2013.08.28 07:00 - Intentions Formation

The Guardian was Zen Arado. All comments are by Zen Arado. The meeting was held at Kira Cafe because of region restart.

Zen (zen.arado): Hi San :)
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Lila :)
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Zen... seems I picked the right place
Zen (zen.arado): yep ..got booted out again
Zen (zen.arado): I get ejected from pab every week :)
Lila Darkmatter: rebel
Zen (zen.arado): outcast
Lila Darkmatter: snazzy shoes ya got there
Zen (zen.arado): had them for years
Zen (zen.arado): all I wear usually
Zen (zen.arado): for shoes
Lila Darkmatter: really? somehow missed them til now
Lila Darkmatter: maybe sitting in chairs makes a difference ;-)
Zen (zen.arado): maybe they show up better with dark trousers
Zen (zen.arado): that too
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Zen (zen.arado): wb san
Lila Darkmatter: Hi San
San (santoshima): hi :)
San (santoshima): how're you two?
Lila Darkmatter: fairly well thanks
Zen (zen.arado): how long have we got :)
Zen (zen.arado): would take too long
San (santoshima): for what?
Zen (zen.arado): but not bad I guess
Lila Darkmatter: :)
San (santoshima): oh
Zen (zen.arado): to explain all my problems
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Zen (zen.arado): you know form OF anyway San
Zen (zen.arado): from
San (santoshima): as long as it takes, we have :)
Zen (zen.arado): yeh but gets boring
Zen (zen.arado): does it really help telling others your problems?
Zen (zen.arado): I wonder
San (santoshima): hmm
Lila Darkmatter: not sure either
Zen (zen.arado): it kinda exagerrates them
San (santoshima): true
Zen (zen.arado): and you dramatize them even more in the telling :)
Lila Darkmatter: avoiding telling others about problems may exaggerate them too
San (santoshima): true, too

Anger:

Zen (zen.arado): we were talking about anger at disabiity meeting last night
Zen (zen.arado): (our favourite topic)
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Lila Darkmatter: :)
San (santoshima): :)
Zen (zen.arado): ad it came to me that lots of anger comes from expectations
Zen (zen.arado): unfulfilled one
Zen (zen.arado): s
Zen (zen.arado): we expect things to turn out a certain way ...and if they don't....anger
Zen (zen.arado): what do you think?
Lila Darkmatter: can see that, yet ...
Lila Darkmatter: not sure it is a terrible thing to expect
Lila Darkmatter: expect a level of manners in the marketplace, etc
Zen (zen.arado): but the world isn't designed to suit us
Zen (zen.arado): perhaps a belief in God induces that
Zen (zen.arado): ?
Zen (zen.arado): like someone should be looking after us?
San (santoshima): ideally
Lila Darkmatter: or that we should be looking after each other
San (santoshima): that would be right
Zen (zen.arado): agree Lila but if manners aren't forthcoming ..hmm
Lila Darkmatter: /me nods
Lila Darkmatter: I let myself get really angry a few days ago and it felt great
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Yaku :)
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Ya :)
San (santoshima): hi yaku
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): hey everyone
Zen (zen.arado): because anger gives us a feeling of power
Zen (zen.arado): ?
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): have you been right ?
Zen (zen.arado): right?
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): anger might be different on the situtation what someone is angry about
Lila Darkmatter: yes
Zen (zen.arado): yeh but should look below the situation
Zen (zen.arado): at the raw energy before we give it a label and justify it
Zen (zen.arado): my angry feeling might be different than yours
Zen (zen.arado): I often feel a sense of hurt with anger
Lila Darkmatter: /me nods... relate to that
Zen (zen.arado): that's the worst anger
Zen (zen.arado): 'how could he/she do that to me?
San (santoshima): disbelief, almost?
Zen (zen.arado): yeh
Lila Darkmatter: might be a legitimate question to ask?
San (santoshima): yes
Zen (zen.arado): expectations thawrted again
Zen (zen.arado): thwarted
Zen (zen.arado): weird word :)
San (santoshima): sounds like it means
San (santoshima): tangled in the mouth
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Zen (zen.arado): yes :)
Zen (zen.arado): but people don't go by our rukes
Zen (zen.arado): they have their own agenda
Zen (zen.arado): rules
Lila Darkmatter: well sometimes we are cocreating them as we go?
Zen (zen.arado): or we think we are
Zen (zen.arado): until they veer from our creative plans
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Lila Darkmatter: is it me or do you have a fast typing AO? lol
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): he has :)
Zen (zen.arado): rules and behavioural expectations are useful and necessary I guess
Lila Darkmatter: :) thanks
Zen (zen.arado): yeh a new AO
Lila Darkmatter: wild
Zen (zen.arado): need to modify it
Lila Darkmatter: it is interesting, but sorry to divert...just had to ask
Zen (zen.arado): typing is still as slow:)

Intentions:

Zen (zen.arado): so...intentions
Zen (zen.arado): figured them out yet?
Zen (zen.arado): if that was the intention :)
Zen (zen.arado): an intention can have a lot of parts?
Lila Darkmatter: a lot of couples therapy or team workings are based on people getting along who have varying degrees of rule adheresion
Zen (zen.arado): be general or particular?
Lila Darkmatter: sorry , thought from before :)
Zen (zen.arado): ah yes
Zen (zen.arado): is that a correct word 'adheresion'?
Lila Darkmatter: letter of law vs as you go
Lila Darkmatter: no , hah... no such word
Zen (zen.arado): adhesion?
Zen (zen.arado): ok
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Lila Darkmatter: <--as you go
Zen (zen.arado): looks plausible though :)
Lila Darkmatter: :) I thought so
Zen (zen.arado): like 'adherents'
Zen (zen.arado): to rules
Lila Darkmatter: :)
Zen (zen.arado): intentions are bound up with rules some way aren't they?
San (santoshima): boundaries are
Zen (zen.arado): they form our intentions a lot
Lila Darkmatter: in a way, yes
Lila Darkmatter: our own rules for ourselves?
San (santoshima): yes
Zen (zen.arado): well boundaries allow intentions to go only so far
Zen (zen.arado): they bound them
San (santoshima): hmm
Zen (zen.arado): or prevent them maybe
San (santoshima): i am willing to be convinced, but not yet convinced
Zen (zen.arado): I took the Zen precepts one time
San (santoshima): right
Zen (zen.arado): a kind of list of rules for behaviour
Lila Darkmatter: /me nods
Zen (zen.arado): but guidelines only
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): hey sunshine
Sunshine (szavanna): hi all ;))
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Sunji :)
Lila Darkmatter: Hi Sun :)
Lila Darkmatter: my intention is to speak from the heart and I think I'm doing okay... it feels as though there isn't enough place to do so, but I'm sure that's habitual not-seeing
Sunshine (szavanna): finally I made it °͜°
Lila Darkmatter: nice to see you Sun
Zen (zen.arado): but where did the intention come from?
Sunshine (szavanna): you too :))
Zen (zen.arado): what happens if it never forms?
Zen (zen.arado): perhaps others are trying to inculcate the good intentions in us
San (santoshima): hi Szavanna
Zen (zen.arado): don't we do that with kids?
Zen (zen.arado): so maybe we avoid having the intentions others think we should have
Zen (zen.arado): heh getting myself twisted here
Lila Darkmatter: :) me too
Zen (zen.arado): shows the limits of this kind of analysis I think
Zen (zen.arado): I just finish up saying 'I don't know'
Zen (zen.arado): my life is a mystery
Lila Darkmatter: for me the intention holding isn't so much to understand more but to change.. to move differently, if that makes sense
San (santoshima): { * }
Zen (zen.arado): yes
Zen (zen.arado): but we are trying to find where that comes from
Zen (zen.arado): if it doesn't especially
Zen (zen.arado): I think my intentions just form themselves
Zen (zen.arado): out of all the influences I am exposed to
Zen (zen.arado): I think my Christian upbringing has influenced me and still does
Zen (zen.arado): maybe more than I think
Zen (zen.arado): my ideas of right and wrong
Zen (zen.arado): you will change when it is necessary
Zen (zen.arado): maybe that can't be forced
Zen (zen.arado): it's like finding the flow of life and going along with it?
Zen (zen.arado): not thinking 'I should be more this or that'
Lila Darkmatter: it is an interesting idea... intentions arising and forming out of everything
Zen (zen.arado): well where else do they come from?
Zen (zen.arado): my culture dictates them so much

Sunshine (szavanna): That reminds me of a video - the flow of life ...- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y44TuSSt69c
Zen (zen.arado): I don't have an intention to eat humans
Zen (zen.arado): maybe I would have in another culture many years ago
Lila Darkmatter: /me clicks.... yes this is apt
Zen (zen.arado): yeh Alan Watts is good
San (santoshima): some seem decidedly inedible anyway ...
Sunshine (szavanna): there is a short talk in the beginning ...nice to hear
Zen (zen.arado): :)
Lila Darkmatter: haha
Sunshine (szavanna): hehe San ;p
San (santoshima): thanks, Sun
San (santoshima): for the video, will watch later
Sunshine (szavanna): yw :)
Zen (zen.arado): me too TY Sunji
Zen (zen.arado): never saw that one
Sunshine (szavanna): I am training at Tai Chi DJ :)
Zen (zen.arado): I read a great book of his on Taoism a year or so ago
Sunshine (szavanna): ah which one
Lila Darkmatter: water course way?
Zen (zen.arado): checks Kindle

San (santoshima): main internalized influences for intentions: sunday school parables, western medical model of human anatomy, learning to read by phonetic spelling
San (santoshima): for myself
Zen (zen.arado): yes that's the one
San (santoshima): sorry, interrupted
Sunshine (szavanna): http://www.amazon.com/Tao-The-Waterc.../dp/0394733118
Lila Darkmatter: sunday school parables are a big one
Zen (zen.arado): he writes a lot about the Chinese language, too, in it
Zen (zen.arado): taking that into account
Zen (zen.arado): I don't read much these days
Zen (zen.arado): suddenly lost interest in reading
Zen (zen.arado): don't know why
Zen (zen.arado): yeh I wonder how much of that early teaching sticks to us
San (santoshima): :)
Zen (zen.arado): the old Jesuit teaching about teaching children
Zen (zen.arado): I forget it exactly
Zen (zen.arado): but it is so effective at an early age
Lila Darkmatter: train a child in the way it should go ... ?
Zen (zen.arado): yeh something like that
Zen (zen.arado): 'give me a child before the age of 7 and I will give you the man' or something
Lila Darkmatter: oh I see
Zen (zen.arado): "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man"
Zen (zen.arado): looked it up
San (santoshima): except if it's a woman
Zen (zen.arado): well they didn't count in those days :)
Zen (zen.arado): is education a way of inculcating good intentions then?
Lila Darkmatter: not necessarily "good intentions"
Zen (zen.arado): what then?
Lila Darkmatter: but of "civilizing" in a certain way I guess, to fit an agenda of the future
Zen (zen.arado): it was very mush so when I was child I remember
Lila Darkmatter: I need to go... thanks Zen and everyone
Sunshine (szavanna): hugs Lila ❤
Zen (zen.arado): kk ty for coming Lila :)
Sunshine (szavanna): hope to see you soon
San (santoshima): bye Lila, thanks ~
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): take care lila
Lila Darkmatter: tc, hugs all around
Zen (zen.arado): hugs
San (santoshima): am needing to leave as well ~ thanks Zen, Yaku, Sunshine
Sunshine (szavanna): take care San :)
Zen (zen.arado): kk byee San
Zen (zen.arado): take care
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): bye san
Yaku (yakuzza.lethecus): bye you two
Sunshine (szavanna): byebyee hugs Yakuzza
Zen (zen.arado): byee Yaku :)
Sunshine (szavanna): °͜°
Zen (zen.arado): how are you Sunji?
Sunshine (szavanna): better °͜°
Zen (zen.arado): haven't seen you much
Sunshine (szavanna): was a bit tired
Zen (zen.arado): ok
Sunshine (szavanna): so nice to be back
Sunshine (szavanna): so we do DJing on Friday
Zen (zen.arado): yeh sure
Sunshine (szavanna): like we planned for last week
Sunshine (szavanna): if that is ok :)
Zen (zen.arado): if you want to
Sunshine (szavanna): yes °͜°
Sunshine (szavanna): how are you doing Zenji