2009.01.05 19:00 - 3D visualization technology

Threedee Shepherd was GOC for this session it is essentially a one-to-one conversation about the technologies of 3D visualization, and never moved to more relevant PaB concerns.


Threedee Shepherd: Hello Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: hi 3D
Tarmel Udimo: how are u today
Threedee Shepherd: Fine, thanks, and you?
Tarmel Udimo: very gd
Tarmel Udimo: have you always had a lion for an avatar?
Threedee Shepherd: No, I started as a human that looks a bit like me, and don't use that now except for "business" meetings
Tarmel Udimo: okay and 3D Immersive Visualization? is this SL or something more intense?
Threedee Shepherd: both.
Threedee Shepherd: Most of the work turns out to be in SL, and soon OpenSim, though some is RL projection.
Tarmel Udimo: can you explain more for those of us who are wanna bes
Tarmel Udimo: but have no idea where to begin
Tarmel Udimo: ie creating in sl etc
Threedee Shepherd: what would you like me to explain?
Tarmel Udimo: well what's an open sim?
Threedee Shepherd: OpenSim is a project that allows anyone to mount an SL type of world on the Web, using open source software and not needing to use SL to do so.
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Threedee Shepherd: It is an international open source software collaboration that is very far along.
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Threedee Shepherd: Companies that want t 3D, Sim-type website to display their product or services, and others, who do not need or want the SL environment and all that comes along with it, are starting to use OpenSim.
Threedee Shepherd: Initially, it looks and feels just like SL, but the software is more "modern" and modular.
Tarmel Udimo: modern and modular?
Tarmel Udimo: hey crusty...
Threedee Shepherd: hi crusty
Tarmel Udimo: and the problem with SL? Ownership?
Crusty Goldshark: hi
Tarmel Udimo: :-)
Tarmel Udimo: 3D is explaing to me what he does in RL
Threedee Shepherd: In SL you pay higher fees than the cost of an OpenSim installation. Also you have all of the mature content, and the Terms of Service. You can'tr have people under 18.
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Tarmel Udimo: and now RL projection?
Threedee Shepherd: You can use to projectors to present three-dimensional stereoscopic scenes on a screen, that the viewer sees in 3D due to appropriate polarized glasses. T
Tarmel Udimo: like IMAX cinemas?
Threedee Shepherd: Sort of, but if done a certain way it is a scene with actual depth.
Tarmel Udimo: and the viewer feels like they are actualy and inhabiting the same space?
Threedee Shepherd: yes
Tarmel Udimo: and what about the avatars within the space?
Threedee Shepherd: They can be contrrolled in normal SL fashion
Tarmel Udimo: okay - there was an interesting talk in the Kira cafe about SL theatre is that its use?
Threedee Shepherd: Could be. Any and everything is possible.
Tarmel Udimo: and how do you use it or plan to use it?
Threedee Shepherd: Well, we have one client who is going to use it to build a restaurant in which hwe will do cognitive therapy for women with eating disordeers.
Tarmel Udimo: wow
Tarmel Udimo: this is fantastic..
Tarmel Udimo: other examples?
Threedee Shepherd: We can build scenes in software other than SL, such as standard 3D display and gaming software, and then display it full size. We are discussing the possibility of displays in museums or ancient ruins that I reconstructed.
Threedee Shepherd: *of ancient
Tarmel Udimo: hummm that makes sense - lovely...
Threedee Shepherd: We also used it to display the use of a specific medical project at a trade show, for a client.
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Threedee Shepherd: Any product too bulky or costly to bring to a trade show can be presented in the virtual 3D manner.
Tarmel Udimo: yes well of course in the cinema this use of CGI has become full blown and i am assuming tha t we will eventually be having CGI theaters and films
Threedee Shepherd: Yes, there already are 3D movies in theaters that the audience views through special glasses. That was done 30 years ago, but now the technology is MUCH better
Tarmel Udimo: yes i've been to a few...
Tarmel Udimo: its stil clunky because of having to where glasses
Threedee Shepherd: It can also be done in your homw with expensive screens that will come down in price
Tarmel Udimo: I was thinking more of what you're doing a creating a 3d world within which to veiw the film itself...
Tarmel Udimo: *view
Threedee Shepherd: There is a technology that does not need the glasses, but it is not very good. It is not clear whether it can be improved, or has inherent limitations--time will tell.
Tarmel Udimo: hi adelene
Threedee Shepherd: Hi Luv
Adelene Dawner flops down. "Hi, folks."
Threedee Shepherd: Adelene works with me on the SL and soon the OpenSim stuff
Tarmel Udimo: great - thought there was a bond there - aftre all you are both lions:-)
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
Threedee Shepherd: I have been answering Tarmel's questions about what 3DE does in RL and VirtualLife
Adelene Dawner: ah ^.^
Tarmel Udimo: yes and been very patience with me...
Threedee Shepherd: I love talking about all this, it helps spread the word and raise consciousness about possibilities for things beyond games, although games are fun, too.
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Tarmel Udimo: yes so is it using scripting or like creating using a 3d software program as in CGI
Threedee Shepherd: In SL and OpenSim it is scripting. In RL, various 3D CGI software is used.
Threedee Shepherd: Though SL can also be projected in 3D in RL
Tarmel Udimo: and what kind of scripting?
Threedee Shepherd: Right now SL uses LindenScriptingLanguage LSL, and OpenSim uses a version that is similar and totally compatable.
Threedee Shepherd: However, LSL is not a great language, and there are people writring plugins for OpenSim that use other languages, such as Ruby.
Threedee Shepherd: Also, there are now translators for most 3D CGI programs that allow them to be projected directly in 3D stereo.
Tarmel Udimo: wow
Tarmel Udimo: hummm so when Sl was created they had to create a new language and can anyone use it or do you have to pay to uses it?
Threedee Shepherd: People are predicting that in 10 years (or less) it will be commmon for current Web sites to have a 3D component.
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: not just little vidoe clips we can downlaod
Tarmel Udimo: *video
Threedee Shepherd: Linden Labs made the SL browser open source about 10 months ago, so it is free. The OpenSim folks did an entire reverse engineering approach, so the open source code is free and not owned by Linden
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Threedee Shepherd: no not clips. More like the web site for a company will have a 3D Sim attached to it, and a single browser will access both normal web sites and the 3D Sim-like ones.
Tarmel Udimo: I get it
Tarmel Udimo: sounds wonderful
Tarmel Udimo: I guess the question is - is anyone testing the effects on the body and mind of spending long periods of time in a 3d environment like SL?
Threedee Shepherd: Yes
Tarmel Udimo: or would you call that virtual?
Threedee Shepherd: The effects are similar to being in roughly equivalent settings in the real world, not surprisingly.
Adelene Dawner had a nice massage from Moon earlier... very relaxing. ^.^
Tarmel Udimo: ohI did some yoga ;-)
Squee: I love you, but love is not a one way street.
Threedee Shepherd: Certain projection techniques can cause headaches and even the best can cause eyestrain for a very small minority of people
Tarmel Udimo: but what about at the molecular level - wouldn't we become a different type of species if we're sepnding time not being active and basically just being there
Threedee Shepherd: and about 3% of people cannot "see" the dimensionality (depth) due to congenital birth defects of the visuqal system.
Tarmel Udimo: hummm what effect does that have in RL
Threedee Shepherd: Interestingly, if you are there as an Avatar that is active, you actually do get a fraction of the RL benefits. Of course, muscle atrophy is possible, but we already have that with TV ^.^
Tarmel Udimo: smiles
Threedee Shepherd: In RL, those people use what are called "secondary depth cues" to judge distance and the relationships of objects. However, they cannot easily do fine motor tasks near their body, such a threading a needle.
Tarmel Udimo: Okay, another thought - I was thinking that eventually 50 years from now say when a child has spent most of their time in a place like SL they might develop different functions within the brain for instance
Threedee Shepherd: Yes, that is possible and has strong downsides. IN RL your complete body--neuromuscular system--interacts with the world in ways that are critical to brain development in the first 5 years of life that are matched to the real environment. in fact...
Threedee Shepherd: there are psychologists who suggest that children should NOT use a mouse and computer until age 4-5, so that their brains will properly tune to the external real environment.
Adelene Dawner chuckles. "That explains me, then."
Tarmel Udimo: ahh adeleene I thought we had lost you... ;-)
Tarmel Udimo: I think I agree with that - its like getting a child to crawl before they are ready
Adelene Dawner is pondering going to bed, but...
Tarmel Udimo: mind-body practioners suggest that the brain is developed through the crawling (reptilian) stage and its important for the fight/flight survival mechanism
Adelene Dawner: Actually you're not too far from another known phenomenon there, Tarmel... one of the things that happens sometimes with kids who develop oddly (as my brother and I both did) is that they skip crawling and go right to walking, often early... that's actually not a good thing, because the kids miss skills that way.
Tarmel Udimo: yes just mentioned that
Threedee Shepherd: Yes Tarmel, and that makes perfect sense.
Adelene Dawner was typing as you were typing.
Tarmel Udimo: on the smale beam - check out bonnie bainbridge cohen sshe works with all the body systems and has started working with babies... to change some fo their patterns from an early stage
Tarmel Udimo: *same
Tarmel Udimo: so what skills do you feel you have missed out on adelene?
Adelene Dawner: I'm pretty clumsy - lots of movement stuff just never clicked.
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Tarmel Udimo: have you gone into doing any workshops to correct this or its just not that bad?
Tarmel Udimo: but i bet you're very bright thugh :-)
Tarmel Udimo: though
Threedee Shepherd: Tarmel, there are many people--including me--who have difficulty telling left from right in instantaneous situations. It has been suggested that not crawling long enough may be related to that deficit.
Tarmel Udimo: though
Tarmel Udimo: humm interesting
Adelene Dawner: mmm... I've had a bad enough experience with medical professionals that talking to them about that kind of thing is quite low on my priority list.
Threedee Shepherd: Crawling has an accociated automatic left-right head movement
Threedee Shepherd: *associated
Tarmel Udimo: ohh sorry I meant something more akin to what bonnie does ... not into the medical profession at all
Adelene Dawner: ?
Tarmel Udimo: makes sense re reptilian movement
Tarmel Udimo: http://www.bodymindcentering.com/
Tarmel Udimo: makes sense re reptilian movement and crawling
Adelene Dawner checks out the url.
Tarmel Udimo: okay - well on that note I am off to RL - but it has been great picking your brain 3DE
Adelene Dawner: :)
Threedee Shepherd: Yes, Tarmel, that kind of "bodywork" can be very effecrtive.
Tarmel Udimo: and welcome back adelene I think you have moved?
Threedee Shepherd: Any time, Tarmel. See you again. ^.^
Adelene Dawner: Not yet - couple more days.
Tarmel Udimo: okay well gd luck and see you at the next PaB