Page last modified 13:23, 9 Apr 2010 by corvi
2009.01.26 13:00 - Dance, Art, Meditation
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The Guardian for this meeting was Stim Morane. Title suggested by Corvi.
Wol Euler chuckles. Hello susi, stim, I didn't see you arrive
Susi Alcott: Hi Stim, Wol
Stim Morane: Hi Wol, Susi
Stim Morane: It's OK, I was enjoying watching you, Wol
Wol Euler laughs and blushes
Susi Alcott: :)
Wol Euler: I've just got a dance chimera, I was trying it out
Stim Morane: Your balance on those high-heel shoes is impressive
Wol Euler: hehehehe, if I could dance that well in RL ...
Wol Euler: brb
Wol Euler: I had made a cup of tea but left it sitting in the kitchen. That's not much use!
Stim Morane: try again
Stim Morane: we'll wait
Wol Euler: no, I've got it now. It's still hot
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim, Wol:)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz
Fefonz Quan: Hey Stim, Wol, Scath
Stim Morane: Hi Schathach, Fefonz
Wol Euler: hello scath, fefonz
Stim Morane: *Scathach
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Fefonz Quan: what's the SL term for teeth breaking
Scathach Rhiadra: ?
Wol Euler: as in "learning"?
Fefonz Quan: (when it's hard to pronounce something)
Wol Euler: or "painful damage"=
Wol Euler: ah
Wol Euler: finger-twisting?
Fefonz Quan: :)
Stim Morane: strangely, one expression is to "cut your teeth on"
Fefonz Quan: yes, that sounds close to the version i know. (not in english though)
Stim Morane: Yes, I've heard it all my life, but can't explain it.
Stim Morane: English is an odd language
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Fefonz Quan: it could be even...
Wol Euler: my favourite phrase to illustrate the oddness of English is "plough through tough dough".
Wol Euler: identical spelling, utterly differnt pronunciation.
Stim Morane: Yes, there are many such illustrations of the pronunciation irregularities
Scathach Rhiadra: a baby cuts its teeth by chewing on things, maybe that iswhere it comes from
Fefonz Quan: which witch watch which watch?
Stim Morane: Yes, you're likely right, Scathach
Fefonz Quan nods
Fefonz Quan: Hey Susi :)
Wol Euler: wb susi
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Susi
Stim Morane: Hi again, Susi
Fefonz Quan: he'smelting...
Susi Alcott: crashed
Stim Morane: so it wasn't a sl problem?
Susi Alcott: Hi all
Wol Euler: ah, what's the word for the transformation of ice into vapour without passing through the water stage? that's what Susi is doing :)
Wol Euler: trans... hmmmmmm
Stim Morane: sublimation
Wol Euler: right! thank you stim!
Stim Morane: So, does anyone have a hot discussion topic today? Or is that it? :)
Scathach Rhiadra: how about Art, and why it is so important to people?
Stim Morane: Great topic. Could you start?
Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, I spent a lot of time this weekend looking at Buddhist art for Adam's exhibition...
Stim Morane: Oh, I missed hearing about that exhibit.
Stim Morane: Where/when is it?
Scathach Rhiadra: it got me thinking how creativity fits into the human experience
Scathach Rhiadra: I think it is due to open early Frb, in Ruel
Susi Alcott: sry; RL alert call this time
Scathach Rhiadra: Feb*
Susi Alcott: _/!\_
Fefonz Quan: more apecific coordinates? :)
Wol Euler: bye susi, take care
Scathach Rhiadra: bye
Stim Morane: bye Susi
Wol Euler: in the Hall of Appearances, right?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes that is it:0
Stim Morane: I didn't realize Adams was interested in Buddhist Art.
Scathach Rhiadra: the exhibition is sacred art and structures in virtual worlds, SL
Stim Morane: I see.
Stim Morane: Great
Scathach Rhiadra: all religions are represented
Stim Morane: I was thinking of doing a lecture or two on Buddhist Art somewhere here ...
Stim Morane: But nothing is scheduled yet.
Fefonz Quan: that sounds very interesting, stim
Wol Euler: yes indeed
Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)
Wol Euler: perhaps timed to coincide with the exhibition?
Stim Morane: It's an odd topic, because that art is not always very "artful" in the sense Scathach is mentioning.
Stim Morane: It is designed to address other issues
Stim Morane: I'll check about that idea, Wol
Scathach Rhiadra: true, but all art seems to mean so much to people, just got me thinking why
Stim Morane: Yes, love the topic
Fefonz Quan: matbe it's just another way of communication
Stim Morane: Scathach, are you including things like music here?
Fefonz Quan: (excuse my use of "just")
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, and theatre, liturature
Scathach Rhiadra: literature*
Stim Morane: OK, the very broad sense of art, then.
Stim Morane: Good
Fefonz Quan: it can be a way to express the huma experience that transcends word, or "direct" informatin
Stim Morane: yes. And shares high-level insights very well too.
Fefonz Quan: by using symbols, body language, and all other abstract to non-abstract forms
Fefonz Quan: yes, trying to po9int to the unexpressable iusing different means
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Fefonz Quan: not to forget, that some kind of art try more directly to "imitate" life
Fefonz Quan: (or document in a way)
Stim Morane: yes, and to help us renew our own understanding and appreciation of it
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, good art can 'touch' us in a very profound way, either for good or bad
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Fefonz Quan: though some of it keeps us entertained, saved us from boredome
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler: well, there are the divisions of "high" and "low" art, not to mention good and bad
Fefonz Quan: (not to mention getting the girls for the performers) :)
Scathach Rhiadra: ha:)
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Fefonz Quan was pointing to the motivation of the artists, that might be quite egoistic and non-divine at all
Scathach Rhiadra: I suppose SL could be concidered a type of art
Stim Morane: I was wondering about that ... is that what you all think?
Fefonz Quan: or a platform for art?
Wol Euler nods. The 3d-building of NPIRL for instance, is definitely art.
Wol Euler: IMHO
Fefonz Quan: i think it is more like the canvas then the painting
Scathach Rhiadra: and all the avs are the artists?
Fefonz Quan: not all, just teh ones that create art
Fefonz Quan: not me, for example
Wol Euler: I'd guess that we are more artified than our RL selves, in most cases.
Wol Euler grins at Fefonz.
Fefonz Quan: Fefonz Quan: not me, for example
Fefonz Quan: ;-)
Wol Euler: indeed
Scathach Rhiadra: but you participate in the creations:0
Fefonz Quan: if you go on with that Wol, i'll remind you that you said you'd take me for shopping one day :)
Wol Euler: I suppose it depends what people want to get out of SL. Some use it simply as a tool to enable them to meet people.
Wol Euler: the offer stands, whenever you wish.
Stim Morane: I win the "most boring avatar" contest.
Scathach Rhiadra: :))
Wol Euler: why is that, Stim?
Stim Morane: or maybe not ...
Stim Morane: :)
Fefonz Quan: just pick the time, Wol
Stim Morane: The world is art, for me ... just taking a walk down the street counts.
Fefonz Quan: doesn't it difuse the meaning of the word in a sense?
Stim Morane: But "art" is a tricky category. And what Scachach is emphasizing goes beyond what I usually concentrate on most.
Stim Morane: Yes.
Wol Euler: I'll agree that the world is full of strangeness and beauty
Fefonz Quan: me too
Stim Morane: It's a question of creating vs "seeing"
Wol Euler: but I too would hesitate about the word "art" because to me it implies intention.
Fefonz Quan nods
Stim Morane: Yes
Stim Morane: I admit I was stretching things. My motive was to see if any of you wanted to pull the issue back to PaB emphases.
Scathach Rhiadra: but can the creations help us to 'see', sometimes in a spontaneous way?
Stim Morane: That was my question too.
Fefonz Quan: i believe that sometimes they do
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Fefonz Quan: i wouldn't call it spontaneous, only because it communicates in different then regular linear way
Scathach Rhiadra: mnnn, it bypasses the usual analyitical way?
Wol Euler: hitting the emotions more directly, but also the ... calmness centres of the mind.
Wol Euler: staring at a Rothko is as good as meditation to me
Fefonz Quan: i think so, scath
Fefonz Quan: it's like experimenting instead of analysing
Fefonz Quan: we "experiment" a scene in a movie, and our respoinse can be immediate
Stim Morane: So how does that differ from the 9-sec practice's results?
Fefonz Quan: less regular i guess :)
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Stim Morane: Yes, I suppose so.
Wol Euler: heheheh
Scathach Rhiadra: you don't always have access to good art:)
Stim Morane: oh well
Wol Euler: true, and being a good meditator is possibly easier than being a good artist.
Fefonz Quan: exactly, Scath, i also tried to say that few art works succeed in that
Scathach Rhiadra: definitely:)
Fefonz Quan: infact, in this era of TV, i feel many of them try hard to make us more materialistic and unhappy
Fefonz Quan: (talking about tv shows)
Scathach Rhiadra admits I have not watched TV in months:)
Fefonz Quan: So does an artist need to "see" clearly in order to make art that
Fefonz Quan: will effect us in the right way?
Stim Morane: in some particular way, probably.
Stim Morane: "seeing" means many things.
Stim Morane: Even in the meditation context, where I use the word constantly, it means many distinct things.
Scathach Rhiadra: hmm, I've just remembered a little poem someone made from a Sutra, 'An artist once a picture painted, of such a monster that he fainted'..
Fefonz Quan: :)
Wol Euler is reminded of Pygmalion.
Stim Morane: or Dorian Gray
Wol Euler: mmhm
Fefonz Quan: so those examples do show that sometimes the artists intention and the results are totally different
Stim Morane: Yes.
Fefonz Quan: there are some who claim that great art comes when the artist "removes" itself in a way from the process,
Fefonz Quan: thus activates as a "pipe;ine" through which the
Stim Morane: Yes. The whole idea of "art" differs from culture to culture.
Fefonz Quan: divine inspiration goes
Fefonz Quan: (cosmic instead of divein is you wish)
Wol Euler: where does that leave "creativity", I wonder?
Stim Morane: Thanks very much for the discussion! I will have to go in a moment ... but perhaps we can revisit this topic at some point.
Wol Euler: is the best artist the one who is most able to turn himself off?
Wol Euler: yes, the hour is up. Let's revisit this another day
Fefonz Quan: Bye Stim!
Wol Euler: goodnight stim, take care
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Stim:)
Stim Morane: Bye everyone!
Fefonz Quan: i don't think so , Wol
Fefonz Quan: in fact it defines "inspiration" as this surrender
Wol Euler: mmmmmmm, inspiration is not exactly creativity.
Fefonz Quan: aren't they entangled?
Wol Euler: inspiration is why I pick up a pencil, creativity is what I do with it
Wol Euler: (as I think of the words)
Fefonz Quan: if you take the pencil and draw with it, i thought that without inspiration it won't go so well.
Fefonz Quan: (i believe poetry is a simpler example here)
Wol Euler: true, but without creativity it will also go badly, or dully
Fefonz Quan: as i understand it, creativity is the process and inspirasio is the "muse"
Scathach Rhiadra: I've always imagined that the poet 'recognises' when they have found the right words, an instinctual thing
Wol Euler: but it may take much time and effort, many false starts and wrong turns, to get to that point.
Fefonz Quan: right. i remember my dissapointment when visiting the London National gallery and finding that "yesterday" had some erased and changed words on the draft paper
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Wol Euler smiles
Wol Euler: actually that should please you! It proves that even genius needs hard work and sometimes gets it wrong.
Fefonz Quan: needing hard work seldom pleases me ;-)
Wol Euler: the song is not the result of some semi-miraculous "McCartney-ness"
Wol Euler: lol
Wol Euler: agreed, but seeing those corrections is to me a positive and inspiring (!) thing.
Fefonz Quan: yes, for me too
Wol Euler: it makes my own failures and mistakes seem less fatal
Fefonz Quan: or even more essential to the process
Wol Euler sighs and yawns. I must go, sorry, I'm really tired.
Wol Euler: Goodnight my dears, take care.
Fefonz Quan: Good night Wol :)
Scathach Rhiadra: ok, good night Wol:)
Fefonz Quan: did you get some answers to your questions?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it was a good discussion:0
Fefonz Quan: what does :o means?
Fefonz Quan: mean*
Scathach Rhiadra: just my bad typing, it is meant to be :)
Scathach Rhiadra: not holding down the shift key long enough
Fefonz Quan: :0
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: I had better go too, good night Fefonz, namasté
Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
Fefonz Quan: night scath
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