2011.03.03 13:00 - fear part 2

The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

introducing PaB

Lia Rikugun: thursday, march 3 2011, 1pm
--BELL--
Lia Rikugun: hello mar nice to meet you
Mar Rodas: Hi lia
Lia Rikugun: are you new to the pavillion here?
Mar Rodas: nice to meet you
Mar Rodas: yes I am
Lia Rikugun: ah ok
Mar Rodas: Just 5 tiemes in ths
Lia Rikugun: so maybe i can givbe you a short introduction
Lia Rikugun: oh ok
Mar Rodas: yeeeees
Lia Rikugun: probably you already got 5 introductions...
Lia Rikugun: so maybe a 6th one from me
Lia Rikugun: as you may know we are a group called play as being
Lia Rikugun: in general we want to explore reality, whatever that means
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: we meet here every 6 hours at 1am, 7am, 1pm 7pm
Mar Rodas: Yes thansk I have been reeding all the stuff

meditation as mind training, meditation with certain questions in the back of the head

Mar Rodas: I am also interested in meditation
Lia Rikugun: so everybody around the globe has the chance to discuss and share ideas
Lia Rikugun: what kind of meditation are you doing?
Lia Rikugun: or what is your current question?
Mar Rodas: well mind training,, there is many names for the same practice.
Lia Rikugun: can you say more, what do you mean by mind training?
Mar Rodas: I have problems witn Sl
Wol Euler: hello lia, mar, sam
Mar Rodas: Owowww , nice dress
Lia Rikugun: oh i am sorry
Lia Rikugun: ho wol
Wol Euler: ty :)
Mar Rodas: hi Wol
Lia Rikugun: oh oooOOOooo I didnt see you :)
Lia Rikugun: i have 2 questions
--BELL--
Lia Rikugun: on
Liza Deischer: and hey rest :)
Lia Rikugun: hello liza
Liza Deischer: oops :)
Mar Rodas: hello Liza
Wol Euler: hello liza
Lia Rikugun: so i am currently working with two questions during meditiation :)
Wol Euler listens.
Lia Rikugun: the first one i have for several time "what is the I?"
Lia Rikugun: the second one since recently "How can I smile at fear?"
Lia Rikugun: both seem to be quite difficult to answer
Lia Rikugun: at least for me
Wol Euler nods.

fear, what is fear? what does it do? fear of disappearance of the ego

Liza Deischer: fear is a hard one
Mar Rodas: yes it can take you al life to have a real answe
Liza Deischer: fear is a layer of itself, a kind of resistance
Mar Rodas: for me fear is what protects the self to disapeear
Liza Deischer: at the same time protective
Mar Rodas: is a question of identity ,
Mar Rodas: you protects your sens of identiy to desapear
Wol Euler: hello mick
Liza Deischer ponders
Mar Rodas: the worse thing your ego can expererience is to desapear
oO0Oo Resident: hey Mickorod
Lia Rikugun: can you say more mar? i am not sure i understand
Mickorod Renard: helloo
Lia Rikugun: hey mick
Mickorod Renard: hi
Liza Deischer: not sure it if is only about the fear of disappearance
Mickorod Renard: :)
Liza Deischer: hi mick
Mickorod Renard: yo
Lia Rikugun: (we are taslking about the self, and fear, how to smile at fear, that fear protects the self to diaappear)
Liza Deischer: I guess in it's most deep form it is about protection the identity, but in daily life identity can be so many little things
Mickorod Renard: animals try and mask fear
Liza Deischer: Lia like to smile at it :)
Lia Rikugun: haha i wish i could
Wol Euler: where does that expression come from, Lia?

the book "smile at fear" from Chögyam Trungpa

Lia Rikugun: i am currently reading a book "smile at fear"
Wol Euler: ah :)
Wol Euler: do tell
Lia Rikugun: from chögyam trungpa
Lia Rikugun: i found it in a nice bookstore/restaurant
Lia Rikugun: and i had to buy it :)
Mar Rodas: I like how he explains everithing chögyam trungpa is very clear
Mickorod Renard: hi Arch
Liza Deischer: it's hard to come up with a better answer te Chogyam Trungpa :)
Lia Rikugun: hi arch
Liza Deischer: hi Arch
Lia Rikugun: we are talking about smiling at fear or at least trying :)
Mar Rodas: hi Arch
Lia Rikugun: well i realize that I am very fearful, thats what i see when I read the book
Archmage Atlantis: Let it be
Wol Euler: hello arch
Liza Deischer: Though he is Tibetan, dealing with different 'patterns of identity'
Lia Rikugun: o this starts the questioning

smiling at fear: outward expression or inward feeling

Mickorod Renard: I think there are several ways at looking at ' smiling at fear'
Archmage Atlantis: and hi
Liza Deischer: well, I guess that's where it starts, seeing it
oO0Oo Resident: hi Arch
Mickorod Renard: there is the outwaard expression to others,,and there is the inward feeling, and possible nutralising of emotions
Archmage Atlantis: yes, it starts there
Mar Rodas: I think that fear is agood thing the proble is the realtionship we have with fear
Liza Deischer: fear can protect your life yes......
Archmage Atlantis: and the night can be cloudy
Mar Rodas: and at the same tiem colapse it
Mickorod Renard: how one reacts to the initial realisation of a fearful circumstance is important

*just* let it be

Archmage Atlantis: Let it be
Lia Rikugun: what are possible reactions mick?
Mar Rodas: fear many times prevents you to do what you wish
Lia Rikugun: i think this is very easy said let it be, drop things, just be
oO0Oo Resident: agreed... the reactivity is what to be aware of
Lia Rikugun: i thought i did that
Liza Deischer: yes Lia
Lia Rikugun: but acvtually i dont
Archmage Atlantis: How many wise ones have to say it
Archmage Atlantis: let it be
Mickorod Renard: well, I have been in some fearful circumstances. and have to admit to reacting in a variety of ways
Liza Deischer: fear is about tension, we don't like that kind of tension so we try to relax, doing the opposite of what your mind and body wants
--BELL--

exploring fear

Liza Deischer: a way to explore could be to intensify the tension, the natural response of the body to that is to relax
Archmage Atlantis: Raped at 12 yo, raped and left for dead in a dumpster at 13, try to relax, to believe after those things happen
Liza Deischer: wow arch....
Wol Euler: o.O
Lia Rikugun: :(
Mickorod Renard: fear is there for a reason, reating is natural, to save oneself,,but often what follows is not controlled or inteligent
Archmage Atlantis: Belief is the only response to fear
Mickorod Renard: that must have been traumatic Arch
Mickorod Renard: I think you are right Arch
Mickorod Renard: after the reaction must be belief
Mar Rodas: believe in your own certenty of a thiferent aproach or a diferent view to fear
Mickorod Renard: I thin the idea that all is lost leads to irrational behavior
Archmage Atlantis: wise men say , only fools rush in
Mickorod Renard: with belief a modicum of sense returns
Liza Deischer: I'm not such a 'believer' :) I like to 'work' with what is there
Liza Deischer: explore it, though fear is the most difficult emotion to explore, since it is based on the most strong defense we have
oO0Oo Resident wonders if Arch was making a personal reference... or an not, and is sensitive to the implicit gravity of the statement
Mickorod Renard: to begin to'work with what is there' one must have some self belief in the situation
Archmage Atlantis: In books I have reader, I identify with the fool/the joker

there must be trust to be able explore

Liza Deischer: there must be trust yes Mick
Mickorod Renard: Arch, what books are they?
Mickorod Renard: they sound like golden dawn?
Liza Deischer: there must be trust in yoru system, in your patterns that eventually your body and mind can deal with it, but that is work too
Liza Deischer: the only way to build that kind of trust is 'work'
Mickorod Renard: but this is also a conditioning is it not?
Mickorod Renard: and although we can become more adept at dealing with circumstances there are always to unexpected
Liza Deischer: part of it is, patterns we take with us from tje past, that once protected us and are now getting in teh way
Archmage Atlantis: I am unable to comment (have cat on face)
Liza Deischer: there is no control :)
Mickorod Renard: he he ,,
Liza Deischer: :) Arch
Lia Rikugun: :) hehe arch

going with the flow

Mickorod Renard: there could be go with the flow
Liza Deischer: there is only flow.
Liza Deischer: snap :)
Archmage Atlantis: catfree, nods to Liz
Mickorod Renard: well, that is something I am trying to work with
Liza Deischer: and that flow is something you can learn to understand, on all sorts of levels, more then just with our brain
Mickorod Renard: I am with you there Liza
Liza Deischer: you can't control the flow though
Liza Deischer: it's almost like an identity in itself
Mickorod Renard: for sure, but relentless
Mickorod Renard: I spoze its our fighting against the flow that is so exhausing
Archmage Atlantis: heard there was a chord that David played and it pleased Lord
Wol Euler smiles.
Mickorod Renard: thats a good point Arch
Liza Deischer: relentless has in my opinion to do with the way we approach it
Mickorod Renard: or rather a good string
Liza Deischer: if we try to control it, it is relentless yes
Mickorod Renard: well,,we can hop on and off metaphorically
Liza Deischer: and I guess fear is something that asks for control
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: even death can be seen as an adventure, which can liberate from pending doom and dismay
Liza Deischer: so fear is triggering the thing you shouldn't do, but we do it anyway, control however gives us something that we can explore......
Archmage Atlantis: f...... a cat is bace
Wol Euler: :)
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Alf
Liza Deischer: i'ts not as frigtening as fear is, but exploring fear will give you more of those attached feelings and thoughts
Wol Euler: boxy.
Lia Rikugun: hi alfred
Archmage Atlantis: Meep to u 2 bro
Liza Deischer: hey boxy :)
Alfred Kelberry: wow, woly! amazing dress :)
Alfred Kelberry: hi pablings :)
oO0Oo Resident: life is a box of alfreds
Wol Euler smiles. thank you.
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Liza Deischer: :) Sam
Alfred Kelberry: hey, woly, how about a site "a dress a day" featuring you? :)
Archmage Atlantis: it is alfreds all the way dowm
Wol Euler chuckles.
oO0Oo Resident: !!!

getting a grip or letting go

Mickorod Renard: I suppose its all about ' get a grip'
Liza Deischer: I would say the opposite Mick :)
Archmage Atlantis: after that, beyond infiity, it's boxy
Liza Deischer: hehehe
Mickorod Renard: I am reluctant to go down the control route as that has been by greatest burden
Lia Rikugun: (we are talking about fear, and exploring that emotion and exploring the control of fear)
Alfred Kelberry: has anyone seen ted at waterloo?
Mickorod Renard: nope
Archmage Atlantis: Nope
Wol Euler: no
Alfred Kelberry: ok
Liza Deischer: nope
Archmage Atlantis: Ted wasn't at the waterloo where e exiled Napolinon
Liza Deischer: I hear you Mick
Mickorod Renard: where u say,,the opposite Liza,,I assume u mean letting go,,rather than gripping?
oO0Oo Resident is lost thinking about super model Wol Euler showing off Eshi Otawara'a seasonal new line of style on the catwalk
Alfred Kelberry: sam!
Wol Euler: :))))
Liza Deischer: maybe even let it be, it's there, it's there for a reason
Archmage Atlantis: Hey Sam, didn't s3ee yo arrive
Alfred Kelberry: sam, you should be a producer of this project
Mickorod Renard: yes Liza, i see where you are at now
oO0Oo Resident: heya Arch:)
Archmage Atlantis: cat on cest
oO0Oo Resident: you can prepare miss Euler's make up and such boxy ;)
Alfred Kelberry: easy
Alfred Kelberry: :)
oO0Oo Resident: fear is getting down the catwalk and back on heels
Mickorod Renard: now then,,is it wok in a mom?
Mickorod Renard: I need to have a cigar to subdue my fears
Mickorod Renard: see, i have my tools for fear
Mickorod Renard: brb
Archmage Atlantis: nice kitty
Liza Deischer: (sorry, gets distracted)
oO0Oo Resident smiles and looks at Liza
Archmage Atlantis: 2 minutes
Archmage Atlantis: The Mayan view of time
Alfred Kelberry: 1
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: ok,,gotta go folks,,good chatting
Wol Euler: bye mick, smoke well
Lia Rikugun: byebye
oO0Oo Resident: bye Mick :)
Lia Rikugun: i will leave too, super sleepy
Lia Rikugun: byebye see you all
Wol Euler: goodngiht Lia, sleepwell

at this point I went to bed

Alfred Kelberry: hey!
Alfred Kelberry: i'm going to wok
Alfred Kelberry: good topic today
Alfred Kelberry: woly, let's go
Wol Euler: bye alf
Wol Euler: actually no, I'm not going, too tired
Alfred Kelberry: :/
Alfred Kelberry: aww
Wol Euler: give my regards to everyone there, please
Mar Rodas: by al good talking
Alfred Kelberry: :)
oO0Oo Resident: bye folks
Wol Euler: bye for now, my dears, enjoy your thursdays
Alfred Kelberry: rest well woly glamour girl
oO0Oo Resident: ty ntsy
Liza Deischer: I need to get Avy online and go to the Kira cafe
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: ok, i'm off
Alfred Kelberry: thank you
oO0Oo Resident: :) boxy
Liza Deischer: see you :)
oO0Oo Resident: ntsy Liza
oO0Oo Resident: byeee
oO0Oo Resident: "When you are frightened by something, you have to relate with fear, explore why you are frightened, and develop some sense of conviction. You can actually look at fear. Then fear ceases to be the dominant situation that is going to defeat you. Fear can be conquered. You can be free from fear if you realize that fear is not the ogre. You can step on fear, and therefore, you can attain what is known as fearlessness. But that requires that, when you see fear, you smile." -Chogyam Trungpa Great Eastern Sun