2009.01.24 19:00 - On Buddhism and Bushism

I, Pema, was the guardian that evening. It was the first in our four weekly guardian meetings, centered around the weekend, at Sat 7 pm, Sun 1 pm, Mon 7 am, Tue 1 am.

Pema Pera: Hi Solo!
Solobill Laville: Hello, Pema!
Pema Pera: How are you?
Solobill Laville: Well, thanks, family has the flu though....how are you?
Pema Pera: oh, I'm fine!
Solobill Laville: Excellent! Are you still in Japan?
Pema Pera: Funny, I see your text balloon but not your avatar . . .
Pema Pera: Yup, still in Kyoto
Pema Pera: ah, zooming in did the trick
Pema Pera: there you are!
Solobill Laville: Yes, it has been slow in SL lately...
Pema Pera: tell me about it!
Solobill Laville: How much longer in Kyoto?
Pema Pera: I had set up a major demonstration in Tokyo, a week ago . . . .
Pema Pera: for the first hour, nobody could get into SL
Solobill Laville: Oops
Pema Pera: not a great advertisement for SL . . . . .
Solobill Laville: hehe, amazing how the timing can work on things like that
Pema Pera: I'll be flying back to the US in a week
Pema Pera: well, last weekend was rough going for most of the weekend
Solobill Laville: In terms of your demo you mean?
Pema Pera: no, the whole weekend people had trouble logging in
Pema Pera: several PaB sessions seemed to be affected too
Solobill Laville: Right, I recall

I brought up some news item I had read in one of the Zen Retreat announcements.

Pema Pera: I saw in a recent announcement that you are leading sessions related to sutras?
Pema Pera: in the tea hut of Zen Retreat?
Solobill Laville: Yes, it was an actual discussion on Sutras for about 4 months...
Solobill Laville: But I changed it to an open dialog, which interestingly
Solobill Laville: saw an increase in attendance by about 10-fold :)
Solobill Laville: So, now just a discussion group on Buddha babble
Pema Pera: ah it was "sutras" that scared people away :-)
Solobill Laville: Yup :)
Pema Pera: and "open" that attracted people?
Pema Pera: which tea hut is this, the one that we started PaB in?
Solobill Laville: hehe, yes, Dakini was happy to see it used :)
Pema Pera: I'm happy too!
Pema Pera: I sometimes drop by; happy memories
Pema Pera: when are your sessions?
Solobill Laville: Wednesday nights, 6:30 PM SLT
Pema Pera taking out his calendar . . .
Solobill Laville: In a way it is similar to some old PaB talks...ones that were very Buddhist focused
Solobill Laville: Love to see you there!
Solobill Laville: This last Wednesday we had a nice talk about the absense of "Boddhicitta" in many Zen writings
Pema Pera: ah yes, that is all implied :)
Pema Pera: very strongly so, but not described
Solobill Laville: Being an open discussion, it is interesting to see who beings questions and the context
Pema Pera: A deeply loving mother may never use the words "I love you" to address a child . . . .
Solobill Laville: Good example
Pema Pera: yes, the openness is fascinating in SL
Pema Pera: and very stimulating
Pema Pera: also teaches you to go with the flow, to accept and yet not drown in the flow :-)
Pema Pera: dance with it rather
Solobill Laville: :) and yet that is a lesson that not all learn so easily sometimes
Pema Pera: Hi Calista!
Pema Pera: Come join us if you like
Calista Huntress: Hi Pema
Solobill Laville: Heya, Calista :)

Calista walked up, and sat down with us.

Pema Pera: Hi Calista!
Calista Huntress: Hi =)
Pema Pera: Have you been here before?
Pema Pera: Yes, Solo, it is a challenging lesson to learn, but a very valuable one
Calista Huntress: Just once, but not sue why
Calista Huntress: *sure
Solobill Laville: And very rewarding, to your point
Pema Pera: to see directly rather than to rely on rules or reasoning
Pema Pera: Ah, Calista, just to make sure: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
Calista Huntress: nope
Pema Pera: thank you!
Pema Pera: we are very informal, were just talking about that
Pema Pera: if there is anything you'd like to talk about, just bring it up, comments, questions, whatever :-)
Solobill Laville: Interestingly, a virtual world makes a wonderful place to chat about the nature of what is real...
Calista Huntress: Nice, I've been exploring buddhism for a long time, but it's a very hard philosophy to maintain I find
Pema Pera: yes, the way it forces you to step back may make it easier to see what is essential, Solo
Solobill Laville: (to attempt to knit these two threads together)
Pema Pera: The practice may not be that hard, Calista
Pema Pera: and not that easy either . . . .
Pema Pera: . . . . it is something outside easy and hard
Pema Pera: and once you figure out how to drop the easy-hard tension, then there is no effort required :)
Calista Huntress: I think living in the Western world often takes me away from my center
Solobill Laville: ahhh...why do you suppose that is, Calista?

Enter Pila, followed soon thereafter by Stim.

Pema Pera: Hi there Pila!
Solobill Laville: Heya, Pila
Pila Mulligan: greetings
Calista Huntress: b/c the social and economic forces are based on the material - and I have a hard time living in that world when it all seems to be so superficial
Calista Huntress: yet, I have to play the game in order to succeed by those standarsd
Solobill Laville is thinking about Calista's comments
Pema Pera: Hi there, Stim!
Pila Mulligan: I'm visiting SL for the first time from my new house now :) -- pardon for breaking the line of thought -- just for the record :)
Pema Pera: new house in RL or SL?
Pila Mulligan: hi Stim
Solobill Laville: As a Western Buddhist myself, a primary aspect of my practice is integration into my daily life
Pila Mulligan: RL new house :)
Stim Morane: Hi all
Pema Pera: :)
Solobill Laville: Congrats, Pila!
Pila Mulligan: thanks :)
Pema Pera: yeah, glad to hear you could move in!
Solobill Laville: Hi, Stim :)
Solobill Laville: Better connection, Pila?
Pila Mulligan: no longer living in a shipping container :0
Solobill Laville: hehe
Pila Mulligan: pretty mush the same, unfortunately -- slow
Calista Huntress: Integration is very hard when so diametrically opposed are the values
Pema Pera: yes, it's perhaps the greatest challenge . . .
Pila Mulligan: Calista, you were talking about integration with social demands?
Calista Huntress: I suppose
Solobill Laville: I brought up integration
Pila Mulligan: in what context?

As if she had heard our earlier conversation, Dakini dropped by.

Pema Pera: Hi Dakini, so good to see you back again!
Pila Mulligan: hi Dakini
Solobill Laville: It started with this: [19:20] Calista Huntress: I think living in the Western world often takes me away from my center
Pema Pera: we were just talking about your tea hut
Solobill Laville: Heya, Dakini :)
Pema Pera: which Solo is now using for his no-sutras sutras meeting :)
Solobill Laville: hehe
Stim Morane: Hi Dakini
Dakini Rhode: hi Pema, Stim, Bill, Pila, & Calista :)
Calista Huntress: hi =)
Solobill Laville looks at Dakini and pats the cushion next to him
Dakini Rhode: ty Bill :)
Pema Pera: Calista, Dakini is the one who got the ball rolling with our meetings, by lending me her tea hut, on April Foolsday, for our first session -- we've gotten together several times a day ever since, as a group
Solobill Laville: :)
Calista Huntress: nice
Pema Pera: we had our 1000th session last month :)
Calista Huntress: wow
Calista Huntress: wtg
Pema Pera: and all of them can be read on http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- in case you ever suffer from insomnia
Dakini Rhode: haha that is a large number of sessions :)
Calista Huntress: I'm new to SL, but it seems such a perfect place to discuss the nature of existence
Pema Pera: yes!!!
Calista Huntress: what an interesting parallel to rl
Pema Pera: moving between RL and SL on a daily basis can be seen as an invitation to move in other ways as well, to wake up to new angles and directions
Calista Huntress: That is part of my hope
Solobill Laville: :)
Calista Huntress: wherever it may happen
Pila Mulligan: what was the earlier comment about integration related to Solo?
Solobill Laville: Well, Calista mentioned interest in Buddhism
Solobill Laville: and (my words) a fustration with Western materialistic society
Solobill Laville: Yet, we have to "play the game" in a way, as part of that society
Calista Huntress: yes
Pila Mulligan: inescapable it seems

Solo replayed the beginning of one of our threads.

Solobill Laville: Hence my comment: [19:24] Solobill Laville: As a Western Buddhist myself, a primary aspect of my practice is integration into my daily life
Pila Mulligan: ahh, thanks :)
Calista Huntress: it seem very much a game... so much of my daily interations are based on rules to which my responses are limited and cliche
Calista Huntress: and fals to how I may really feel
Pila Mulligan: 'all the world's a stage' it seems
Calista Huntress: I'd say facade
Pila Mulligan: :)
Solobill Laville: "play" indeed
Pila Mulligan: yes, how to be sincere in a shadow game ... what a challeneg
Pema Pera: so here we play a play within a play, we call in "Play as Being" -- as if we truly ARE rather than have, having so many roles to be stuck to . . . .
Calista Huntress: And ehat I know of Busshism rings so true with my inner voice
Pila Mulligan: Busshism ended :)
Calista Huntress: lol
Pila Mulligan: thank Buddha
Pema Pera: what we talk about here is totally compatible with Buddhism, but also with other traditions, such as Hinduism, Taoism, Christianity, Sufism, etc
Pema Pera: or just plain open exploration
Solobill Laville: yes
Calista Huntress: Yeah, the past 8 yeas have seemed very Orwellian to me
Pema Pera: yes . . . .
Pila Mulligan: Kafkaesque
Calista Huntress: which only goes to reinforce these feelings of living in a false existence
Pema Pera: but not forever, fortunately . . .
Calista Huntress: No, but meanwhile, for me this is the root of suffering
Solobill Laville: living in a false existence?
Calista Huntress: yes
Solobill Laville: -> To Pema
Pema Pera: ah, nothing is forever . . . and yet each moment is a door to eternity, beyond time
Pema Pera: (not meaning to sound abstract -- we take everything here very very concretely)
Pema Pera: part of the suffering stems from our habit of sliding from one moment into the next, heedlessly as Stim would say
Pema Pera: no need to do that
Pila Mulligan: the Bushism that just ended was a very sick period of history, and much of its manifestation was emoitional dysfunction and horrendous posture -- the phyiscal part is already being cured by the departure of the protagontist a few days ago
Pema Pera: (I have a title for this sessions: On Buddhism and Bushism!)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calista Huntress: lol
Solobill Laville loves it when titles happen like that
Pema Pera: :)

And so the title for our session was found.

Pila Mulligan: Wilhelm Reich wrote about the emotional plague, and that is where it was
Pila Mulligan: sicik leadership
Pema Pera: yet without Bush we may have had to wait another generation to get a non-white-male in office . . . .
Pila Mulligan: true
Pema Pera: co-dependent arising . . . .
Calista Huntress: Even Republicans I know are catiously optemisitc about the future
Calista Huntress: but still - to what end does any of it matter
Pila Mulligan: I think it does
Pila Mulligan: making the best of the Kali Yuga, at least
Pema Pera strongly suspects that Calista's friends are not average Republicans, but gets the drift, and has the same impression :-)
Calista Huntress: well, thy're not religious zellots
Pema Pera: A mother may love a child, not as a means to a goal, but just by expression love -- perhaps we can all learn to live that way in anything we do, and perhaps then nothing matters . . .
Pema Pera: (or everything)
Pila Mulligan: such an idealist, Pema :)
Pema Pera: no, pragmatist
Pema Pera: try and do that, success guaranteed!
Pema Pera: with real differences every day
Pema Pera: honestly!!!
Pema Pera: talking about it is idealism
Pema Pera: doing it is pragmatism
Dakini Rhode: Pema that would seem to be the highest expression of which we're capable, why wouldn't we want to go for it?
Pema Pera: because we have the false impression that it is too hard . . .
Pema Pera: . . . so we don't even try
Dakini Rhode: just think: what if it were possible there could be no more suffering?
Pema Pera: the 9 sec is a trick to get us out of that over-limited view of ourselves
Calista Huntress: I lke an expression that says: How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time
Pema Pera: maybe it is not only possible, but already actual, on some level -- and we just have to discover it, to see that suffering, too, is relative, and totally avoidable
Pema Pera: :) -> Calista
Calista Huntress: Suffering as I understand it is a result of craving
Calista Huntress: our societies are based on craving at a fundimental level
Pema Pera: but there are two ways to drop craving as a cause for suffering: 1) stop craving (perhaps impossible); 2) accept craving, look through it, refuse to be caught by it
Calista Huntress: I try especially where thae materialistic is concerned
Dakini Rhode: isn't there a third way?
Pema Pera: I'm sure there is, Dakini :)
Dakini Rhode: :)
Pema Pera: any suggestions?
Calista Huntress: but I don't seem any closer to feeling less sufferage

I mentioned some of the main aspects of our Play as Being explorations.

Pema Pera: not to sound like a salesperson, Calista, but you may want to try to drop what you have to see what you are, a few times an hour, as we do as a group, in RL, and see what happens :-)
Pema Pera is a bad salesperson anyway; everything here is free
Calista Huntress: drop what I see?
Solobill Laville: 100% commission!
Pema Pera: drop what you have
Pema Pera: so that you get more chance to see what you are
Pema Pera: drop roles, or at least identification that makes you stick to your roles in a sticky way
Pema Pera: (you were talking about the roles you're forced to play in society, which you didn't like)
Calista Huntress: When I have done that, I often come off as aloof to others
Pema Pera: ah, but you can continue playing, outwardly!
Pila Mulligan: aloof is cool :)
Dakini Rhode: we can discover layer upon layer of things to drop
Calista Huntress: I don't think people like to feel that their coccoon is at risk of being fractured
Calista Huntress: if that makes any sense
Dakini Rhode: it does take some courage, yes
Dakini Rhode: to poke holes in the cocoon
Pema Pera: yes, it does, so we use a trick, asking them to risk only for 9 sec every 15 minutes, as a kind of 1% sales tax on time
Pema Pera: (900 seconds in 15 minutes)
Dakini Rhode: yes, start with tiny holes
Dakini Rhode: pinholes
Pema Pera: :)
Dakini Rhode: it's sort of a gradual way to experiment with seeing things differently
Pema Pera: (we have a bell here that rings every fifteen minutes, as you may have heard, for that purpose)
Pema Pera: and a humorous way :)
Pema Pera: not a formal meditation

Knowing vs. Seeing.

Calista Huntress: Okay, but that's what I'm driving at - inside I know that the external world; this conceived reality is false - inside I think and feel things very differently - but the problem is that I have to continue a charade - I am and have often been troubled by this duality of my existence
Pema Pera: so the trick, the way out, is from knowing to "seeing" -- direct seeing that you are not trapped
Pema Pera: only "knowing" may make you feel worse . . . . it is kind of like a half-truth
Pema Pera: we're trying to cultivate seeing here, in an easy way
Pema Pera: and totally outside any "ism"
Pema Pera: "Buddh" or "Bush" :-)
Calista Huntress: lol
Calista Huntress: okay, so how does one beging to see
Pema Pera: many ways, but in our case we take it easy, we start by every 15 minutes (or just a few times an hour), to stop and drop what you are preoccupied with at that moment, and to try gently to see what you are
Pema Pera: many of us have reported -- bell ! :-) --
Pema Pera: that within a few hours or days the world lightens up already
Pema Pera: and a bit more seeing starts happening . . .
Pema Pera: . .. but you can't force it
Pema Pera: you have to invite it
Pema Pera: and sharing our experiences is very stimulating
Stim Morane: I have to go now. Thanks for the chat, everyone!
Pema Pera: bye Stim!
Solobill Laville: Bye, Stim
Calista Huntress: bye
Stim Morane: Bye
Pila Mulligan: bye Stim

Stim took off, and I would have to leave soon as well.

Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_log_excerpts may be a fun brief read
Pila Mulligan: I also need to go (to pick up a pizza)
Solobill Laville: Bye, Pila, enjoy
Calista Huntress: can you explain this "seeing what you are" and more precicley?
Pila Mulligan: thanks -- bye and aloha
Pema Pera: hard to explain
Pema Pera: or impossible actually
Pema Pera: however
Pema Pera: the more you do it the more you can try to point to it
Pema Pera: and recognize it when others do the same
Pema Pera: so over time we grow this network of shared pointing here
Pema Pera: does that make any sense?
Calista Huntress: yes and no... I think I will just have to be patient and see what comes of it. Perhaps, remembering that I am not my brain would be a good starting point
Solobill Laville: indeed :)
Pema Pera: yes, one of the things to drop, one of the many beliefs . . .
Pema Pera: the more you drop, the easier it gets to drop more
Pema Pera: like cleaning windows
Solobill Laville nods
Pema Pera: actually, I have to run now, have to make a phone call to US before East Coasters go to sleep . . . .
Pema Pera: nice meeting you Calista!
Calista Huntress: you too thanks
Solobill Laville: ;) Getting close to that time indeed, Pema
Pema Pera: and so good to see you again, Dakini, thanks for stopping by!
Solobill Laville: Bye, Pema

If anyone else recorded further conversations, they are more than welcome to add those here below.