2009.01.12 13:00 - Turning off the Static is Key

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     I'm not sure who was GOC...Steve sent me this log.  -Corvi

    Stim Morane: Hi Gaya!

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Stim :) How are you?

    Stim Morane: Not bad. And you?

    Gaya Ethaniel: Very well thank you

    Stim Morane: Is this a relatively new look for you?

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Scath :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gaya:)

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim:)

    Stim Morane: Hi Scathach

    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you today?

    Scathach Rhiadra: oh I'm fine, and you?

    Gaya Ethaniel is Offline

    Gaya Ethaniel is Online

    Pila Mulligan is Online

    Scathach Rhiadra: wb

    Stim Morane: Hi Pila

    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pila :)

    Pila Mulligan: greetings

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila:)

    Pila Mulligan: I hope everyone is well and happy

    Stim Morane: Yes

    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. Thank you. You are too I hope

    Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)

    Pila Mulligan: :) yep -- having lovely weather today after a lot of rain last week

    Pila Mulligan: avi spasms it seems

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Pila Mulligan: I recently told Stim a funny story in an email exchnage -- I was looking for it to shae here also

    Gaya Ethaniel: Please :)

    Pila Mulligan: ... as you know Taoism has been a modern religion as well as an older philosophy. Chinese were brought en masse to work on the Caucasian plantations here in the mid-1800's, and several Chinese communities were formed by those staying after working off their indentures. Before moving to the rainforest a few years ago, most of my time in Hawai`i was spent living in one of those communities on Maui. A neighbor, now in his 70's, had been raised there by his third generation parents and as a youth was required to attend services at the local Taoist temple (a stone's throw from my former residence.) In his later teenage years, as he liked to recount with a wry grin, he rebelled and became a Catholic.

    Stim Morane: How shall we rebell?

    Pila Mulligan: ironic to think of how many Catholics I knew whose rebellion led them to Taoism

    Pila Mulligan: escaping the grip of habits

    Stim Morane: Good idea

    Stim Morane: that pretty much covers it.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)

    Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel:)

    Stim Morane: Hi Tarmel!

    Tarmel Udimo: hello everyone

    Tarmel Udimo: I hope my entrance hasn't interrupted anything :-)

    Pila Mulligan: nope, not even the quiet :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: no:)

    Tarmel Udimo: :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: SL is odd today... I don't see what I type or some of what others typed are missing on my screen. Apologies in advance if sounding incoherent]

    Pila Mulligan: that happens to me also, Gaya -- it seems to be lag related

    Tarmel Udimo: this has been happening to me too for the last few days

    Stim Morane: I'm not getting that problem

    Scathach Rhiadra: nor me

    Tarmel Udimo: good to know, it seems to go in bursts normally I'm fine but a few days ago I couldn't even get into SL

    Pila Mulligan: Stim, are you familiar with the Chinese term hsing? It is used in the Secret of the Golden FLower to refer to human nature.

    Stim Morane: yes

    Pila Mulligan: I picked up a hitchiker on Maui some years ago and he turned out to be a chinese philoophy PhD candidate, doing his thesis on hsing

    Pila Mulligan: what a depe subject

    Stim Morane: Yes, that wouldn't be surprising

    Stim Morane: Chinese has many terms covering a range of levels of one's "nature".

    Pila Mulligan: is it not distinct from the same term, hsing, that refrs to heart and mind?

    Pila Mulligan: I ask because I think I may have bumbled an encounter last year with a Chinese master -- asking about hsing and proceeding with th wrong term

    Stim Morane: it would be easier to determine that by looking at the actual characters.

    Stim Morane: Anyway, perhaps we are better off sticking with English in this group, or with specific intended meanings.

    Pila Mulligan: yes, I just have been trying to figure out if the Chinese felow and I were talking about the same thing last year

    Stim Morane: :)

    Tarmel Udimo: could you give a brief overview of the levels of one's "nature" as they describe it

    Tarmel Udimo: does it relate to what we talk about in PaB in terms of terminology

    Stim Morane: there are many cases.

    Tarmel Udimo: appearance, pheomenoa etc

    Stim Morane: But I'm not sure how much of this has come up in PaB

    Tarmel Udimo: okay

    Stim Morane: The basic idea is always going to be that what is unfabricated, fundamental, is most important.

    Stim Morane: But there are many different aspects of this, even as regards "human nature".

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello poppy

    Tarmel Udimo: is this the same as "potential' "unmanifest"?

    Stim Morane: It's really not easy to say, without more context. The term rendered alphabetically as hsing can mean many things. And my comments too can mean many things.

    Tarmel Udimo: okay

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Stim Morane: For instance, "hsing" can mean "punishment"

    Stim Morane: or "form"

    Stim Morane: I think for us, the main points will always center around what we really are, and that was certainly part of the same concern reflected in the traditions Pila is referring to.

    Tarmel Udimo: yes which is why I was curious about what the levels of human nature were

    Stim Morane: for instance, there is what is truly "human" about us, vs "alive" vs "timeless"

    Stim Morane: These are all aspects of our nature, at different levels

    Gaya Ethaniel is Offline

    Pila Mulligan: when I met Master Yu Tian Jian, a self-proclaimed Living Buddha, last year, he chose to dwell on the heart and mind aspect, a little too far removed from the human nature aspect I felt familiar with

    Gaya Ethaniel is Online

    Pila Mulligan: it was uncomfortable then

    Stim Morane: that is more concerned with a nature beyond form, beyond the "personhood" aspect

    Stim Morane: but again, especially in Chinese ways of talking, even what you just mentioned could mean many things.

    Tarmel Udimo: I am curious to know what is truly "human" about us?

    Stim Morane: This harks back to the Confucian emphasis.

    Stim Morane: In that view, we have to earn our humanity.

    Stim Morane: We don't simply have it because we were born

    Stim Morane: We have to actively live up to it, and bring it out in others.

    Gaya Ethaniel is Offline

    Tarmel Udimo: hence the origin of compassion and humility and service to others?

    Stim Morane: Yes. It emphasizes true caring for others, respect, fellow-feeling, etc.

    Pila Mulligan: (note: in my limited knowlegde of the Secret of the Golden Flower, I would have used hun and po in the personal context and hsing and ming in the beyond personhood context)

    Stim Morane: Responsibility, standing by one's word ... many things.

    Tarmel Udimo: this would help to provide meaning in an essentially meaningless world

    Stim Morane: hun and po refer to emphases tending towards "heaven" vs "earth". This could mean a lot of things too, including an inclination towards deathlessness vs death.

    Stim Morane: It's all in the system or context

    Pila Mulligan: funny how easy it is to get corssed wire of understanding

    Pila Mulligan: crossed wires*

    Stim Morane: But we can easily find within ourselves an inclination towards such things as aliveness vs death, deadening emphases.

    Stim Morane: Yes, true Pila! :)

    Pila Mulligan: he did not speak english and I did not speak Chinese so the translator also had a role in the situation

    Stim Morane: Yes, that usually happens.

    Tarmel Udimo: yes and i understand about differences related to 'system or context' I guess I was searching for whether they talked about reason for Being?

    Stim Morane: This is up for grabs. "Being" can mean so many things, and I guess it's up to the people here in PaB to decide what they want it to mean.

    Tarmel Udimo: okay let me ask this another way?

    Tarmel Udimo: :-)

    Stim Morane: :)

    Tarmel Udimo: why do they think there is life or do they not know the answer?

    Stim Morane: You mean, why does life exist in the first place?

    Tarmel Udimo: yes?

    Stim Morane: Well ... the traditional answer re human life would be that we are a combination, a coming-together, of something from heaven and something from earth.

    Stim Morane: But I don't know if this is an answer for us.

    Tarmel Udimo: no

    Stim Morane: So for us, the question remains one we have to investigate.

    Pila Mulligan: Q. why does life exist A. because it can

    Stim Morane: apparently

    Tarmel Udimo: this investigation has been going on for many thounsands of years and stil no answer

    Tarmel Udimo: but point taken pila

    Scathach Rhiadra: maybe we are not asking the right questions

    Stim Morane: the ancients weren't really concerned with 'why' questions in the same way that we moderns are.

    Stim Morane: they were trying to address something else.

    Tarmel Udimo: yes - and this connects to what Scath is saying

    Tarmel Udimo: what were they trying to address?

    Stim Morane: They wanted to understand how to make the best of what we've got

    Stim Morane: to live properly, "naturally", etc

    Pila Mulligan: hi Solobill

    Stim Morane: Hi Solo

    Tarmel Udimo: hi solo

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello solobill

    Solobill Laville: Heya, folks! :)

    Solobill Laville: (don't want to interrupt, please continue)

    Tarmel Udimo: somehow that never seems to be enough.... well for me :-)

    Tarmel Udimo: no interrruption solo

    Stim Morane: Turn it around ... if someone told you that the answer to the 'why' question was such-and-such, how would that help? Would it satisfy you?

    Tarmel Udimo: if I felt it was the 'truth'

    Stim Morane: What would you do with it?

    Tarmel Udimo: be at peace

    Stim Morane: I think learning how to live properly would contribute more to that.

    Stim Morane: What do you think?

    Tarmel Udimo: yes it suffices for a time and then.....

    Pila Mulligan: maybe the question is how do we find a way to be at peace

    Stim Morane: the situation is complicated, because the "real" answer to the question cannot be understood by the ordinary mind. To understand it requires the cultivation that I'm referring to ... so the two approaches converge.

    Tarmel Udimo: okay this makes sense ;-)

    Stim Morane: To explain more: there really isn't a proper answer to your "why" question on the level of action, phenomena, causation etc.

    Stim Morane: So one has to go beyond that. This leads to the cultivation of a higher understanding.

    Stim Morane: Which requires refinement of one's approach to living, etc. Many levels ...

    Tarmel Udimo: okay I will continue on the path for many more moons and then eventually I will come to 'see' the truth

    Stim Morane: Then you can come back and explain it to us! :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Solobill Laville: :)

    Tarmel Udimo: happily - this is my goal and always has been....

    Solobill Laville admires Tarmel's commitment

    Stim Morane: Yes

    Tarmel Udimo: well hey I hope we'll all be there ;-)

    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Solobill Laville: Resolve is perhaps a better word... :)

    Tarmel Udimo: yes being a meagre human means this resolve wavers often :-)

    Pila Mulligan: I need to go check on some RL things now, thanks for an interesting session -- aloha everyone :)

    Solobill Laville: Bye, Pila

    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pila

    Tarmel Udimo: bye pila sorry to have taken over your questions

    Pila Mulligan is Offline

    Stim Morane: I will have to leave too in a minute.

    Tarmel Udimo: thnaks for your answers stim, it helped me this morning

    Stim Morane: Here are some things to look at re the more linguistic issues:

    Stim Morane: http://books.google.com/books?id=cqc8VqybPI0C&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=meanings+of+hsing&source=web&ots=lh1KFEAaQe&sig=bPLsHZGjzgHf1EVzt5O9fnaUgUs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

    Tarmel Udimo: thanks will do

    Stim Morane: and also http://atouchofancientszhouyi.blogspot.com/2005/08/note-on-hun-po-souls.html

    Stim Morane: I know we're not primarily concerned with that aspect of things, but just for the record.

    Stim Morane: Are the rest of you going to stick around for a while?

    Scathach Rhiadra: well I have to leve soon

    Scathach Rhiadra: leave*

    Tarmel Udimo: I have always assumed PaB was a gate way to all 360 degrees of understand spirit and being

    Stim Morane: Good

    Stim Morane: Well, I must go. If it seems necessary, would you send me the rest of the chat log, Solo?

    Solobill Laville: ok

    Stim Morane: Thanks! Bye all!

    Scathach Rhiadra: night Stim, ty:)

    Solobill Laville: Bye, Stim

    Solobill Laville: That is a nice picture, that 360...

    Tarmel Udimo: yes kind of makes it 3D

    Solobill Laville: ah, yes

    Solobill Laville: at least, PaB doesn't exclude anything, as far as I've seen.. :)

    Tarmel Udimo: hopefully not :-) have you both been having a good day?

    Scathach Rhiadra: true, you don't feel you are missing out on anything

    Solobill Laville: Yes, thanks, Tarmel

    Scathach Rhiadra: yes for me too:)

    Tarmel Udimo: yes I'm looking forwad to a good day

    Solobill Laville: Excellent!

    Tarmel Udimo: :)

    Scathach Rhiadra: well I must go, bye Tarmel, Solo

    Solobill Laville: Bye, Scath

    Tarmel Udimo: bye scath

    Scathach Rhiadra: namaste :)

    Solobill Laville: Isn't it amazing, Tarmel is getting ready for the day, Stim is getting ready for lunch, I am going home after work, and Scath is getting ready for bed...

    Solobill Laville: We are living a day at once

    Solobill Laville: :)

    Tarmel Udimo: yes that's what I love about SL except when I have to try and remember the time difference :-)

    Solobill Laville nods

    Solobill Laville: best to just use SL time mostly...

    Tarmel Udimo: its tricky when its 19 hours - I've set up a little chart for myself but i still get confused

    Tarmel Udimo: 19 hours ahead

    Solobill Laville: yes...I am in your past... :)

    Tarmel Udimo: and i am your future ;-)

    Solobill Laville: True!

    Tarmel Udimo: what did you do today?

    Solobill Laville: Work - I am still there, just thought I'd pop in for a bit...

    Tarmel Udimo: you work independently though I think you said?

    Solobill Laville: No, at a company

    Tarmel Udimo: okay

    Tarmel Udimo: and the wolverine community?

    Solobill Laville: That is an Education-focused group, from where I attended for my Master's degree

    Solobill Laville: Mostly educators and librarians focused on learning topics in SL

    Tarmel Udimo: sounds great

    Solobill Laville: Yes, very cool people

    Solobill Laville: I don't have enough time for all of my groups...

    Tarmel Udimo: a bit like RL :-)

    Solobill Laville: yup :)

    Solobill Laville: But I try to minimize and simplify and not over-commit

    Tarmel Udimo: this is a good plan

    Solobill Laville: Really it is about choice

    Tarmel Udimo: yes I am trying to choose my wisely

    Tarmel Udimo: this year as last year I was overloaded

    Tarmel Udimo: and it means one isn't working well

    Solobill Laville nods

    Solobill Laville: I felt like I was doing too much to maintain 100% quality in all the things I was doing

    Solobill Laville: That is not a good thing...

    Solobill Laville: And hard to re-charge the batteries

    Tarmel Udimo: exactly - recharging the batteries is what's left out of the loop all the time and then we wander why we're no longer excited by what we do...

    Solobill Laville: Good point

    Tarmel Udimo: I think alot of people in modern society are suffering from this - exhaustion

    Solobill Laville: Yes...and the constant static in their brains from the whirlwind we tend to live in

    Tarmel Udimo: nods

    Solobill Laville: Turning off the static is key :)

    Tarmel Udimo: okay - laughs well mine just went on - a calls come through that I must take

    Tarmel Udimo: I have to go now but it was nice talking :-)

    Solobill Laville: Yes! Bye Tarmel!

    Tarmel Udimo: enjoy your evening... in the past ;-)


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