The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden. 

This meeting began with conversation which when directed to drop the noise at the pause turned to themes of norms, judgment, capacity to bear difference. We then, encouraged by Pema, tried to look at our judgments during the pause. The results were interesting...the conversation continued...extending nearly to the two hour mark.

Maxine Walden: hi, Korel
--BELL--
Maxine Walden: Not sure we have met, Korel, have you been to these meetings before?
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Maxine Walden: hi, Rhi
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Korel Laloix: Yes, been here several times.
Korel Laloix: And my old AV Freud Jungsten.
Korel Laloix: wow laggggg
Maxine Walden: ah, :)
Korel Laloix: Relogging.... back in a min.
Maxine Walden: Care to join the circle, Rhi? Happy to have you sit with us
Maxine Walden: not at all, Rhi. You are fine where you are, but wanted to invite you closer if you wished to come.
Maxine Walden: :)
Maxine Walden: no you are a quarter turn away, if you turn a quarter turn to your left you will be facing the circle
Maxine Walden: hi, Korel, again
Maxine Walden: ah, OK, Rhi, no problem for us, and we can hear each other
Korel Laloix: ON a text viewer?
Maxine Walden: Are you asking if we are in text, Korel? I meant with Rhi, that we could 'see' each other (hear in that sense)
Maxine Walden: be in touch...be text, that is what I meant to convey
Maxine Walden: but I could have been more clearer
Korel Laloix: Oh, I though Rhi just was on a text viewer so could not move.
Korel Laloix: But I missed the first part of hte chat....
Maxine Walden: maybe you'd like to ask her, Korel
Korel Laloix: lol.... OK.
Korel Laloix: Oh OK.
Korel Laloix: I use metabolt when my lag is silly.
Korel Laloix: That is a silly feature.
Korel Laloix: Not sure the reason for it.
Korel Laloix: Not tried that one yet.
Maxine Walden: As we are trying to keep in mind the practice of 'explorations of reality' I am wondering, even with tech issues, if we would like to do that with the next pause at 15 min after the hour, a 90 sec pause in which we let whatever 'noise' we might be experiencing go and see 'what else is there'.
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Maxine Walden: hi, Alfred,
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Maxine Walden: about to have a pause and suggesting we let the 'noise' go and see what else we might perceive
Pema Pera: Hi Maxine, Alfred, Korel, Rhiannon!
Maxine Walden: hi, Pema, we are in a pause...letting things go
Alfred Kelberry: pema-san! :)
Maxine Walden: For me, the first pause is often a letting go of the noise of the moment...to see what else is there, what else is true...
Maxine Walden: Others' experience?
Pema Pera: sometimes the noise itself turns into something else . . .
Pema Pera: hi Wol!
Maxine Walden: :)
Wol Euler: good evening everyone
Wol Euler: sorry I'm late
Maxine Walden: hi, Wol
Korel Laloix: ciao
Maxine Walden: good to see you, Wol
Wol Euler: likewise :)
Maxine Walden: :)
Alfred Kelberry: another lovely dress, woly :)
Wol Euler: thank you :)
Alfred Kelberry: valentine's? :)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Maxine Walden: :) very nice
Maxine Walden: I am also thinking of the nearly three years since PaB started....how much change (and at times it may seem no change) has occurred in people's practice
Pema Pera: a lot changed for me . . . I've learned so much :-)
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: definitely.
Maxine Walden: :), me as well
Wol Euler: erm, RL calls, brb
Korel Laloix: It helps my English a lot.
Pema Pera: appreciating diversity has been one big point for me :)
Korel Laloix: And educational.
Maxine Walden: yes, Pema and yes, Korel. Always humbling how much diversity and how many 'languages' there are beyond our awareness
Maxine Walden: wb, Rhi
Pema Pera: yes
Maxine Walden: Pema, any specific experiences re diversity you would care to share?
Korel Laloix: But it is skewed to wealthy and white it seems to me.
Pema Pera: what I like most about the "way of PaB' that has developed in our community is the way we rarily confront each other's positions, but rather ask "can you say more" . . . .
Korel Laloix: THat is nice.
Pema Pera: often when we initially feel we disagree, it often boils down to using different words
Pema Pera: different angles
Wol Euler nods.
Pema Pera: perhaps even really different ideas, but they often can be complementary
Maxine Walden: agree, and then the 'differences' fade
Pema Pera: when delving deeper into them
Pema Pera: or the differences become ornaments
Korel Laloix: Very different than places like philosophy house which is mostly just insuling each others thoughts. lol
Maxine Walden: towards more unity rather than sharp differences...
Wol Euler: yep
Pema Pera: hahaha @ Korel
Wol Euler: it seems to me that we strive for common ground, whereas philosophers attempt to cut each other off from the group
Korel Laloix: Yes, but that might be not the normal.
Maxine Walden: If one's truth must be defended as the only Truth, it makes for a different atmosphere from 'common ground'
Pema Pera: curiosity and appreciation of different angles seems to drive us
Maxine Walden: humble in the face of all we do not know allows us to be curious and nourished by differences rather than defensive
Pema Pera: and most of the time we don't even notice, until someone drops by who has a more "normal" arguing style :-)
Wol Euler sighs.
Wol Euler: erm, that shou.ld have been a smile. Damn these gestures.
Pema Pera: so we should be grateful to them !
Maxine Walden: :))
Maxine Walden: another pause coming up soon...
Korel Laloix: Yes.... but wher I live, I find far more white people in SL than in RL.
Korel Laloix: As a proportion.
Wol Euler: invite them to join us
Korel Laloix: And most folks in SL have high speed internet.
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: *wrinkles his nose* :)
Wol Euler sighs.
Wol Euler smiles.
Maxine Walden: :)
Korel Laloix: But my experience base is admitidly not the norm either..... lol
Alfred Kelberry: i think a lot of sl residents can say that, korel :)
Maxine Walden: In our individual experience we may not feel 'normal', and to be able to accept our individual views, not to feel cast out ourselves may be important
Alfred Kelberry: sl in itself is a rather abnormal experience :)
Korel Laloix: Statistically speaking, I am way out of the norm.. and I Have no issues with that... just funny the reactions I get here.
Alfred Kelberry: what makes it so... peculiar :)
Wol Euler: may I play the pedant and ask whether we really mean abnormal (not normal) or unusual (not the average)?
Maxine Walden: if we can feel a quiet acceptance of ourselves we may then be able to be open to all the new, different with curiosity
Wol Euler: I think SL is quite normal but far from the social average
Korel Laloix: SL does change things a bit.
Alfred Kelberry: woly, i mean abnormal in relation to a norm of majority that considers sl a silly game at best :)
Wol Euler: as opposed to, say, watching TV every night until you fall asleep in your armchair, like the guy across the street?
Wol Euler: gods save me from that normality
Korel Laloix: I am trying to put that into words.
Maxine Walden: Wol, normality as mindlessness?
Alfred Kelberry: woly, there's no judgment in my description. just words :)
Wol Euler: your words clearly suggest a judgement on the part of others
Wol Euler: (alf)
Alfred Kelberry: maxine, normality as an opposite of abnormality
Wol Euler: normality as passive consumption in this case
Wol Euler: we are at least creating a conversation
Wol Euler is talking too much and will shut up for a while.
Alfred Kelberry: pema is suspiciously quiet today :)
Korel Laloix: lol
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Pema Pera not having a strong opinion about normality :-)
Maxine Walden: Are we perhaps focussing on one level of concern, 'normality' because it can stir emotions about polarization, but that such may screen our looking beyond ourselves as our practices often intend to do?
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: strong opinions attract strong opposition
Alfred Kelberry: i like pema's approach :)
Pema Pera: but I appreciate Wol's point about hidden judgments . . . that happens all the time
Pema Pera: we can observe them in the 90 seconds -- here is an exploration: count the number of judgments you make in 9 seconds (or if you are brave, in 90 seconds)
Wol Euler smiles.
Alfred Kelberry: i suppose one could call any statement a form of judgment
Pema Pera: well, you can taste it if you look carefully, Alf
Maxine Walden: might be an interesting practice for the next pause, Pema
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Pema Pera wondering whether he has enough fingers and toes to count . . . .
Pema Pera: perhaps use my teeth too?
Maxine Walden: :))
Wol Euler: :)
Pema Pera: or hair?
Alfred Kelberry: if it's like tasting an apple pie, i'm for it :)
Korel Laloix: Here is a not so judgemental forum, but other places in SL are very confrontational.
Wol Euler nods.
Alfred Kelberry: judgments in 9 sec... interesting
Maxine Walden: folks defending their turf, Korel?
Pema Pera: but yes, Alf, there are gradations -- any form of conceptual thinking is ultimately jdugmental
Pema Pera: delineating
Korel Laloix: That and people demanding you fit their expectations.
Maxine Walden: thought includes and in its dilineation excludes
Alfred Kelberry: pema, what's your count of judgments for 9 sec? :)
Pema Pera is waiting for the pause to start counting
Alfred Kelberry: *feels being competative*
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: Back in a bit.... darn RL.
Alfred Kelberry: 4
Alfred Kelberry: did i win? :)
Maxine Walden: :))
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Wol Euler: everybody won, alf.
Alfred Kelberry: yay! :)
Maxine Walden: winners but no losers, Wol?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: because the contest is against yourself, and the prize is you.
Maxine Walden: Oh, lovely thought,'the prize is you' Wol
Wol Euler smiles.
Alfred Kelberry: tulips on my table helped me to steer my mind into non-judgmental state :)
Pema Pera: for a few seconds silence, then a whole tumble of thoughts, ideas, each with little judgment hooks, then quieter again, then a HUGE judgment about something that happened earlier today, then many ripples and murmerings about ideas and suggestions . . . impossible to keep track off in detail.
Maxine Walden: Perhaps self-conscious about not judging I felt my mind drawn away from clear, delineated thought, but then I began to feel sleeping
Wol Euler: I remembered a case of rather harsh judgement that I saw recently, and relived my attempt to ameliorate it without judging the judger
Alfred Kelberry: just enjoying their beauty and amazement of how much water they consume. hunger for life.
Alfred Kelberry: ok, glad to know you're still a human, pema :)
Pema Pera: to really describe, phenomenologically, what happens in even 2 or 3 seconds, may take many many minutes . . .
Wol Euler nods.
Maxine Walden: yes, so interesting, Pema
Alfred Kelberry: can i ask pema and woly to tell (if possible) about those big judgments that you recalled?
Wol Euler looks across at Pema. You first?
Alfred Kelberry: pema, same with the big bang? :)
Alfred Kelberry: re: 2-3 sec
Pema Pera: too many to remember let alone formulate in words . . .
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Pema Pera: like watching a little stream and trying to count the ripples
Wol Euler: that's a nice image
Maxine Walden: :) yes, such fluidity...
Pema Pera: big judgments tend to happen, I think, when we don't watch ourselves carefully
Wol Euler nods.
Alfred Kelberry: i should confess, i thought you're a master of non-judgment, pema. apparently, not quite so :)
Pema Pera: when we watch, they hide :)
Maxine Walden: and then the underlying unconscious flows as well
Wol Euler: so much happens out of habit, yes, or from following the herd
Wol Euler: negativity is contagious
Pema Pera: Alf, it's like wu-wei, doesn't mean doing nothing
Maxine Walden: hmm, yes, wol
Wol Euler: it's so easy to join in the common cry
Pema Pera: wu-wei, not doing, means not forcing
Wol Euler: hello lugh
Lugh Fehr: heya :)
Pema Pera: and non-judging doesn't mean viewing everything as equal, literally
Pema Pera: hi Lugh!
Wol Euler: Lugh is also dutch, have you met before?
Alfred Kelberry: yes, a fine line there
Pema Pera: yes, I think so
Lugh Fehr: imnot dutch! hehe
Wol Euler: oh O.O sorry.
Lugh Fehr: yes but we met :P
Pema Pera: so the challenge is to act with less and less friction, and to judge with less and less "judgment"
Alfred Kelberry: woly sees dutch people :)
Pema Pera: Dutch is not misspelled English, Wol
Wol Euler chortles.
Alfred Kelberry: right, pema
Alfred Kelberry: it's english + german :)
Alfred Kelberry: pema... about judgment. perhaps, it's about how you treat these thoughts that come up and not simply their existance?
Pema Pera: yes, we have to define our terms :-)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Pema Pera: the challenge as I see it is to notice differences, while being careful not to value them in an absolute way
Pema Pera: but only in relative ways
Wol Euler nods.
Pema Pera: A hammer is good for pouding nails, not good for cutting paper
Alfred Kelberry: haiku :)
Alfred Kelberry: thank you, pema
Wol Euler: wb korel
Korel Laloix: heya
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Lugh Fehr: hey rhiannon :)
Maxine Walden: well, dear friends, I have to go. Nice conversation...see youall soon, I hope
Alfred Kelberry: this pause was much more comfortable
Maxine Walden: bye for now
Wol Euler: bye maxine, enjoy your sunday
Alfred Kelberry: maxine :)
Pema Pera: me too, good seeing you all!
Wol Euler: bye pema, take care
Alfred Kelberry: pema-san :)
Lugh Fehr: byebye people
Korel Laloix: ciao
Alfred Kelberry: poof
Alfred Kelberry: woly made last pause worthwhile :)
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Wol Euler: how?
Alfred Kelberry: being :)
Wol Euler: ah
Wol Euler: well, thank you
Alfred Kelberry: thank you :)
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Alfred Kelberry: we should make a button for you too, woly :)
Alfred Kelberry: a necklace maybe
Korel Laloix: I like buttons.
Wol Euler: heheh
Wol Euler: hello steve
Korel Laloix: heya
Alfred Kelberry: korel, push my nose :)
stevenaia Michinaga: afternnon (here) everyone
Alfred Kelberry: stev :)
Korel Laloix: I've heard that line before..... lol
stevenaia Michinaga: good to be here, ssoory I am running late
Lugh Fehr: hey stevena
Wol Euler: oh, we can fix that Rhi :)
Alfred Kelberry: rhia, glasses? :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Rhi
Wol Euler: buttons can be invisible too :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello KOrel
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Alfred Kelberry: korel, what line? do you mean "push my nose"?
Korel Laloix grins
Lugh Fehr: bye rhi :)
Alfred Kelberry: korel, kind of sexy when you mention it :)
Alfred Kelberry: ok, don't push then :P
stevenaia Michinaga: WOL , You look radient
Wol Euler beams.
Wol Euler: ty
Alfred Kelberry: little hearts :)
Alfred Kelberry: *licks a tiny heart on woly's shoulder*
Wol Euler: :)
Korel Laloix: Get a room.
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Wol Euler: he wishes.
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Alfred Kelberry: wuff
Lugh Fehr: :D
Alfred Kelberry: um... now that sounded judgmental, korel :)
Alfred Kelberry: back to the topic :)
Lugh Fehr: its like an episode of family guy
Lugh Fehr: heheh
Alfred Kelberry: oh, i love family guy
Alfred Kelberry: it's like sl on tv
Korel Laloix: No, encouraging
Alfred Kelberry: korel :)
Lugh Fehr: :) hehe
Alfred Kelberry: bad assesment on my part, korel :)
Korel Laloix grins
Korel Laloix: But here is a question, why is judgementalism so judged?
Alfred Kelberry: *wants to hear from stev*
Korel Laloix: Stevenaia is a listener eveidently.
Korel Laloix grins
Alfred Kelberry: korel, um... :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe, good question, sort of like telling someone you are humble, not sure you can
Lugh Fehr: they say you get what you give :D
Alfred Kelberry: in some perfect world, lugh
stevenaia Michinaga: so telling someone they are judgmental means you may very well be judging
Korel Laloix: Most likely.
Lugh Fehr: ah this must be a perfect world then
Korel Laloix: lol
Wol Euler: hello zen
Korel Laloix: SL is perfect...
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Korel Laloix grins
Wol Euler: well, that matches my experience of this world
stevenaia Michinaga: there is balance somewhere there
Lugh Fehr: hey zen
Zen Arado: Hi all:)
Korel Laloix: One thing that is absolutely perfect about SL is....
Alfred Kelberry: zen-san
stevenaia Michinaga: waves to zen
Zen Arado: Hi Rhi :)
Wol Euler listens.
Korel Laloix: I have never had a issue with somenone's BO here.
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: bo?
Lugh Fehr: BO?
Korel Laloix: Body oder.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Lugh Fehr: heheh
Alfred Kelberry: valid point
stevenaia Michinaga: there are some things that don;t work well here, like smell-a-vision
Alfred Kelberry: *sniffs*
Wol Euler: the "mute" button
Korel Laloix: Thank goodness.
Alfred Kelberry: channel n5
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Wol Euler: I long for a RL mute button.
Lugh Fehr: smell a vision? very 60'2 ish
Wol Euler chuckles.
Alfred Kelberry: woly, isn't it easy?
Alfred Kelberry: you just leave
Alfred Kelberry: or put headphones on
stevenaia Michinaga: nose plugs
Alfred Kelberry: or scream "queit!"
stevenaia Michinaga: lol, boxy
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Korel Laloix: One down side of no smellivision though is....
Korel Laloix: IN SL, when dancing, you dont get that pheremone cloud going.
Wol Euler nods.
Alfred Kelberry: some do
Korel Laloix: What sims?
stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t that what the little hearts are?
Korel Laloix: Not close enough for my smellivision to work.
Alfred Kelberry: i've been to a lecture given by pamala from thinktank. she adores dancing in sl and it relaxes her.
Wol Euler nods.
Alfred Kelberry: i assume some amount of pheromone is at play
Korel Laloix: I find it mostly useless... SL dancing.
Korel Laloix: But that is just me.
Alfred Kelberry: after all it's a chemical in your body
Lugh Fehr: if their wernt so many people who like sl parties i would thinck im insane
Alfred Kelberry: korel, some moves are pretty neat
Alfred Kelberry: here, let me show you...
Lugh Fehr: hihihi
Korel Laloix: yes, the moves are fun to watch...... but you don't get to touch, take in the cloud, get sweaty.
Alfred Kelberry: and so on :)
Alfred Kelberry: um...
Alfred Kelberry: correct
Lugh Fehr: :D
Alfred Kelberry: you still can touch and get sweaty though :)
Wol Euler: hello calvino
Alfred Kelberry: cal :)
Korel Laloix: Yes..... but....... not going to complete that though in public.
Lugh Fehr: hey calvino
Zen Arado: Hi Cal
Zen Arado: :)
Wol Euler sighs.
Calvino Rabeni: Meep
Calvino Rabeni: Sigh
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Wol Euler: Meep Meep ;P :p:P :p :P
Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone :)
Korel Laloix: Did you spell meep right?
Alfred Kelberry: who?
Alfred Kelberry: deja vu...
Alfred Kelberry: you asked this question before
Alfred Kelberry: what did i say?
Korel Laloix: You said no.
Korel Laloix: That is why I asked again... smiles
Alfred Kelberry: um...
Alfred Kelberry: that's a new branch :)
Calvino Rabeni is not up on meep orthography
Alfred Kelberry: tour brain?
Alfred Kelberry: i thought it's when the matrix is being reloaded
Alfred Kelberry: ah
Alfred Kelberry: ok
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: boxy goes on tour with his brain
Zen Arado: world tour
Zen Arado: :)
Alfred Kelberry: sl included :)
Wol Euler stays at home with hers.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: luckily I never make typos
Alfred Kelberry: *takes woly for a walk* :)
Alfred Kelberry: indiana hat, cal?
--BELL--
Zen Arado: got to go
Calvino Rabeni: I don't have a whip, so maybe I am a "G Man" instead of a tomb raider
Zen Arado: bye all
Alfred Kelberry: cu zen
Wol Euler: bye zen, take care
Wol Euler: you could also be Jean Belmondo in "Au bout du souffle"
Wol Euler: bye rhi, take care
stevenaia Michinaga: you are the only one who look comfy in there boxy
Alfred Kelberry: *notices cal moves closer*
Lugh Fehr: byebye rhi
Alfred Kelberry: stev :)
Alfred Kelberry: designed for tinies
Lugh Fehr: hehe cute
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Rhia
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know that one Wol,
Wol Euler: the American title was "Breathless", jean-luc godard
Calvino Rabeni: but does anyone have any movies to recommend, with myths of current interest?
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks
stevenaia Michinaga: needs to get out and see more movies
Alfred Kelberry: cal, myths?
Alfred Kelberry: cu, rhia
Calvino Rabeni: yup, all movies are about myths and fables
Calvino Rabeni: they get told over and over in different ways
Wol Euler nods.
Alfred Kelberry: i'd like to see "in a better world"
Calvino Rabeni: I don't get out much to movies, Stevenaia, but Breathless is available by Netflix On-Demand
Calvino Rabeni: one click and it is started :)
Wol Euler: mind that you get the original, not the Hollywood remake
Wol Euler is a snob.
Calvino Rabeni: After shooting a cop, young thief Michel (Jean-Paul Belmondo) meets and shacks up with Patricia (Jean Seberg), an American who sells the International Herald Tribune on the streets of Paris. Hiding out in her hotel room, Michel tries to talk Patricia into going with him to Italy. But she doesn't know that would include a foray into criminal life. Director Jean-Luc Godard shot to cinematic stardom with this benchmark film of the French new wave.
Alfred Kelberry: woly, actually, it makes a lot of sense and highly recommended by me as well
Alfred Kelberry: re: original titles
Alfred Kelberry: so much is lost in translation
Calvino Rabeni: I'm wondering if there is an interesting link between French new wave cinema and the surrealist poetry movement of the 1930's
stevenaia Michinaga: (lost in translation, another good movie)
Alfred Kelberry: stev, yes :)
Wol Euler: an intereseting idea.
Calvino Rabeni: Surrealism had some things in common with PaB .. the aspects of experimentalism and awareness, for instance
Alfred Kelberry: cal, tell more about new wave cinema?
Calvino Rabeni: While cinema ended up with a more passive or voyeristic position for the observer ..
Calvino Rabeni: I don
Calvino Rabeni: 't know what French intellectual currents new wave may have included
Calvino Rabeni: but probably it had some subversive tendencies
Calvino Rabeni: as did surrealism, that's why I'm curious
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: my dears, I'm falling asleep at my desk. I'm going to run a few errands and then go to bed early.
Wol Euler: goodnight, take care, enjoy your sundays
Alfred Kelberry: auf woly
Lugh Fehr: gn wol
stevenaia Michinaga: night Wol
Alfred Kelberry: cal, was it you who put woly to sleep? :)
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Calvino Rabeni: Nope, actually Woly is excited to go off and watch some cinema :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Lugh Fehr: have you ever heard harry parcht?
Alfred Kelberry: how's that movie called about an american student in paris of the 60s?
Calvino Rabeni: It says here .. what I interpret to mean French new wave had a "do it yourself" idea, maybe a little more like "open source"
Calvino Rabeni: "The low-budget approach helped filmmakers get at the essential art form and find what was, to them, a much more comfortable and honest form of production."
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: and - "The movement has its roots in rebellion against the reliance on past forms (often adapted from traditional novellic structures), criticizing in particular the way these forms could force the audience to submit to a dictatorial plot-line."
stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOHBqFevy0k
Alfred Kelberry: i like the open source reference
Alfred Kelberry: it's indie movies are about now
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, there's a of great amateur stuff
Alfred Kelberry: low-fi focus on the content
Calvino Rabeni: I like "thunderant"
Alfred Kelberry: pi was amazing
Calvino Rabeni: Open source is becoming influential as a cultural stream redefining many other activities
Calvino Rabeni: Not just software .. not just industrial production and work
Calvino Rabeni: but including effects on things like spirituality
Alfred Kelberry: cal, ha! about time :)
Calvino Rabeni: There's one pretty good web site about that idea, the turn toward peer production and participation
Alfred Kelberry: poor rms has been fighting it since the 80s
Calvino Rabeni: http://p2pfoundation.net/Next_Buddha_Will_Be_A_Collective
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, well these things take a long time to be thought out and integrated through enough perspectives .. they were thinking about it clearly in the 70's ..
Lugh Fehr: i will save itfor later too tiered to read all the small words
Calvino Rabeni: social media is pushing it up to another level, beyond the intellectuals and cultural creatives
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, see you soon
Calvino Rabeni: hehe Lugh, it's the "big words" I have trouble with
Alfred Kelberry: cal, beyond the borders generally
Lugh Fehr: ah it has big words too right move then saving it for later :) is ounds all very intresting dough
Alfred Kelberry: that's the key part of it
Alfred Kelberry: in rl there are borders everywhere
Lugh Fehr: yes too much its very tiering allways walking on a stright line
Calvino Rabeni: Borders are good ... they simplify the task of the mind in concentrating on things in depth ...
Calvino Rabeni: Cyberspace can seem like an endlessly branching maze .. one's attention gets more and more fragmented
Alfred Kelberry: it's one possible outcome
Alfred Kelberry: yet the fact that we all sit here is exactly for the reason there are no borders between us
Calvino Rabeni: and the other possibilities, Al, how are they to be grasped?
Alfred Kelberry: cal, more data increases possibility of fragmentation, but it's not the problem of borders. it's how you handle this data.
Calvino Rabeni: There is a place where media studies and consciousness studies cross, along with Buddhism, and some of the precursors to PlayAsBeing ... which try to understand the effects of current media
Calvino Rabeni: http://online.sfsu.edu/~rpurser/revised/pages/Cyberspace%2012.htm
Alfred Kelberry: otherwise we could still be amoebas
Calvino Rabeni: but that's about 10 years old, and social media has brought in new influences
Calvino Rabeni: The "data" comes along with the means for "handling" it
Alfred Kelberry: oh, 1999
Calvino Rabeni: it's not primarily an individual discipline
Lugh Fehr: i slip off and laze about for a while till i sleep :) gn people happy conversations
Alfred Kelberry: night lugh :)
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: But the 1999 article is interesting in what it says about Time, Space and Knowledge, or at least the sensibilities behind that awareness practice
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Lugh
Alfred Kelberry: emphasising interdisciplinary approach
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Alfred Kelberry: yet, time to go for me
Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking of that early fable of interdisciplinary study,the story of the bline men and the elephant
Alfred Kelberry: thank you, cal
Calvino Rabeni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant
Calvino Rabeni: YW Al, good talking to you
Calvino Rabeni: take care
Alfred Kelberry: yes, a popular example
Alfred Kelberry: ok, cu