The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.

Uns Mistwalker: hello, .... marjorie? (you prefr that to Maude?)
DR42 Resident: Maude would be fine, please
DR42 Resident: How are you doing?
Uns Mistwalker: I'm doing well, been searching a bit for non-western clothing for men.
DR42 Resident: Marketplace not have much?
Uns Mistwalker: haven't seen too much.... but I'm a bit lazy about it. If I can't find something pretty quick, I give up. Feels too much like RL to be searchin.
Uns Mistwalker: But someone showed me this place with some Kimonos for men, and I thought they were lovely.
DR42 Resident: Make your own?
DR42 Resident: Try Yak and Yeti, they have an assortment of Tibetian clothes.
DR42 Resident: And, they are all free
Uns Mistwalker: ooo ty..... I will do!

Uns Mistwalker: thanks so much.
Uns Mistwalker: Do you shop much?
DR42 Resident: No, I explore somewhat randomly and pick up what I find that is free.
Uns Mistwalker nods. Makes sense.
Uns Mistwalker: I ran into one avatar, looked at her profile, which read: "don't talk to me. I'm only here to play with my Barbie."
DR42 Resident: I would instantly talk to them.
Uns Mistwalker: hahaha. would you?
Uns Mistwalker: I didn't.
DR42 Resident: Yes.
Uns Mistwalker: Do you think it may have been a kind of... 'enticement' ?
Uns Mistwalker: It certainly did sort people rapidly into two groups.
DR42 Resident: no, but I would do that to see the reaction.
Uns Mistwalker: Sure, I can understand that.
Uns Mistwalker sighs. Is Zen always late?
DR42 Resident: No, something in RL may be keeping him away, I was at a meeting with him yesterday evening.
Uns Mistwalker: do you recal what our topic is....Something about Motivation, I think?

DR42 Resident: Motivation, for example, why PaB.
Uns Mistwalker: Hi Zen.
DR42 Resident: Speak of the devil....
Zen Arado: Hi Un,s Marjorie
Uns Mistwalker: a charming Irish devil.
Zen Arado: had trouble TP'ing again
Zen Arado: seem to have to go soemwhere else first before coming here
Zen Arado: devil maybe..charming ..not so sure :)
Uns Mistwalker: yes, the classic response of the truly rural when asked about another town...."Well, ya know, you can't get there from here."
DR42 Resident: Maybe LM just in the adjacent region, then hop in. :)
Zen Arado: Southern Irish are more charming
Zen Arado: well I tried Kira and got logged off
DR42 Resident: I was thinking that the region next to us is a welcome center, and maybe that would not be an issue there.
Zen Arado: I go to a London place and they are always dancing
Zen Arado: thaT's where the Jelly Bean label comes from

PAB motivation:

Zen Arado: so..what motivated you to come here?
Zen Arado: what
Zen Arado: drat
Uns Mistwalker: I came originally for consequential discussion.
Zen Arado: I have been a guardian nearly 4 years
Zen Arado: maybe I should move on
Zen Arado: consequential?
DR42 Resident: A desire for expansion of my "event horizon."
Zen Arado: a worthy desire
DR42 Resident: The discussion that is so rare in SL.
Uns Mistwalker: Some discussions that take place seem to be more about having one's own point of view heard, and scoring points in critiquing others. This place has never had that bive for me.
Zen Arado: whatever 'event horizon ' is :)
Uns Mistwalker: that vibe.
Zen Arado: that's good Uns
Zen Arado: me..I spent too long doing philososophy
Zen Arado: winninng arguments not important to me

Zen Arado: more interested in learning from people
Zen Arado: and sharing my viewpoint
DR42 Resident: Asking questions that provoke thought is high on the list.
Zen Arado: sure
Zen Arado: I'm not so sure there are any answers any more
Zen Arado: I found philosophy just asks more and more questions
Uns Mistwalker nods. But asking helps us to uncover what is driving the question sometimes.
Zen Arado: latelyI have become interested in a non dual perspective
Zen Arado: whch is a non perspective really
DR42 Resident: When people explain or answer, it often exposes me to new viewpoints, hence the expanding event horizon.
Zen Arado: one thing I came across was that saying of Schopenhaeur
Zen Arado: 'you can choose what to do but you can't choose what you want to do' (paraphrasing)
Zen Arado: Einstein came across that teaching and became enlightened apparently
Zen Arado: makes you realize how little choice we actually have
DR42 Resident: Would the Buddha agree?
Zen Arado: yeh probably I think
Zen Arado: though I don't know where the teaching is
Zen Arado: Jesus said 'the wind blows where it wills'
Zen Arado: but perhaps that is fitting teachings to what you believe
Zen Arado: retrospectively
Zen Arado: so what motivates us is a bewildering range of factors
Zen Arado: I think
Uns Mistwalker: I think so too...and we have different lenses for viewing the question of motivation as well, psychological, sociological, etc.
Zen Arado: yes.. different frameworks
DR42 Resident: In some form, how and where we were raised, under what conditions has a huge impact. But not as large as out current environment, I think.
Zen Arado: whch can be helpful
Zen Arado: yes Marge..our interest, abilities, education ,disabilities, form our desires
Zen Arado: I think my disability has had a large influence on my choices all through my life
Zen Arado: perhaps I wouldn't be here if I was able bodied
Zen Arado: our culture, upbringing, opportunities,
Zen Arado: our friend's influence
DR42 Resident: And I would not be here if I had a job, living in an isolated area.
Zen Arado: our spouses
Zen Arado: yes work experiences
Zen Arado: I moved to where I am because of disability
Zen Arado: to a place near shops and facilities
Zen Arado: because I can no longer drive
Zen Arado: sorry talking too much
DR42 Resident: No, not at all.

Searching outside:

Zen Arado: perhaps a main motivator is a search for something outside ourselves
Zen Arado: something that will make us complete
DR42 Resident: But, more complete in what dimension?
Zen Arado: and we think various things will do that for us
Zen Arado: just a feeling there is something missing|?
Zen Arado: ever felt that?
Uns Mistwalker: I've heard it referred to as the "God-shaped hole"
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: by people who clain that a religion is what fills that hole
Zen Arado: claim
Zen Arado: I tried that path too
Zen Arado: after I tried the usual materialism
DR42 Resident: A deity based religion?
Zen Arado: some think they just need the right relationship
Zen Arado: I was a Christian for about 20 years
Zen Arado: then grew disilusioned
Zen Arado: tried philospphy
DR42 Resident: Same as me.
Zen Arado: same
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: always lived in the future
Zen Arado: 'when I get this or that I will be happy'
Uns Mistwalker: I was disillusioned with Christianity by age 18, started University as a Philosphy major, but realized quickly that most in the dept were interested in one-upping another.
Zen Arado: interesting Uns
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: philosophy can be a kind of mental masturbation too I think
Uns Mistwalker: So.... switched to social sciences with comparative religion minor.
Zen Arado: or clever people good at arguing putting each other down as you say
DR42 Resident: I did my minor studies in philosophy, specifically, the philosophy of christian religions.
Uns Mistwalker: yes, Zen. One friend of mine characterized philosophers as two-year olds saying "Look Ma, I'm dancing"
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: though it is good for clear thinking
Uns Mistwalker: I studied Christianity in University a bit....as well as Buddhism.
Zen Arado: for seing through flawed arguments
Uns Mistwalker: yes... agreed.
Uns Mistwalker: The old Aristotelian view of education was not so bad.
Zen Arado: I never liked the logical analytic side of it
Zen Arado: liked creative ideas though
Zen Arado: what was that Uns?
Zen Arado: Hi Sunji :)
Uns Mistwalker: I don't remember exactly....but I know that two of the basic studies were logic and rhetoric.
Uns Mistwalker: hi Sunji.

DR42 Resident: Hello
Zen Arado: we are having a big sserious discussion :)
szavanna Resident: hi Marjorie, Unsji :)
szavanna Resident: oh really ;o)
szavanna Resident: listens
Zen Arado: listens too :)
Uns Mistwalker: are not the crickets lovely!
szavanna Resident: oh anyone talks at all ...or we are all listening :)
Zen Arado: I did political philsophy for dissertation
DR42 Resident: What shapes out motivation? Is that a good summare of the last 10 or 15 minutes?
DR42 Resident: our*\
Zen Arado: at least that is trying to work ut how best to live with others
Zen Arado: out
Zen Arado: hopefully Maude
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Zen Arado: and 'I' don't see anyhting apart from all the influences around me
Zen Arado: not free will or determinism
Zen Arado: just philosophers' ideas
Zen Arado: that needs a separate being being dtermined
Zen Arado: or not
Zen Arado: choices are made in a vast confluence of inter mingling interracting influences
Zen Arado: I think
DR42 Resident: I find I am often motivated by what I lack but often find I don't know enough to know what I don't know.
Zen Arado: a choice is made yes
Uns Mistwalker: Yes, Maude.
Zen Arado: yes
szavanna Resident: :)
Zen Arado: how on earth would we know why we act in a certain way?

Triggers:

Zen Arado: ever hear of the 'pain body'?
Uns Mistwalker: Mis-identification of needs is a not always easy to fix.
Uns Mistwalker: Is that a E. Tolle concept?
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: where you make a seemingly innocuous remark to your partner and they fly into a rage
Zen Arado: because it triggers something from their past
Uns Mistwalker: ah... I think the more general psych term is just.... "tirggering"
Zen Arado: and perhaps they aren't even conscious of the trigger
Zen Arado: yeh
DR42 Resident: Happens all the time for me...
Zen Arado: his solution?
Zen Arado: just becoming aware of the feelings
Zen Arado: noticing, and perhaps allowing them and underlying trigger to surface
Zen Arado: but a good example of how we do things that have been influenced by former experience
Uns Mistwalker: yes... the problem often is that when we are triggered, we are reactive.... and when we react to the trigger, we often trigger another....and then it all goes rapidly down hill.
Zen Arado: you work with this all the time I guess Uns
Uns Mistwalker: yeah.
Zen Arado: psychoanalysis is a process for uncovering such things?
Zen Arado: or even just talking
Zen Arado: ?
Uns Mistwalker: hmmm... psychoanalysis is a particular approach....there are lots of different therapeutic approaches...
Zen Arado: yes
szavanna Resident: yes very interesting to try them
Uns Mistwalker: I am partial to one called "Imago" therapy.... which is designed for couples.
Zen Arado: how does that work?
Uns Mistwalker: well, the general notion is that a marriage is the very best place to grow.... because you are with each other so much, and triggering each other all the time.
szavanna Resident: brb
Zen Arado: hey yes
Zen Arado: Joko Beck , a Zen teacher said that
Zen Arado: a real 'Hothouse' for growth
Uns Mistwalker: The concept is that we carry an image.... an "Imago" that is kind of a composite of our care givers.... parents or whoever...
Zen Arado: hmm yes
Uns Mistwalker: and that through viewing conflict as an opportunity for growth.... and by using a formal communication technique.... we can uncover the sore spots.... and heal them.
Zen Arado: and it may be incorrect?
Zen Arado: problem is people try to avoid sore spots
Zen Arado: and they fester
Zen Arado: ?
Uns Mistwalker: The imago is a set of experiences that has wired us to perceive reality in a certain way.... and a lot of the trouble is that some of the way we see is no longer useful.
Uns Mistwalker: yes.... in intimate relationships....
Uns Mistwalker: people value the relationship highly....
Uns Mistwalker: and if something seems to cause trouble
Zen Arado: a Zen teacher taught us to 'not know' each other
Uns Mistwalker: they will tend to avoid it...
Zen Arado: yes
Uns Mistwalker: over time, this leads to fewer and fewer areas the couple CAN interact about... and kills the marriage.
Zen Arado: a lot is opening and accepting
Uns Mistwalker: yes.
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: often the man won't open I suspect
Uns Mistwalker: So the key is to learn how to deal with each other when one or the other or both are triggered.
Zen Arado: men want to sit in their 'cae'
Zen Arado: cave
Zen Arado: and listening required
Uns Mistwalker: yes.... a great book on Male depression is called.
Uns Mistwalker: "I don't want to talk about it."
Zen Arado: :)
DR42 Resident: RL calls, later.
Uns Mistwalker: goodbye Maude.
Zen Arado: I find talking about personla things uncomfortable
Uns Mistwalker: yes.
Zen Arado: byee Maude
Zen Arado: ty for coming
szavanna Resident: back :)
Uns Mistwalker: wb
szavanna Resident: ty
Zen Arado: it's like women talk endlessly about their 'relationships' and men don't want to knwo
szavanna Resident: hehe
Zen Arado: wb Sunji ;)
szavanna Resident: ty :)
Uns Mistwalker: this is gender socialization in part...
Uns Mistwalker: but also there are physical differences in women's brains.
szavanna Resident: hmm really
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Uns Mistwalker: for example...

Uns Mistwalker: the corpus callosum
Zen Arado: yes your brain is different Sunji :)
szavanna Resident: sigh °͜°
Uns Mistwalker: which passes the signals between the two hemispheres of the brain... is generally much more highly developed in women than in men.
szavanna Resident: yay
szavanna Resident: thank god hehe
Uns Mistwalker: hehe
Zen Arado: frowns
Zen Arado: :)
szavanna Resident: we are better than youuuuu
szavanna Resident: sticks out tongue
Uns Mistwalker: so they are better and negotiating, actually... and better at switching hemispehres.
szavanna Resident: like me ...moving to the southern one
szavanna Resident: ;p
Zen Arado: hmm makes sense
Uns Mistwalker: But men's brain are more highly developed in the places that track objects moving through space.
Uns Mistwalker: hehe...yes! sunji!
Zen Arado: yeh
Zen Arado: lke women trying to park cars
Zen Arado: :)
szavanna Resident: hehe
Uns Mistwalker: yes.

Music Stuff :)

Zen Arado: anyway
Zen Arado: I am doing a mashup atm
Zen Arado: great fun
szavanna Resident: oh tell me
Zen Arado: mixing two songs together
szavanna Resident: ;))
Zen Arado: David Guetta songs
szavanna Resident: youtube?
Zen Arado: got software makes it easy
szavanna Resident: :)
Zen Arado: no I bought an album
szavanna Resident: kk
szavanna Resident: I mean - give me link
szavanna Resident: :) to listen
Zen Arado: will play Firday if I am happy with it
Zen Arado: still needs more work
szavanna Resident: yay
Zen Arado: but happy so far
Zen Arado: learning the software
szavanna Resident: oh I must really catch up
Zen Arado: thisd is a god way into producing own music
Zen Arado: using others to start with
szavanna Resident: yes of course
Zen Arado: just modifying a bit
szavanna Resident: step by step
Uns Mistwalker: sounds great Zen.... I have often thought it....
Zen Arado: could make a track on mixcraft and bits of that
Zen Arado: add bits
Uns Mistwalker: does the software help you match beats and keys and so forth?
Zen Arado: yes exactly
szavanna Resident: yes that is tricky
Zen Arado: well I get the key from VDJ
szavanna Resident: to match those
Zen Arado: then match BPM
Zen Arado: and phase
Zen Arado: same people do software for that too
Zen Arado: 'Mixed in key' it's called
Zen Arado: but VDJ does it already
Uns Mistwalker: VDJ?
Zen Arado: yuou can reduce the volume of differfent arts of tracks
Zen Arado: Virtual DJ
Zen Arado: the DJ software I use
Uns Mistwalker sighs.... so many possibilities! so much to learn!
Zen Arado: I could do it using VDJ too
Zen Arado: but have to do it live than
Zen Arado: yep
Zen Arado: also can reduce certain frequencies
Zen Arado: resduce top frequencies takes our hi hats drums
Uns Mistwalker: wow, that's great control.
Zen Arado: mid range takes out vocals
Zen Arado: low takes out bass and drums
Zen Arado: simple control
Zen Arado: then you save to a wav file when finished
Zen Arado: or MP£
Zen Arado: but wav better
Zen Arado: mp3
szavanna Resident: sorry back :)
Zen Arado: heh you missed my tutorial on mashup
szavanna Resident: looking
Zen Arado: :)
szavanna Resident: so you can separate the different tracks?
Uns Mistwalker: so do you keep your tracks as wav files?
szavanna Resident: and save as wav
szavanna Resident: yes its always best
szavanna Resident: no?
Zen Arado: no you save in their proprietary file ext until finished
Zen Arado: then mix down to wav
szavanna Resident: ah
szavanna Resident: yes
Zen Arado: sam as in a DAW
szavanna Resident: whatever is the extension for the software
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: but it doesn't split songs down to their individual ttracks
Zen Arado: you just work with two or ore songs
Zen Arado: could use a lot of tracks
Zen Arado: just need a few more hours in the day :)
Uns Mistwalker: hahaha....
szavanna Resident: hehe Zenji
Uns Mistwalker loves listening to discussions that are over his head.
--BELL--
Zen Arado: me too
Zen Arado: :)
szavanna Resident: yes that is why I come to PaB
Zen Arado: it reminds me of running up a boiler and turboalternator whe I worked in a power station
szavanna Resident: just sitting quietly and letting all the clever words enter my brain ;D
Zen Arado: matcxhing temperatures and speeds
Zen Arado: pressures
Uns Mistwalker: ((sunji))
Zen Arado: synching a generator to the grid..
szavanna Resident: ((Unsji ))
Uns Mistwalker: yeah, Zen, but if you did that wrong..... ka-boom!!
Zen Arado: yep
szavanna Resident: that reminds me when I worked in a beer factory
Uns Mistwalker: yes?
szavanna Resident: hmm we made african beer
Zen Arado: naturally:)
szavanna Resident: lol
Zen Arado: not Guinness?
szavanna Resident: I was not working there really - but was around all the time
Uns Mistwalker: sampling?
szavanna Resident: not it looked like yoghurt
Zen Arado: a mash they call it too i think
Zen Arado: at the beginning
Uns Mistwalker: yes.
szavanna Resident: and saw how the process was managed
Uns Mistwalker: hops and yeast and grain and so forth.
Uns Mistwalker: i can see how fermentation might generate a lot of pressure.
szavanna Resident: yes I was in constant danger
szavanna Resident: one never knew what would explode and when
Zen Arado: I worked on batch process like that in Australia
Zen Arado: making fibreglass resins
szavanna Resident: since everyone that worked there were drunk all the time
Zen Arado: ah
Uns Mistwalker: yikes!
Uns Mistwalker: really?
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: perks of the job
szavanna Resident: hehe yes they drank all the old beer
szavanna Resident: that they couldn't sell anymore
Zen Arado: they drang ethyl alcohol in chemical plants I worked in
szavanna Resident: fibreglass resin hmm
Uns Mistwalker: ooo and some nasty solvents involved in that.... acetone and such.
Zen Arado: phythallic anhydride I remember
szavanna Resident: uh sounds chinese
Zen Arado: powder got into gloves and boots
Uns Mistwalker: polite language, please.... this is a moderate sim.
Zen Arado: (think I spelt it wrong anyway)
Uns Mistwalker: yeah... fibreglass power is bad!
Zen Arado: phthallic
szavanna Resident: I wouldn't know °͜°
Zen Arado: breathing fumes a lot
Zen Arado: I worked in a formaldehyde plant too
Zen Arado: horrible stuff
Uns Mistwalker: i worked in a plant that manufactured stuff from fibreglass, and used to have to sand off the burrs at the point where the mold-halves met.
szavanna Resident: hmm
Zen Arado: would be dead by now if I had stayed at that
Uns Mistwalker: yes... that is very bad indeed.
szavanna Resident: uh
Uns Mistwalker: I'm surprised you mind is intact!
Zen Arado: boring jobs Uns
szavanna Resident: factories should be banned
szavanna Resident: back to nature
Zen Arado: well we wouldn't have computers then
szavanna Resident: nature & computers
Uns Mistwalker: hahaha
Zen Arado: and lots of other useful things
Uns Mistwalker: great answer!
szavanna Resident: ;o)
szavanna Resident: hmm must go
Zen Arado: yeh me too
szavanna Resident: I must start making music
Zen Arado: he get mashing
szavanna Resident: happy mashing
Uns Mistwalker: thank you for the conversation.
Zen Arado: ty for coming
szavanna Resident: hugs guys :)
Zen Arado: hugs
Zen Arado: byee
szavanna Resident: see you soon :))
Uns Mistwalker: bye