2009.01.30 13:00 - Cynicism

Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session, replacing Solobill Laville.

Wol Euler: hello gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Nice hair
Wol Euler: ah, and I just changed it :)
Gaya Ethaniel: hm... SL is playing up again. I don't see what I type
Gaya Ethaniel: brb
Wol Euler: ok
Wol Euler: hello allan
Allan Whiteberry: Hello Wol
Wol Euler: wb gaya
Wol Euler: and hello samuel
Samuel Okelly: 
Samuel Okelly: ( @ @ ) 
Samuel Okelly: ...o00o.(_).o00o...
Samuel Okelly: (( Hello everyone! ))
Samuel Okelly: 
Gaya Ethaniel: ty :)
Wol Euler: how is everyone today?
Gaya Ethaniel: Good thanks yourself?
Samuel Okelly: not too bad here thanks :)
Wol Euler: struggling on :) Glad it's Friday.
Samuel Okelly: hows you wol?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: You changed your hair while I was gone Wol
Wol Euler: several times :)
Gaya Ethaniel: This one nice also :)
Wol Euler: I can't find the just right hair for this outfit.
Gaya Ethaniel: Looks good to me... but don't ask for this oldie's advice on appearances
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Samuel Okelly: please excuse my delayed responses folkes but i have really bad chat log :(
Gaya Ethaniel: I had to re-log too don't worry Samuel
Wol Euler: SL is terrible today, I took 30 minutes to TP here, I thought I'd hvae to log out and relog in this sim
Samuel Okelly: do we have a topic to discuss?
Wol Euler: Solobill is stuck in RL today, I volunteered to take the session on his behalf.
Wol Euler: I was just about to ask.
Wol Euler: Any suggestions, Samuel?
Samuel Okelly: well...
Samuel Okelly: onlyin the abscence of other suggestions...
Wol Euler: fire away. Unless anyone else has a topic?
Gaya Ethaniel shakes her head no
Wol Euler: Seems to be yours, Samuel :)

Samuel suggests a topic for discussion. 

Samuel Okelly: i have noticed quite a lot recently that many blogs, Youtube videos etc on the net are filled with very angry and cynicsal ppl....
Samuel Okelly: why is this do you think?
Wol Euler: I'm not sure, what is your guess?
Gaya Ethaniel: I haven't noticed that so not sure
Allan Whiteberry: Perhaps because the world is not moving in a very positive direction at the moment
Samuel Okelly: are ppl generally more angry today than in the past or is it simply that the net attracts and affords such ppl an opportunuity to voice the views?
Allan Whiteberry: I think the economic problems are a large cause
Wol Euler: perhaps both, samuel. It is easier to discover people's - strangers' - opinions than ever before.
Samuel Okelly: i saw a documentary that suggested that the number of known peodophiles has increased proportionately with the increased use of the net
Wol Euler snorts. I'd like to see that statistically demonstrated.
Samuel Okelly: apparantly it affords previously small interest groups to form and identify with a perceived larger community
Wol Euler: sure, as we do here in SL.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler: if it's true ...
Samuel Okelly: this was the view of a london police dept tasked with fighting such crime
Wol Euler: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: I saw the documentary you mention Samuel
Samuel Okelly: do you think the likes of YouTUBE attracts a certain "type" of person?
Allan Whiteberry: No, not in particular
Gaya Ethaniel: It is still debatable if the net turns someone into a criminal.
Wol Euler: depends what you mean by "certain", Samuel.
Wol Euler: it attracts you, for instance. You reported on the increase of cynicism there
Samuel Okelly: well i recognise that though the net is a great bowl of information ... IMO there is more crap than quality on it
Wol Euler: I'm sorry, I am in an argumentative mood today. Perhaps I should sit back a little.
Gaya Ethaniel pats Wol's hands
Samuel Okelly: and i wonder if that is the same in the case of such sites as YouTUBE?
Wol Euler breathes deeply and stretches her shoulders.
Allan Whiteberry: Is not the same true of the mainstream media?
Gaya Ethaniel: Strange thing is... I haven't seen such a clip on Youtube Samuel. Wonder why that is
Wol Euler: hello Jackie.
Gaya Ethaniel lights a candle for Wol
Samuel Okelly: hi jac :)
Wol Euler: born yesterday, I see! welcome to second life.
jackie Xomotron: hello
Wol Euler: we're a meditation and discussion group, you are welcome to join if you wish
Wol Euler: thank you, Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Pleasure :)
jackie Xomotron: how do i do?
Wol Euler: right-click on a cushion and choose "sit", first off :)
Wol Euler: Ill give you an introduciton to the group in IM so that we dont disturb the others.
Wol Euler: please carry on, everyone, we'll catch up to you :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Neither blogs Samuel. Perhaps you are attracted to/interested in those videos and blogs than I am
Gaya Ethaniel: And my friends tend to send me funny videos or thoughtful blogs
Gaya Ethaniel: So my experience of net is quite different from yours
Samuel Okelly: Mmmmmmmm
Allan Whiteberry: I think people tend to communicate more when they are dissatisfied, than if they are pleased about something.
Allan Whiteberry: I.e. complain
Wol Euler nods. Business owners would agree with you, Allan. Happy customers tell two friends on average, whereas unhappy ones tell eight.
Gaya Ethaniel ponders... need to learn more about sharing good things/times
Allan Whiteberry: So perhaps that partially explains why there are more cynical blogs, etc. on the web.
Allan Whiteberry: If indeed it is true
Samuel Okelly: please excuse me every1 :)
Wol Euler: samuel?
Samuel Okelly: tc & hope to return in a short while
Wol Euler: I hope we haven't driven you away angry?
Samuel Okelly: i must leave
Samuel Okelly: no noooo
Gaya Ethaniel: Probably right Allan. I see more bad news than good ones on news programmes
Samuel Okelly: rl is calling
Wol Euler: good.
Wol Euler: take care, enjoy the weekend
Samuel Okelly: rl is calling
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Samuel

We continue to bat the topic of anger and cynicism around. 

Wol Euler: I think he was a bit disappointed that we didn't rush to agree.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Allan Whiteberry: it seemed so.
Wol Euler: ah well.
Allan Whiteberry: looks like Jakie has left also
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I think she was a true fly-past, just looking around.
Wol Euler: people who find us by searching for buddhism or meditation etc are more likely to stay.
Allan Whiteberry: That's how I came to be here the first time. Pure chance
Wol Euler smiles.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Wol Euler: but it rang bells for you (so to speak)
Allan Whiteberry: It was a break from the kind of places I had seen earlier.
Wol Euler: well, shll we continue with Samuel's question in his absence?
Gaya Ethaniel: sure
Allan Whiteberry: If we haven't covered it.
Wol Euler: I am really dubious of such reports, because media needs sensation to sell its product.
Wol Euler: bad news sells better than good.
Wol Euler: they have a commercial interest in making the world look bad
Gaya Ethaniel: I want to know why bad news sells better than good
Wol Euler: as do police departments, they need their budgets increased :)
Wol Euler: good question, let's consider it.
Allan Whiteberry: hmmmmmmm
Gaya Ethaniel: I've been puzzled by it
Wol Euler: maybe it isn't true, that is my supposition which might only prove Samuel's point about hte prevalence of cynicism.
Allan Whiteberry: perhaps good news is boring, and bad news is exciting
Wol Euler: perhaps it is even evolutionary. Bad news is generally more important than good.
Wol Euler: Letting yourself think about the strawberries rather than that tiger in the bushes, for instance. Better concentrate on the tiger.
Allan Whiteberry: knowing about bad news was important to survival
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Wol Euler: "Oggk got sick after eating those little greenish berries. I'll avoid them."
Gaya Ethaniel: Pehaps that is it...
Allan Whiteberry: But "cynical" is not the same as that
Gaya Ethaniel: Cynical is...? Not trusting?
Wol Euler: presuming the worst, I would say.
Allan Whiteberry: Not trusting, not believing, no confidence
Wol Euler: that the bad is more likely than the good
Allan Whiteberry: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: I see...
Allan Whiteberry: Got to leave now, sorry. See you all next time
Gaya Ethaniel: Have a good day
Wol Euler: bye allan, take care. enjoy the weekend.
Allan Whiteberry: You too. Bye for now

Gaya and I continued to discuss cynicism. 

Gaya Ethaniel: Is it inevitable to become cynical as we get older Wol?
Wol Euler: and then there were two.
Wol Euler: no!
Wol Euler: hell no, in fact.
Wol Euler: it's just easier to do so.
Wol Euler: (my cynical opinion! heheheheh)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Why easier? In what way?
Wol Euler: I think cynicism is ... a kind of defence mechanism.
Wol Euler: If I expect the worst of people, they cannot disappoint me.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Wol Euler: but also it is somehow in the nature of how we come togehter as groups.
Wol Euler: If you say "I love [this particular thing]," it can make you look silly, unprofessional, over-enthusiastic, childish even
Wol Euler: whereas someone who says "I hate [that particular thing]" is often assumed to be of superior taste and discernment, because they see something bad in it that we didn't detect.
Gaya Ethaniel: mm... I can see your first point in the office setting
Wol Euler: but it happens in the pub too, talking about films.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... yes true
Wol Euler: "I thought it was great" against "I wasn't really satisfied"
Gaya Ethaniel: Being critical can be a valued trait at certain situations
Wol Euler: as a tool yes. As a default setting for life, no.
Wol Euler: I would say.
Gaya Ethaniel laughs @ a default setting
Gaya Ethaniel: So employ at will is the key with cynicism

Tarmel joins us.

Wol Euler: hello tarmel
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)
Wol Euler: with criticism, I would rather say.
Wol Euler: had breakfast yet?
Tarmel Udimo: hey there, slept in
Gaya Ethaniel: So you also think being cynical is not good?
Tarmel Udimo: making tea byb
Wol Euler: I think it's just too easy.
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Wol Euler: it is the soft and lazy option, I think.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok otherwise no downside
Wol Euler: I quoted the Smiths here in this context before:
Gaya Ethaniel: I actually value people who can be cynical because I am a bit opposite
Wol Euler: "It's so easy to laugh [i.e. at somebody], it's so easy to hate, it takes guts to be gentle and kind."
Gaya Ethaniel: True takes efforts
Wol Euler: a balance is good, sure.
Wol Euler: and risk.
Wol Euler: if you cynically assume that people are bad and keep your hands in your pockets, you risk nothing.
Tarmel Udimo: I am back
Gaya Ethaniel: wb
Wol Euler: except not meeting someone who might just change your life for the better
Wol Euler: wb tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: will have to go to meeting soon
Wol Euler: but you'll never know about what didn't happen, whereas you _would_ know if they took a fiver from you.
Wol Euler: ah yes, nearly 2pm
Gaya Ethaniel ponders...
Tarmel Udimo: are you trying to convince gaya to open her heart and sing :-)
Wol Euler: hehehehehehe
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler: I'd find that a good thing if she did!
Wol Euler: Samuel started us of by stating that there was an increase in cynical and angry "stuff" in the internets
Tarmel Udimo: ohhh I hadn't noticed
Wol Euler: nor I ...
Gaya Ethaniel: See...
Wol Euler smiles
Tarmel Udimo: he lives in the US yes?
Gaya Ethaniel: Sounded like UK because of a documentary he mentioned
Wol Euler: I gather he's English
Wol Euler: British, sorry.
Tarmel Udimo: smiles
Tarmel Udimo: humm he's the one that's pro-life
Wol Euler: yep
Gaya Ethaniel: We didn't provide a hot debate so he left it seems
Tarmel Udimo: ahhhhh
Tarmel Udimo: what you and wol were taking about sounded very interesting - to me anyway
Wol Euler: or perhaps we didn'T agree so he left.
Tarmel Udimo: hummm
Tarmel Udimo: its all about choices I think
Gaya Ethaniel: No I saw him debating away last time here with gusto
Wol Euler: abortion is a "hot" topic for nearly everyone
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: yes and if this is his 'calling card' then he will always be surrounded by conflict
Wol Euler nods. I think it is.
Gaya Ethaniel nods...

Snip, snip, snip.

Wol Euler: tarmel, are you moderating again?
Tarmel Udimo: that's fine with me and yet all we have really said is that abortion is a hot topic and if you are emersed in the pros and cons it will be naturally difficult which I think is treu and even samuel would agree
Gaya Ethaniel: btw do you want this candle on your table Wol?
Wol Euler: thank you, gaya, I'd be glad to have a copy
Gaya Ethaniel: :) will leave it there for you
Wol Euler: ty :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Tarmel Udimo: well I must go, are you both coming or will you be around after?
Tarmel Udimo: is that from your lessons gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: I need to go and do some RL
Gaya Ethaniel: well SL thingy
Gaya Ethaniel: Exhibition
Gaya Ethaniel: no I bought this one
Tarmel Udimo: what exhibition?
Gaya Ethaniel: Have you done any class?
Gaya Ethaniel: Adams's
Wol Euler: possibly not, tarmel. I'm feeling like going to bed earlyish.
Tarmel Udimo: okay then maybe later
Gaya Ethaniel: See you later
Tarmel Udimo: I'll IM you see if you're still up...
Tarmel Udimo: if not have a lovely sleep
Wol Euler: ok, thanks. take care
Wol Euler: gaya, goodnight, sleep well
Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Wol