2011.03.19 01:00 - The private life of cities

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Wol Euler: good morning, egg, zen
Zen Arado: Morning Wol, Egg
eggsalad Ormstein: hi zen
eggsalad Ormstein: hi wol
Zen Arado: haven't had breakfast yet
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: I just finished mine, and have my first cup of coffee at hand
Zen Arado: yes you are an hour later tho :)
Wol Euler: true
Wol Euler: I find it early enough, though.
Zen Arado: dragged myself out of bed to talk to study buddy
Zen Arado: doing an OU course together
Wol Euler: oh, cool

--BELL--

Zen Arado: only a short one
Wol Euler: ((OU is a British correspondence-study university))
Zen Arado: 'distance learning' they prefer to call it :)
Wol Euler: ah, yes, that's the expression I was struggling for :)
Zen Arado: it gave me my chance for education anyway
Wol Euler: you and many ohters
Zen Arado: I am very indebted to it
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: http://www.open.ac.uk/
Zen Arado: working class kids didn't have much opportunity for higher education in my day
Zen Arado: only about 5% got to uni in those days
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Zen Arado: took me 12 yars to do first degree
Wol Euler: "the largest university in europe", it says here. wow.
Zen Arado: yes and becoming an alternative for younger ppl who can't afford fees at conventional universities
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: going back to rich ppl only education
Wol Euler: being able to take a course at your own pace is an enormous advantage
Wol Euler: good morning, obs
Zen Arado: yes if you are busy in a job
Zen Arado: what are you up to egg?
eggsalad Ormstein: I'm very tired. I haven't been sleeping well
Zen Arado: oh?
Wol Euler: I'm sorry to hear that. What's up?
eggsalad Ormstein: lol, if I knew why, I could fix it!
Zen Arado: yeh works like that sometimes
Zen Arado: too much energy maybe
Wol Euler chuckles.
Zen Arado: Vegas is a place that stays awake 24 hours
eggsalad Ormstein: that's true only for tourists
Wol Euler: :)
Zen Arado: ah ok
Zen Arado: but you need some workers to do that too?
Zen Arado: imagine staying up all nught feeding a slot machine :)
Wol Euler: people do
eggsalad Ormstein: people work all day, but most people who work have very ordinary lives. I've worked all 3 shifts, and it's all the same, once you adjust
Zen Arado: I did shify work for years
Wol Euler: others stay up until late in the morning playing in virtual worlds (coughs)
Zen Arado: true :)
Zen Arado: not shifty work - shift work :)
Wol Euler grins.
Zen Arado: in power stations
Zen Arado: we had horrible shifts too
Zen Arado: you started at 12 midnight on Sat and did 7 nightshifts
eggsalad Ormstein: I work 3p-11p now
Zen Arado: then you couldn't sleep at night for 2 or 3 days when it finished
Zen Arado: yeh

--BELL--

Zen Arado: we never got any sleep on nightshifts either
Zen Arado: ppl think you do
Zen Arado: you had to be alert
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: I worked nightshift on a printing press for a few summers while I was studying.
Wol Euler: the shift boss *did* sleep, but nobody else could. He'd get the press running to his satisfaction and then hide in the paper store
Zen Arado: I think nurses sleep in hospitals at night
Wol Euler: I hope they do.
Zen Arado: not if you need one in the middle of the night :)
Wol Euler: well, there are buzzers etc
Zen Arado: but always one or two awake
Zen Arado: yeh
eggsalad Ormstein: I like working 3-11
Zen Arado: better than 11 to 7 anyway
eggsalad Ormstein: well, I am averse to waking early, always have been
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: sounds like a good match for you, then :)
Zen Arado: think I am just averse to waking
Wol Euler: ha!
Zen Arado: used to find it hard to get up at 5 pm after sleeping all day
Zen Arado: and then try to eat dinner
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: wonders if Vegas is hit by recession
eggsalad Ormstein: pretty bad, but things are picking up already
Zen Arado: nods
Wol Euler: that's good
Zen Arado: the fear makes ppl stop spending for a bit
Zen Arado: then go back to old patterns
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: understandable, really (both parts of that)
eggsalad Ormstein: we live on people's discretionary spending. not so much of that lately
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: gambling is the luxury part
eggsalad Ormstein: holidays at all are a luxury
Wol Euler: yep
Zen Arado: but lots of great entertainment in Vegas too
Zen Arado: yeh
eggsalad Ormstein: but a lot of our visitors on on conventions, as well
Zen Arado: like ppl stop eating out here
Zen Arado: and then taxi drivers suffer
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: there was one for a muscular dystrophy group i know
eggsalad Ormstein: but, the recession also made a lot of residents leave, thinning out the workforce
Wol Euler: huh
Zen Arado: but too difficult for me to go to

--BELL--

Zen Arado: think I'll slip away and have breakfast
Zen Arado: bye
Wol Euler: bye zen, enjoy the weekend
Zen Arado: you too
eggsalad Ormstein: it's another 22 hours til my weekend starts :(
Wol Euler: yeah, but it'll still be going on when ours have finished
eggsalad Ormstein: it has it's benefits
Wol Euler smiles.
eggsalad Ormstein: having a day off on a weekday comes in handy for things like banking & doctor visits
Wol Euler: absolutely
Wol Euler: I'd much rather have a day off during the week than on Sunday
eggsalad Ormstein: it's also just easier to get errands run on a weekday
Wol Euler: right
Wol Euler: I'm always curious about the "private life" of cities like Vegas (or Venice in Italy) that live on tourism
Wol Euler: where do the locals meet? surely not on the Strip!
eggsalad Ormstein: no, just like any tourist attraction in any city, the locals avoid or ignore it
Wol Euler nods.
eggsalad Ormstein: unless they have to chaperone visitors, which everyone hates doing :(
Wol Euler: heheh
eggsalad Ormstein: but, there are neighborhoods here, just like anywhere
Wol Euler: I guess you have a local bar, where people know you and tourists seldom drop in?
eggsalad Ormstein: a thousand of them, two on every block!
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: even in the neighbourhoods? :)
Wol Euler: I suppose that's true here too, actually. There are ... four or five bars within 200m of my home
eggsalad Ormstein: and many people work in the support businesses, and have perfectly normal lives
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: that's what I meant, actually. It's like a parallel world running beside the tourist stream
Wol Euler: slower, quieter, and generally a much nicer place
eggsalad Ormstein: I do work in the tourist business, but many people go months or more without seeing The Strip
eggsalad Ormstein: but this is a city without community
Wol Euler listens.
eggsalad Ormstein: mostly people move here because of greed, it does not make for good neighbors
Wol Euler: well, I'm sorry to hear that. I was hoping, when you spoke of neighbourhood, that this would not be the case
eggsalad Ormstein: it's also very transient, people come and go. I will leave as soon as I can
eggsalad Ormstein: maybe 7 more years
Wol Euler: hmmmm

--BELL--

Wol Euler: hard to build a community in those circumstances
eggsalad Ormstein: yes, no one votes here, no one knows the people they live near, etc
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: where I live is the opposite of that, I know everyone in my building to speak to and probably 3/4 of my neighbours by sight
Wol Euler: it's a very stable community
eggsalad Ormstein: I do long for that, but in my field, I can make 2x-3x more money here than anywhere else
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: sure, you have to live where the work is
Wol Euler: I'm very lucky in that respect, I can walk to work (uphill) or downtown (downhill)
eggsalad Ormstein: that is convenient!
Wol Euler: Stuttgart is a great city, very nice to live in.
Wol Euler: it's not beautiful, but it has all htat you need in a very small, dense, package
Wol Euler: I can walk downtown in 20 minutes, or I can walk the ohter way and be alone in the forest in 20 minutes
eggsalad Ormstein: that's almost unknown in the USA
Wol Euler nods.
eggsalad Ormstein: but you can get Merceds parts cheap :)
Wol Euler: oh yes :)
Wol Euler: though even here "cheap" is relative :)
Wol Euler: and you know, there is even local patriotism within GErmany :)
eggsalad Ormstein: I even order parts direct from Germany. Even with the shipping, it's cheaper than buying them here
Wol Euler: people would rather buy a locally made car (Mercedes) than one made in Bavaria!
Wol Euler: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...05992&t=k&z=18
eggsalad Ormstein: it certainly does look dense
Wol Euler smiles.
eggsalad Ormstein: do you build them?
Wol Euler: only Amsterdam is denser, I believe
Wol Euler: and yes, we do
Wol Euler: these are older, my building dates from 1912
eggsalad Ormstein: no, I mean, you personally
Wol Euler: if you want to see downtown, scroll right about three pages worth
Wol Euler: um, we do very little housing htese days, the market has slowed drastically
Wol Euler: we did, and it was fun
eggsalad Ormstein: I think they used to be better, I had some older ones from -77 or so
Wol Euler: oh, wait, you mean cars :)
Wol Euler laughs.
eggsalad Ormstein: indeed
Wol Euler: hehehehehehhe, sorry. I'm an architect
eggsalad Ormstein: but all the buildings are already built!!
Wol Euler: I know quite a few people who work at Daimler or in one of its suppliers
Wol Euler: the daimler group is by far the largest company in the state
eggsalad Ormstein: I'm sure. It's like knowing someone here who works on the Strip
Wol Euler: right
Wol Euler: they build everything, which I didn't know until I came here. THe cars and trucks and busses are a big part of it, of course
Wol Euler: but they also build satellites and trains, and a fifth of the Airbus, and submarines (not here!)
eggsalad Ormstein: I'll still take the 1977 240D
Wol Euler: yeah, me too :)
eggsalad Ormstein: well, an architect has a good eye for simple design beauty!

--BELL--

Wol Euler: some do, not all
Wol Euler: we have our share of idiots too, like every profession
eggsalad Ormstein: but you are one of the good ones!
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: I like to think so.
Wol Euler: we certainly try to be
eggsalad Ormstein: if you ask a child to draw a car with crayons, chances are good it will look like an old 240D. To me, that is pure design :)
Wol Euler nods and smiles.
Wol Euler: they'll run forever too, unless you get into an accident.
eggsalad Ormstein: and they'll still run!
Wol Euler: yeah, but parts would be a problem after that
eggsalad Ormstein: here, we had a rust problem, in cold cities
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: salt on the roads
eggsalad Ormstein: but now I live in a dry climate. One of my coworkers has an -83 with 500 000 km
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: I don't think I could live comfortably in a city like Vegas or LA, where one *has* to use a car to get around
Wol Euler: I've always lived in cities with excellent public transport
eggsalad Ormstein: both of our worlds would be unfathomable to the other
Wol Euler nods.

--BELL--

Wol Euler: hello Visitor
Wol Euler: have you been here before?
Visitor: no
Visitor: I was at philosphy house but nobody seems to go there any more
Wol Euler: this is a meditation group meeting (in theory :)
Wol Euler: oh, they meet irregularly now, I think only every 2 weeks
Visitor: thats too bad, It was very good, any more like it?
Wol Euler: probably, yes :)
Wol Euler: philosophers' roadhouse is one that comes to mind
Wol Euler: some of us go there
Visitor: great
Wol Euler: they meet weekly, I think
eggsalad Ormstein: well, speaking of going, it is time for me to sleep
Wol Euler: with theme discussions
Wol Euler: goodnight egg, take care. Enjoy your weekend
Visitor: ok, thanks for the info I guess Ill keep exploring.
Wol Euler: enjoy :)
Wol Euler: I'll move on as well. Bye recorder, bye obs.