2009.01.26 13:00 - Dance, Art, Meditation

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane.  Title suggested by Corvi.

    Wol Euler chuckles. Hello susi, stim, I didn't see you arrive

    Susi Alcott: Hi Stim, Wol

    Stim Morane: Hi Wol, Susi
    Stim Morane: It's OK, I was enjoying watching you, Wol
    Wol Euler laughs and blushes
    Susi Alcott: :)
    Wol Euler: I've just got a dance chimera, I was trying it out
    Stim Morane: Your balance on those high-heel shoes is impressive
    Wol Euler: hehehehe, if I could dance that well in RL ...
    Wol Euler: brb
    Wol Euler: I had made a cup of tea but left it sitting in the kitchen. That's not much use!
    Stim Morane: try again
    Stim Morane: we'll wait
    Wol Euler: no, I've got it now. It's still hot
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim, Wol:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Stim, Wol, Scath
    Stim Morane: Hi Schathach, Fefonz
    Wol Euler: hello scath, fefonz
    Stim Morane: *Scathach
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Fefonz Quan: what's the SL term for teeth breaking
    Scathach Rhiadra: ?
    Wol Euler: as in "learning"?
    Fefonz Quan: (when it's hard to pronounce something)
    Wol Euler: or "painful damage"=
    Wol Euler: ah
    Wol Euler: finger-twisting?
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Stim Morane: strangely, one expression is to "cut your teeth on"
    Fefonz Quan: yes, that sounds close to the version i know. (not in english though)
    Stim Morane: Yes, I've heard it all my life, but can't explain it.
    Stim Morane: English is an odd language
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Fefonz Quan: it could be even...
    Wol Euler: my favourite phrase to illustrate the oddness of English is "plough through tough dough".
    Wol Euler: identical spelling, utterly differnt pronunciation.
    Stim Morane: Yes, there are many such illustrations of the pronunciation irregularities
    Scathach Rhiadra: a baby cuts its teeth by chewing on things, maybe that iswhere it comes from
    Fefonz Quan: which witch watch which watch?
    Stim Morane: Yes, you're likely right, Scathach
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Susi :)
    Wol Euler: wb susi
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Susi
    Stim Morane: Hi again, Susi
    Fefonz Quan: he'smelting...
    Susi Alcott: crashed
    Stim Morane: so it wasn't a sl problem?
    Susi Alcott: Hi all
    Wol Euler: ah, what's the word for the transformation of ice into vapour without passing through the water stage? that's what Susi is doing :)
    Wol Euler: trans... hmmmmmm
    Stim Morane: sublimation
    Wol Euler: right! thank you stim!
    Stim Morane: So, does anyone have a hot discussion topic today? Or is that it? :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: how about Art, and why it is so important to people?
    Stim Morane: Great topic. Could you start?
    Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, I spent a lot of time this weekend looking at Buddhist art for Adam's exhibition...
    Stim Morane: Oh, I missed hearing about that exhibit.
    Stim Morane: Where/when is it?
    Scathach Rhiadra: it got me thinking how creativity fits into the human experience
    Scathach Rhiadra: I think it is due to open early Frb, in Ruel
    Susi Alcott: sry; RL alert call this time
    Scathach Rhiadra: Feb*
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Fefonz Quan: more apecific coordinates? :)
    Wol Euler: bye susi, take care
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye
    Stim Morane: bye Susi
    Wol Euler: in the Hall of Appearances, right?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes that is it:0
    Stim Morane: I didn't realize Adams was interested in Buddhist Art.
    Scathach Rhiadra: the exhibition is sacred art and structures in virtual worlds, SL
    Stim Morane: I see.
    Stim Morane: Great
    Scathach Rhiadra: all religions are represented
    Stim Morane: I was thinking of doing a lecture or two on Buddhist Art somewhere here ...
    Stim Morane: But nothing is scheduled yet.
    Fefonz Quan: that sounds very interesting, stim
    Wol Euler: yes indeed
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)
    Wol Euler: perhaps timed to coincide with the exhibition?
    Stim Morane: It's an odd topic, because that art is not always very "artful" in the sense Scathach is mentioning.
    Stim Morane: It is designed to address other issues
    Stim Morane: I'll check about that idea, Wol
    Scathach Rhiadra: true, but all art seems to mean so much to people, just got me thinking why
    Stim Morane: Yes, love the topic
    Fefonz Quan: matbe it's just another way of communication
    Stim Morane: Scathach, are you including things like music here?
    Fefonz Quan: (excuse my use of "just")
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, and theatre, liturature
    Scathach Rhiadra: literature*
    Stim Morane: OK, the very broad sense of art, then.
    Stim Morane: Good
    Fefonz Quan: it can be a way to express the huma experience that transcends word, or "direct" informatin
    Stim Morane: yes. And shares high-level insights very well too.
    Fefonz Quan: by using symbols, body language, and all other abstract to non-abstract forms
    Fefonz Quan: yes, trying to po9int to the unexpressable iusing different means
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Fefonz Quan: not to forget, that some kind of art try more directly to "imitate" life
    Fefonz Quan: (or document in a way)
    Stim Morane: yes, and to help us renew our own understanding and appreciation of it
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, good art can 'touch' us in a very profound way, either for good or bad
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fefonz Quan: though some of it keeps us entertained, saved us from boredome
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Wol Euler: well, there are the divisions of "high" and "low" art, not to mention good and bad
    Fefonz Quan: (not to mention getting the girls for the performers) :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ha:)
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
    Fefonz Quan was pointing to the motivation of the artists, that might be quite egoistic and non-divine at all
    Scathach Rhiadra: I suppose SL could be concidered a type of art
    Stim Morane: I was wondering about that ... is that what you all think?
    Fefonz Quan: or a platform for art?
    Wol Euler nods. The 3d-building of NPIRL for instance, is definitely art.
    Wol Euler: IMHO
    Fefonz Quan: i think it is more like the canvas then the painting
    Scathach Rhiadra: and all the avs are the artists?
    Fefonz Quan: not all, just teh ones that create art
    Fefonz Quan: not me, for example
    Wol Euler: I'd guess that we are more artified than our RL selves, in most cases.
    Wol Euler grins at Fefonz.
    Fefonz Quan: Fefonz Quan: not me, for example
    Fefonz Quan: ;-)
    Wol Euler: indeed
    Scathach Rhiadra: but you participate in the creations:0
    Fefonz Quan: if you go on with that Wol, i'll remind you that you said you'd take me for shopping one day :)
    Wol Euler: I suppose it depends what people want to get out of SL. Some use it simply as a tool to enable them to meet people.
    Wol Euler: the offer stands, whenever you wish.
    Stim Morane: I win the "most boring avatar" contest.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :))
    Wol Euler: why is that, Stim?
    Stim Morane: or maybe not ...
    Stim Morane: :)
    Fefonz Quan: just pick the time, Wol
    Stim Morane: The world is art, for me ... just taking a walk down the street counts.
    Fefonz Quan: doesn't it difuse the meaning of the word in a sense?
    Stim Morane: But "art" is a tricky category. And what Scachach is emphasizing goes beyond what I usually concentrate on most.
    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Wol Euler: I'll agree that the world is full of strangeness and beauty
    Fefonz Quan: me too
    Stim Morane: It's a question of creating vs "seeing"
    Wol Euler: but I too would hesitate about the word "art" because to me it implies intention.
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Stim Morane: I admit I was stretching things. My motive was to see if any of you wanted to pull the issue back to PaB emphases.
    Scathach Rhiadra: but can the creations help us to 'see', sometimes in a spontaneous way?
    Stim Morane: That was my question too.
    Fefonz Quan: i believe that sometimes they do
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Fefonz Quan: i wouldn't call it spontaneous, only because it communicates in different then regular linear way
    Scathach Rhiadra: mnnn, it bypasses the usual analyitical way?
    Wol Euler: hitting the emotions more directly, but also the ... calmness centres of the mind.
    Wol Euler: staring at a Rothko is as good as meditation to me
    Fefonz Quan: i think so, scath
    Fefonz Quan: it's like experimenting instead of analysing
    Fefonz Quan: we "experiment" a scene in a movie, and our respoinse can be immediate
    Stim Morane: So how does that differ from the 9-sec practice's results?
    Fefonz Quan: less regular i guess :)
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Stim Morane: Yes, I suppose so.
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Scathach Rhiadra: you don't always have access to good art:)
    Stim Morane: oh well
    Wol Euler: true, and being a good meditator is possibly easier than being a good artist.
    Fefonz Quan: exactly, Scath, i also tried to say that few art works succeed in that
    Scathach Rhiadra: definitely:)
    Fefonz Quan: infact, in this era of TV, i feel many of them try hard to make us more materialistic and unhappy
    Fefonz Quan: (talking about tv shows)
    Scathach Rhiadra admits I have not watched TV in months:)
    Fefonz Quan: So does an artist need to "see" clearly in order to make art that
    Fefonz Quan: will effect us in the right way?
    Stim Morane: in some particular way, probably.
    Stim Morane: "seeing" means many things.
    Stim Morane: Even in the meditation context, where I use the word constantly, it means many distinct things.
    Scathach Rhiadra: hmm, I've just remembered a little poem someone made from a Sutra, 'An artist once a picture painted, of such a monster that he fainted'..
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Wol Euler is reminded of Pygmalion.
    Stim Morane: or Dorian Gray
    Wol Euler: mmhm
    Fefonz Quan: so those examples do show that sometimes the artists intention and the results are totally different
    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Fefonz Quan: there are some who claim that great art comes when the artist "removes" itself in a way from the process,
    Fefonz Quan: thus activates as a "pipe;ine" through which the
    Stim Morane: Yes. The whole idea of "art" differs from culture to culture.
    Fefonz Quan: divine inspiration goes
    Fefonz Quan: (cosmic instead of divein is you wish)
    Wol Euler: where does that leave "creativity", I wonder?
    Stim Morane: Thanks very much for the discussion! I will have to go in a moment ... but perhaps we can revisit this topic at some point.
    Wol Euler: is the best artist the one who is most able to turn himself off?
    Wol Euler: yes, the hour is up. Let's revisit this another day
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Stim!
    Wol Euler: goodnight stim, take care
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim:)
    Stim Morane: Bye everyone!
    Fefonz Quan: i don't think so , Wol
    Fefonz Quan: in fact it defines "inspiration" as this surrender
    Wol Euler: mmmmmmm, inspiration is not exactly creativity.
    Fefonz Quan: aren't they entangled?
    Wol Euler: inspiration is why I pick up a pencil, creativity is what I do with it
    Wol Euler: (as I think of the words)
    Fefonz Quan: if you take the pencil and draw with it, i thought that without inspiration it won't go so well.
    Fefonz Quan: (i believe poetry is a simpler example here)
    Wol Euler: true, but without creativity it will also go badly, or dully
    Fefonz Quan: as i understand it, creativity is the process and inspirasio is the "muse"
    Scathach Rhiadra: I've always imagined that the poet 'recognises' when they have found the right words, an instinctual thing
    Wol Euler: but it may take much time and effort, many false starts and wrong turns, to get to that point.
    Fefonz Quan: right. i remember my dissapointment when visiting the London National gallery and finding that "yesterday" had some erased and changed words on the draft paper
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Wol Euler: actually that should please you! It proves that even genius needs hard work and sometimes gets it wrong.
    Fefonz Quan: needing hard work seldom pleases me ;-)
    Wol Euler: the song is not the result of some semi-miraculous "McCartney-ness"
    Wol Euler: lol
    Wol Euler: agreed, but seeing those corrections is to me a positive and inspiring (!) thing.
    Fefonz Quan: yes, for me too
    Wol Euler: it makes my own failures and mistakes seem less fatal
    Fefonz Quan: or even more essential to the process
    Wol Euler sighs and yawns. I must go, sorry, I'm really tired.
    Wol Euler: Goodnight my dears, take care.
    Fefonz Quan: Good night Wol :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ok, good night Wol:)
    Fefonz Quan: did you get some answers to your questions?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it was a good discussion:0
    Fefonz Quan: what does :o means?
    Fefonz Quan: mean*
    Scathach Rhiadra: just my bad typing, it is meant to be :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: not holding down the shift key long enough
    Fefonz Quan: :0
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: I had better go too, good night Fefonz, namasté
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Fefonz Quan: night scath
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