2009.01.08 07:00 - Biting is an Attachment

What a great conversation; seriously playful, playfully serious ... check it out.  - CH

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: hey there Gaya :)
Caledonia Heron: how are you today?
Gaya Ethaniel: Very well thank you. Yourself?
Caledonia Heron: good :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Adams :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Gaya and Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: hey Adams :)
Caledonia Heron: what's new? how are you?
Adams Rubble: me or Gaya?
Adams Rubble: or both?
Caledonia Heron: you dahling :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Gaya Ethaniel: :)

  

Adams Rubble: I had an earthshaking week in PaB during the break
Caledonia Heron: no kidding
Caledonia Heron: love to hear about it
Adams Rubble: Now everything is calmed down and I am trying to find my way back into the groove
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: Well I leaned a good bit about two of my identities
Adams Rubble: where they came from and how they have conflicted
Adams Rubble: that is very useful
Adams Rubble: I learned to appreciate both of them
Caledonia Heron: sounds like a good thing
Adams Rubble: yes, very good
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: but more importantly, I have been reacquainted with what happens when I am able to drop them totally
Caledonia Heron: ahhh, now that's interesting :)
Adams Rubble: It is then all the pain and burden is lifted and one can really listen
Adams Rubble: so now Pema has me practicing listening
Adams Rubble: and watching, of course
Adams Rubble: and appreciating
Adams Rubble: :)

  

Caledonia Heron: what do you hear?
Adams Rubble: That's a bit tougher to answer; I am seeing more than hearing right now
Adams Rubble: When I do hear, the voice is not coming from my brain
Caledonia Heron: mmm, listening to see, I like that it's like the sun's so hot I froze to death
Adams Rubble: which is probably why I am not listening as well as I might
Caledonia Heron: I wonder where it comes from
Adams Rubble hasn't heard that one in a while :)
Gaya Ethaniel: That the dark face?
Adams Rubble: yes, is it coming from God/Being or from some other part of me?

  

Adams Rubble: Hello Bill :)
Gaya Ethaniel shakes her head... I don't know
Caledonia Heron: maybe it's the same thing?
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Solo :)
Solobill Laville: Hi, everyone
Adams Rubble: from observations alone, one could deduce that
Caledonia Heron: hey there :) long time no virtualize :)
Solobill Laville: hehe, too true, sadly....
Solobill Laville: (don't want to interrupt)
Adams Rubble: Not sure of anything about the face in the dark Gaya
Caledonia Heron: Adams is sharing her recent activities and insights Solo :)
Adams Rubble: It is not what is speaking though, I think, not yet
Adams Rubble: It is just there to discover sometime
Adams Rubble tried to summarize
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok... I was just curious after reading your blog
Adams Rubble: yes :)
Adams Rubble: It is there to keep us all tuned in :)
Adams Rubble: hehe

  

Caledonia Heron: here's an interesting bit just before you arrived Solo: "When I do hear, the voice is not coming from my brain"
Solobill Laville: ooh, do go on...
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble afraid to say :)
Adams Rubble: It comes from lower down, seemingly from the stomach
Solobill Laville: very interesting...have you had any kind of awareness in that area before?
Adams Rubble: no, I don;t think so
Caledonia Heron: hmmm, interesting you say that - I would agree there is more energy there than is accounted for by food digestion :)
Adams Rubble: My other experience with my body intelligence is with the almost two months of sleeplessness after my experience with the great space
Solobill Laville nods
Adams Rubble should get a "novice" label :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Caledonia Heron: I think most of us are rowing in that boat :)
Solobill Laville: In Zazen, it is common to place one's mind in the hara, which is just below the navel
Solobill Laville: of course mind, doesn't mean brain in that context...
Adams Rubble: no. I can understand that much
Adams Rubble: It is amazing to think of all the things our body knows which we do not
Adams Rubble knows very little about chemistry
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble is grateful for the body knowledge

  

Solobill Laville: How does this feel when it comes from that area, Adams?
Caledonia Heron: maybe there is a membrane, thinner in some than others, where bits get through :)
Adams Rubble: I don't know Bill. I haven't thought about it
Adams Rubble: hehe Cal
Caledonia Heron: it feels true :)
Adams Rubble: I need to go back and look over my notes for the specifics
Adams Rubble: yes Cal, it does
Gaya Ethaniel: Does it feel in any way 'deep' I wonder
Adams Rubble: yes, I have had some deep experiences
Adams Rubble: One of them was the watching after I fully dropped my identities. there were things deeper than the identities
Adams Rubble: they weren't developed and slick like the identities
Adams Rubble: they were crude and raw
Adams Rubble: like little pieces
Gaya Ethaniel: oh I meant deep as in where the voice is coming from...
Adams Rubble: ah sorry
Gaya Ethaniel: Was vague sorry
Caledonia Heron: crude and raw like elements?
Adams Rubble: I seem to remember it pointed me somewhere
Adams Rubble: bits of memory that were left over from when the identities were formed
Adams Rubble: not part of the identities
Adams Rubble: from before the memories were formed
Adams Rubble: sorry
Adams Rubble: from before the identities were formed
Caledonia Heron: a primordial Adams? :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Adams Rubble: primordial in the sense of me, not the rest of the world :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Adams Rubble hasn't gotten back that far yet
Caledonia Heron: :)

  

Caledonia Heron: what is that feeling in the belly for you Solo?
Solobill Laville: less of a feeling and more of a placement of concentration, or focus
Caledonia Heron: conscious placement?
Solobill Laville: It helps to unify the mind-body, and not "get stuck in the brain"
Solobill Laville: yes, conscious placement
Caledonia Heron: so you "do" it on purpose or placement is a locality?
Caledonia Heron: ah, ok
Solobill Laville: oh, yes, very intentional
Caledonia Heron: you are a faster typist or a better predictor :)
Solobill Laville: It helps to center oneself
Solobill Laville: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Solobill Laville: Other schools talk of chakras, which I nothing next to nothing about
Solobill Laville: but it seems similar, perhaps

  

Adams Rubble: When I had my visions of God, both were during body scans when I was in the vicinity of my stomach
Caledonia Heron: sounds like a set of steps or procedure perhaps to center there at the middle
Solobill Laville: Adams, could you explain that more?
Caledonia Heron: yes, me too - I'm wondering what that means
Adams Rubble: The visions or the scans?
Solobill Laville: the scans, I recall the visions and the rocking :)
Caledonia Heron: yes, exactly
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: I had stopped for the nine seconds and done some breaths...
Adams Rubble: and I began to just let my mind focus around my body
Adams Rubble: much like what Bill just described
Adams Rubble: It was while I was scanning in the vicinity fo the stomach that both visions began
Solobill Laville: !
Caledonia Heron: goodness
Adams Rubble: I have never been able to duplicate anything like that
Gaya Ethaniel: Something about that area being 'centre of universe'... I read somewhere
Adams Rubble: Of course, it might also be a way for me to drop what is going on in my mind
Solobill Laville: The general idea of that spot is one of centeredness; a central fixed point of mind-body, stability
Adams Rubble: but I am willing to accept there is more
Solobill Laville: yes, and that too very much, Adams
Adams Rubble: hmmm
Gaya Ethaniel: Must have meant symbolic 'centre' as you said Solo
Solobill Laville: A Zen Abbot said, "just place your mind in your belly, and see the Buddha"...
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: /sees God :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Solobill Laville: of course...just wanted to use the actual quote ;)
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: wondering about Buddha's big belly and how much he can see from there :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Solobill Laville: hehe
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble: Maybe big bellies are a help
Solobill Laville: the holidays were good to me then....
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Caledonia Heron: lol, yes

  

Adams Rubble: Good time to reconnect
Caledonia Heron: when I was pregnant my husband brought home a tshirt that said belly love, good on many levels :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Solobill Laville smiles big
Adams Rubble: Wow, a whole new level :)
Caledonia Heron: belly, bella, beautiful
Solobill Laville: ci
Solobill Laville: I wonder if there is any (sure there is) on this mind placement subject is Christian contemplative writings?
Adams Rubble knows people to ask
Caledonia Heron: hmm, surely there is someone we can consult?
Caledonia Heron: ah, ok ... you guys are fast typists!! :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Solobill Laville: morning = coffee
Gaya Ethaniel: :) I could also ask my aunt of course if not
Solobill Laville: Your aunt?
Gaya Ethaniel: She's a catholic nun and into some non-main stream things... speaking in tongue thinigs like that
Solobill Laville: wowza :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :) yeah
Caledonia Heron: I think of those writings as do's and don'ts not what-if's .... I should read them from the belly :)
Solobill Laville: Indeed :)
Caledonia Heron: yikes!
Adams Rubble: :)
Solobill Laville would love to see tongues-talking catholic nun av in PaB...
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Solobill Laville: set her up, Gaya
Caledonia Heron: hide the rulers!!
Solobill Laville: smack!
Caledonia Heron: ouch
Gaya Ethaniel: I will ask but she's always off somewhere exotic, Africa, Papua New Guinea etc
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: No Internet in those places I think
Caledonia Heron: satellite :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)

  

Gaya Ethaniel: Don't you guys think some old religous texts talk in riddles?
Adams Rubble: Well they use imagery and examples which are unknown to many of us
Caledonia Heron: yes, archaic references, hand copying through the generations, the obtuseness of the subject ... lots of contributors to riddle-ness :)
Adams Rubble: some of the lessons they are teaching may not speak to us too
Adams Rubble: but others are right on
Gaya Ethaniel: So can mean different things to different people
Solobill Laville: Well, there some that are perhaps more "ethical-based" which I personally tent to get too involved with
Caledonia Heron: examples?
Adams Rubble has been pondering an ethical example
Solobill Laville: A great many of the oldest Buddhist Sutras, the 10 Commandments, off the top of my mind
Adams Rubble: When the Buddha decided that life was suffering, he left his wife and family to go off to the desert
Adams Rubble: what about his responsibilities to his wife?
Adams Rubble: and family?
Caledonia Heron: suffering or unsatisfactory?
Solobill Laville: He lived in a castle, she was OK ;)
Caledonia Heron: good questions
Caledonia Heron: yeah, maybe he thought it was handled
Solobill Laville: Seriously, the historical Siddhartha was wealthy prince
Adams Rubble: yes I know but it seems rather cruel on one level
Gaya Ethaniel: mmhmm and that was at the beginning of his 'journey'...
Caledonia Heron: maybe it would be cruel to stay
Adams Rubble: Of course it is a story but the story has a point
Gaya Ethaniel: He thought it best perhaps at the time
Solobill Laville: well, things happen, cruel is a bit subjective, perhaps also in terms of the time period, I don't know...
Adams Rubble: but it is an ethical question
Adams Rubble: our ethics vs. someone elses
Solobill Laville: yes

  

Gaya Ethaniel: Thing is even within one text, I find contradictions between ethics vs how things are
Adams Rubble: Of course Buddhism is very radical and this is a radical decision on his part
Caledonia Heron: getting a picture of "ultimate ethics" and "personal ethics" ...
Solobill Laville: hehe - radical is also a bit subjective :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Adams Rubble: yes, very much so
Adams Rubble: What I meant that in Buddhism, almost everything is an attachment, even God it would seem
Adams Rubble: and wives?
Caledonia Heron: a good band name .. The Subjectives who typically open for The Hyperboles
Adams Rubble: :)
Solobill Laville: Slightly different, things are, we can or cannot be attached to them, with whatever consequences that may mean
Solobill Laville: i love their live album...
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Adams Rubble: please say more Bill
Caledonia Heron: attachments aren't good or bad, they're just attachments
Gaya Ethaniel: wow non-attachment to attachment :)
Solobill Laville: inherently that is true, Cal
Caledonia Heron: yes, cherry pick them knowing what they are
Solobill Laville: and, according to Buddhist thought, our attachments to things are
Caledonia Heron: I like some of my attachments, some are a pain in the ass
Solobill Laville: a great part of our suffering
Gaya Ethaniel: That kind of kick starts a infinite line of non-attachment to non-attachment to... :)
Solobill Laville: yes, the rub can be that the liking is even considered an attachment
Adams Rubble very much feels Cal's sentiment
Solobill Laville: ...which really bites...
Adams Rubble: yes
Caledonia Heron: biting is an attachment :)
Solobill Laville: lol
Solobill Laville: Now there's a T-shirt....
Caledonia Heron: here goes that infinite thing :)
Adams Rubble: :)

  

Gaya Ethaniel: One of the most difficult part for me has been realising non-attachment doesn't mean feeling nothing
Caledonia Heron: yes, isn't that a funny picture ...
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Solobill Laville: Yes, Gaya, go on..
Gaya Ethaniel: An ability to feel and appreciate is there
Adams Rubble: yes please Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Just when feeling good or bad, it's important not to cling on for me
Solobill Laville nods
Gaya Ethaniel: But fully appreciate whatever comes

  

Caledonia Heron: hi Marcus :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy too
Marcus Herbit: hi
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Marcus
Adams Rubble: yes
Solobill Laville: That is a very good realization Gaya :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Marcus
Caledonia Heron: we are having a play as being discussion - I will im you with details
Marcus Herbit: i'm italian
Gaya Ethaniel nods... last time I got myself feeling flat, nothing matters mode
Marcus Herbit: there'is someone that is italian???
Gaya Ethaniel: But without that experience, I wouldn't have realised this so it's all good
Solobill Laville: No, but my favorite city in the world is Firenze!!
Adams Rubble is beginning to learn that the flat times are important
Caledonia Heron: as I mentioned in im - we are recording this session - may we include your comments Marcus?
Gaya Ethaniel likes Italian food
Adams Rubble: yum
Gaya Ethaniel: Please say more Adams?
Marcus Herbit: what are you doing???
Adams Rubble: It is a time of slow realization
Solobill Laville: IM is new as well, Cal... :)
Adams Rubble: Also one cannot fully appreciate the mountains without the plains

  

Marcus Herbit: i'm new of second life
Caledonia Heron: ah, Marcus is 1 day old :)
Caledonia Heron: yes :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: Welcome to Second Life marcus
Marcus Herbit: thx
Caledonia Heron: we are having a discussion group Marcus - called play as being
Caledonia Heron: you can read about it at
http://playasbeing.wik.is
Solobill Laville (quietly excuses himself)
Marcus Herbit: yes
Adams Rubble: bye Bill
Caledonia Heron: bye Bill :)
Marcus Herbit: bye
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Solo :)
Gaya's translator: Only Bye:)
Adams Rubble loves Gaya's translator
Caledonia Heron: I must go also - bye everyone :) great discussion :)
Gaya Ethaniel: We are finishing up here sorry
Gaya's translator: Siamo spiacenti di finitura qui
Adams Rubble: Yes me too. Bye everyone. Great discussion :)
Gaya Ethaniel: But we have session 4 times a day
Gaya's translator: Ma ci sono tornata 4 volte al giorno
Caledonia Heron: come again Marcus ... on the 1 and 7 slt for the discusssion group :)
Marcus Herbit: ok don't worry
Gaya Ethaniel: 1 am, 7 am, 1 pm and 7 pm
Gaya's translator: 1 del mattino, 7 am, 1 pm e 7 pm
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Marcus
Gaya's translator: Ciao Marco
Marcus Herbit: bye
Adams Rubble: Bye Marcus
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Cal and Adams :)