)
Pema Pera: Happy New Year
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you. Happy New Year
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you today?
Pema Pera: Fine! Enjoying the quiet time of year
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pema Pera: Winter has its own qualities of rest and reflection
Pema Pera: And you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Well thank you. It has been bitterly cold here
Pema Pera: in London?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes for a few days
Pema Pera: that's unusual
Gaya Ethaniel: I like it that way, clear crisp cold days

Tarmel joins us and shares her family stories.

Pema Pera: Hi Tarmel!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)
Tarmel Udimo: hi there
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?
Tarmel Udimo: I'm good
Tarmel Udimo: I just had a visit from my step kids
Pema Pera: did you have a good time?
Tarmel Udimo: yes it was lovely - we exchanged christmas presents and had a late lunch
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Tarmel Udimo: they are half indigneous
Tarmel Udimo: how about both of you - how are you?
Gaya Ethaniel: Well thank you
Pema Pera: I am completely indigineous (in Holland, that is)
Pema Pera: and I'm fine too :)
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Tarmel Udimo: thanks gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Same if in Korea :) Thanks Tarmel
Pema Pera: I got doubly exported, first to the US then from there to Japan -- but by my own choice
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pema Pera: the story of idiginous peoples is really horrific
Pema Pera: anywhere, in the US, in Japan, in Australia
Pema Pera: Indians, Ainu, etc
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Pema Pera: Tibetans too
Tarmel Udimo: and yet there is a strength there
Tarmel Udimo: my kids are so grounded and somehow manage to live in both worlds
Pema Pera: that's quite an accomplishment!
Tarmel Udimo: they come from a very traditional part of australia
Tarmel Udimo: so still have their language and their culture
Tarmel Udimo: their dad is english and they are proud of that too
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Tarmel Udimo: I often joke with their dad that in this lifetime he had the kids - I have
Tarmel Udimo: only known them for about 5 years
Pema Pera: miraculous birth for you! :-)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Tarmel Udimo: yes absolutely
Pema Pera: as for their culture, how do you live that, how do they relate to that?
Tarmel Udimo: well when they go 'home' for holidays they go back to a small remote community
Tarmel Udimo: that still preserve the traditional ways
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... wow
Tarmel Udimo: humm its been fascinating and of course they have been horrible teenagers too
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: those traditional ways, how do they deal with those -- does it involve particular training?
Pema Pera: or more a general life style?
Gaya Ethaniel: I heard such life style is dying out because less young people are willing to live in that ways
Tarmel Udimo: both - they boy has been initiated
Tarmel Udimo: and they both know all the dances
Tarmel Udimo: they hunt and fish and know bush tucker and how to live in what we call 'the bush'
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Tarmel Udimo: they are quite unique
Gaya Ethaniel: Must be :)
Pema Pera: it must be great to follow them growing up, and finding ways to assimilate all that

jayden joins us.

Pema Pera: Hi Jayden
Pema Pera: feel free to join us here!
jayden Nayar: hi
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello jayden
Tarmel Udimo: yes espacially since I don't have kids of my own
Pema Pera: Jayden, have you been here before?
Gaya Ethaniel: Have they gone back now?
jayden Nayar: not at all. actually i am a newbie to the whole 2nd life
Pema Pera: welcome to our group!
Pema Pera: and welcome to Second Life
Pema Pera: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
jayden Nayar: thanks. would love to join in.
Pema Pera: Thanks!
Pema Pera: Is there anything in particular that you are looking for in Second Life?
jayden Nayar: Actually just wondering why half my users at work spend time here . so what better way to find out ..
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pema Pera: yeah, doing is better than speculating :)
jayden Nayar: Sure is. And I actually think ideas like this will become the future of commerce etc. why not hold a meeting in second life 8-)
Pema Pera: yes, I do it all the time with my colleagues, fellow astronomers
Pema Pera: we started a kind of astronomy department in April, and it is doing quite well
Pema Pera: Especially interesting are the interactions with many amateur astronomers who often are professionals in their own right of course, computer scientists for example
Pema Pera: leading to interesting interdisciplinary collaborations
jayden Nayar: It is actually very relaxing just sitting here. Like an out of body experience ..
Pema Pera: http://www.mica-vw.org/ is the astro organization's web site
Pema Pera: hehe, sure is!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Tarmel Udimo: in fact I wonder what will become of us all?
Pema Pera: and amazing to meet friends from far away: I'm in Japan now, Gaya in Europe, Tarmel in Australia
Pema Pera wondering about Tarmel's wondering
Tarmel Udimo: hummm
jayden Nayar: I am in Australia too..
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

Yes G’day :) Now Tarmel’s wondering about her wondering…

Tarmel Udimo: g'day mate! :-)
Pema Pera: :)
Tarmel Udimo: where are you?
jayden Nayar: melb.
Tarmel Udimo: okay fashion city....
Tarmel Udimo: I'm in sydney
jayden Nayar: unfortunately 8-( I like about 5 mins from chadstone ... which is the most useless shpping center for me ...
jayden Nayar: moved from sydney about 7 yrs ago.. used to like around hurstville
Gaya Ethaniel: Do you publish logs from MICA public disucssions somewhere?
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Tarmel Udimo: wondering about Tarmel's wondering - well
Pema Pera: not normally no, Gaya
Pema Pera: many of the discussions are in voice
Tarmel Udimo: how far will SL go?
Pema Pera: ah!
Pema Pera: well . . . .
Tarmel Udimo: and what will happen to us as we become closer and closer to our avatars
Tarmel Udimo: laughing
Pema Pera: I've been wondering about having a third life in here; all of us avatars sitting in our little houses in second life behind their computers, steering their once-removed avatars somewhere else . . .
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Tarmel Udimo: I'm looking forward to the day when one just plugs the brain in
Pema Pera: that may not be enough . . .
Tarmel Udimo: okay?
Pema Pera: but I get the idea :-)
Pema Pera: rest of the body may be needed too, I mean
Tarmel Udimo: in what way?
Pema Pera: oh, our consciousness may reside in more than just the brain
Pema Pera: insofar as it resides anywhere at all
Tarmel Udimo: agreed
jayden Nayar: Would certainly make my life easier just to plug people in 8-) I could also plug my son in and give him a download of knowledge... that would be alright!
Tarmel Udimo: yep
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: So you have people working for you who spend a lot of time in SL, Jayden?
Gaya Ethaniel shudders at the thought. I'll be dead before such time thank goodness
Pema Pera: don't count on it, Gaya . . .

I put that scary thought behind quickly and we move onto SL.

Tarmel Udimo: what about you gaya are you a computer mad person?
Pema Pera: as opposed to just plain mad ?
jayden Nayar: This and facebook... My user community would be what you call knowledge workers and they use these tools all the time. How the world changed though .. I am 36 and I can remember using bullitin boards back when i was 12 or 13
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not really... just infected by a geek [my husband]
Tarmel Udimo: hahaha
jayden Nayar: nothing wrong with being a geek .. we built the world 8-)
Gaya Ethaniel: He wants to use SL more via MICA but doesn't get home early enough to make the meetings
Gaya Ethaniel sighs... here we go
Pema Pera: time differences are a real problem indeed
Tarmel Udimo: 8-)
Pema Pera: among my colleagues more than half of the people still haven't even heard of SL . . . .
Pema Pera: even the younger ones
Tarmel Udimo: knowledge workers?
Pema Pera: rather odd
Tarmel Udimo: yes that is?
Pema Pera: odd -> younger ones (not knowledge workers, though many of them are odd too :)
jayden Nayar: ok .. knowledge workers = nice way of saying public servants 8-)
Tarmel Udimo: or like some of my freinds they know but would rather watch grass grow
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh
Pema Pera: not so different from rezzing, Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: okay...
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm a bit surprised by that... I saw Michiko Kaku talking about SL a couple of times on TV already
Pema Pera: he's not a "normal" colleague :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles. ah I see

Then about FOI and PaB/Kira

jayden Nayar: with all this though what we are struggling with in the government is the FOI legislation...
Tarmel Udimo: FOI ?
jayden Nayar: given all public records must be kept etc.. how can we turn a SL conversation and/or meeting into a public record
Pema Pera: Fostering Odd Interests?
jayden Nayar: FOI sorry - freedom of information act
Tarmel Udimo: ahh yes
Pema Pera: ah, that is what we are doing here, exactly, Jay
jayden Nayar: basically u can request information about anything.... u could probably even request to see what is on my c: drive at work ...
Pema Pera: did you catch that web site I flashed by? http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Pema Pera: we have recorded more than a thousand sessions this being one of them :-)
Tarmel Udimo: but that is a good point.. who do they belong to?
Tarmel Udimo: the sessions?
Pema Pera: belong to the world, I guess :-)
Tarmel Udimo: do they?
Pema Pera: they are public
Pema Pera: our umbrella organization is the Kira Institute
Tarmel Udimo: yes but they still 'belong' to the kira institute
Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/
Pema Pera: I guess in that sense, but in practice we are a kind of open source group
Pema Pera: fully democratic
Pema Pera: a group of peers
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Tarmel Udimo: okay I understand that but it does rise and issue - what if
Tarmel Udimo: eg... you end up being really
Tarmel Udimo: famous pema and 50 yeras aftre your death someone decides that these words should be controled
Pema Pera: good luck controling content on the internet :)
Tarmel Udimo: would kira have any recourse
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Pema Pera: what kind of recourse?
Tarmel Udimo: well words can be used ideas can be used
Gaya Ethaniel: Would you care Pema?
Pema Pera: I hope our words and ideas will be used!
Pema Pera: and I hope different people will do so in different ways
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pema Pera: I see no way to exert control, nor would I want to
Tarmel Udimo: I am play devils advocate here
Pema Pera: I understand, and they are valid questions
Pema Pera: wikipedia is a similar example
Pema Pera: completely open
Pema Pera: if you would have proposed the idea of wikipedia ten years ago, you would have heard a hundred reasons why it could not be done :-)
jayden Nayar: it's quite a change for the older people at work to understand that the younger grads coming through are used to open and transparent collaboration ... a strange idea for some of our directors.
Tarmel Udimo: interesting
Pema Pera: yes, I can see that
Pema Pera: same in my field, but uneven, even among the youngsters, since tenure structure is determined by the old powers that be . . . .
Pema Pera: (of astrophysics)

We begin to say goodbyes.

Pema Pera: sorry, I have to go to dinner now here (7 pm in Japan)
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your evening Pema
Tarmel Udimo: okay see you
Tarmel Udimo: have fun
jayden Nayar: have a good night
Pema Pera: Thanks Gaya, Tarmel, good meeting you, Jayden
Pema Pera: we get together here four times a day
Pema Pera: 1 pm 7 pm 1 am 7 am Second Life Time
Pema Pera: (it's 1:48 am now; see upper right part of your screen)
Pema Pera: bye for now!
Gaya Ethaniel: I must get the day started also. Could you send me the rest of the log Tarmel?
Tarmel Udimo: sure
Pema Pera: thanks, Gaya!