2009.01.26 19:00 - Embodiment and Space

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    Threedee Shepherd was GoC. The main discussion dealt with how physical space is experienced.


    doug Sosa: i am very short on time but though still good to drop by.

    doug Sosa: why do i feel like a mouse :) {Doug sits between the lion avatars Threedee and Adelene.]

    Adelene Dawner: hehe.

    Threedee Shepherd: Well, perhaps we can find a "quick" topic ^.^ and, hello

    doug Sosa: hi three.

    Adelene Dawner hmms and poofs back to her scripting.

    Threedee Shepherd: Perhaps a bit more about space

    doug Sosa: poofs?

    doug Sosa: ah, as in "gone".

    Threedee Shepherd: poofs as in disappears in a cloud of TelePort dust, is what I think she meant.

    Threedee Shepherd: She was not intending to come tonight and was just holding the fort until I could get here

    doug Sosa: well, what'd ya like?

    doug Sosa: does anyone meet at the old pavaillion?

    Threedee Shepherd: not that I know of. Cognition?

    doug Sosa: so, cognition..

    Threedee Shepherd: My take is that all cognition is embodied, not just a brain exercise. Given that, environment is an integral part of embodiment, and thus space has effects.

    doug Sosa: have you a 3D space to play with?

    Threedee Shepherd: Sort of. I have a 3D desktop display here in my study and also use SL. I will soon have my own OpenSim. I also have access to a large 3D immersive environment.

    doug Sosa: hi claire..

    Claire Beltran: Hello...

    doug Sosa: and hi pila

    Threedee Shepherd: Claire, we are exploring how physical space such as size and content, affects thinking and cognition.

    Pila Mulligan: greetings

    Threedee Shepherd: greetings, you probably just got: "we are exploring how physical space such as size and content, affects thinking and cognition."

    Pila Mulligan: yep

    Pila Mulligan: Herman Kahn :)

    Claire Beltran: Hello, Pila...

    Pila Mulligan: hi Claire

    doug Sosa: at stanford we are exploring retro environments, lots of graphics on paper, low lighting, creatig conferene rooms like stage sets.

    Pila Mulligan: wasn't Herman Kahn the architect into that also, Threedee

    doug Sosa: Peligrino in real glasses

    Pila Mulligan: in the 60's

    Threedee Shepherd: I'm not familiar with Kahn specifics.

    Pila Mulligan: I knew one of his followers and he was seriously concerned with how lighting, for exmaple, affects perception

    Pila Mulligan: same with space creation, in terms of layout and decor

    Threedee Shepherd: My current point of view is that the growing understanding of embodiment as integral to cognition makes all environmental factors worth considering.

    Pila Mulligan: quantum architecture :)

    Threedee Shepherd: Not really. We don't kjust exist, our whole brain/body interacts in a spacee (and time, but that's another matter.)

    Pila Mulligan: well, I was thinking in thoise terms, aren't quantum physicists discvering interactions of that type?

    Pila Mulligan: the observor and the observed can affect each other

    Threedee Shepherd: Not really on any scale that matters to humans, as far as I know.

    Pila Mulligan: I see

    Pila Mulligan: so too soon for extrapolation :0

    Threedee Shepherd: Oh sure that is true--heisenberg uncertainty principle. But on a macro, not atomic, scale it is more of an analogy than a physical law

    Pila Mulligan: the anaolgy was what caught my mind

    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm

    Pila Mulligan: what is the context of your efforts -- strictly acadmeis and laboratory or is there a real world side also

    Pila Mulligan: not that academics are less than real :)

    Threedee Shepherd: I think doug is doing real design, right?

    doug Sosa: yes, and experients, for example, stressing to those who meet the drama of the strategic conversation.

    Pila Mulligan: ok, there's a sentence that needs elaboration :)

    doug Sosa: that is, no, don't work together, but yes do design..

    Threedee Shepherd: Ahh, group dynamics as "performance drama". I bet there are books about that.

    Pila Mulligan: cool

    Pila Mulligan: that's pretty 'real world'

    doug Sosa: note i didn't use "group dynamics". It is the dynamics of the people around a serious question.

    Pila Mulligan: approaching it without the baggage of former grops and their dynamics :)

    doug Sosa: The question, the environment (in this case conference room) and people blend..

    Pila Mulligan: yep

    doug Sosa: The background question is, what are the best possible rooms for adults to have serious conversations?

    Pila Mulligan: why limit it to rooms?

    doug Sosa: for example?

    Pila Mulligan: well, beaches, mountains, parks, etc.

    Pila Mulligan: what is the best environment for serious dicsussion

    Threedee Shepherd: What are the best types of spaces for adults to have serious conversations? A profound question. Any reading about it you have done? and I want to look at a book on my shelf beside me.

    doug Sosa: ah, well, there are many attempts at strategic conversations in universities, government agencies, business, but they are very weak. Mountain tops and beaches are not likely. even going outside onthe grass disperses energy.

    doug Sosa: you might take a look at http://humanitieslab.stanford.edu/SSC/Home

    Pila Mulligan: but I've atennded some dynamite strategy sessions in pavilions like this, but in hawai`i

    Pila Mulligan: hi Corvi

    Pila Mulligan: like this SL one that is

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Pila

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi all.

    doug Sosa: Theodore Zeldin wrote a good book about important conversations, but nothing about space. but he does make it human centered. the idea that the sapce/tech can do it is also weak, it is the hosting, the lighting, the furniture, the richness of surrounding art and artifacts..

    Pila Mulligan: man, you are one black crow

    Pila Mulligan: not a speck of color there, Corvi :)

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.

    Pila Mulligan: doug, for some groups I think outdoors works pretty well,for some it obviously would nt be an option

    Pila Mulligan: but I agree with the hosting, the lighting, the furniture, the richness of surroundings

    Pila Mulligan: it is plainly also a factor in keeping a meeting together

    Threedee Shepherd: hi Corvi

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya.

    Douglas Rishmal is Online

    Pila Mulligan: what did the book say Threedee?

    Pila Mulligan: for Corvi: [19:34] Threedee Shepherd: What are the best types of spaces for adults to have serious conversations? A profound question. Any reading about it you have done? and I want to look at a book on my shelf beside me.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: thanks, Pila.

    Threedee Shepherd: I am looking at the well-known book "A Pattern Language" by C. Alexander, et al.

    Pila Mulligan: does he address the question of spaces being conducive to serious conversations?

    doug Sosa: try his new series in the nature of order

    Threedee Shepherd: He stresses that the largest small group is 12 or less, seated in a rough circle with a choice of chairs, even lighting from at least two sides with no glare, in an enclosure that is not cramped, etc.

    Pila Mulligan: glare was a big concern of Kahn's freind also

    Threedee Shepherd: Then it refers to the section on the shape of indoor space, which is quire detailed.

    Threedee Shepherd: He prefers roughly rectangular

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: is there a difference, I wonder in optimal spaces depending on the structure of the meeting, or the intent?

    Pila Mulligan: probably Corvi

    Pila Mulligan: what comes to mind is the Iriquois Longhouse, one of the few rectangular meeting spaces among Native Americans

    Pila Mulligan: usually native people meet in circles

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.

    Pila Mulligan: by the Six Nations have a three tiered rectangle

    Pila Mulligan: roughly equivalent to the three rbnaches of government

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is different about those meetings?

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.

    Pila Mulligan: the strutcure

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: does it change, I wonder, the function then.

    Pila Mulligan: the Iriqious are a long successful confederacy

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes.

    Pila Mulligan: yes, because there are several different interest grooups negoitiating

    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks..if they were scattered..it would be a different meeting than if they are grouped.

    Pila Mulligan: the translators sit in the first level, and act as judges in deciding together what has been said before it is translated

    Pila Mulligan: the legislators or active representatives sit at the thrid level and discuss the items on the agenda

    Pila Mulligan: second level that is

    Pila Mulligan: the clan mothers, the bosses, sit at the top and decide on the fate of their representatives, replacing them if they are dissatisfied

    Pila Mulligan: so eveyne ha a ifnger in the pie :)

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.

    Pila Mulligan: it is a system or scheme given to them by a prohet known as The Peacemaker at the time of the rela life Hiawatha -- some 900 years ago

    Pila Mulligan: and it is a rarity in how successful it has been

    Threedee Shepherd: Thinking of room size; some examples: the emotional effect of the high ceiling of a large church; a "romantic" corner; an auditorium versus a conference room.

    Pila Mulligan: especially maong native Americans

    Pila Mulligan: yep, Threedee

    Pila Mulligan: and the accompanying implied physical orientation of the group in each -- pews in a chuch, chairs ina corner, seat rows in an auditorium, etc

    Threedee Shepherd: exactly. and in serious conversations of the kind Doug mentioned, limiting distractions.

    Pila Mulligan: the bane of any meeting -- distractions, and side rails (so to speak -- going off on tangents)

    Pila Mulligan: kind of brings us around to Fritz Perls then :)

    Pila Mulligan: evoking content

    Threedee Shepherd: content is always evoked, to some degree. Doug is interested in "using" that.

    Pila Mulligan: group dynamics as "performance drama" as you mentioned earlier Threedee

    Threedee Shepherd: I start with group size as critical. More that 8-12 does not allow a person to participate often enough, or have the possibility to do so, to keep engaged.

    Pila Mulligan: yes

    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods

    Pila Mulligan: well, it is about 6 pm here and my minds eye is eeing a Thai curry

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: G'night, Pila

    Pila Mulligan: thnaks for the nice meeting :)

    Threedee Shepherd: OK, enjoy it

    Pila Mulligan: aloha

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