2011.03.07 07:00 - Belonging in a Greater Whole

The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku. Attending this morning session were Bleu, Sunshine, Eos, Freud, Bertrum, Yakuzza, Zen, Lola, Archmage, Xirana, Kodo and emeraldamerican (Adele). Both newcomers agreed to be recorded. I had to leave after one hour but the conversation continued quite a while: thanks to Zen who informed the last newcomer about our recording of the sessions.

Arrivals

Bleu Oleander: hi Eden :)
Eden Haiku: Hi Bleu :)
Eden Haiku: Big snowstorm here this morning...
Bleu Oleander: ha! I could have guessed .... you look dressed for it!
Eden Haiku: Found snow on hardwood floor when I woke up. I sleep with the window open...
Bleu Oleander: oh my!
Eden Haiku: A bit too wide opened I guess :)
Bleu Oleander: must have been windy
Eden Haiku: Yes, first time it happens!
Bleu Oleander: hi Sun :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi artsy people ;)
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: rezrez
Bleu Oleander: I think everyone likes our new project Eden
Eden Haiku: Just talked to my dad. He's going to the grocery store in his car. Tried to talk him out of it, but he says he has good snow tires...
Eden Haiku: hello Rezzing Sunshine!
Bleu Oleander: hi Eos
Eden Haiku: Yes, the new project seems popular. It's nice also that it's linked to the 3rd anniversary and to a party!
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bleu, Eden, Sunshine
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Eos
Eden Haiku: Hello Eos! Do you have the storm in Nova Scotia also?
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm looking warm Eden ;)
Eos Amaterasu: No, we're being somewhat spared - it's warm here, 9 degrees, a bit windy
Eden Haiku: hopes Storm will bring his magic carpet to the PaB party as he did last year. It was so much fun to ride!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Freud Jungsten: heya
Bleu Oleander: hi Freud :)
Eden Haiku: Hello Freud.
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Freud
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Freud
Sunshine Vayandar: brb
Eden Haiku: Noticing how tall Sunshine is. Eden is about 6 feet 7, she must be at least 7 feet tall :)))
Freud Jungsten: lol
Eden Haiku: Hi Bertrum!
Eos Amaterasu thinks SL has height inflation
Bertrum Resident: Hi
Freud Jungsten: I am 4'9 in RL, so I keep my AV at 1.5 so sim owners don't get mad at me.
Bleu Oleander: hi Bertrum
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bertrum
Eos Amaterasu: and Yakuzza
Eden Haiku: remembers meeting this tiny at a Burning Life event who had this mission of bringing back SL to scale!
Bleu Oleander: hey Yaku
Bertrum Resident: Hi everyone
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Sunshine Vayandar: back
Freud Jungsten: lol
Eden Haiku: Hello Yaku!
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Yaku ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Bert ;)
Eos Amaterasu: Looks like Yaku is still at the never-ending party :-)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eden Haiku: Ninja turned tuxedo
Bleu Oleander: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, actually i've never been on a party with tux duty :)
Eos Amaterasu: the rental charges for that tux must be growing by the day
Eden Haiku: Not yet, not yet...
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Obsy
Sunshine Vayandar: I did arrange tux parties before - but that was about Linux ;)
Eden Haiku: You might get invited to the Oscars one day Yaku, who knows!
Sunshine Vayandar: hi obsy ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus smiles
observerm Resident: hello
Yakuzza Lethecus: hopefully you didn't play too much tux racer :)
Eden Haiku: Hi observerm
Sunshine Vayandar: no what is tux racer
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Sunshine Vayandar pretends not to know what tux racer is
Yakuzza Lethecus: wel, it was or is a popular linux opensource racinggame :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
Sunshine Vayandar: it's fun
Yakuzza Lethecus: occupying the mind with something to do especially with games can be fun i wonder why external input seems to be necessary to gain these "fun" moderated feeling well why do we need games at all ?
Eos Amaterasu: Not enough enoughness?
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eden Haiku: ah!
Sunshine Vayandar: life is playing
Eos Amaterasu: Let's observe any urges to game out of the next 90 secs
Yakuzza Lethecus wonders where eliza is since "enoughness" is a term i associate with her somehow :)

--BELL--

Urges to game out of the 90 seconds

Eden Haiku: yes Eos
Bleu Oleander: urges to game out?
Sunshine Vayandar: no urges
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Freud Jungsten: I dont particularly understand video games.
Eos Amaterasu: to game out: ... to split this "what's happening here" scene
Eos Amaterasu: or "nothing happening here"....
Freud Jungsten: The same way I don't understand SL dancing.
Eos Amaterasu: dance with your legs, deep belly, torso, arms.... your mind will follow
Eden Haiku: Had the urge to answer the phone :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe ;)

Mirror neurons dancing and riding a horse

Freud Jungsten: And maybe that is why I find SL dancing so bland.... you dont get to do any of that so your mind never really gets into it.
Freud Jungsten: Is bland the right word?
Eos Amaterasu: perhaps
Yakuzza Lethecus: i sometimes wonder if secondlife dancing triggers motoric area's of the brain when doing dancing in secondlife or if there might be differences on the ppl according to their immersion in the virtual world
Bleu Oleander: hmmm, SL dancing was the first time I felt SL to be really immersive
Eos Amaterasu: I think it does affect you in RL (dancing in SL) - just like I found riding a horse in SL to be deeply moving....
Yakuzza Lethecus: we even  "feel" a rubber arm in front of us in some RL experiments
Sunshine Vayandar: I dance in a lightshow - I really enjoy that
Bleu Oleander: yes, Yaku, a mirror neuron thing happening
Freud Jungsten: For me, you don't get to touch anyone, you don't get the exercise..... you don't get the scents either..... love that in good club...
Eden Haiku: Must be, because my experience is different: I love SL dancing almost as much as I like RL dancing.
Bleu Oleander: me too Eden
Freud Jungsten: I do it... but it is really just something for my AV to do while I chat.
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, you're not going to get the touch you get in RL, but I think your cells start feeling the dance anyway
Yakuzza Lethecus: freud: i agree, that was my perception of it initially too
Sunshine Vayandar: even when u dance waka waka Freud ;p
Eden Haiku: Mirror cells dancing :)
Freud Jungsten: Hmm... maybe I will try to sort of trancy mayself into it he nxt time.
Yakuzza Lethecus: for me sl was just a video game with bad graphics and a more serious community
Eos Amaterasu: :-)

In order for us to immerse ourselves into dancing to keep noticing about how it feels, I launch "onigokko" dance: but only Yaku has his trigger on: he ends up tracing circles by himself. Then we do dance until Freud discovers she has the power to stop us, but then Sunshine launches "waka waka"dance...

Eden Haiku: onigokko
Freud Jungsten: That is a pretty good outline of it... lol
Sunshine Vayandar: off
Bleu Oleander: ha! Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus feels like a puppet
Sunshine Vayandar: lol
Eden Haiku: stop
Eden Haiku: sorry, wasn't wearing mine :)
Eden Haiku: typos...
Eden Haiku: onigokko
Freud Jungsten: stop
Freud Jungsten: lol
Freud Jungsten: I have the power.
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
Eden Haiku: wakon
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi all :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Zen ;)
Freud Jungsten: osiyo
Eden Haiku: hi Zen, you just missed onigokko ;)
Freud Jungsten: Good for him.
Freud Jungsten smiles
Zen Arado: awww
Eden Haiku: wakaon
Sunshine Vayandar: I saw zen dancing by the landing spot
Yakuzza Lethecus: wakaon
Sunshine Vayandar: wakaoff
Lola6355 Resident: hi! i love this song
Sunshine Vayandar: wakaon
Freud Jungsten: Sounds like a bad poem title...
Eden Haiku: lloking in inventory...
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eden Haiku: wakaon
Sunshine Vayandar: wakaoff
Eden Haiku: Hello Mellow!
Zen Arado: Hi Lola
Eos Amaterasu: It's odd to be dancing up to your knees in the floor :-)
Zen Arado: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe yes
Bleu Oleander: hi Lola
Lola6355 Resident: hi!
Eden Haiku: So many things are odd around here...
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Lola
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello lola
Zen Arado: including us
Freud Jungsten: Like the people you mean?... smiles
Lola6355 Resident: hello everyone :)
Bleu Oleander: :) Zen
Freud Jungsten: Darn, beet me to it.
Zen Arado: :)
Eden Haiku: Oh, Lola is your name. Not "mellow roasted", I see :)
Lola6355 Resident: lol
Zen Arado: remember old song
Zen Arado: 'whatever Lola wants, Lola gets....
Lola6355 Resident: haha

--BELL--

Welcoming Lola 

Eden Haiku: Thank you for observing the silence with us Lola.
Lola6355 Resident: it was a great experience
Freud Jungsten: Who sang that Sound of Silence song?
Eden Haiku: Play as Being group is about experimenting with our experience of "Being", by taking 9 seconds pauses all day long (every 15 minutes)
Lola6355 Resident: oh ok
Eos Amaterasu: Simon & Garfunckle
Zen Arado: Simon and Garfunkel
Freud Jungsten: OK... thanks.
Eden Haiku: And when we gather here, 4 times day, we keep silent for 90 seconds together, every 15 minutes.
Eos Amaterasu: The pause that refreshes
Lola6355 Resident: thats very interesting. you'll announce it each time right? i don't want to be rude and forget
Eden Haiku: No, don't worry, we do forget sometimes too ;)
Eden Haiku: The chat box will announce it and also you can hear the bell.
Freud Jungsten: It is also interesting, the times that I have been here when it was asked what people did during the 90 sec.
Freud Jungsten: The mode answer was......
Freud Jungsten: get more coffee.
Eden Haiku: Sometimes, yes, Freud...
Freud Jungsten: lol
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eos Amaterasu: level up
Lola6355 Resident: so what do you guys talk about here?
Eden Haiku: Oh, that was beautiful Zen :) [he had just played some tiny bit of a song on voice]
Freud Jungsten: No real pattern really.
Eos Amaterasu: how the mind and reality and being play as each other?
Lola6355 Resident: thats fascinating
Eden Haiku: Well said Eos :)
Eos Amaterasu: and we can observe that more in the 90 seconds
Eden Haiku: We share our experiences on different levels, it changes from one moment to the next, from one session to the next.
Eos Amaterasu: which is also an echo here of the idea of doing an even shorter practice/play, 9 seconds every 15 minutes
Eden Haiku: Taking a step back so to speak, becoming aware...
Eden Haiku: Remembering we are playing as being...
Eos Amaterasu: being an accommodating host of oneself, and of each other in this circle
Zen Arado: echo yes
Eden Haiku: How does it feel being back to the circle Bertrum? I heard you have been away for a while?

You are Echo

Zen Arado: A monk asked Hogen, "I, Echo, ask you, Master. What is Buddha?" Hogen said, "You are Echo."
Bertrum Resident: Comfortable...
Eden Haiku: Nice :)
Freud Jungsten: Explain please Zen.
Zen Arado: sorry - a koan I am working on
Eos Amaterasu: Bertrum [not]  Bertram
Eden Haiku: We are an echo of the Buddha?
Zen Arado: you tell me
Bertrum Resident: Former AV name Bertrum Quan...
Eos Amaterasu: "You are Echo" heh heh :-)
Eden Haiku: Bertrum is not Bertram, yes.
Bertrum Resident: Yes.
Freud Jungsten: lol.... My English and my Buddism awareness failed me both there.
Zen Arado: right Eos :)
Eden Haiku: One of the oddities of this place: we have a Bertrum and a Bertram and two Bleus.
Bleu Oleander: echo seems to mean not "original"?
Eden Haiku: Or is it Blue Levasseur?
Zen Arado: immediate response without thinking
Bleu Oleander: imitation, repetition?
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Arch ;)
Zen Arado: there's a lovely verse with this koan
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Arch (looks like you're wearing gray PJs :-)
Eden Haiku: I see it as a sound resonating from Being into our own hearts...
Eos Amaterasu: now rezzing...
Eden Haiku: Good morning Archmage of Atlantis!
Zen Arado: Hi Arch :)
Archmage Atlantis: I feel like I'm wearing gray pjs
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eden Haiku: what a feeling!

--BELL--

The Partridge sings

Archmage Atlantis: or like the rabbit in alice
Zen Arado: In the land of the river - Faintly stirring, the gentle breeze of spring - Far away, deep among blossoms - The Partridge sings
Archmage Atlantis: oh, poetry session?
Lola6355 Resident: alrighit i have to go. thanks for being so welcoming :)
Eden Haiku: ;) if you will Arch :)
Bleu Oleander: bye Lola
Sunshine Vayandar: nice to meet you Lola ;)
Zen Arado: bye Lola ;)
Eden Haiku: Thank you for joining us Lola!
Eden Haiku: See you soon!
Lola6355 Resident: see ya!
Archmage Atlantis: Lola. return.....
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Lola
Lola6355 Resident: bye :)
Archmage Atlantis: bye for now
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye lola
Archmage Atlantis: I wrote down a couple of dreams for the dream session
Eden Haiku: Would you like to share one of them Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: Should have known when I saw Eden as g, this would be poetry
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi xirana
Bleu Oleander: gtg, bye everyone :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Xirana ;)
Eden Haiku: It was not until you came in. Zen just quoted a nice micrometry.
Eos Amaterasu: Me too, actually, thanks and bye all
Bleu Oleander: hi and bye Xirana :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hi to all :)... I'm late :(
Eden Haiku: Bye Eos, bye Bleu. Have a nice day!
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee Bleu and Eos
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye all leavers
Eden Haiku: No lateness here Xirana, welcome!
Zen Arado: bye Bleu, Eos

Ubuntu philosophy: "self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole "

Sunshine Vayandar: when I see Xirana - I think of Ubuntu ;)
Eden Haiku: me too :)
Zen Arado: Hi Xirana
Xirana Oximoxi: yes! Sun..Ubuntu :)) very nice word
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Zen
Sunshine Vayandar: I was reading the logs - the session about Ubuntu ...
Eden Haiku: Are others familiar with the South African brand of Ubuntu? (not the software)
Zen Arado: Hi Kodo :)
Kodo Islay: hi zen
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Kodo ;)
Eden Haiku: Hello Kodo.
Xirana Oximoxi: I liked this AFRICAN PHILOSOPHY
Kodo Islay: hi all
Xirana Oximoxi: I am because you are:)
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Kodo
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Zen Arado: what does it mean again?
Sunshine Vayandar: it's a very nice video that you shared Xirana
Sunshine Vayandar: Ubuntu (Zulu/Xhosa pronunciation: [ùɓúntʼú]; English: /ʊˈbʊntuː/ oo-BOON-too) is an ethic or humanist philosophy focusing on people's allegiances and relations with each other. The word has its origin in the Bantu languages of southern Africa. Ubuntu is seen as a classical African concept
Eden Haiku: Here is the wikipedia link to Ubuntu philosophy : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(philosophy)
Xirana Oximoxi: for me it means that we are when we are aware that we are not alone
Archmage Atlantis: 

Mapping morning

 Forgetting night

                    Dreams they came 

With some of fright to the fountain

 I rush to be thought the time falls away from me

            Friends are there those who see the greater works in poetry

Zen Arado: nice Arch
Xirana Oximoxi: not only in the present... but also all the people before us has made it possible for us to be
Sunshine Vayandar: so nice Arch ;)
Zen Arado: we are only what we are with people?
Eden Haiku: Nice Arch!
Xirana Oximoxi: nice poem Arch
Archmage Atlantis: The thing still in my paste before was about Kent State
Xirana Oximoxi: Zen.. not necessarily 'with'
Archmage Atlantis: I had too delete that
Zen Arado: or as we relate to?
Zen Arado: lot of truth in that
Sunshine Vayandar: there are different ways people explain ubuntu - here is what Desmond Tutu says
Sunshine Vayandar: A person with Ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed.
Zen Arado: we can't be anything on our own
Eden Haiku: Ubuntu is about the interconnectedness of all that exists isn'it?
Sunshine Vayandar: yes that is how I understand Eden
Eden Haiku: Saw a great video this morning...flocks of birds...all interconnected the way we are. Looking for the link...
Zen Arado: like that Sun
Zen Arado: a theory of abundance
Sunshine Vayandar: but on wikipedia there are different quotes from people explaining it
Eden Haiku: It's about 5 minutes long, you might watch it later: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vhE8ScWe7w
Sunshine Vayandar: Like Mandela says for example : A traveler through a country would stop at a village and he didn't have to ask for food or for water. Once he stops, the people give him food, entertain him.
Xirana Oximoxi: 'he or she belongs in a greater whole ' .. and we are born inside this whole.. and when we die the 'whole' is still here for the ones that follows
Eden Haiku: Just read Desmond Tutu's quote about Ubuntu: that very clear Sunshine, thanks.
Kodo Islay: interesting
Xirana Oximoxi: ty Eden..I'll see it later:)
Zen Arado: 'it takes a whole village to raise a child'

--BELL--

I had to leave the session at this point but I'm still breaking the remaining of the log in sections  with titles to make it easier to read.

Sunshine Vayandar: yes - that is what a woman says exactly - in that video you posted Xirana ;) it takes a village to raise a child...
Eden Haiku: I have to leave early today. Have a nice conversation and a nice day!
Sunshine Vayandar: oh ok Eden
Sunshine Vayandar: see u soon ;)
Zen Arado: bye Eden :)
Sunshine Vayandar: take care
Eden Haiku: Bye everyone!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Kodo Islay: bye
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeeee
Freud Jungsten: ciao all.
Zen Arado: ciao Freud :)
Kodo Islay: bye
Xirana Oximoxi: arch you will delete the poem?
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee Freud - take care
Xirana Oximoxi: I'll copy it.. with your permission.. I like to read poetry very slowly .. but, dont worry!!! I'll keep it for myself :)
Archmage Atlantis: Kennedy, Kent State, Havvey Firestein, The multiple explosions on launch, MLK, Madela, Ghandi, Tsalagi,
Freud Jungsten: NOT going quite yet.
Freud Jungsten: lol
Zen Arado: soryy I thought you said ciao to say you were going
Zen Arado: :)
Freud Jungsten: Was just late.
Freud Jungsten: In a few IMs... sorry.

A strange dream

Zen Arado: I had a strange dream last night
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Kodo Islay: oh
Archmage Atlantis: sanskrit
Zen Arado: I was getting on a plane but I didn't know where I wanted to go
Zen Arado: bye Yaku
Kodo Islay: hmmm
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Yaku
Zen Arado: was racking my brain
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeee Yaku
Sunshine Vayandar: racking your brain?
Zen Arado: trying to think where it was I had decided to go
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: and u remember?
Zen Arado: what did it mean?
Zen Arado: no I didn't
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm not the end of the world ;)
Zen Arado: no
Zen Arado: it seemed like it in the dream tho
Freud Jungsten: Where does the term Racking YOur Brain come from?
Freud Jungsten: I can't figure out that idium at all.
Zen Arado: no idea
Sunshine Vayandar: yes I wondered too Freud
Zen Arado: strange words we use
Freud Jungsten: English is so idiumatic sometimes.
Xirana Oximoxi: maybe you're looking for a new 'objective' and still not clear where it is... how to gwet it
Archmage Atlantis: In each end, there is a new beginning
Zen Arado: hmmm yeh
Freud Jungsten: I am getting better at following here, but still struggle from time to time.
Kodo Islay: like putting your brain on a rack to try and squeeze out the answer
Zen Arado: ah yes
Zen Arado: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm still strange Zen ;p
Kodo Islay: lol
Zen Arado: a rack was a device of torture
Sunshine Vayandar: racking your brain hmm ;)
Kodo Islay: medieval
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, a rack was a device of torture
Zen Arado: maybe it is showing me there is nowhere to go to
Freud Jungsten: A rack is also a drying thing.
Archmage Atlantis: Some went on purpose because of belief
Sunshine Vayandar: just be in the now with nothing to think about
Xirana Oximoxi: Freud...it's 'always' difficult to follow here... we all say interesting thoughts .. and sometimes I miss them..
Zen Arado: yes Sun :)
Sunshine Vayandar: or you can play your didj

Wiki, logs, integration, balance etc.

Xirana Oximoxi: I read the posts in the Wiki later and I see it more clear then
Zen Arado: he he
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) or iphone of course
Zen Arado: even better :)
Sunshine Vayandar: posts ?
Sunshine Vayandar: ahh ok - the logs?
Zen Arado removes brain from rack
Sunshine Vayandar: ahhh I feel better Zen ;)
Archmage Atlantis: did the question of why do we log things ever get answered?
Sunshine Vayandar: it still carries on
Zen Arado: it will be useful i 100 years for research
Zen Arado: our quaint customs
Archmage Atlantis: perhaps, it is useful now
Kodo Islay: smiles
Zen Arado: who would have time to read them?

--BELL--

Archmage Atlantis: I have been in a logic vs belief thread in another place
Archmage Atlantis: There is a young person there who has found the best integration between the 2 sides that I have heard to date
Sunshine Vayandar: I just think of the old days - when almost nothing was written down ... there was only the oral tradition
Freud Jungsten: OH do tell that please.
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Sun, tell us
Sunshine Vayandar: no Arch- your turn ;)
Xirana Oximoxi: yes Arch... how do these two sides integrate?
Archmage Atlantis: They don't.....in my reading of the mathematics
Freud Jungsten: I find the use of the word Integrate there a bit interesting.
Archmage Atlantis: They balance and contribute
Archmage Atlantis: to who we are
Sunshine Vayandar: they complement each other?
Freud Jungsten: I am a mathematician and a person of faith, and they are the same thoughts, not integrated separate thoughts.
Archmage Atlantis: complement, compete and complete
Freud Jungsten: I really hope that English made sense.
Sunshine Vayandar: yes it did Freud ;)
Zen Arado: why do we make oppositions out of them?
Archmage Atlantis: Balance is a state of opposing forces
Zen Arado: it is found now that reason has to use emotional part of the brain
Xirana Oximoxi: I like this Idea of 'balance' ..it makes a lot of sense to me
Freud Jungsten: Balance is over rated though.
Kodo Islay: :)
Freud Jungsten: Maybe a catch word.
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: like \ golden mean
Freud Jungsten: When people use that term, it seems to me to say.... not making a choice.
Freud Jungsten: But it might be an English meaning thing I don't quite get.
Zen Arado: the best way is always the middle of two extremes can be a fallacy
Archmage Atlantis: Balance is a state of being, not a place to attempt to be
Sunshine Vayandar: what do u mean Zen
Zen Arado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation
Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;)
Archmage Atlantis: It is never the best way.....whatever "best" may mean
Zen Arado: sometimes the extreme view is a good one
Archmage Atlantis: It is the way achieved
Zen Arado: sometimes not good to be moderate
Freud Jungsten: But sometimes the mid point between the two extreams is the wrong place as well.
Zen Arado: good
Zen Arado: exactly Freud
Freud Jungsten: You need to think two or three dimensional to get to a better place, not on a line.
Zen Arado: yeh
Kodo Islay: also where do the definitions of what makes it an extreme come from
Zen Arado: yeh
Freud Jungsten: lol
Freud Jungsten: Good question.
Archmage Atlantis: Best the human mind can do is 3...hold up 3 fingers
Xirana Oximoxi: I will have to thing about it.. I've read a book by Mircea Eliade.. and before seeing life as a line it was always a circle
Archmage Atlantis: then hold up 4 fingers
Freud Jungsten: If you listen to CNN, anyone who watches Fox is an extremist..... and vsv.
Xirana Oximoxi: circular
Archmage Atlantis: then hold up five fingers
Kodo Islay: yeh
Freud Jungsten: I run into that in RL quite a lot.
Zen Arado: it's like always going with the status quo
Zen Arado: when things need to be changed

Happy with lulu the zulu: maybe it's completely normal to be completely unique!

Freud Jungsten: I am a lesbian of color and not a far left thinker...... so I catch grief from about everyone.... strange.
Kodo Islay: :) interesting world to inhabit Freud
Zen Arado: we have to fit so many 'norms'
Sunshine Vayandar: I am a white zulu ;)
Freud Jungsten: lol
Zen Arado: I am in a wheelchair
Kodo Islay: I am completely normal ;)
Freud Jungsten: I hate when people think that because I am X that I have to be Y really annoys the living shit out of me.
Freud Jungsten: I sooooo hope I used that idium correctly....lol
Zen Arado: you sure Kodo ? :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I feel like I am on another planet - looking at what everyone on earth does
Zen Arado: planet SL
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

--BELL--

Sunshine Vayandar: I don't bother anymore hehe - I am happy with lulu the zulu ;D
Freud Jungsten: lol
Zen Arado: :)
Archmage Atlantis: And I am a white male, born of males from a tree that goes back to the 1600;s in North America.....probably to the area we now call poland in the 1200s, and celtic on my mother's mitocondria.....
Archmage Atlantis: And so what
Zen Arado: a WASP Arch?
Freud Jungsten: That is important.
Archmage Atlantis: Ywam Zen
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Archmage Atlantis: But gay
Freud Jungsten: Poland is place rich with culture and history.
Freud Jungsten: Why downplay that?
Zen Arado: we all have backgrounds rich in culture and history
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I am officially Hungarian - but don't feel "hungarian"
Zen Arado: how could we escape that?
Zen Arado: I am Irish but feel British :)
Freud Jungsten: Escape what?
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe Zen ;)
Zen Arado: escape our background
Zen Arado: it is what we are
Freud Jungsten: Why would we want to escape it?
Zen Arado: exactly
Archmage Atlantis: I don't downplay it, as far as I can tell.........I only knew it when my Y and mitochodria we submitted to a genealogy program
Zen Arado: tho some feel ashamed of it
Freud Jungsten: I dont get that bit.
Zen Arado: we think we are ordinary
Zen Arado: want to be something more glamourous
Freud Jungsten: I really don't understand white people that only focus on the bad things whites have done.
Zen Arado: but don't realize how unique we are
Sunshine Vayandar: I am too strange - sometimes I want to melt in ;)
Kodo Islay: maybe its completely normal to be completely unique
Zen Arado: yeh :)
Sunshine Vayandar: yes I felt that Freud when I arrived in SA
Sunshine Vayandar: I suddenly felt white
Sunshine Vayandar: and felt bad - even though I didn't "take part" in the apartheid years
Sunshine Vayandar: there was this new feeling of shame - because I was white
Sunshine Vayandar: it took many years to feel better and normalize a bit
Freud Jungsten: Well, considering the human rights abuses now there.........
Sunshine Vayandar: not sure if this makes sense
Zen Arado: you are quite sensitive Sun
Zen Arado: don't think I feel any racial guilt
Archmage Atlantis: Pardon me, I need to contimplare
Zen Arado: personal guilt yes....
Sunshine Vayandar: it can get overwhelming zen - pressure of the experiences of the people ...

Racial guilt

Freud Jungsten: Racial guilt?
Freud Jungsten: Can we talk about that?
Archmage Atlantis: Namaste and Blessings
Zen Arado: namaste Arch
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee arch ;)
Xirana Oximoxi: bye to all..I must go ..have a nice day
Zen Arado: bye Xirana
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee Xirana - take care ;))
Zen Arado: sure if you want Freud
Sunshine Vayandar: about racial guilt?
Zen Arado: I don't feel it much
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm it's different when one is in a country like SA
Freud Jungsten: A strange concept to me.
Zen Arado: tho I realize my ancestors weren't very good people sometimes
Zen Arado: maybe we need to be confronted with injustices like Sun was
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm it's difficult to explain - unless may be I give examples
Sunshine Vayandar: since I was about 19 - I had many friends from Arab and African countries
Sunshine Vayandar: and often I spent time in places where I was the only white person
Sunshine Vayandar: if one is in Europe - one doesn't notice it
Sunshine Vayandar: but here - there are 2 extremes
Sunshine Vayandar: mostly people come to say hello - just because I am white and also very nice hehe
Zen Arado: of course :)
Zen Arado: Hi Adele :)
Sunshine Vayandar: people that rarely see white people interacting naturally with other color people
Sunshine Vayandar: hi there ;)

--BELL--

Zen Arado: wb Kodo
Sunshine Vayandar: wb Kodo ;)
Kodo Islay: broadband signal died
Zen Arado: oh
Sunshine Vayandar: yes you were gone suddenly
Zen Arado: Kodo is a RL friend of mine :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ah really
Kodo Islay: I'm on the phone app now
Sunshine Vayandar: that mysterious RL ;)
Zen Arado: k
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm it's an interesting topic - I never get to talk about this actually

An invitation

Zen Arado: have you been here before Adele?
Sunshine Vayandar: brb
Sunshine Vayandar: back
emeraldamerican Resident: namaste
Sunshine Vayandar: namaste ;)
Kodo Islay: :)
Zen Arado: yes Kodo and I live close
Kodo Islay: and had lunch together. :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) I dunno anyone in SA apart from Johan
Zen Arado: yep :)
Kodo Islay: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ahhhh and that is when u iphoned me
Zen Arado: and tried iPhone **********Applause!!********** for SL
Zen Arado: **********Applause!!**********
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
Sunshine Vayandar: *:• •:*.-:¦:- -:¦:-.•:*¨¨*:• YAYYY *:• •:*¨¨*:•.-:¦:- -:¦:-.¨¨*:•
Kodo Islay: yes
Zen Arado: that cos I typed 'app'
Zen Arado: it worked
Kodo Islay: and it's helping me out now that Internet at home is down
Kodo Islay: :)
Zen Arado: so you are on 3 G?
Sunshine Vayandar: ah ok i see
Kodo Islay: yes
Kodo Islay: that's why I can't sit down lol
Zen Arado: you use a cellphone for SL too Freud?
Sunshine Vayandar: ah Rhi did the same yesterday
Zen Arado: yes I know Rhi does
Sunshine Vayandar: I tpd her and she landed next to me naked as usual ;)
Zen Arado: :)
Kodo Islay: lol
Zen Arado: the naked philosopher
Sunshine Vayandar: and I think Bleu stood up and pushed her away a bit
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
Zen Arado: she is a nice woman tho
Sunshine Vayandar: yes she is
Zen Arado: and very smart
Sunshine Vayandar: so I am arranging this talk with Pamala on Perfect Paradise
Sunshine Vayandar: on Saturday 7amslt
Sunshine Vayandar: you can come listen if you like
Sunshine Vayandar: I think Freud is sleeping ;)
Kodo Islay: what's it about?
Freud Jungsten: IN some IMs.
Freud Jungsten: Yes, I do call folks from SL.
Zen Arado: I like Pamala
Sunshine Vayandar: "The realities of multiple perceptions by those populating our virtual environment are diverse. This class will examine how it is to BE in world. Divided in three categories... Dissasociative, Immersive, and Augmentative. How all three are valid methods of Being, but how the interactions played out can be major drama fest. Lets examine how to tell where the avatar you're talking to is on the sliding scale of BEING...
Zen Arado: ah good
Zen Arado: I never get to hear about that immersive stuff
Sunshine Vayandar: yes I know Freud - np at all ;)
Kodo Islay: interesting
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I must go ;(
Zen Arado: k
Sunshine Vayandar: very interesting chat today ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: ty all
Zen Arado: I better go too
Kodo Islay: nice to meet you all
Sunshine Vayandar: take care - will be back later to arrange this talk
Zen Arado: yes looking forward to talk
Sunshine Vayandar: nice meeting you Kodo ;)
Zen Arado: and Adele
emeraldamerican Resident: Hello Kodo
Kodo Islay: pleasure
emeraldamerican Resident: namaste

--BELL--

Zen Arado: I asked Adele for permission to record and she agreed [whispering "thank you Zen" ]
Freud Jungsten: thanks for the chat all.
Kodo Islay: :)
Zen Arado: thanks Freud
Zen Arado: and everyone
Zen Arado: see you later Kodo :)
Kodo Islay: soon enough!
Zen Arado: :)