2009.01.16 13:00 - Finding the Perfect Budgie Seed

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    Solobill was the guradian for this session, the comments are his.

    I arrived at the Playgoda to find Wol sitting there...

    Solobill Laville: Hello, friendly Wol... :)
    Wol Euler: hello solo!
    Solobill Laville: You good?
    Wol Euler realizes too late that she should have found an apt adjective. Sigh.
    Solobill Laville: try again
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Wol Euler: I'm well but somewhat slow, had a beer before dinner and it confounded my thinking
    Solobill Laville: ah...
    Solobill Laville: water may help...
    Solobill Laville: or tea
    Solobill Laville: or another beer
    Solobill Laville shrugs
    Wol Euler: I'm definitely getting old, my tolerance for alcohol diminishes visibly.
    Solobill Laville: Well, hmmm
    Solobill Laville: About 8 years ago I didn't drink at all for about a year and a half

    Tarmel joins us.

    Wol Euler waves to tarmel
    Solobill Laville: I remember distinctly the taste of the alcohol in wine the first time I had a glass again
    Solobill Laville: now, not so much noticed...
    Tarmel Udimo: hello there solo and wol
    Solobill Laville: Heya, Tarmel :)
    Solobill Laville: The body does have to work a bit to get it out of the blood...
    Wol Euler: oh yes, and I feel that happening too. It's dismal.
    Solobill Laville thinks of going completely dry again...
    Wol Euler: I am as good as, really. One or two at most, once or twice a month at most.
    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville: It is interesting in a way...
    Solobill Laville: I can get very sharp edges...if I don't sit (meditate), or have some
    Solobill Laville: other sort of "release"...a drink here or there can do that as well
    Solobill Laville: exercise as well
    Solobill Laville: does that make sense?
    Wol Euler: all but the "sharp edges", what do you mean there?
    Solobill Laville: hmm...
    Solobill Laville: Intense...
    Wol Euler: ah
    Solobill Laville: More up or down
    Solobill Laville: I am pretty even-keeled
    Solobill Laville: ...but enough about me... :)
    Wol Euler: aha, a greater emotional range
    Solobill Laville: I would not think range as much as expressed depth (?)
    Wol Euler ponders.
    Tarmel Udimo: that's good no expressing depth
    Solobill Laville: i think ultimately we are talking about balance
    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Fefonz join in.

    Solobill Laville: Heya, Fefonz :)
    Fefonz Quan: Hey there :)]
    Wol Euler: hello fefonz
    Wol Euler: long time no see!
    Fefonz Quan: yes, a whole day :)
    Wol Euler grins
    Tarmel Udimo: I think being passionate about what we're feeling and thinking can sometimes from a buddhist persepective be seen as wrong but the reality is that as human's we need it to keep driving us forward
    Fefonz Quan: or maybe for you it was longer, concerning your hair ...
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Solobill Laville: Hmmm
    Fefonz Quan: /nods
    Wol Euler: oh, I've changed style and colour several times since then!
    Solobill Laville: I wonder about the idea if passion and dispasion in Buddhist terms
    Fefonz Quan: you're too fast for me Wol :)
    Wol Euler: say more, solo?
    Fefonz Quan: i think that passion for itself is not wrong for buddhist, solo
    Solobill Laville: Well, I agree with Tarmel's point
    Wol Euler: aha, that a buddhist might consider passion = attachment?
    Solobill Laville grins at Wol
    Solobill Laville: that is where I was kinda going
    Fefonz Quan: or there can be passion without attachemnt
    Wol Euler: glad to help :)

    At this point Tarmel crashed...

    Wol Euler: tarmel goes Ping!
    Fefonz Quan: is it something we've said ? :)
    Wol Euler: probably had to get out of the water fast to avoid a shark.
    Solobill Laville: I think her cushion will still be warm when she returns (hopefully)
    Solobill Laville: It seems to me, as a human, we cannot but feel passion
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Solobill Laville: For individual things, of course, to individual tastes
    Fefonz Quan: but is it wrong?
    Solobill Laville: wb Tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Tarmel, WB
    Wol Euler: wb tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: kicked out by sl ;-)
    Wol Euler: passion is part of the rightness of life.
    Solobill Laville: Not wrong, no wrong really

    A newcomer joins us...Wol helps out again...Thanks!

    Tarmel Udimo: hi alan
    Fefonz Quan: looks like we agree on that, but there was the buddhist question
    Allan Whiteberry: Hello All. What's happening today?
    Wol Euler: hello allan
    Solobill Laville: Hi Allan
    Fefonz Quan: hi allan
    Wol Euler: na, willkommen nach Play as Being, allan
    Allan Whiteberry: danke
    Solobill Laville: I think the question is what you *do* with that passion
    Wol Euler: ich gebe Dir eine Einleitung in IM, um die anderen nicht zu stören
    Fefonz Quan: i agree solo
    Fefonz Quan: and i also have a hint when this passion is attachment or not
    Solobill Laville: ah, what is the hint?
    Solobill Laville: or do you mean generally speaking...
    Fefonz Quan: if you are passionate about something, what will happen if you don't get it?
    Solobill Laville: a sense of loss or suffering, unless you let go of it :)
    Fefonz Quan: exactly
    Fefonz Quan: i can imagine not having this suffering, but only for minor issues
    Solobill Laville: To follow up on Wol's point earlier...
    Tarmel Udimo: sory i'm just getting a note card ready for our pheno workshop today and will join in conversation shortly
    Wol Euler: ah, right, friday again. How time flies.
    Solobill Laville: ah, do you mean personally Fefonz?
    Fefonz Quan: yes, sure
    Tarmel Udimo: yes and i volunteered to be moderator - what fool i
    Solobill Laville points out that he is wearing his Tarmel-style hat...
    Wol Euler: hehehehe
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Wol Euler: I shall sit at the back and heckle, Tarmel
    Solobill Laville: T-beanie
    Tarmel Udimo: please do
    Solobill Laville: Fefonz, what is the difference between minor and major issues?
    Tarmel Udimo: is there a way to rename a note card
    Fefonz Quan: for example, i can get to a restaurant and really want a steak,
    Wol Euler: right-click and "rename", if you own it or have rights
    Tarmel Udimo: oh just read that nice hat solo :-)
    Fefonz Quan: but if i find there are only fish, i might switch to it with no hard feelings
    Solobill Laville nods
    Fefonz Quan: if i want someting "bigger", letting go will be much harder
    Fefonz Quan: (sounds like a trivial notion, but anyway)
    Solobill Laville: Not trivial at all :)
    Wol Euler: I have a really uneasy feeling about this, actually. I think a life without any passion is worse than being dead.
    Wol Euler: at least if you're dead, you don't have to polish your shoes
    Fefonz Quan: i agree, we shouldn't remove the passion
    Solobill Laville: Would you accept the argument that perhaps your idea that it would be harder possibly helps to make it harder?
    Fefonz Quan: it might add to it, but most of it seems natural
    Solobill Laville: I'd argue that it is impossible not to have passion and be a functional human actually
    Fefonz Quan: functional do sounds very cold in this context
    Solobill Laville: :) yes, indeed, the thought in my mind was actually of someone so ill in hospital that they couldn't funtion...

    Tarmel gets right to the chase...

    Tarmel Udimo: I'm working on non attachment to outcomes or have we discussed that already
    Fefonz Quan: not fully:)
    Solobill Laville: I think we're circling the wagons right now!
    Tarmel Udimo: have the indians arrived yet?
    Solobill Laville: oh, yes :)
    Tarmel Udimo: I'm on their side by the way
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Fefonz Quan: not till we see the arrows :)
    Solobill Laville: There's one in my hat...
    Tarmel Udimo: hopefully shamanic ones
    Fefonz Quan: (the second arrow is our problem though, isn't it?)
    Allan Whiteberry: Please Mr. Custer, I don't wanna go.............
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: yes indeed fefonz
    Solobill Laville: Wol, care to expand on your last thought? ...a life without any passion is worse than being dead...
    Wol Euler: well, poetic license; but I did mean it. I cannot conceive of Living without passion for something, be it finding the perfect budgie seed.
    Wol Euler: being alive, sure, but not Living.
    Solobill Laville: And is that juxtaposed to anything specifically?
    Fefonz Quan loves that word, juxtaposed
    Wol Euler: mm, no, Living as a positive active involved state, as opposed to simply not being dead yet.
    Wol Euler: it seems to me that many religions aim for a state of being as-good-as-dead while still alive.
    Allan Whiteberry: really?
    Fefonz Quan: which religion for example?
    Tarmel Udimo: i think thats a misnomer
    Tarmel Udimo: wol you're on the spot now.....
    Wol Euler: poetic license again.
    Wol Euler: but the apparent ideal of Buddhism, that one should feel nothing more or differently for a pebble than for your daughter is repugnant to me.
    Allan Whiteberry: Whether you believe their dogma or not, most religions want you to be passionate about it
    Fefonz Quan: i'm not sure i agree that this is the buddhist idea
    Wol Euler: perhaps I exaggerate.
    Wol Euler: but if all attachment must be avoided, then there is no place for love.
    Fefonz Quan: why not?
    Tarmel Udimo: good point allan
    Solobill Laville: (Allan, is it OK to include you comments for our wiki?)
    Allan Whiteberry: yes, sure
    Wol Euler: (I did ask, he agreed)
    Solobill Laville: thx :)

    Love and attachment...and Corvi!


    Fefonz Quan: does love and attachment must go together Wol?
    Tarmel Udimo: my understanding about attachment is attachment to things, that we can actually being expereincing and feeling and being passionate but we are not wraped up in it....
    Wol Euler: I think so, yes. By the way you explained that passion is attachment because its frustration causes sadness, then love is the biggest attachment of all
    Tarmel Udimo: one can love without ownership, (not that I succeed very well)
    Fefonz Quan disagree with the pasion==attachment conjecture
    Allan Whiteberry: passion can be negative, yes?
    Allan Whiteberry: passion can be hate
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Wol Euler: corvi!
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Corvi :)
    Solobill Laville: Heya, Corvi :)
    Tarmel Udimo: misplaced passion is why we kill each other
    Tarmel Udimo: hey corvi
    Allan Whiteberry: Hello Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all
    Solobill Laville: Is passion a thing? A state? A conception?
    Allan Whiteberry: Got to go now. See you all later.
    Solobill Laville: Bye allan
    Wol Euler: passion is also what made Michelangelo spend six years painting the Sistine Chapel when two coats of whitewash would have done just as well
    Fefonz Quan: bye alllan
    Wol Euler: bye allan
    Tarmel Udimo: buddha basically found out that humans suffer and we suffer because we are attached
    Tarmel Udimo: he therefore came up with ways to unattach ourselves by getting humans to see what reality actually is which is empty
    Fefonz Quan: (human AND we :))
    Wol Euler pats the pillow next to her and looks to corvi.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Wol.
    Tarmel Udimo: so for me why I respect and follow buddist ways is that as a religion it takes us further into the why we are the way we are and then helps us to deal with that
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Solobill Laville notes that of course Buddhists don't have the market cornered on that ;)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Tarmel Udimo: christianity can do that too but its path is via love and the heart and surrendering to this path of unconditional love
    Fefonz Quan: (not always practiced by all christians)
    Tarmel Udimo: true enough its about finding an approach that resonates within
    Solobill Laville: There are many levels of religious interaction it seems within any one religion
    Solobill Laville: St. Theresa described 7 stages of "divine communion" (my words by the way)
    Fefonz Quan: why do we need religion in order to know how to behave?
    solobill Laville: Ethics is one of the primary ways, yes...
    Fefonz Quan: one of the things i love about buddhism is it's unreligionality in some sense
    Solobill Laville: How so, Fefonz?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes me too and yet traditional thibetan buddist practise has some pretty full on rituals just like roman catholics or anglicans
    Fefonz Quan: right, but there are many paths to choose
    Fefonz Quan: i can practice vipashyana without being "a buddhist"
    Fefonz Quan: as much as i can practice PaB without being "a PaBist" ;-)
    Fefonz Quan: (though it is a honorable company :)
    Solobill Laville: It can get tricky being passionate about being a Buddhist with getting some of that attachment to the idea of a being a Buddhist (or PaBist ;)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Fefonz Quan: exactly Solo
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Solobill Laville: (or a beanie-wearer)
    Fefonz Quan: that's why i wouldn't define myself as none

    Pila join us, and rezzes right in the fountain...

    Fefonz Quan: Hi Pila
    Tarmel Udimo: hi pila
    Solobill Laville: Pila walks on water!
    Thud Lorakeet: thanks. inspired by our recent vice-presidential loser. . .
    Solobill Laville: Heya, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: excuse me .. hi
    Wol Euler: hello pila
    Fefonz Quan: (and Pila is not the first avatr to do so :))
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya Pila, Thud.
    Solobill Laville: no, excuses necessary, Pila :)
    Fefonz Quan: But tarmel (or Solo) where going somewhere before i jumped up the religion thing, so we can go back...
    Solobill Laville shrugs
    Solobill Laville: It's all good
    Solobill Laville: plus we only have a couple of minutes before
    Solobill Laville: the Phenomenologists must poof
    Solobill Laville: wb Pila
    Fefonz Quan: (and less if we type this long word 2 more times :)
    Pila Mulligan: Pila will poof soon, if SL allows :)
    Solobill Laville: (more if you copy and paste)
    Fefonz Quan: poof soon - spoof?
    Solobill Laville wonders if Thud's outfit is a new default for avs...
    Solobill Laville: ah, poof - TP away
    Fefonz Quan: yep
    Tarmel Udimo: are we all off to kira cafe?
    Fefonz Quan: i guess, so, unless we found a rebel group ;-)
    Solobill Laville: No, I am maxxed in my SL tax...
    Fefonz Quan: time to go, isn't it?
    Tarmel Udimo: yep
    Fefonz Quan: how about group TP, did someone did it yet?
    Tarmel Udimo: see you there
    Fefonz Quan: see you tarmel
    Pila Mulligan: still trying :)
    Wol Euler: I won't be at the cafe, sorry, at least not at first. Might catch you there later.
    Wol Euler: bye for now, to all who are going
    Fefonz Quan: it is a dillema...
    Wol Euler: and bye too to those who aren't :)
    Wol Euler: have a good weekend, perhaps see you another day.
    Fefonz Quan: bye Wol :)
    Fefonz Quan: see you there Corvi?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no..I won't be on for long.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so...I'll have to skip this one, too.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and read it later.
    Fefonz Quan: so bye for now, Corvi and Solo
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye all.
    Solobill Laville: bye
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