2011.03.25 01:00 - A Puppet Show

The Guardian for this meeting was No Self. The comments are by No Self.

eggsalad Ormstein: heya wol! =hug=
Wol Euler: hello egg!
Wol Euler: nice to see you again
eggsalad Ormstein: it's always good when I see you, dear!
Wol Euler: awww :)
Wol Euler: how are you?
eggsalad Ormstein: very tired. I woke up too early
Wol Euler: oh wow
eggsalad Ormstein: and you?
Wol Euler: you are usually up *late* when you come to the 1am's
eggsalad Ormstein: no, I usually get to bed between 2-3am
Wol Euler: oh, you woke up too early this morning (your time) and have now had a really long day :)
eggsalad Ormstein: right!
Wol Euler: god the roundness of the world still confuses me sometimes, despite geography and topography and *coughs* several decades of experience
eggsalad Ormstein: I always forget that it's *always* tomorrow in Australia, but only *sometimes* tomorrow in europe
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: exactly.
eggsalad Ormstein: and I think some spot in europe is exactly 12 hours off of australia
Wol Euler: portugal maybe, but I think probably not. There are 12 hours between Atlantic Canada and Japan, and five hours between AC and Germany
eggsalad Ormstein: ac?
Wol Euler: so mid-atlantic would be "opposite" Australia
eggsalad Ormstein: oh
Wol Euler: atlantic canada
eggsalad Ormstein: isn't it about 8am in .de?
Wol Euler: 9:12
eggsalad Ormstein: am?
Wol Euler: am
eggsalad Ormstein: well, it's 7am in sydney. that's right close to 12 hours
eggsalad Ormstein: sorry, 7PM in sydney
Wol Euler: oh, I am surprised.
eggsalad Ormstein: germany is 1 hour ahead of UK?
Wol Euler: then you are right, portugal and ireland are probably 12 hrs off
Wol Euler: yes
eggsalad Ormstein: the ones that are 1/2 hour off really mess me up
Wol Euler nods.
eggsalad Ormstein: and a couple oddball places are 3/4 hour off
Wol Euler: that's really strange. Perhaps they just want to be difficult?
eggsalad Ormstein: yes, places like Iran and Burma
Wol Euler: well, there we go :) point proven

--BELL--

eggsalad Ormstein: I'm always leery of "women" with essentially no profile
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Wol Euler: why women in particular?
eggsalad Ormstein: the person in the B&C window
Wol Euler: ah yes, and yet she's ancient, rezzed in 2006
Wol Euler: I am generally dubious of anyone with a blank profile
eggsalad Ormstein: yeah, 5 years, and no profile. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out
Wol Euler: it indicates to me that they don't really grok SL
eggsalad Ormstein: or aren't what they claim to be
Wol Euler smiles. Well, who of us is?
eggsalad Ormstein: I'm pretty much me, rl or sl
Wol Euler: well, the funny thing is that those of us who are serious about SL are like that too, however we embody here
Wol Euler: I've met people from SL in RL, and without exception they are just like they are here
Wol Euler: only the bodies are different
eggsalad Ormstein: yes, I'm no hunk! LOL
Wol Euler: and in my experience the oddness of meeting an unexpected body disappears after a half hour or so
Wol Euler: it's just another avatar form
Wol Euler: it doesn't worry me when Y presents as a wolf or as a bird in SL, why should it worry me when she presents as a man in RL?
eggsalad Ormstein: it's just a puppet show
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: actually I was thinking about identity this morning, about the official outwardly-projected and documented kind of identity
eggsalad Ormstein: and?
Wol Euler: well, when somebody asks me to prove who I am, I show them one of a variety of standardized legal documents
Wol Euler: issued by state authorities.

--BELL--

eggsalad Ormstein: ok, so it's like a bad WWII movie... "Your papers, please!"
Wol Euler: right. ANd these papers are known to be valid. The state guarantees my identity
Wol Euler: it has a monopoly on declaring identification
eggsalad Ormstein: by preventing counterfeiting as best they can
Wol Euler: well, yes, there is that :)
Wol Euler: it struck me this morning, not for the first time, how *new* this comcept of teh state-guaranteed identity is.
eggsalad Ormstein: not only the concept, but the need to do so at all
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: hello obs
observerm Resident: hello
eggsalad Ormstein: omg he/she spoke!
Wol Euler: I'm reading a novel set 150 years ago, in which the hero has to identify himself to a solicitor
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: it does happen :)
Wol Euler: he proves his identity, to the satisfaction of the solicitor, by presenting a hand-written letter from somebody the lawyer doesn't know
Wol Euler: and confirms that by presenting a second hand-written letter from somebody *else* whom the lawyer doesn'T know
eggsalad Ormstein: long ago, when fewer people tried to commit fraud, it was easier
Wol Euler: or perhaps there was less travelling and so less need.
Wol Euler: perhaps the neighbours validated our identities as the state now does
eggsalad Ormstein: fewer people were strangers
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: it's also true (in that book and others, Dickens for examle) that the neighbours used to know *all* about us. Every detail.
eggsalad Ormstein: because there wasn't tv
Wol Euler: heheh
Wol Euler: because there was social continuity
Wol Euler: perhaps "stasis" even
eggsalad Ormstein: now we know all about Paris Hilton
Wol Euler: but nothing about hte old guy across the street
eggsalad Ormstein: the old lady across the street died, and nobody knew for 3 days
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: sad, and sadly typical of the way we live
Wol Euler: we being western urban
eggsalad Ormstein: it's very much worse in my city
Wol Euler: yeah, you talked about that a few weeks back, how there are no "neighbours" in Vegas, just people passing through
eggsalad Ormstein: but, I'm one of them, so I have no basis to complain

--BELL--

Wol Euler: there's a long and dull blog post waiting to be written about this, I think; about the change from identity guaranteed by a stable community, to identity guaranteed by the state
eggsalad Ormstein: bye woll. take care
Wol Euler: bye egg, sleep well