2011.03.06 01:00 - Playtime is not wasted

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning wol
Wol Euler: good morning!
Wol Euler: just got out of bed a few seconds ago :) I nearly missed the session
Wol Euler: give me a few minutes to wash my face and start the coffee machine, please :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: of course, i also just got some more coffee, but i am awake for some time now, i played with technology a little and bought a new gadget
Qt Core: hi all
Wol Euler: hello qt
Wol Euler: happy sunday
Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning qt
Yakuzza Lethecus: did you try riddles app on your phone qt ?
Qt Core: do we have a topic... beyond lazy suday morning start ;-) ?
Qt Core: yes
Qt Core: thr gong is someway too high pitched and low in volume for me to notice it always
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don't have an android device yet, but i remember you mentioning to have one of those
Yakuzza Lethecus: well when i was looking through the gadgets i surround myself with an buy over the time i wonder what i really use and with what i actually spend meaningless time with
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just bought an a2dp headset a few minutes ago and the thoguht on buying senseless stuff came back on
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i was in my thoughts on "hygiene of thought", "settledness" , "privacy" this morning as well
Qt Core: that's better than my post buying feeling... i just fear that there was something better out there

--BELL--

Qt Core: (that's why after each tech shopping i try not to read or know anything about that sector for months) :-)
Wol Euler: a good tip :)
Wol Euler: yaku, shall we continue that discussion on hygiene/settledness?
Wol Euler: because I have the feeling that it didn't really come to a conclusion
Yakuzza Lethecus: actually it's related to the tech shopping in some way, i can spend hours figuring out what else i can do with my gadgets
Yakuzza Lethecus: but often i don't even have any senseful application for it
Yakuzza Lethecus: like figuring out if there is an app able to play mkv files on an ipod while i don't even use video on that thing and i have 4 devices capable of bringing video to the big screen around here too so no need to figure out how to bring the tv out to work as well
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: perhaps there is a need to play, though? I guess that the "figuring out" is a kind of play for you? enjoyable in itself
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, to some extend until the "what have i just done" feeling jumps in
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: self-criticism is hard to avoid
Wol Euler: at least for many of us. We seem programmed to devalue things that we want to do, to consider our playtime as wasted
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, there are always synergetic effects in playing as well of course
Qt Core: and if we don't do it many are ready to do it for us ;-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: figuring out what's possible gives an overfew of how far we are away from being "androids" yet :P
Yakuzza Lethecus: searching things on a gadget by using voice, sensors connected to these things can fully integrate us into social networks anytime
Wol Euler nods.
Qt Core: that's remind me how i enjoyed playing with lego disregarding the instruction, like making spaceships with the medieval kit
Wol Euler grins.
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i was thinking about construction toys too lately
Qt Core: isn't sl, for builders a big construction toy ?
Wol Euler: heheheh, yes.
Yakuzza Lethecus: exactly :)
Wol Euler: ((pause is coming up. Shall we think about the question of why our playtime feels "wasted"? Who judges that? Why?))
Wol Euler: ((just a suggestion))

--BELL--

Yakuzza Lethecus: well it depends, just doing it for myself is great sometimes, still having a community to be playful creates constant reminders
Qt Core: i refuse to let people say i waste my play time, as i have them admit that after that playing i got more relaxed and less abngry
Yakuzza Lethecus: well i think we are wholistic beings, seeing qt let me think on everything i know and head about him and my experiences with him and brings me to a new set of thought and not only to the discussion we have at a particular moment
Wol Euler nods to Qt. Right!
Yakuzza Lethecus: alone in seing qt i think of "startrek,astronomy,android cellphones, his voice and the old bluetooth headset he used"
Yakuzza Lethecus: or the same with you wol
Yakuzza Lethecus: the environments we met
Qt Core: i may amit that the "practical" activity i do are useless ;-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: art, estethics, literature you suggested
Yakuzza Lethecus: all these things come up besides talking about playing
Qt Core: (i have a new bluetooth to try) ;-)
Wol Euler smiles.
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: so being in a group with ppl to whom i have only positive associations usually brings me in a comfortable feeling without being able to do anything about it
Yakuzza Lethecus: back to playfulness i was drifing a little, sry
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: I agree with all of that :) I know that my playtime is good for me, as relaxation and social connection and also as learning
Wol Euler: but even so there are times when I hear an inner voice condemning it as wasteful
Wol Euler: because it isn't work
Wol Euler: because I'm playing when the dishes haven't yet been washed, or whatever :)
Qt Core: since a couple years i got e rl image about that
Wol Euler listens.
Qt Core: a saturday night, playing at my pc at about 23:30... and my mother come to me asking why i wasn't doing something productive
Qt Core: let say i coulsn't stop myself becoming a little angry
Wol Euler chuckles.
Wol Euler: did she have anything specific in mind that you should productively do at 23:30 on a saturday?
Qt Core: you don't dare ask her what there is to do ;-)
Wol Euler: hehehehehhe
Wol Euler: one of those, ok, I see.
Qt Core: lately i was thinking about giving her an android tablet... tonoght at about 3am she asked me about ebooks and how to have them read out to her (as she has sight problemns
Qt Core: )
Wol Euler: good idea.

--BELL--

Qt Core: audiobooks may be good enough, but mp3/cd players have such small buttons
Wol Euler: I think much of this kind of devaluing criticism is inherited from other people, our parents or our teachers or even friends
Wol Euler: the voice that tells me not to enter SL until the dishes are washed, belongs to my mother
Wol Euler: and I know that she in turn inherited the voice from *her* mother!
Qt Core: i think it may be a byproducts of ww2, there was so much to do after that to rebuild the entire life that you could not waste time, the newer generation are better at wasting time :-)
Wol Euler: I hope so, for their sake. I hope they can enjoy play without feeling guilty for it
Yakuzza Lethecus: well sometimes i wonder on what playing is, even work can be playing for some ppl
Wol Euler ponders.
Qt Core: it surely was for me the first years, i often weondered why they gave me money for programming ;-) (i miss that)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but in rethoric it often feels for granted that it's this negative, effortfull thing to bring money back home and it's for granted senseful
Wol Euler: oh yes :)
Qt Core: on the other side there is the danger of thinking that all have to be fun/easy/effortless
Wol Euler: oh, play can be dull and effortful too :)
Wol Euler: I think what makes it play is that we do it by choice, in a place and time that we choose, for our own enjoyment
Qt Core: ok, speaking about not fun... i have to go :-)
Wol Euler: awwww
Wol Euler: bye qt, enjoy the day
Qt Core: bye all and... have fun
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
Wol Euler: yes, yaku, and both of those assumptions are highly questionable
Wol Euler: (negative, effortful, not-wasted)
Wol Euler: so three assumptoins :)
Wol Euler: I think what makes work "holy" -- unquestionable, unchallengable, not-wasted -- is that money changes hands.
Wol Euler: people pay you for working, because your work generates money for them
Wol Euler: or solves a problem for them
Yakuzza Lethecus: for example i often have the feeling that there are some ppl who can't live without their work, the social connections the diversity they are exposed to and it's generaly healty to them pays out, they can write down every hour they do as a working hour and then there are ppl whom do essentially the same things every day and have to be patient to gain diversity
Wol Euler nods.
Yakuzza Lethecus: especially the financial crisis brought a main question up for me, in how far is the banking system helping the real economy or is it an virtual casino in itself which arised from the necessity to have ppl's accepted saved monetary potential transfered to those who can use it better at any point to create something better
Wol Euler nods strongly.
Wol Euler: a fine example of the paradoxical point where work and play meet :)

--BELL--

Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, so many ppl study game theorie non for games but for economics
Wol Euler: it is *of course* work (holy, unchallengeable) because it generates money, so *of course* it can only ever be a totally good thing <<-- sarcasm
Wol Euler: many others, me for example, would say that it is a casino, pure gambling.
Wol Euler: and that it is economically and socially damaging
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods, i remember from that new documentary that won the oscar that the "ratings" are just opinions :P
Yakuzza Lethecus: so in 2007 they gave iceland a++ because otherwise retirement founds wouldn't have bought anymore
Wol Euler: right
Wol Euler: there is a clear conflict of interest there too: the ratings are paid for by the company or country being rated!
Wol Euler: so if Moody won't give Iceland an A++ then they just to to S&P to get it
Yakuzza Lethecus: well this i guess is related to the issue of "trust", trust our governments and in the monetary systems, i wonder in how far i shall have trust in what i do is right
Yakuzza Lethecus: i try to use cheap ways to get like to sweden

We spoke in IM about Sweden, airplanes and ecological footprints for a while.

Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i got to go
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care wol
Wol Euler: bye yaku, enjoy the day.