The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Continued conversation and exploration of Pema's book, "Exploring the Magic of Time."

Eliza Madrigal: something you said yesterday has stayed with me, Ya...
Eliza Madrigal: it has to do with the topics here too but I wonder if I can condense it before the session begins...
Eliza Madrigal: you basically said that even fashion topics are interesting here because of the wider contenxt of mindfulness...
Eliza Madrigal: like those things become mindful because of the environment they live in :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine :D
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey maxine
Maxine Walden: hi, Eliza, and Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: oops... too early for a martini... better detach this :D
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
Maxine Walden: :))
Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey pema

--BELL--
Pema Pera: Hi Maxine, Eliza, Yaku!
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i you would live in germany eliza, i would propably have asked you if you still drink the leftovers from ,,weiberfastnacht"
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth :))
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey druth
druth Vlodovic: hey all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Maxine Walden: hi, Bruce
Maxine Walden: hi, druth
Pema Pera: Hi Bruce! and hi Druth!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning-day, everyone!
Eliza Madrigal: hah, Yakuzza, you'll have to help me figure out what that means soon
Pema Pera: I very much enjoyed reading the reports, on http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2011%2F%2F03%2F%2F04:_Reports
Pema Pera: hi Bleu!
Maxine Walden: yes, very interesting
Maxine Walden: hi, bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone
Pema Pera: so nice to see the enormous variety of expressions
Maxine Walden: indeed
Eliza Madrigal: yes really enjoyed the reports this week... seemed to feel immersed in everyone's conveying of their experience
Pema Pera: and Bleu, what a great picture you included in last week's log, at the start !!!
Bleu Oleander: oh ty!
Pema Pera: it could be the logo of the Time sessions as a whole
Bleu Oleander: sure
Maxine Walden: wonderful thought
Pema Pera: and thank you again, Bleu, for taking the chat log!
Bleu Oleander: sure, happy to
Pema Pera: wonderful poem about verbs and process and whispers, Maxine -- do you remember who it is by?
Maxine Walden: oh, it came my way, my own...
Eliza Madrigal: Nice!!
Pema Pera: oh !!!
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: wow, how nice -- I thought you had picked up some half-forgotten classic :-)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Maxine Walden: :))
Bruce Mowbray: "curled" her way. . . I think she said.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Maxine Walden: yes, it felt that way....
Pema Pera: ah, but most of my poetry books have pages that tend to curl, Bruce :-)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-) Mine too!
Maxine Walden: hahaha, yes, know that sense of curing as well!
Maxine Walden: curling...myabe curing...
Pema Pera: curing too!
Maxine Walden: maybe
Pema Pera: "the noun-based us" really struck me
Maxine Walden: !!!
Pema Pera: curing our nouns . . . .
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: setting them in motion again
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods... and the sense of the essence of verbal thought...
Pema Pera: hi Adams and Darren!
Darren Islar: hi everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Darren, Hi Adams :)
Maxine Walden: nouns that chunk up space...and time...
Bleu Oleander: hi Darren, Adams :)
Bruce Mowbray: Naming things (identifying them with nouns) iinvests them with affective "realness."
Maxine Walden: hi, Adams, Darren
Bruce Mowbray: *invests.
Adams Rubble: Hello Everyone :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Adams, Darren.
Darren Islar: (sorry to be late)
Pema Pera: readding Riddle rattled my mind :-)
Maxine Walden: me too, a bit
Maxine Walden: assumed it to be a bit of riddle's space ship...
Pema Pera: beyond prose and poetry, the page seemed alive :)
Maxine Walden: hmmm
Bruce Mowbray thinks he will Play as Riddle today. . .
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: both dance nicely with a line of yours Pema, of 'reading my presence like a book'
Bruce Mowbray: Can I read my presence right here and now as a book? Can I see space as the canvas on which my life is painted, moment by moment, in flowing patterns?
Bruce Mowbray: -Pema quote
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bruce, yes really seemed an invitation
Pema Pera: and your invitation, with that gorgeous photograph, enlarged the notion of doorway . . . . it really spoke to me, Bruce!

--BELL--
Maxine Walden: I really loved your musings, Bruce, along with the photo
Bruce Mowbray: ty --- still working on that one.
Pema Pera: and yes, my "space of spaces", Longchenpa's "basic space", Tarthang Tulku's Great Space in TSK, they all point to something very similar
Pema Pera: as you guessed, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: so glad that I've read that book -- and am now re-reading it, Pema.
Pema Pera: (and yes, a train station is a wonderful kind of wide doorway)
Bruce Mowbray: "a dorrway to dorrways"
Pema Pera: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: *doorway.
Maxine Walden: :)), maybe dorrway is a new doorway
Darren Islar: :)
Pema Pera: an "open window" (if you're a bird)
Bruce Mowbray: an opening to openings --
Bruce Mowbray: I felt reverberations of the "kire" in haiku poetry --
Bruce Mowbray: that brief stop -- that makes everything that follows possible and meaningful...
Bruce Mowbray: Space.
Pema Pera: talking about windows, I enjoyed Eliza's sun-flower dialogue (or lack thereof)
Pema Pera: yes, Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: Imagine sunshine coming through a window where a plant grows. The sun is not saying, “Please open the window. I need permission to talk to the flower. Maybe the flower does not want me to shine on it.” The sun has none of those doubts, nor does the flower. - Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
Darren Islar: :)
Maxine Walden: yes, Eliza, your piece evoked gentle sunny space(s) for me, thank you
Eliza Madrigal: beautiful poem shared by Tenzin Wangyal... seemed to light up the underlying spacious context unhindered by the glass ....
Pema Pera: the "maybe not" reminds me of the "yes, but" :-)
Maxine Walden: :)
Eliza Madrigal: it als reminded me of the poem... (hafiz?) 'the sun never says to the earth, you owe me...
Pema Pera: (in the ordinary sense, not in the enlarging sense that we have also used the "yes, but" in)
Bruce Mowbray: I felt so much "Threshhold" in this week's explorations -- going to the edge, the "boundary" -- into liminal space...
Pema Pera: !!
Bleu Oleander: are we always at the edge?
Maxine Walden: or Aren't we always at the edge?
Bleu Oleander: :)
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: we're certainly always at the edge of time . . . .
Bruce Mowbray: We might always be there, but mind plays its security games -- rushes back to "safety" of familiar habits and "truths."
Maxine Walden: Maybe it depends upon where we 'live'...
Bruce Mowbray: For me, staying at the Edge -- where life really is -- takes some effort and deliberate choice.
Darren Islar nods
Maxine Walden: at the edge of the new, with curiosity and exploration or back with familiar security of the known
Bruce Mowbray: Pema's exploratioons invite us to make that effort.
Bruce Mowbray: *explorations.
Pema Pera: can you say more about the sense of effort that is involved, Bruce?
Pema Pera: how does that feel?
Pema Pera: like pushing something?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, yes. . .
Bruce Mowbray: This week (as my report tells) I found it difficult to "remain" at the edge...
Bruce Mowbray: It was overwhelming - in a way.
Bruce Mowbray: So I retreated into the safety of more familiar "spaces..."
Bleu Oleander: the edge is home for me ... the edge makes me who I am
Bruce Mowbray: where phenomena continued to present themselves, of course.
Bruce Mowbray: But was no longer vulnerable to the "unknowns" of the space of all spaces...
Pema Pera: but if you look closely, does it really require effort to stay at the edge -- or do you allow the usual effort to retreat to kick in?
Bruce Mowbray: (not syaing this very well, I'm afraid).
Pema Pera: you're doing great, Bruce!
Pema Pera: we *think* we need effort to be really alive, but is that true?
Pema Pera: perhaps that is the mistake of all mistakes!
Darren Islar: I think you said it very well Bruce, I recognize it very much
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps it's more like the "effort" required to give up an addiction -- a habit.
Darren Islar: from where I stand Pema, yes
Bruce Mowbray: It is the effort of "NOT" doing the old stuff. . .
Darren Islar: from a contextual point of view, I should say no
Pema Pera: what kind of effort is that, Bruce, can you "try" it right now, and compare it with pushing or doing the dishes, etc?
Darren Islar: right Bruce
Eliza Madrigal appreciates your letting us into the 'work' Bruce... feels like an open door to a garage in a way :)
Darren Islar: and to allow you to feel vulnerable

--BELL--
Pema Pera: shall we all try to try to relax with effort, during the next 90 sec break :)
Bruce Mowbray relaxes into the non-effort suggested by Pema. . . for this drop.
Maxine Walden: (our space for contemplation continues, perhaps)
Bruce Mowbray: When we do this contemplation - the "Broad Allowing" of phenomena, it is important not to fall into the "drama" of giving nouns to all of our "dramas" - - -
Pema Pera: :-)
Maxine Walden: :), so agree, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Just let each phenomenon present -- no naming -- no dramas around it. . . Giving it "broader space."
Bleu Oleander: so much of the effort to be alive is nonconscious ... homeostatis is a huge effort .... can relax knowing that I don't have to think about it consciously ... no nouns needed
Pema Pera: and does it feel like the "giving space" requires effort, Bruce, or is it something else perhaps?
Pema Pera nods at Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: It is like relaxing into the arms of a lover's embrace.
Maxine Walden: :), Bleu
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: that doesn't sound like it requires too much effort, Bruce :-)
Maxine Walden: :))
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: (unless you're phobia about embraces....)
Pema Pera: so why does it often *feel* like effort, if it isn't?
Bruce Mowbray: *phobic.
druth Vlodovic: the effort would be in denying the tendedncy to fight against doing it
Pema Pera: would effort help in denying?
Eliza Madrigal: "Open space cannot be perceived by otherwise at all." (from Eos's report snealkily posted right now) hehe...
Pema Pera: (and sneakily post-dated to yesterday :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: humorous efforts
Bruce Mowbray: Part of the "effort" is the decision to "drop" (as Pema did at his desk this week) and actually do the exploration. . .
Bruce Mowbray: even though the exploration is [theoretically] effortless.
Maxine Walden: perhaps part of the 'effort' derives from some edge of anxiety...which may occur when we are not fully attentive to that space
Eliza Madrigal nods

Pema Pera: could "watching" replace "effort" and be just as effective, or more? -- and could watching go beyond effort? (just poking in the dark :-)

Bruce Mowbray: The choice to 'drop' and enter the spacious doorway of effortlessness . . take a wee effort, I think.
Eliza Madrigal: one night we called that something like forcing the rock off a well...
Pema Pera: if you carry a heavy weight, Bruce, and you decide to drop it, what requires effort: holding on to it or dropping it?
Eliza Madrigal: the effort is driven by knowing something is there underneath...
Eliza Madrigal: so not so effortful
Pema Pera: it takes the effort of opening your hands :-)
Pema Pera: that's all
druth Vlodovic: to allow an embrace by something not defined as benign, not limited and shaped by our desires
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Pema Pera: nice, druth!
Pema Pera: allowing, letting go . . . .
Pema Pera: setting free
Pema Pera: shall we try, in the next 90 sec break, to see whether we can allow and set free without effort?
Darren Islar: if you're used to keep the hand closed all the time, it can be painfull to open it

--BELL--
Pema Pera: yes, but it is not clear that effort can help with the pain
Bruce Mowbray: we can assist each other in the opening of "hands."
Darren Islar: no, but pain doesn't 'help' effort either
Bruce Mowbray -- WOW. . . had no idea I was holding that much tension in my physical hands.
Darren Islar: nice suggestion Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: great just to relax them.
Darren Islar: :)
Maxine Walden: a certain amount of tension can feel affirming, grounding, as if embodying 'strength'...
Maxine Walden: but when we let that tension go, maybe we feel the gentler strength beyond...
Bleu Oleander: opening hands seems like no effort at all ... I'm painting my house today ... that's effort :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Maxine Walden: :), bleu
Bruce Mowbray: Is "the gentler strength beyond" the same thing as Basic Space. . . ? because it sure feels like that to me.
Darren Islar: our muscles always keep a certain tone, even if we relax completely; the tone is the structure we need to be alive
Pema Pera: surely is connected, I think, Bruce
Darren Islar: hehe Bleu :)
Maxine Walden: that was my thought as well, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: ty.
druth Vlodovic: perhaps the gentler strength beyond is simply our own strength freed up from defence
Pema Pera: watching a really experienced older tennis player play a younger energetic but less experienced player is a great illustration of the limitations of effort
Bleu Oleander: :)
Pema Pera: (and yes, Druth!)
Bruce Mowbray decides to put some 'effort' into de-nouning "Basic Space. . . and just let it be itself.
Bruce Mowbray: falling into its embrace, as it were.
druth Vlodovic: "no-effort"
Adams Rubble relaxing in the embrace of your company today making no effort to speak :)
Maxine Walden: :), Bruce, such a soft embrace
Eliza Madrigal: :) Adams
Darren Islar: :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Maxine Walden: :) Adams
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Bruce Mowbray: "Nobody - not even the rain - has such small hands." -- e e cummings
Pema Pera: a very gentle session, it feels like
Darren Islar: hehehe I make no effort to speak either, it just happens :))
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: emails just happen . . . I know the feeling
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bleu Oleander: (wishes houses just got painted)
Maxine Walden: :)) bleu
Darren Islar: :)
Bruce Mowbray ponders the "non-effort" in making email filters. . .
Darren Islar: :)) Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: ;-) --- sry, just playing. . . . The wee effort that makes larger efforts not needed.
druth Vlodovic: "With every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. Find the fun and snap! the job's a game!"
Darren Islar: hi Lucy :)
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Lucy!
Maxine Walden: afraid I have to go...lovely discussion
Eliza Madrigal smiles @ Druth
Pema Pera: hi Lucy!
Maxine Walden: see you all next time...
Yakuzza Lethecus: morning lucy
Adams Rubble: Hello Lucinda :)
Bruce Mowbray: I also need to go. THANK YOU ALL so much.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Maxine, thanks :)
druth Vlodovic: lol, sorry, I was thinking that about bleu's painting job, but it could be applied here as well
Maxine Walden: bye for now
Lucinda Lavender: goodmorning all:)
druth Vlodovic: bye all
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bruce, Morning Lucy :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye maxine and all leavers
Darren Islar: Bye Bruce :)
Pema Pera: thank you all for such a lovely session!
Eliza Madrigal: a spoon full of sugar, druth :)
Adams Rubble slips away as well. bye everyone :)
Darren Islar: bye Pema :)
Pema Pera: c u soon
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema and Adams and druth
Darren Islar: bye who's going :)
Bleu Oleander: bye all
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu happy painting :)
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Bleu Oleander: looking forward to it :)
Bleu Oleander: haha
Eliza Madrigal: haha