2009.01.31 13:00 - Virtual violence

    Table of contents
    No headers

    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database and suggested a provisional title. Aurora was the guardian.

    Zen Arado: I saw somebody else using one
    Aurora Kitaj: Well I'm getting stressed out by my new digital camera in rl
    Aurora Kitaj: so don't think I could cope with a TV on sl
    Zen Arado: life is getting too technical
    Adelene Dawner snerks.
    Zen Arado: especially for us old folks!
    Adelene Dawner giggles at Squee.
    Zen Arado: in ZEn they say 'in the expet's mind there are few possibilites
    Aurora Kitaj: hate to admit it Zen, but for me it's so true
    Zen Arado: so cultivate a 'beginners mind'
    Zen Arado: you sure need it in SL!
    Zen Arado: have we a topic?
    Aurora Kitaj: Adelene, thanks for sitting so close to me. In rl it's so cold and you are keeping me warm ;)
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Zen Arado: how does having a fury avatar affect your real life persona?
    Zen Arado: maybe it doesn't
    Adelene Dawner: It does... but I tend to think in metaphors to begin with, so that's how it works for me.
    Zen Arado: or how does any avatar affect rl peresona?
    Adelene Dawner: (I have stuff to say on that but am in IM - one moment)
    Zen Arado: we all think in metaphors
    Zen Arado: I think
    Aurora Kitaj: Hi Scath
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Aurora:)
    Zen Arado: Hi Scath
    Aurora Kitaj: and welcome back Aisha
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Zen, Friend, Adekine:)
    Friend Oliva: Hi
    Aurora Kitaj: We are sort of talking about the problems with new technology
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, a perenial subject
    Zen Arado: sometimes I feel like giving up onit
    Aurora Kitaj: especially those experienced by those who maybe young at heart, but not so young in numbers
    Zen Arado: computers especially
    Zen Arado: so time consumimg just keeping them going
    Zen Arado: and trying to understand them
    Aurora Kitaj: like anything that has instructions in small text for me ;(
    Scathach Rhiadra: or the instructions are badly tanslated from chinese
    Zen Arado: I can't change the time on my watch without consulting the manual
    Adelene Dawner is out of IM now
    Zen Arado: yes and so complicated
    Aurora Kitaj: Friend, where are you with new technology?
    Aurora Kitaj: and Scath, how about you?
    Aurora Kitaj: Hi Nicholas, great to see you here ;)
    Zen Arado: Hi Nicholas
    Aurora Kitaj: Is this your first time at Play as Being
    Nicholas Hawthorne: hi
    Scathach Rhiadra: I find it ok, though rarely use manuals after I get the basics
    Friend Oliva: I'm asking myself, why they take so much of our time without giving much back
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Nicolas
    Scathach Rhiadra: I just use trial and error mostly:)
    Aurora Kitaj: Hi Poppie, come and take a seat
    Aurora Kitaj: nice of you to come and join us..
    Zen Arado: trial and error is dangerous!
    Aurora Kitaj: we're talking about new technology and problems using it
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Poppy
    Zen Arado: Hi Poppie
    Aurora Kitaj: or maybe if people find it easy, why?
    Poppie Sorbet: hi everyone x
    Aurora Kitaj: Hi Lefonz
    Scathach Rhiadra: true Zen, but if its works basically, I've sometimes found new functions by chance
    Zen Arado: Hi Lefonz
    Aurora Kitaj: Nice to see you again ;)
    Poppie Sorbet: will wait til everything has rezzed then have a seat
    Friend Oliva: Hello
    Aurora Kitaj: Come and take a seat
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz:)
    Fefonz Quan: hello everyone :-)
    Zen Arado: mobile phones ar beyond a large percentage of the population
    Zen Arado: they get children to set them
    Scathach Rhiadra: they are particularly difficult to understand:)
    Aurora Kitaj: Lefonz, we are talking about new technology, blessings and pitfalls ;)
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lag
    Fefonz Quan: thanks :)
    Poppie Sorbet: I dont think I could live without an internet connection now
    Aurora Kitaj: owner ship of movile phones has over taken the population
    Fefonz Quan: i can adopt it as my Franch version name
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Poppie Sorbet: can do without a mobile or phone
    Scathach Rhiadra: I can't imagine life without SL either:)
    Zen Arado: I find that if peope are too knowledgeable and geeky in here it creates a kind of class division
    Friend Oliva: I don't need TV
    Zen Arado: yes you get addicted
    Nicholas Hawthorne: life without sl would be so boring
    Nicholas Hawthorne: at least for some people
    Zen Arado: are we addicted?
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Aurora Kitaj: when it goes down, sl is hard to do without
    Aurora Kitaj: what could people do without?
    Scathach Rhiadra: well, I haven't turned on the TV for months
    Nicholas Hawthorne: i hate when there is a power outage, then there is really nothing to do, no TV, no Wii, no sl, or internet
    Fefonz Quan: well, till 4 months ago i've lived without SL and had no complaints...
    Fefonz Quan: (and havev not TV too)
    Scathach Rhiadra: but now Fefonz, would you give it up?
    Scathach Rhiadra: SL
    Poppie Sorbet: I dont watch tv...........unless it's a documentry
    Zen Arado: I watch the news
    Fefonz Quan: no, mostly four the great company :)
    Fefonz Quan: but it is just another way of communication
    Nicholas Hawthorne: hehe, the only channels i watch has to do with science, discovery communications, and nasa TV
    Aurora Kitaj: Sorry Fefonz, oops about getting your name wrong
    Zen Arado: big lag in messages!
    Zen Arado: some of them!
    Fefonz Quan: (It sounded nice Aurora, np :))
    Scathach Rhiadra: does NASA do TV?
    Zen Arado: tv is too passive for me now
    Aurora Kitaj: Probably
    Zen Arado: sl mad me realise how passive it was
    Nicholas Hawthorne: yeah, nasa does do TV, dish network is channel 213
    Aurora Kitaj: Hey, they do have some good documentaries on now and again
    Aurora Kitaj: you cannot deny that
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, ty Nicholas
    Zen Arado: you just sit there and take whatever they give you
    Adelene Dawner: "TV is like a really, really good screensaver"
    Zen Arado: ha ha
    Scathach Rhiadra: heh
    Nicholas Hawthorne: or watch it live on the internet >nasa.gov/nasaTV
    Friend Oliva: But TV can be very relaxing
    Aurora Kitaj: Someone told me sl was a screen saver yesterday
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol, well i've seen the login screen be a screensaver
    Fefonz Quan: sorry for the cliche, but i think we need to separate between the technology per ce, and the ways we are using it
    Nicholas Hawthorne: or a desktop picture
    Zen Arado: they spin the content out in documentaries though
    Fefonz Quan: cell phone is great when your car got stuck in the middle of the snow blizard
    Zen Arado: they make maybe 4 points and padd them out with fancy graphics
    Nicholas Hawthorne: zen not always, some documentaries are really well made, the show "Planet Earth" is an example
    Zen Arado: ok
    Aurora Kitaj: well in the really good ones that is not obvious (documentaries)
    Zen Arado: some of them are good
    Aurora Kitaj: anything by David Attenborough
    Nicholas Hawthorne: planet earth took 5 years to film, and alot of $
    Fefonz Quan: but cell phones are horrible when you need to hear on the bus about your neightbours last night adventures
    Poppie Sorbet: I Lurve David........
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol,
    Aurora Kitaj: David?
    Zen Arado: can you watch it anywhere?
    Aisha Heaney: david tennant?
    Aurora Kitaj: k
    Nicholas Hawthorne: watch what?
    Aurora Kitaj: lol
    Poppie Sorbet: am watching one on bbc tommorrow about darwin
    Aurora Kitaj: you a Dr Who fan Aisha?
    Aurora Kitaj: ^^
    Aisha Heaney: mmhmm
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, and somepeople seem to have to keep upgrading their phones all the time,when they can't even use them correctly
    Poppie Sorbet: Attenborough
    Nicholas Hawthorne: scrubs is a good show too,
    Zen Arado: i am too critical now
    Nicholas Hawthorne: who watches the daily show with jon stewart?
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, American?
    Fefonz Quan: yes, Scathach, and then they are into waisting a lot of money for nothing
    Zen Arado: I can't seem to immerse myself in dramas
    Aurora Kitaj: Oh yes, anyone use AIM? Sent 20 messages a day to the same person
    Zen Arado: talk show
    Aurora Kitaj: too much contact can be a bad too;)
    Fefonz Quan: Lost - my donation to the TV shows here, tough i watch in on the internet - does it count?
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol the daily show is so funny sometimes, that i laugh, and i'm not the kind of person who laughs out loud often
    Aisha Heaney: we use AIM
    Zen Arado: what about sport?
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, I loved Lost
    Aurora Kitaj: that's a negative lol
    Fefonz Quan: 5th season is on, and it is goood
    Aurora Kitaj: (sport)
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol the only sports i watch is what my dad watches
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Aurora Kitaj: Never seen Lost
    Zen Arado: season of what?
    Scathach Rhiadra: I might just have to turn the TV on for that:)
    Fefonz Quan: Lost
    Zen Arado: oh
    Aurora Kitaj: but know that it's addictivie
    Zen Arado: never seen it
    Nicholas Hawthorne: i've heard it's good, like one of those other shows, like survivor, or house or something
    Fefonz Quan: well, 50 minutes a week, how much harm can it be?
    Zen Arado: I watch soccer sometimes
    Aurora Kitaj: who do you support Zen?
    Zen Arado: Manchester United
    Zen Arado: of course :)
    Aurora Kitaj: :)
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Scathach Rhiadra: anyone use Twitter?
    Zen Arado: no
    Fefonz Quan: what is twitter?
    Poppie Sorbet: no
    Nicholas Hawthorne: nopew
    Friend Oliva: no, but what is it all about?
    Scathach Rhiadra: you have never heard of Twitter?
    Zen Arado: heard of it
    Friend Oliva: yes
    Aisha Heaney: we use twitter too
    Zen Arado: like Facebook?
    Aurora Kitaj: Yes, to all
    Nicholas Hawthorne: itsn't Twitter like facebook ,or myspace
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes like facebook, but much simpler
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Zen Arado: I use Facebook
    Aurora Kitaj: Me too
    Zen Arado: I can waste enough time with that
    Nicholas Hawthorne: anyone use skype?
    Zen Arado: yes
    Friend Oliva: no
    Fefonz Quan: non of the above, my true friends know how to find me :-)
    Zen Arado: but rarely
    Scathach Rhiadra: no
    Zen Arado: facebook is good
    Poppie Sorbet: I use facebook
    Nicholas Hawthorne: yeah it is good lol
    Zen Arado: like this in a way
    Scathach Rhiadra: I have a friend, here in SL, who joined twitter a while ago...
    Zen Arado: I can now post videos !
    Nicholas Hawthorne is about to kill the birds, becuase he is getting annoyed
    Scathach Rhiadra: now she must be 'tweeting' about 20 updates an hour
    Fefonz Quan: i relly like the birds :)
    Zen Arado: me too
    Zen Arado: crows though ?
    Nicholas Hawthorne: it's enough that it's a bird, it's a crow for goodness sakes!, i hate the sound of them
    Aurora Kitaj: Hello Tenk, nice of you to come ;)
    Zen Arado: harbingers of death haha
    Aurora Kitaj: We're talking about techno fear and all the good things it can do too!
    Aurora Kitaj: Come and take a seat
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tenk
    Friend Oliva: Hi
    Zen Arado: Hi Tenk
    Fefonz Quan: hi tenk
    Tenk Kidd: Hello all!
    Poppie Sorbet: Hi Tenk
    Fefonz Quan: i think tech is exactly like ny sharp kitchen knife
    Friend Oliva: Technology costs also a lot of money
    Nicholas Hawthorne: brb
    Fefonz Quan: as long as you know how to handle it, you won't get cut
    Friend Oliva: e.g. SL is for the First-World
    Zen Arado: yes
    Nicholas Hawthorne: bk
    Nicholas Hawthorne: brb again
    Aurora Kitaj: wb Nicholas
    Nicholas Hawthorne: afk
    Zen Arado: only Western nations in here
    Friend Oliva: Sometimes I feel ashame, when hearing
    Zen Arado: yes
    Fefonz Quan: yet, soemtimes it develops so fast, that the morals, socil behaviour and psychological sides are lagging behind tremendously
    Friend Oliva: that one avatar needs the current of an average
    Friend Oliva: Brasilien
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, but there are some efforts to distribute cheap computers to the third world, and get a lot of people online
    Scathach Rhiadra: so they can benefit from the internet
    Zen Arado: but slow
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Zen Arado: I have a friend lives in Tunisia
    Fefonz Quan: when i was in India, there were many internet coffee's around
    Zen Arado: cant get youtube his govt doesnt allow it
    Friend Oliva: >es, I know that from Peru
    Aurora Kitaj: are there many people from developing countires?
    Friend Oliva: there are also a lot of Internet-Cafes
    Aurora Kitaj: like africa, india and so on
    Zen Arado: there are rich people in India too
    Zen Arado: it is developing fast
    Zen Arado: and China
    Fefonz Quan: well, very few percentage
    Nicholas Hawthorne: bk, had to take the phone
    Zen Arado: admittedly
    Aurora Kitaj: Hi there Tarmel, nice to see you;)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel:)
    Aurora Kitaj: Please come and take a seat
    Zen Arado: Hi Tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: Hey tarmel, good to see you :)
    Nicholas Hawthorne: ow
    Tarmel Udimo: hello veryone
    Poppie Sorbet: Hi Tarmel
    Aurora Kitaj: Just whist we are talking about technology, can I mention that it seems that the younger generation often find it really easy
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Zen Arado: what generation is that Arora?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, they grow up with it
    Fefonz Quan: yeah, they would find it really hard to spend some days without a cell
    Aurora Kitaj: can I mention that I know that certain ppl here are
    Aurora Kitaj: brilliant at building on sl
    Zen Arado: I a few generations beyond them :)
    Aurora Kitaj: the most incredible structures like space ships
    Poppie Sorbet: yes, more difficult for us as we had to learn and adjust, they get taught stuff at school, most classrooms are interactive and computer based
    Tenk Kidd: One of the problems with web-based communities like SL is that Governments interpret it as a threat to their soveriegnty, which I find very odd as most manufacturing is done by multinationals.
    Fefonz Quan: who is the rocket engineer here?
    Tarmel Udimo: where can one see the space ships
    Zen Arado: they are afraid of new ideas Tenk
    Aurora Kitaj: Nicholas
    Scathach Rhiadra: they are afraid of loosing control
    Tarmel Udimo: like your feathers nicholas
    Zen Arado: people would see how muc freedom there is in other parts of the world
    Nicholas Hawthorne: thnxs lol
    Zen Arado: not me!
    Aurora Kitaj: believe
    Aurora Kitaj: Tenk it is Nicholas
    Zen Arado: I still dont know what I am doing
    Zen Arado: just muddle along
    Tarmel Udimo: can we ride in your space ships nicolas?
    Fefonz Quan: eah, me too :)
    Aurora Kitaj: nor do I most of the time Zen, just make it up as you go along
    Nicholas Hawthorne: um well,
    Zen Arado: yes
    Aurora Kitaj: giggles
    Nicholas Hawthorne: let me think
    Zen Arado: thats me all right :)
    Tenk Kidd: In SL, a design house for spaceships is Ananke
    Fefonz Quan: we can have group trips some times
    Nicholas Hawthorne: i would have to mod something to have all of you come to the space station at once
    Zen Arado: where do you go?
    Poppie Sorbet: How many poeple can fit in ur spaceshop?
    Nicholas Hawthorne: plus it's on a special sim lol
    Nicholas Hawthorne: well, i have ships that carry only 3, i have a ship that carries 10 but, will have to mod something to have you get out
    Nicholas Hawthorne: in "space"
    Aurora Kitaj: cool
    Tarmel Udimo: count me in
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Tenk Kidd: There is the old saying 'Knowledge is Power' - by controlling or diverting the spreasof knowledge, politicians can exert leverage on populations and become powerful themselves...
    Nicholas Hawthorne: i will have to do it fast lol
    Fefonz Quan: ah, space, if only we had the ability to teleport there ;-)
    Tarmel Udimo: I think religion used to hold power that way tooo
    Scathach Rhiadra: in some places it stilldoes Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: imagine not being able to read and write
    Zen Arado: yes
    Nicholas Hawthorne: well, i have the next best thing fefonz, i go to like 600 m up
    Tarmel Udimo: hey that sounds good
    Fefonz Quan: too low for space, the last time ive chaecked
    Zen Arado: You can't fly freely around SL though?
    Nicholas Hawthorne: and being up that high, if you stand up and i'm docking the ship, you fall
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Tenk Kidd: I think that is true Tarmel, sometimes by perpetuating ignorance and labelling it faith or virtue
    Nicholas Hawthorne: we are talking m here
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Fefonz Quan: yo, it might take longer trhan 9 seconds, this fall...
    Nicholas Hawthorne: hehe
    Zen Arado: can you kill an aavatar?
    Aurora Kitaj: hope not!
    Nicholas Hawthorne: 600 + m to 26 m
    Aurora Kitaj: ;)
    Scathach Rhiadra: I've fallen from 2000 m
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Aurora Kitaj: Scath takes the record
    Nicholas Hawthorne: what's the limit where you can edit a ship
    Tenk Kidd: there was recently a 'murder case' in japan in mapelworld
    Fefonz Quan: (me too, with a parachute)
    Tarmel Udimo: yes when more and more people were able to read that's when freedom began
    Zen Arado: yes
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Tarmel Udimo: mapelworld?
    Fefonz Quan: (land of the pancakes?)
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Nicholas Hawthorne: tha'ts maple
    Zen Arado: I heard someone went into a meeting and 'killed' the people there
    Tenk Kidd: I think it is called that - a play universe a little like SL
    Zen Arado: oh
    Tarmel Udimo: oh :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: but in japan
    Aurora Kitaj: you certainly learn a lot at PaB
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Nicholas Hawthorne: lol japan has alot of cutting edge stuff, i've heard somewhere that NYC is about 6 months behind japan when releasing new stuff like phones
    Zen Arado: yes
    Scathach Rhiadra: and what caused the murder do you know Tenk?
    Nicholas Hawthorne: 6 months is a long time to wait for a cutting edge technology
    Scathach Rhiadra: oops, missed your answer:)
    Aurora Kitaj: I heard today that there is a town where they sell every possible electornic device ... the whole town is given over to it
    Aurora Kitaj: saw pictures it's near Tokyo
    Tenk Kidd: The story was that a 'partner' who was suddenly 'divorced' logged in as their former husband and deleted his account (keep your passwords difficult to guess, people!)
    Tarmel Udimo: and then you have places like papanew guine where the have one mobile phone to an area and no service :-)
    Zen Arado: Ah
    Fefonz Quan: somehow i guess that if people hear coulc have weapons that kills, big wars at SL will start in no time :-(
    Scathach Rhiadra: mm, that is unfortunalely true
    Tarmel Udimo: it was weird someone showed up her with a machine gun a few days ago
    Tarmel Udimo: and it felt very weird
    Tenk Kidd: there are ways to disrupt an avatar, but it does not persist past a relog
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, I saw a SWAT guy here a while ago:)
    Tarmel Udimo: where you here too scath
    Aurora Kitaj: yes, seen that at sandboxes, guns being let off, nasty stuff
    Scathach Rhiadra: a few weeks ago?
    Fefonz Quan: SWAT?
    Tarmel Udimo: yeah maybe it was weeks not days :-)
    Zen Arado: some body ran over me with a tank in a sandbox
    Aurora Kitaj: OMG
    Zen Arado: didnt go there again
    Scathach Rhiadra: the american special services, or something like that
    Tarmel Udimo: so is a snadbox a play area
    Tenk Kidd: there are gaming zones where fighting is expected - you use a 'meter' to record heath - DCS2 is an example
    Fefonz Quan: what is SWAT?)
    Tenk Kidd: a sandbox is an area where 'anything goes' so you can build big stuff and test scripts safely
    Tarmel Udimo: i don't know why we are surprised, there must be an evolutionary button that gets switched on
    Scathach Rhiadra: SWAT is like a special police tactical service
    Zen Arado: for building
    Tarmel Udimo: thta means you are no longer attached to violent methods of communication
    Fefonz Quan: ah, ok, thanks Scath
    Scathach Rhiadra: just look at athe number of serious griefers around
    Tarmel Udimo: griefers?
    Aurora Kitaj: aren't there role play areas on sl where people us guns etc?
    Scathach Rhiadra: people who attack and disrupt other avatars
    Fefonz Quan: (so when you shoot someone you send him to third life? :))
    Scathach Rhiadra: haha
    Tenk Kidd: Yes there are RP areas which are violent. Ord Mantel is a SciFi one, for example
    Tarmel Udimo: if only fefonz and if only it happened in RL
    Aurora Kitaj: to be frank, guns on sl doesn't worry that much, problem is in rl where I live, knives and guns ;(
    Tarmel Udimo: RP?
    Scathach Rhiadra: role play
    Tarmel Udimo: ta
    Fefonz Quan: where is it Aurora?
    Aurora Kitaj: North East London (lots of stabbings in my area and gangs and guns)
    Fefonz Quan asks in order to take coutions
    Tenk Kidd: http://www.mahalo.com/Maple_Story_Murder the 'virtual Murder' story
    Tarmel Udimo: thnaks tank
    Zen Arado: ty Tenk
    Tarmel Udimo: tenk sorry
    Fefonz Quan: wow, and i thought london is a safe civilized city
    Zen Arado: It's funny I live in N.Ireland and it is relativesl peaceful
    Aurora Kitaj: Don't believe the PR, but for white middle class it pretty safe
    Zen Arado: we don't get stabbings much
    Scathach Rhiadra: we do in Dublin
    Friend Oliva: In Frankfurt it is peaceful
    Fefonz Quan: Great britain rules here i see :)
    Poppie Sorbet: OMG............cant beleive woman got jailed
    Aurora Kitaj: Poppie, I'm I being too down on our part of London?
    Fefonz Quan: (or should i say united kingdoms, no offense meant anyhow)
    Tarmel Udimo: reading about japanese women wow
    Scathach Rhiadra: ahem, Dublin is in Ireland:)
    Poppie Sorbet: No.............it is notoriously ruff!!!--lol
    Zen Arado: maybe you get more publicity there
    Zen Arado: I find the BBC tends to ignore the rest of Britain
    Zen Arado: south east is most important
    Fefonz Quan: yeah, i thought i missed that one... Sorry Scath
    Aurora Kitaj: Hate to say this, but get the impression women's low status in Japanese society is maybe part of the problem (this is a guess)
    Scathach Rhiadra: its possible
    Zen Arado: it is changing rapidly though
    Aurora Kitaj: Please tell Zen
    Zen Arado: manyy are getting divorces
    Zen Arado: there was a TV program a year or two ago
    Zen Arado: they won't put up with husbands who spend all their time at work and after drinking Sake
    Aurora Kitaj: I find Japan a ver ystrange country, it seems to break some rules
    Fefonz Quan: well,you can understand that
    Fefonz Quan: (to Zens message)
    Aurora Kitaj: first it is afluent, and yet women have until recently had low status,
    Aurora Kitaj: also it is perhaps the most technically advanced country in the world,
    Aurora Kitaj: doesn't make sense
    Scathach Rhiadra: it is also very 'insular'...
    Fefonz Quan: aer you expecting correlation Aurora?
    Zen Arado: old tradtions die hard
    Scathach Rhiadra: there is a huge japanes community here in SL, but they don't mix
    Aurora Kitaj: women are evidently as able as men to understand and develop technology and yet they are excluded in Japan?
    Fefonz Quan: maybe, but why should technology lead to equality?
    Aurora Kitaj: modernity = equality?
    Zen Arado: thanks for discussion
    Zen Arado: I have to go
    Aurora Kitaj: leaving behind old ideas?
    Zen Arado: bye
    Fefonz Quan: thanks Zen, :)
    Poppie Sorbet: Bye Zen
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Zen, namasté
    Friend Oliva: Bye Zen
    Aurora Kitaj: Zen thanks for you contributions
    Tarmel Udimo: thanks guys, I have to go too, but it was nice meeting some new people
    Tenk Kidd: I think there are difficult to understand cultural reasons for women not to enter technology as fully as men in Japan and in other cultures
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Tarmel, take care:)
    Tarmel Udimo: see you next time
    Poppie Sorbet: bye Tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: see you tarmel
    Aurora Kitaj: By Tarmel
    Aurora Kitaj: thanks for coming
    Fefonz Quan: i think there is no connection between technology, even modernity and morality
    Poppie Sorbet: am off as well................
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Poppie
    Tenk Kidd: Bye!
    Fefonz Quan: some of the worst regimes were quite advanced technologically and culturally
    Aurora Kitaj: Thanks for coming along and your contirbutions Poppie
    Aurora Kitaj: Great to see you ;)
    Fefonz Quan: bye Poppie
    Poppie Sorbet: bye everyone, it has been lovely...................
    Scathach Rhiadra nods @ Fefonz
    Poppie Sorbet: and you too Aurora, looking fab!
    Aurora Kitaj: Come again any time
    Aurora Kitaj: thanks
    Poppie Sorbet: will do x
    Aurora Kitaj: ;)
    Poppie Sorbet: bye Fefonz, Tenk, Scathach and friend
    Friend Oliva: good night
    Aurora Kitaj: Fefonz, that may very well be true, but seems to fly in the face of what were are all told
    Aurora Kitaj: that we must embrace change and modernity
    Fefonz Quan: so we should recheck all those tellings
    Aurora Kitaj: so equality is completely separate? I htough a just society would be a more afective society
    Fefonz Quan: free market, someone?
    Aurora Kitaj: its that ago old problem ;)
    Fefonz Quan: ego?
    Aurora Kitaj: maybe
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Fefonz Quan: age?
    Scathach Rhiadra: valuing the self above others
    Aurora Kitaj: feel like pulling Zen back for this ^^
    Aurora Kitaj: we were talking about exactly this not long ago
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I remember:)
    Fefonz Quan: if you could give us a link, it will be nice
    Aurora Kitaj: but I will not go away, will it
    Fefonz Quan: (reduce the chance we'll resay the same things)
    Aurora Kitaj: I have a note card, is that anygood, Zen sent to me today. We were talking about being clingy
    Fefonz Quan: (clingony?) :)
    Aurora Kitaj: I said I wasn't and he explained that he didn't say I was, he just wanted to talk about attachment
    Scathach Rhiadra: the chat log should be from this time Saturday a few weeks ago
    Aurora Kitaj: but not sure whether I should given he's not here to give his sayso
    Fefonz Quan: well if it's recordeed, you should feel free to summerize his ideas i guess
    Fefonz Quan: or summarize, ir you like)
    Aurora Kitaj: hold on
    Aurora Kitaj: please do
    Fefonz Quan: ?
    Aurora Kitaj: "In our view, "suffering" is (in a nutshell) mental resistance to what is, attachment to what is not. Thus, old age, sickness, physical pain and death are not "suffering" in a Buddhist sense if there is no resistance. Easiest example: If you are getting old, infirm and slowing dying ... but your attitude is to "go with the flow", embracing the change, being one with the process, allowing it all, being in each moment without thought of how things "could be better" or "should be some other way" ... then where is the suffering? "Pain", maybe, but "suffering" no. Or, if you are attached to a loved one who leaves or dies ... and you release the attachment (loving them when present, letting them go when they go), there is no suffering. Even if there may yet be some grief or sadness at the parting but (if one embraces the human condition of sometimes being sad too), there is no "suffering". Perhaps natural human "sadness", yes, but no "suffering".
    Tenk Kidd: Reads a bit like elements of Cognitive Behaviour Therapy...
    Fefonz Quan: very good old basic buddhism, long before the word cognitive was around
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Tenk Kidd: ah, I think they may have used different analogies, but to the same ends
    Aurora Kitaj: It touches on some of thoyes I can see why you would think that Tenk
    Fefonz Quan: it is very well said, Aurora, but can you help me see the connection to our last discussion?
    Aurora Kitaj: for me it does touch on some of those me society issues
    Aurora Kitaj: although it may not intend to
    Fefonz Quan: could you expand?
    Aurora Kitaj: this might be very simplistic, but if you accept suffering in yourself, should you also allow and or accept it in others? For me the answer is no,
    Aurora Kitaj: especially if i have a duty to care for someone like a child
    Aurora Kitaj: maybe I'm missing the point, but this philosophy misses out societies response to discress of attachment.
    Aurora Kitaj: sorry if I've got the wrong end of hte stick ;)
    Fefonz Quan: on one hand, there is the suffering of oneself, coming from craving and attachement,
    Aurora Kitaj: hmm
    Fefonz Quan: but on the other hand, buddhism put a lot into compassion
    Aurora Kitaj: listens
    Fefonz Quan: which is - caring for other and empathy like their suffering is yours
    Fefonz Quan: so in this percpective, benefiting yourself on the account of others is very wrong, aginainst all the profound teachings
    Aurora Kitaj: thank you Fefonz, that's much clearer
    Aurora Kitaj: I've just noticed the time
    Aurora Kitaj: sorry every one
    Aurora Kitaj: should have given people a time check at 2pm
    Scathach Rhiadra: thanks Aurora
    Aurora Kitaj: and i've let it drift
    Fefonz Quan: no problem, Aurora :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night, take care
    Aurora Kitaj: this has been so interesting for me
    Fefonz Quan: we are adult people,
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Tenk Kidd: empathy is not a simple concept, or a wholly emotionalone. I do not think it applies to groups of people either - itcan onlyarise within an individual
    Aurora Kitaj: thanks so much for staying etralong
    Fefonz Quan: thanks aurora :)
    Aurora Kitaj: yes Tenk
    Friend Oliva: Thanks
    Fefonz Quan: Tenk, coming to the bottom of it, every decision made by a society is made by individuals, at least the ones governing it
    Fefonz Quan: (governing - i meant leading)
    Friend Oliva: We are roled upon
    Aurora Kitaj: Well it's another beautiful evening here in sl, and we are far from the very real problems inthe world
    Aurora Kitaj: at the moment
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Tenk Kidd: I think you may be right Fefonz, but there is a tendency in every individual to abdiate their personal responsibility and take on the view of the geoup they are part of - be it mob, political party or religion - to 'fit in'
    Fefonz Quan: A very old jewish wise man, when asked to teach the whole Tora (the old tentimony) said: don't do to your friend what you wouldn't like be done to you"
    Aurora Kitaj: swallow the easy to understand 'world view'
    Fefonz Quan: Tenk, surely there are a lot of forces aroud us pushing us to do what's easy, accepted and popular instead of what's right
    Fefonz Quan: and i can think of some other problematic tendencies we have
    Aurora Kitaj: listens
    Tenk Kidd: I think people flock, shoal and swarm in very similar ways to birds, fish and insects when id comes to ideas - it just looks different
    Tenk Kidd: no man is an island
    Fefonz Quan: that's just another reason not to burn your bridges to the land, sin't it?
    Friend Oliva: I have to leave. I'm sorry, tomorrow is a working day for me.
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Friend ;)
    Aurora Kitaj: so therthanks so much for coming Friend
    Tenk Kidd: few people can survive in isolation from a community of some sort
    Friend Oliva: You all have a pleasent SL-Night!
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Friend
    Aurora Kitaj: bye
    Aurora Kitaj: thanks
    Tenk Kidd: Bye Friend :)
    Fefonz Quan: who suggested isolation?
    Aurora Kitaj: it's part of our learning to be with others survival strategy
    Tenk Kidd: the concept arose with the idea that an individual is ultimately responsible for his own actions - in some cases, that may not be possible
    Fefonz Quan: ultimately resposible - within the conditions around him. responsibility does not mean everything is possible, yet it means that you have a choice
    Tenk Kidd: individual choice can be savagely limited by societal setting
    Fefonz Quan: you act whithin society, you get good and bad influances- from TV, internet, etc - and then you choose
    Tenk Kidd: sonetimes the abrogation to society values rather than individual conscience is voluntary on the part of the individual
    Fefonz Quan: abrogation?
    Tenk Kidd: relinquishment of title or responsibility
    Scathach Rhiadra: is that no then how they make their choice?
    Scathach Rhiadra: not*
    Scathach Rhiadra: to ignore their conscience
    Tenk Kidd: It's a choice in advance - think hyppocratic oath for doctors, vow of chastity for monks,the king's shilling for the military...
    Scathach Rhiadra: but still a choice
    Scathach Rhiadra: every decision we make we have the choice
    Scathach Rhiadra: we may suffer for it, but it is still there
    Tenk Kidd: how do you go against an action - make a choice against a vow - once bound by it?
    Fefonz Quan: if you think remaining under the vow is against your morality - you can break it
    Scathach Rhiadra: you may lose your freedom, even your life, but the choice is still yours
    Tenk Kidd: have you ever been in that position?
    Scathach Rhiadra: no, and I hope to never be in that situation
    Scathach Rhiadra: but I still have to think about it
    Fefonz Quan: position of vowing?
    Tenk Kidd: acting in conscience against a vow given willingly
    Fefonz Quan: i don't take vows so often...
    Scathach Rhiadra: suppose in my work I am asked to do something which I think is wrong, maybe even illegall...
    Tenk Kidd: I think you might hhold with pride to quite a few, except you don'tthink of them that way
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must choose to act according to my conscience, and maybe riskk losing my job
    Aurora Kitaj: brb
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Tenk Kidd: KK aurora
    Scathach Rhiadra: I can try shifting the responsibility onto my employers, but it is stil my choice
    Scathach Rhiadra: how I act
    Tenk Kidd: I believe we have free will, but the range of that will can have limits which are not imposed personally
    Fefonz Quan: still within the limits the range is wide, and many times we stop way before we get to the real limit
    Tenk Kidd: otherwise we could have anarchy
    Tenk Kidd: Scathach, Fefonz, Aurora, I'm afraidI must ask you to excuse me - thank you for the chat :)
    Fefonz Quan: as a manager of a bank, i can raise my salary from 50 miillion to 55, or i can spread 5 million between my devoted employees
    Fefonz Quan: Bye tenk, thanks for the talk
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, good night Tenk, take care:)
    Aurora Kitaj: hello again
    Fefonz Quan: wb
    Scathach Rhiadra: wb Aurora
    Tenk Kidd: I hope to meet you again :)
    Aurora Kitaj: still going strong! Wow
    Aurora Kitaj: the debate really took off after the end of the session lol
    Tenk Kidd: I have to run Aurora!
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Aurora Kitaj: Bye Tenk
    Fefonz Quan: as happens often ;)
    Scathach Rhiadra: namasté
    Aurora Kitaj: Thanks so much for your contribution
    Tenk Kidd: Bye!
    Aurora Kitaj: speak soon
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, thanks for the discussion, it was good:)
    Aurora Kitaj: I have to go too now, but there is a small proble
    Scathach Rhiadra: oh?
    Fefonz Quan: Thanks Scath, Aurora :)
    Fefonz Quan: ?
    Aurora Kitaj: not sure how i@m going to get this up ont the wiki.. carefull editing lol
    Fefonz Quan: do you have the recor?
    Aurora Kitaj: summary of early debate probably
    Aurora Kitaj: everything
    Aurora Kitaj: yes
    Scathach Rhiadra: did you claim the record?
    Aurora Kitaj: yes, it's just the editing takes so long for me
    Aurora Kitaj: gets easier
    Aurora Kitaj: have to go back to storms advice
    Aurora Kitaj: have a good evening Scath and Fefonz and thanks you so much for
    Fefonz Quan: mostly cut and paste with some short remarks, isn't it?
    Aurora Kitaj: your contributions to the the discussion
    Aurora Kitaj: I heard that Fefonz ;)
    Aurora Kitaj: bye for now and thanks
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, good night Aurora, take care, namasté
    Fefonz Quan: Namaste :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: night Fefonz, namasté
    Fefonz Quan: (how do i put the apostroph above the e?)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, its the button 'Alt GR' +e
    Scathach Rhiadra: key*
    Fefonz Quan: great :)
    Fefonz Quan: Night Scatch
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core