2013.08.22 07:00 - No Real Substitute

eliza posted this session...

[07:11] Storm Nordwind: Hi Yaku!
[07:11] Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning storm
[07:12] Storm Nordwind: A pleasure to see you in your "smart" form :)
[07:12] Yakuzza Lethecus: not smart
[07:12] Yakuzza Lethecus: formal
[07:12] Yakuzza Lethecus: i was in a narrow space the other day and snoopy was a bit large
[07:12] Storm Nordwind smiles

[07:14] Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you ?
[07:14] Storm Nordwind: Hmm...
[07:14] Storm Nordwind: Surviving... I think ;-)
[07:14] Storm Nordwind: And you?
[07:16] Yakuzza Lethecus: hope ur not sick then
[07:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: i am fine, settling in in sweden
[07:18] Storm Nordwind: I'm fine too thank you - it's just British understatement and humor. So you are in Sweden permanently now?
[07:18] Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, that´s the plan
[07:18] Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
[07:18] Storm Nordwind: Pleased to hear it. One of my favorite places.
[07:19] Storm Nordwind: Seems far too long since i was last there though. Must have been Lucia in 2004.
[07:20] Yakuzza Lethecus: Where did you see the lucia celebration back then ?
[07:20] Yakuzza Lethecus: eskilstuna
[07:20] Storm Nordwind: Stockholm - that time at least
[07:21] Storm Nordwind: i think i was in Uppsala then too
[07:21] Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i recall you mentioning gammla uppsala
[07:22] Yakuzza Lethecus: we´ve also been to those gravehills last or the year before
[07:23] Storm Nordwind: The museum they built there since my first visit is quite good too.
[07:25] Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, we´ve been in that one too and bought a few presents in the entrance store
[07:27] Storm Nordwind: It's interesting to observe one's reaction when thinking of all the places you know you'll never see again.

[07:27] Yakuzza Lethecus: well, but there are so many places that one will never see
[07:28] Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t even know borobodur existed till adams had the exhibit
[07:28] Yakuzza Lethecus: now of course it´s suddenly in civ too :P
[07:28] Storm Nordwind: haha!
[07:29] Storm Nordwind: That Buddhist tendency to build big stuff again! ;-)

[07:33] Yakuzza Lethecus: how is colorado these days ?
[07:34] Storm Nordwind: Wetter than normal.
[07:34] Storm Nordwind: It's still a great place to be.
[07:34] Storm Nordwind: This year's fires have gone.
[07:35] Storm Nordwind: But there was no Spring blossom this year, so anyone with orchards or vineyards is going to be disappointed/broke.

[07:37] Storm Nordwind: However, as you can see, I'm probably even less talkative than I once was! ;-)
[07:38] Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, the right avatar would have to come to stimulate some of ur interests
[07:38] Storm Nordwind: I doubt my interests could be captured in Second Life!
[07:38] Yakuzza Lethecus: is secondlife declining ?
[07:39] Storm Nordwind: Difficult to say
[07:39] Storm Nordwind: It's different to what it once was.
[07:39] Storm Nordwind: The people are different to some extent.
[07:40] Storm Nordwind: The landscape is different, of course. But even though that's always transient, it feels like a different culture.

[07:40] Storm Nordwind: Once it was about exploration and pioneering. I don't see that much anymore.
[07:41] Storm Nordwind: One might say that about play as Being too, though I'm not sure the two phenomena are linked.
[07:42] Yakuzza Lethecus: but no other virtual world so far has a critical amount of users to sustain it
[07:43] Storm Nordwind: True, although the fascination in the real world for virtual realities has, i suspect, declined.

[07:43] Yakuzza Lethecus: media presents it as failed
[07:44] Yakuzza Lethecus: just read the other day that swedens secondlife embassy had closed down in 2012
[07:44] Storm Nordwind: media's function is to make money, not to make accurate judgments!
[07:44] Yakuzza Lethecus: i was there in 2011 but it was deserted back then too so i never went to that place
[07:46] Storm Nordwind: Part of the problem (if it is one) is that the rate of improvement in Second Life graphics has not kept pace with the rate of improvement in other computer-based experiences. Since virtual worlds are largely a graphical experience, that will surely be to Second Life's detriment.
[07:53] Storm Nordwind: Who knows? Perhaps Second life will one day be added to the list of places I know I'll never see again! ;-)

[07:53] Yakuzza Lethecus: perhaps, tho the concept is great
[07:54] Yakuzza Lethecus: having a place to invite anyone from over the world into
[07:54] Yakuzza Lethecus: and sit on a nice place at the beach and have coffee

[07:55] Storm Nordwind: Yes. I agree. But it's interesting to compare to other more niche worlds.
[07:55] Storm Nordwind: Perhaps it's all too much work for most people
[07:55] Storm Nordwind: Too much to learn to make it really worthwhile, and not enough return en route.
[07:56] Yakuzza Lethecus: do you have a better virtual world in mind ?
[07:57] Storm Nordwind: No. But virtual worlds bring their own problems. the very "immersiveness" has its disadvantages for many people.
[07:58] Storm Nordwind: After all, you can hide less easily behind a persona in SL than say on a forum. There is less anonymity.
[07:58] Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
[07:58] Yakuzza Lethecus: exept you would constantly create alts
[07:59] Storm Nordwind: Everyone can "tweet" and create this or that impression. But how many can adjust their avatar's appearance successfully?
[07:59] Yakuzza Lethecus: if someone wants to appear successfully
[08:01] Yakuzza Lethecus: i was totally black with only one shoe for a long time
[08:01] Storm Nordwind: yes.
[08:02] Storm Nordwind: But there was more to it than that
[08:02] Storm Nordwind: Even the way the owner makes their avatar move is a huge statement of who they are
[08:02] Storm Nordwind: But most do not realize that
[08:02] Storm Nordwind: (And I don't just mean animations)
[08:03] Yakuzza Lethecus: i guess, flying or walking, tping or walking 100m
[08:03] Storm Nordwind: Yes. And the way they turn. Or walk a short distance. The rapidity or slowness which which they chat. All makes a big impression.

[08:04] Storm Nordwind: I used to be able to discern an avatar's true age and gender from just a few moments with them.
[08:05] Yakuzza Lethecus: i once brought an avatar to the goethe group, she was an us educator and had been in sl maybe 5-6 years past but she recalled her avatar, nobody believed when she had sitting issues :)
[08:06] Yakuzza Lethecus: because her avatar was so old
[08:06] Storm Nordwind smiles
[08:07] Storm Nordwind: Well, I suspect I've lost that age/gender discernment completely now. It fulfilled its use. And when I met my wife here, it was no longer needed!
[08:09] Yakuzza Lethecus: i changed my avatar when i started to go dancing in secondlife with evelyn back then
[08:09] Yakuzza Lethecus: i still have pictures from us in my black dress when we´ve been on perfect paradise and apollo
[08:10] Storm Nordwind smiles
[08:10] Yakuzza Lethecus: she was in a dress and i was totally black and that bothered me a bit so i got the tux

[08:12] Yakuzza Lethecus: i really miss fael
[08:13] Storm Nordwind nods
[08:14] Yakuzza Lethecus: gender is really something in secondlife that´s meaningless or almost
[08:15] Storm Nordwind: It depends on why you're here. if one of the reasons is to make real life relationships, then it can be important. if not, then of course not.
[08:17] Yakuzza Lethecus: well, having exposure to ppl like you was sure a reason
[08:18] Yakuzza Lethecus: when we first met you´ve been building the dome for the relam sessions
[08:18] Storm Nordwind: Oh wow... that seems so long ago!

[08:18] Yakuzza Lethecus: and i was flying and went up to the kira meetings not knowing that it´s really bothering of you go unintentional to a bunch of avatars
[08:19] Yakuzza Lethecus: was nice to see the meeting room at the sakura sim again
[08:19] Storm Nordwind: :)
[08:19] Storm Nordwind: It seemed appropriate to put it there
[08:20] Yakuzza Lethecus: or when i first went to ur theatre meetings at the kira cafe
[08:22] Yakuzza Lethecus: with that very old guy in it and i couldn´t believe that someone with 80 years would be in secondlife
[08:22] Storm Nordwind chuckles
[08:23] Storm Nordwind: I currently do a lot of flying in different virtual worlds. One of my best pilot friends there is in his 70s.

[08:28] Yakuzza Lethecus: secondlife was a totally new experience because i knew IRC and i knew gaming with ppl from around the world
[08:29] Yakuzza Lethecus: but ppl engaging in more serious subjects was totally new

[08:30] Storm Nordwind: It's mostly a vehicle for person-to-person interaction, so that was bound to happen, I think.
[08:33] Yakuzza Lethecus: the relam and mica kept a good environment, right now i don´t have any real substitute for that
[08:33] Storm Nordwind: Agreed
[08:34] Yakuzza Lethecus: well most language places shut down
[08:35] Yakuzza Lethecus: the goethe island is pretty much inactive

[08:36] Storm Nordwind: Economic recession has many peripheral casualties. People are forced to put their time, energy and money, into other things... some of which they find they like, or even prefer.
[08:38] Yakuzza Lethecus: and i don´t have that much time any longer in the european evening