2011.03.01 13:00 - Being alive in our lives

The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The photos are by Bruce Mowbray.

Archmage Atlantis: Hello, Bruce......Hello Sun
Sunshine Vayandar: Hi Arch, Bruce ;)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Arch and Sun.
Sunshine Vayandar: how are you both?
Archmage Atlantis: The equidistant formation, interesting
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe it feels like a game - like chess ...
Sunshine Vayandar: which pillow which pillowww
Bruce Mowbray: Pretty Good . . . but I just bought a program and am trying to install it -- and keep getting the message "You have to log in as administrator of this computer to install . . . "
Bruce Mowbray: and I am the ONLY person who uses this machine -- so
Sunshine Vayandar: ahh really
Bruce Mowbray: obviously, I should be an administrator, right?
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmm. . . .
Sunshine Vayandar: mmmm
Archmage Atlantis: It is Sun, yet it is not.......the goal is not to pin down the queen and to capture the king
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) Arch ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm you should be able to see that, Bruce
Sunshine Vayandar: I don't use Windows hmm
Sunshine Vayandar: under "users" may be
Bruce Mowbray: I found it -- np.
Sunshine Vayandar: u did?
Sunshine Vayandar: and what does it say
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
Bruce Mowbray: all is well now.
Sunshine Vayandar: ahh you installed
Bruce Mowbray: and back to PaB!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
Archmage Atlantis: It says....."you found me!"
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
Bruce Mowbray: I just had to click on "Run as an administrator" and it worked.
Bruce Mowbray: sorry for the delay.
Sunshine Vayandar: ahh ;)
Bruce Mowbray: whew!
Bruce Mowbray: What's happening in Africa and in Florida today!?
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe it feels so good when it works ;)
Archmage Atlantis: Politics?
Sunshine Vayandar: Africa is well - ...well the southernmost part is ok at least
Archmage Atlantis: or us in our locations
Archmage Atlantis: I'm hearing a song.......the first cut is the deepest
Sunshine Vayandar: North keeps having problems
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Brian!
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Brian ;)
Brian Roop: hi all
Brian Roop: waiting for rez-in
Sunshine Vayandar: Bruce is playing chess
Brian Roop: is he, now?
Sunshine Vayandar: yes he keeps moving his position on the board
Bruce Mowbray is trying to multi-task and not doing such a hot job of it.
Archmage Atlantis: Brian, are the supports on your arms reflections of the body in rl, or the spirit in this world
Brian Roop: ???
Brian Roop: Don't understand the question
Bruce Mowbray will be right back . . . .
Bruce Mowbray: afk
Archmage Atlantis: You come into the circle with braces on your arms, Brian
Sunshine Vayandar: ok Bruce
Brian Roop: ah, the crutches
Brian Roop: check the rl part of the profile
Archmage Atlantis: You come into the circle
Archmage Atlantis: that is what matters
Archmage Atlantis: ok, will
Bruce Mowbray has returned and is listening intently.
Sunshine Vayandar: wb Bruce ;)
Brian Roop: /wave
Archmage Atlantis: I didn't choose my path either
Brian Roop: none do
Sunshine Vayandar: who thought I'd be a white Zulu ;p
--BELL--
Brian Roop: hmmm
Brian Roop: are we addressing a particular question or issue today?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Bruce Mowbray: anything you like, Brian . . . or Sun. . . or Arch.
Bruce Mowbray: what is it, Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: What it means to be not 'perfect' according to the measure given to each of us.
Brian Roop: yes, what's it mean when we say "nobody's perfect"
Bruce Mowbray: what it means to be "not perfect" . . . . ?
Brian Roop: what is 'perfection' assumed to be when such a question is asked?
Archmage Atlantis: like a rolling stone
Bruce Mowbray: "according to the measure given to each of us . . . "
Brian Roop: like a rolling stone with a flat side?
Bruce Mowbray: Although I live within the perpetual notion of my own miserable imperfection. . .
Sunshine Vayandar: there is no such a thing really ....
Brian Roop: oh?
Archmage Atlantis: Stones with flat sides only seem to roll, imo, in major earthquakes
Bruce Mowbray: I also entertain the notion that evceryone and everything is perfect in its own right.
Brian Roop: would you like to trade legs?
Bruce Mowbray: I would like to trade LOTS of things. . . or rather, I used to feel that way.
Bruce Mowbray: Now I see my wounds a windows, sort of. . .
Brian Roop: hmmmm
Brian Roop: that resonates with me
Bruce Mowbray: although that's often hard to put into meaningful context.
Archmage Atlantis: If you mean me, Brian, no.......I have neuropathy in my arms and legs that will continue to worsen
Bruce Mowbray: When I was feeling suicidal -- several decades ago following a bloody divorce -- I used to fantasize that I could trade my life for someone's who was dying.
Archmage Atlantis: Understand
Bruce Mowbray: seems, however, that I'm stuck with the life I have -- for better or worse.
Brian Roop: afk
Archmage Atlantis: seems so
Archmage Atlantis: afk....break
Bruce Mowbray: sometimes a cool thing -- sometimes a downright DRAG.
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm sorry to hear you went through that, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Looks like it's just you and me and Blub and Mignon.
Bruce Mowbray: wanna dance?

Sunshine Vayandar: hehe why not!
Brian Roop: sorry had to take a rl phone call
Sunshine Vayandar: I see you - but not me
Sunshine Vayandar: np Brian ;)
Bruce Mowbray: I saw you dancing for a couple of seconds -- and got a photo of it too -- Then you suddenly stopped.
Bruce Mowbray: welcome back Brian.
Sunshine Vayandar: must be my connection
Brian Roop: reviewing the chat
Archmage Atlantis: Ok, just walking by the monitor, but standing up is useful to having one's sl feet above the ground
Brian Roop: not feeling so bad
Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Arch -- and will try it again -- with feet above the ground. . . ready, Sun?
Sunshine Vayandar nods
Brian Roop: have some neuropathy but it's not progressive
Bruce Mowbray: Great -- Here we go!
Sunshine Vayandar: yay I see it
Brian Roop: wackos on
Sunshine Vayandar: lol
Sunshine Vayandar: ;D
Sunshine Vayandar: that was great!
Brian Roop: whew
Brian Roop: wore me out to watch it
Sunshine Vayandar: when we started talking about perfection - I thought of my granddad who was a mathematician
Bruce Mowbray: Great! Got a couple more photos that time -- They will be in the wiki.
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Bruce Mowbray: it wore me out too, Brian!
Sunshine Vayandar: let me introduce you to my granddad
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully to Sun.
Brian Roop: Bruce is your granddad?
Brian Roop: oh
Sunshine Vayandar: this was when he was young

Sunshine Vayandar: he was an amazing person
Sunshine Vayandar: big inspiration to many
Brian Roop: he was a mathematician?
Archmage Atlantis: Ok.....looks like my mom
Sunshine Vayandar: yes
Bruce Mowbray: Hungarian, then?
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Wow -- Thanks for sharing that, Sun!
Archmage Atlantis: Determined, many would think of her as rigid......yet that rigidity was a product of loving those who would follow
Sunshine Vayandar: yes, László Kalmár (March 27, 1905 – August 2, 1976) was a Hungarian mathematician and Professor at the University of Szeged. Kalmár is considered the founder of mathematical logic and theoretical Computer Science in Hungary.
Sunshine Vayandar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Kalm%C3%A1r
Brian Roop: I've heard of him
Bruce Mowbray: Wow. . . .
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: no - really?
Sunshine Vayandar: wow ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: what did you hear?
Brian Roop: just that the name rings a bell
Archmage Atlantis: math, logic and computer science.............there is only one place this combination goes......philosophy
Brian Roop: I'm no mathematician
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Sunshine Vayandar: me neither
Brian Roop: but was a philosophy major
Brian Roop: never really did anything with it, though
Brian Roop: no higher studies
Sunshine Vayandar: but I found a quote from him - when he was talking about different levels of precision or perfection
Brian Roop: ah, let's hear it
Sunshine Vayandar:  "When I teach mathematics to somebody, he’s already standing at a certain degree of precision, maybe at a very low degree. He couldn’t get higher by the way that I call him idiot when he’s less precise; but I have to convince him that it’s worth coming up. Of course it’s worth only if he demands it. However, it doesn’t matter at all if one doesn’t have a demand on it; then we remain where we are…”
Brian Roop: mine were humble but hardworking
Bruce Mowbray: THANK YOU for sharing that quote, Sun!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
Archmage Atlantis: Brian, a seed is a seed till it sprouts, a sprout is a sprout till it puts down firm roots
Bruce Mowbray: I wish I could revere my ancestors more than I do. . .
Brian Roop: a lot to digest there
Brian Roop: seems to come down to expecting the best
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Brian. Seems that math is a sort of vertical ascent...  (like theology?)
Brian Roop: i find that expecting the best of people will get it
Bruce Mowbray: a quest for perfection -- as we were speaking of earlier?
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm theology?
Brian Roop: how so, Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: only in that both seem to seek perfection through ever-higher quests. . . and that might be the only similarity.
Archmage Atlantis: I have no idea what the best is........I do honor choice with better desire
Brian Roop: well any science is a quest for perfection of knowledge
Bruce Mowbray listens intently (again).
Brian Roop: sorting out the truth of things, building on that
Archmage Atlantis: Science, to me, is knowing that I've made my best guess, based on the facts my sensory inputs can accept
Sunshine Vayandar: I think it is natural to have the need to improve - build on the previous levels of knowledge
Brian Roop: so mathematical models can't be a basis for science?
Archmage Atlantis: I have a blog for you to read and comment on
Archmage Atlantis: Mr. Brian
Archmage Atlantis: Not written by me
Bruce Mowbray: "Beauty" seems to be a concept that is familiar and valid in both science and philosophy -- and in art, of course.
Sunshine Vayandar smiles at the little blue fish
Bruce Mowbray: yeah, Blub wanted to play with Mignon -- hope that's OK, Sun.
Brian Roop: big fish have little fish, and littler fish, to eat 'em
Archmage Atlantis: http://deathrant.net/2011/02/from-being-depressed-and-burnt-out-to-being-who-i-want-to-be-part-1/
Bruce Mowbray: and to play with them....
Sunshine Vayandar: yes he can visit anytime ;p
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Blub waves a fin to say he's happy.
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm ;)
Archmage Atlantis: Kindness is an element of us
Archmage Atlantis: We have to resolve it
Sunshine Vayandar: Blub seems like a friendly fish - I hope he is not gonna eat his friend
Archmage Atlantis: with this world and universe
Bruce Mowbray ponders "resolving kindness...."
Archmage Atlantis: Koya has never thought of consuming Blub
Bruce Mowbray: Blub is a VERY well-mannered fish -- and would NEVER eat his friends (and has no enemies . . . )
Archmage Atlantis: Yet she is a white tiger

Sunshine Vayandar feels relieved that the pets present - are peaceful ones
Bruce Mowbray: So, Arch, tell us more about "resolving kindness," please.
Archmage Atlantis: I apologize Bruce......the magic drifted
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, here's Boxy!
Sunshine Vayandar: meep!
Brian Roop: my bad, i brought up the fish-cannibal possibilities
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Brian Roop: hey boxy
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Alfred Kelberry: hi guys :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi boxy ;)
Archmage Atlantis: All possibilities exist
Alfred Kelberry: what's the topic?
Archmage Atlantis: Ignoring that some are not what we wish
Brian Roop: Arch I'm glad you found an integrating principle
Bruce Mowbray: Your choice of topics, Boxy.
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: We've been talking about mathematics, perfections, trading arms and limbs. . .
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Archmage Atlantis: is not being alive
Brian Roop: i think psychotropic drugs can only keep all the emotional tires from going flat at once
Alfred Kelberry: archy? can you elaborate, please?
Brian Roop: but happiness can come only in finding an integrating principle
Archmage Atlantis: Not really, listening to "banana man"
Alfred Kelberry: um, ok :)
Bruce Mowbray: Day-o, me say daaay-o~
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Brian Roop: oh the banana boat has come in?
Archmage Atlantis: 6 fooot, seven foot, eight fooot, bundch
Sunshine Vayandar: lol ;)
Brian Roop: look out for the tarantula!

Bruce Mowbray muses -- That always confuses Blub!
Alfred Kelberry: archy, it's actually a good point. do we feel ourselves 'alive in our lives'?
 Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Bruce Mowbray: Do we feel ourselves "alive in our lives...."?
Bruce Mowbray: Wonderful way of phrasing it, Boxy.
Brian Roop: I do
Alfred Kelberry: Archy gave me the idea :)
Bruce Mowbray: oh --[ reading back] -- THANKS, Arch -- I think you've just given me a title for the wiki.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Archmage Atlantis: When I am here, I am alive.......when I am with people I care about, I am alive......when my animals need me, I am alive
Bruce Mowbray: There are ways of thinking and ways of acting that do make me feel more alive -- and I tend to favor and to repeat those. . .  but sometimes they seem to become obsessions and/or addictions. . .
Alfred Kelberry: yes, it's probably like happiness. comes and goes.
Brian Roop: the need to be needed, that's a big one
Bruce Mowbray: so, I then search elsewhere for enlivening acts and ideas.
Bruce Mowbray: This "feeling alive" stuff can be quite precarious -- Some folks feel most alive when they are harming others. . . or riding roller coasters - - - or going to really scary movies.
Bruce Mowbray: Fear actually brings me down -- Enthusiasm brings me up.
Archmage Atlantis: You hit the nail on the head Bruce
Brian Roop: addictive behavior, as much as any
Bruce Mowbray: makes me feel most alive when I'm totally absorbed in something.
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm yes first one has to figure out - what is it that makes him/her feel alive - and then we try to repeat this through our lives
Bruce Mowbray: I think your grandfather understood what made him feel most alive, Sun.
Alfred Kelberry: Bruce, inspiration, it's best kind
Archmage Atlantis: The mix, learning what is, that is human.....
Sunshine Vayandar: he felt sooo lively to me
Sunshine Vayandar: he was always busy with a million things
Bruce Mowbray: ENTHUSIASM!
Sunshine Vayandar: and he loved jokes
Alfred Kelberry: it also takes courage sometimes to be alive
Archmage Atlantis: There are no entities that are evil in my cosmology
Bruce Mowbray: me neither, Arch.
Sunshine Vayandar: he was member of the Society of Rabbits - which was him and his friends - they called themselves "the rabbits"
Brian Roop: what do we make of those who are out to harm or destroy others?
Bruce Mowbray: "The Rabbits" -- wonderful!
Bruce Mowbray: We have compassion for their sad predicament, Brian -- and then we defend ourselves and loved ones against their harm.
Alfred Kelberry: interesting how we seem to associate busy-ness with liveliness, but can you feel alive being still in an empty room?
Archmage Atlantis: I cannot believe I am saying this, Brian, but what would Jesus do?
Sunshine Vayandar: depends on the person, boxy
Brian Roop: you've got your memories and your hopes in the empty room
Bruce Mowbray doubts that there really is such as thing as an "empty" room.
Alfred Kelberry: "the rabbits"? gangs of New York? :)
Bruce Mowbray agrees with Brian.
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe the rabbits usually played games under the table during boring meetings ;)
Alfred Kelberry: Brian, yes... those keep you wanting to be alive
Brian Roop: footsie?
Brian Roop: the game?
Sunshine Vayandar: no hmm what is footsie?
Brian Roop: heh heh
Sunshine Vayandar: they usually played mathematical games
Bruce Mowbray LOVES that image of mathematicians playing footsie under the table. . .
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: lol now tell me what is footsie
Alfred Kelberry: *touches sun's foot with his*
Sunshine Vayandar: I know what is footy
Bruce Mowbray: Footsie is when you wiggle your toes with someone else's toes. . .
Brian Roop: I've had a sheltered life
Sunshine Vayandar blushes
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Bruce Mowbray: haha!
Archmage Atlantis: footsie is toying with another's foot, leg, and as close as one can get to genitals
Brian Roop: Sun you've had a sheltered life
Sunshine Vayandar: ahh ok
Sunshine Vayandar: sheltered?
Brian Roop: don't know what footsie is
Bruce Mowbray: Sun, you can play footsie under the table with me ANY TIME!
--BELL--
Brian Roop: now bruce, behave
Alfred Kelberry: Brian, she's not an American :)
Archmage Atlantis: SILENT
Brian Roop: ah
Bruce Mowbray: sry folks, but i now must attend a working group meeting --
Bruce Mowbray: please carry on -- I've really enjoyed this session!
Bruce Mowbray: bye for now....
Alfred Kelberry: say hi, bruce :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)) byebyeee
Bruce Mowbray: May all of you walk in beauty and joy today!
Sunshine Vayandar: u2 Bruce take care ;)
Brian Roop: enjoyed the sessions, guys
Brian Roop: see you soon
Brian Roop: bye
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Sunshine Vayandar: meep!
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Alfred Kelberry: footsie meeper :)
Sunshine Vayandar: so what did you mean by 'sheltered'?
Archmage Atlantis: Sun, Boxy.... are you both able to stay a bit?
Sunshine Vayandar: yes
Alfred Kelberry: yea
Archmage Atlantis: ty
Alfred Kelberry: Sun, meaning "how come you don't know what footsie is, you must have been living in a cave!" :)
Sunshine Vayandar: lol well footsie is just a word hehe
Sunshine Vayandar: and it's in English
Alfred Kelberry: well, he was joking :)
Alfred Kelberry: ok, I'll sit closer to you :)
Sunshine Vayandar: thinks back at her times when she was playing footsie ;)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: not anymore? :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm hmmm
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: sorry, was answering Adams
Sunshine Vayandar: we are gonna do interviews
Archmage Atlantis: Boxy. you remind me of a younger man who used to be a friend
Alfred Kelberry: interviews?
Alfred Kelberry: archy :)
Archmage Atlantis: Sun, you are quite a spark
Sunshine Vayandar: me? in what sense?
Sunshine Vayandar: is that good or bad? hmm ;p
Sunshine Vayandar: interviews with guardians
Alfred Kelberry: spark of south African vigor :)
Sunshine Vayandar: for the chronicles
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Alfred Kelberry: chronicles?
Sunshine Vayandar: well SA is a fascinating place
Archmage Atlantis: Good and bad are relative terms.....used to judge
Alfred Kelberry: never heard of it
Sunshine Vayandar: it's on the wiki
Alfred Kelberry: ah
Alfred Kelberry: so, can i be present?
Alfred Kelberry: when is it?
Sunshine Vayandar: present?
Alfred Kelberry: yes, during the interviews
Sunshine Vayandar: ah the interview?
Sunshine Vayandar: sorry I am not focusing lol
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Archmage Atlantis: I have to go line dance in a country bar
Archmage Atlantis: later
Alfred Kelberry: ah, neat, archy
Sunshine Vayandar: ah again Arch?
Alfred Kelberry: enjoy
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Sunshine Vayandar: have fun ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: you could also try footsie!