2009.01.24 01:00 - Being's Database

Scathach Rhiadra was the guardian on call.  Comments are hers.

I arrived at the pavilion and was soon joined by Wol..

Wol Euler: hello invisible person
Scathach Rhiadra: Good morning Wol:)
Wol Euler: ah, it's you :)
Wol Euler: hello scath
Wol Euler: I could see a green dot on the map but nobody in the viewer.
Scathach Rhiadra: ah
Wol Euler: that was a great discussion at Kira last night, about the pheno workshop
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it was probably the best discussion we have had so far:)
Wol Euler: (sorry, I just rememberd something. I'll have to log out for a minute or two. brb!)
Scathach Rhiadra: ok

Wol had to log out for a moment, but was soon back again.......

Wol Euler is Offline
Wol Euler is Online
Scathach Rhiadra: wb:)
Wol Euler: ty :)

.....and we continued our discussion of the Pheno workshopthe previous night.....

Scathach Rhiadra: yes, the discussion last night, it was good with not so many interruptions and speculations
Wol Euler: it continued for a long time afterwards too, it was 2am before I gave up and went to bed
Wol Euler: 5pm I guess
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, I was so tired I just had to leave and go to bed
Scathach Rhiadra: looks like I missed the best bit:)
Wol Euler nods. I should have done, I am very lacklustre this morning.
Wol Euler: it was more social chat, but circling around the idea of pheno. When did you leave? I can't remember, before or after Gilles started gnawing on Tree's bones?
Scathach Rhiadra: haha, pretty much at the official end of the discussion
Scathach Rhiadra: would like to have seen Gilles do that:)
Wol Euler: the recorder was running the whole time, perhaps it will be included in the log ;-)
Wol Euler: the last half hour turned unpleasant, Gilles and a newcomer H3thr got into an argument about whether men are dolts and whether women are sloppy thinkers.
Wol Euler: Gilles is unable to understand that words have an emotional charge.
Scathach Rhiadra: hmm, yet he gets emotional himself about words
Wol Euler: true.
Wol Euler: but that is different!
Wol Euler: heheheh
Scathach Rhiadra: haha
Scathach Rhiadra: so, are you going to do the explorations?
Wol Euler: probably, yes. I have been following along as a lay visitor, as it were. When it started, I was in Canada, I couldn't get into SL and didn't have hte emotional cycles to spare for working on pheno.
Wol Euler: so I have a lot of catching up to do.
Wol Euler: but it does sound very interesting, and I will start.
Scathach Rhiadra: I am glad we have moved on to a different exploration this week
Wol Euler: you were getting tired of the stick?
Scathach Rhiadra: no, I think it is still finding our stick...
Scathach Rhiadra: but the 3 experiments about being seen, I seem to have gotten stuck in a rut, so to speak
Scathach Rhiadra: maybe a slightly different focus would be good
Wol Euler nods
Scathach Rhiadra: for me at least:)

Wol then explained the enhancement Fael had made to the autologging system.....

Wol Euler: I just checked in the timetable to see who was GoC, because I thought this was Gaya's session
Scathach Rhiadra: heehee
Wol Euler: Fael has added a new feature to the autologging, as we discussed before christmas.
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Wol Euler: if you click on the master unit (the base of the fountain) it will identify you as guardian
Wol Euler: (right-click and "touch")
PaB Listener Master: Scathach Rhiadra has just claimed the session and will receive link to the log after the session is done. This replaces any previous claim.
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, very neat:)
Wol Euler: when the session ends, it'll send you in IM a link to the autologging database.
Wol Euler: you can copy the content of that page for your log on the wiki. It's alredy cleaned of times and "Fred is online" and such things.
Scathach Rhiadra: of very good, then I could turn times back on for my own logging
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: you should continue to use the SL log files though (I'm speaking to the group now)
Wol Euler: because there are some unaddressed problems in it still, which may cause it to miss parts of some sessions.
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, so to be sure fo having the complete log, continue as is
Wol Euler: yes, at least for the time being. The sensor that detects the presence of avatars is not robust enough, it is adversely affected by lag on the sim.
Wol Euler: I haven't found a reliable way to work around that yet.
Scathach Rhiadra: I'm sure you will:)
Wol Euler: thank you for your confidence, but the root problem is in SL itself...

.....which led us to discuss SL and the huge undertaking involved in making changes to the system.....

Scathach Rhiadra: as are a lot of problems, its a pity it is so unstable
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: I've been reading the SL blog about the changes they've been making. It's a huge undertaking, they have a massive amount of data to store and retrieve
Wol Euler: most of it is never used from one month to the next, but the parts that are called for must be immediately available.
Wol Euler: and with user-generated data and our inventories in our backpacks, there is no way to predict what will be called for next.
Wol Euler: people sometimes put on outfits just because they haven't worn them for many months!
Scathach Rhiadra: heh
Wol Euler: very hard to predict that happening...
Wol Euler: in detail, I mean, to have that outfit ready to hand.
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, its a mind boggling amount of data:)
Scathach Rhiadra: and everytime someone tps to an empty sim, it has to rezz very quickly
Wol Euler: mmhmm

.....and a previous session discussing 'the emptiness of sims', leading to 'Being's Database'.....

Wol Euler: there's an intersting log coming up btw, from thursday 1pm, we talked about the emptiness of sims and what is "there" when there's no av nearby to see it
Wol Euler: If there's no one logged on to Second Life, does it still exist?
Scathach Rhiadra: ha, sounds very Buddhist:)
Wol Euler: indeed, a strange hybrid cross between Buddhism and database optimization.
Wol Euler: "we are all just records in Being's database"
Scathach Rhiadra: I look forward to reading it:)
Scathach Rhiadra: hmm, that sounds nice, 'records in Being's database'
Wol Euler: it puts our selfimportance into a different perspective ...
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Wol Euler: every philosophical age has had its model of the universe: a potter's wheel, a clock; why not a database?
Wol Euler: a non-physical model though, seeing us as "content" and "meaning" rather than objects
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I like that analogy
Wol Euler smiles
Wol Euler: its particularly true in SL of course, where all we know of each other is our minds
Wol Euler: "know" in the sense of "can be certain of the essential truth of"
Wol Euler: given the way many of us change hairstyle or species daily
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: it is a great coming together of minds, probably what attracts a lot of people here
Wol Euler: oh yes, definitely.
Wol Euler: it's a social concentrator, no doubt about that.
Wol Euler: how would we have met in RL?
Scathach Rhiadra: probably would not:)
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: it'll be very interesting to meet the RL avs of our friends here, in Berkeley this summer

.....and plans for summer retreats.....

Scathach Rhiadra: ah, the retreat?
Wol Euler: yes
Wol Euler: are you going?
Scathach Rhiadra: no, I had already booked to go see the Dalai Lama a few times this summer in Europe, before I heard of the retreat
Wol Euler: ah right! I saw your discussion of that with Gaya.
Scathach Rhiadra: only so much holiday time
Wol Euler: I am sorely tempted to try to attend his talk in Frankfurt
Scathach Rhiadra: its only 2 days teachings and a public talk
Wol Euler: you are attending more htan one, I infer?
Wol Euler: phone brb
Wol Euler: back, sorry
Scathach Rhiadra: well, he is getting on in years and won't be able to continue travelling so much for much longer, so I try to get to see him as much as possible when I still have the chance
Wol Euler nods.
Scathach Rhiadra: do you think the PaB retreats will become a regular thing?
Wol Euler: hard to say, I think much would depend on how this one goes.
Wol Euler: the question of whether PaB itself will become a regular thing may still be open :)
Scathach Rhiadra: heh:)
Wol Euler: all is change, as they say.
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Wol Euler: but I am summoned to work and must depart.
Wol Euler: nice to see you scath, enjoy your saturday.
Scathach Rhiadra: ok, it was very nice talking to you, enjoy your day:)
Wol Euler smiles. Bye, take care.
Scathach Rhiadra: namasté