The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Maude!
Bruce Mowbray: Somehow I knew you'd be arriving!
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome aboard. How's your weekend going?
DR42 Resident: Great. how is yours?
Bruce Mowbray: Very good, thanks.
DR42 Resident: I just made a dry rub for chicken on the grill. And the chicken is brining right now.
Bruce Mowbray: Great! Barbeque chicken?
DR42 Resident: Yep.
Bruce Mowbray: yum yum.
DR42 Resident: We brine our chicken just about all the time, helps it be really tender and moist.
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm. Sounds great.
Bruce Mowbray: I still eat meat, but my typist gave it up and became a vegan two months ago.
DR42 Resident: Really? did you find it difficult?
Bruce Mowbray: No, he found it very easy indeed.
Bruce Mowbray: Wished he'd done it forty years ago.
DR42 Resident: I went ovo-lacto vegetarian when I had stomach surgery, but I will have chicken. I avoid beef.
DR42 Resident: eggs, milk, etc. I need the higher protein and calcium since my stomach and most of my small intestine is gone.
Bruce Mowbray: Oh my.
Bruce Mowbray: Ovo-lacto vegan means that you do eat eggs and milk?
DR42 Resident: Oh, and fish. But only white fish, no tuna, salmon, swordfish.
DR42 Resident: yes
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I still love a think juicy steak, so when my typist's back is turned, I devour one.

--BELL--

DR42 Resident: Yes, I saw it vanish quite quickly.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
DR42 Resident: Two, eh, you are hungry.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, the dead meat just keeps arriving until I take off the animation, so I'd best be doing that now.
DR42 Resident: Hmm, looks like the waiter dropped it....
Bruce Mowbray: Is this the steak set?
Bruce Mowbray: Looks more like a surf board. . .. THERE it is!
Bruce Mowbray: Bon appetite!
Bruce Mowbray: Did you enjoy your steak?
DR42 Resident: Yes, but it was way too much food. Normally, a meal is only 4-5 oz.
Bruce Mowbray: heh. Not to worry. . . I doubt that you'll gain weight in-world.
DR42 Resident: Yes, that, and I don't have to worry about wearing dry clean only clothes, even in the water.
Bruce Mowbray: and no litter, either!
DR42 Resident: Ha, I have been places that have litter.....
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe you could give me some advice about telescopes....
DR42 Resident: I don't know much, I just have mine, and it is almost 30 years old.
Bruce Mowbray: Tomorrow a friend will give me his 8" reflector....
DR42 Resident: That is big.
Bruce Mowbray: I will probably need to have it reconditioned.
Bruce Mowbray: and get a tripod and GoTo computer for it.
Bruce Mowbray: I am totally ignorant about these things, but am eager to learn.
DR42 Resident: I used a compass and a level.
Bruce Mowbray: So you find the celestial entities without a computerized finder?
DR42 Resident: Yep, only bright ones. First in the spotting scope, then in the real one.
Bruce Mowbray: but the earth continues to rotate...
Bruce Mowbray: so, don't you need to make continual adjustments for that?
DR42 Resident: Yes, but I never looked at much that required it very much.
Bruce Mowbray: Here is Qt!
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Qt.
Qt Core: Hi Bruce, Marjorie
DR42 Resident: Hi QT
Bruce Mowbray: I think Qt is an expert on these things.
Qt Core: ?
DR42 Resident: Well, I certainly am not.
Bruce Mowbray: Tomorrow a friend will give me his 8" reflector....
Bruce Mowbray: I will probably need to have it reconditioned.
Bruce Mowbray: and get a tripod and GoTo computer for it.
Bruce Mowbray: I am totally ignorant about these things, but am eager to learn.
Qt Core: me too, i love astronomy but i don't have a telescope
Bruce Mowbray: ohhh. kk.
Qt Core: but i know that a solid tripod is essential

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I'd like to use Stellarium in conjunction with my telescope, if I can figure out how2.
DR42 Resident: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/677179-REG/Celestron_52268_C90_MAK_Spotting_Scope.html
DR42 Resident: Is what I have. It is small
Qt Core: a great telescope is useless if the tripod is too light and keeps vibrating
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I will definitely need to get a better tripod.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Maude. I've bookmarked that for viewing in detail later. Looks like a nice scope.
Bruce Mowbray: and a good website-store.
DR42 Resident: It's only 3.5 inches, very small, but, not very expensive, either.
DR42 Resident: B&H is THE big photo discounter in New York City.
Qt Core: you should find a nearby (i'd like to hear your definition of nearby in km) amateur astronomer club, that's the easiest way to learn the practical part of using a telescope
Bruce Mowbray: kk. YT! Will definitely look into that site.
Bruce Mowbray: I see that they also have used equipment.
Bruce Mowbray: There is an excellent astronomy club about an hour's drive north of the farm where I live.
Bruce Mowbray: an hour's drive is "nearby" for moi, btw.
Bruce Mowbray: A couple of years ago,
Qt Core: :-) the club I'm part of is 3 minutes... by feet
Bruce Mowbray: wow!
Bruce Mowbray: A couple of years ago,
Bruce Mowbray: an extra-terrestrial group from Columbus (40 miles away)
Bruce Mowbray: came to the farm to look for ET's.
Bruce Mowbray: It was a fascinating experience for me.
Bruce Mowbray: There were about 14 of them,
Bruce Mowbray: and we all sat in a circle in the field and they broadcast sounds..
Bruce Mowbray: at various frequencies and volumes and directions.
Bruce Mowbray: in order to attract and welcome the ET's.
Qt Core: !
Bruce Mowbray: I neveri n the world thought I'd be host to that sort of a group.
Bruce Mowbray: but it was FUN!
Bruce Mowbray: I still have a copy of the tape that they used.
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe when I get my telescope all fixed up,
Bruce Mowbray: I'll get out there in the field and run the ET tape at the same time I'm searching the heavens.
Qt Core: we once had a ufo local expert at our club speaking of the ufos he regularly see directly from his windows... when we offered the instruments and time of some of the members to take better pictures he disappeared... ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: The thing that amazed me most was the utter sincerity of the group.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I would also like to see some visual evidence.
Bruce Mowbray: All I heard was second-hand reports of the "glowing bodies" and stuff like that.
Qt Core: he had pics and videotapes.. of very low quality so we offered ours equipment..
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Qt Core: i told already... never saw him again... but he went on tv on dubious shows
Bruce Mowbray smiles.
Qt Core: he is even a supporter that the earth is void and there is another civilization leaving inside it
Bruce Mowbray: Inside the earth?!
Qt Core: living

--BELL--

Qt Core: yes
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Ari!
Arisia Vita: greetings all
Bruce Mowbray: I am fascinated by the "duality" of thoughts on this: On one hand, cosmologists are in agreement that there are millions of intelligent civilizations out there...
Bruce Mowbray: but on the other hand,
Qt Core: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth
Bruce Mowbray: there seem to be a lot of weird notions about it.
Arisia Vita: is there still a "flat earth" society?
Bruce Mowbray ponders "subterranean societies...."
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes, there is still a Flat Earth Society, I believe.
Arisia Vita: I guess you can always find someone who believes something if you look hard enough.
Bruce Mowbray: http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
Qt Core: i'm almost sure that aliens exist, but between the Fermi paradox and i'm pretty sure that if that is not the case given the tech they should have to come here if they don't want to be seen we would not see them, if they want they'll land in front of the UN headquarters
DR42 Resident is somewhat of a Luddite.
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Qt Core: a sl luddite ?!
Bruce Mowbray: You know something? My typist has friends in RL who think that SL is every bit as phony as they believe the Flat Earth Society is.
Qt Core: (hi ari, forgot to greet before)
Arisia Vita: greetings Qt
Bruce Mowbray wonders how it would be possible to access SL and also be a Luddite.
DR42 Resident: Well, slow to adopt new technology, my pc is as old as SL.
Bruce Mowbray: gotcha!
Bruce Mowbray: I understand, Maude.
Qt Core: modern luddites are the one that don't have smartphones and 3d tv sets
Bruce Mowbray: I guess all things are relative, huh?
DR42 Resident: Which I have neither.
Bruce Mowbray: My typist has no cell phone and only one TV.
Bruce Mowbray: (not 3D).
DR42 Resident: My TV isn't a flat screen either, it is an old "tube" Sony/
Arisia Vita: If a person's belief's happen not to mirror the "truth", what does it matter?
Arisia Vita: as long as their beliefs comfort them in some way
Bruce Mowbray: My typist got rid of his old tube TV about a year ago -- the flat version is much preferable.
Bruce Mowbray: As Pilate said to Jesus, "What is truth?"
DR42 Resident: But, it costs money I don't have to spend.
Bruce Mowbray: I hear you on that one, Maude.
Arisia Vita: what was the reply?
Bruce Mowbray: No reply, as I recall.
DR42 Resident: Truth is all-too-often simply the popular belief.
Bruce Mowbray: or else the reply may have varied from gospel to gospel....
Qt Core: around here tube tvs almost disappeared with the digital transmission switch
Bruce Mowbray: which is also an interesting subject for looking into and testing your tolerance for difference perspectives
DR42 Resident: I cannot get digital signals where I live.
Bruce Mowbray: I can't get cell phone digital here either, Maude.
Bruce Mowbray: (Which might mean that it's an excellent spot for astronomy.)
Qt Core: ;)
DR42 Resident: If I am on the second floor of the house, I can.
Bruce Mowbray: I can get TV digital, though.
Bruce Mowbray: but it requires TWO signal boosters.
Bruce Mowbray: (coming from almost 50 miles away).
DR42 Resident: I have "analog" TV.
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. Would they let you install an antenna on the roof, Maude?
Bruce Mowbray: That's where mine is.
Qt Core: if someone believes in something that is his truth, if something else is recognized as truth he is changing his beliefs
DR42 Resident: Yes, but it is still too far to get digital TV signals.
Bruce Mowbray: oh my. sorry.
Arisia Vita: Is that always true Qt?
Qt Core: around here there is no more analog signal
Arisia Vita: some people hold on to false beliefs tenaciously
Bruce Mowbray: but maybe you're better off after all. None of that worthless junk on TV to distract you from more important things in life.
DR42 Resident: Like meditation.
Bruce Mowbray: No more analogue here either, Qt.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, it is what you make of it, I suppose.
Qt Core: yes, ari, but even after having acknowledged that they aren't true ?
Bruce Mowbray: I am currently reading a biography of John Cage...
Arisia Vita: good question Qt
Bruce Mowbray: and discovering that virtually every possible noise from the environment may be thought of as "music."
Bruce Mowbray: "Where the Heart Beats"...
Bruce Mowbray: an excellent book...
Bruce Mowbray: I didn't realize that Cage was also a Buddhist...
Bruce Mowbray: and incorporated Buddhist ideas into his musical theory.
Qt Core: the changing belief process may be long and painful but it would be hard keeping beliefs you really know to be wrong

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/Where-Heart-Beats-Buddhism-ebook/dp/B0064W5NYQ
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/books/where-the-heart-beats-john-cage-biography-by-kay-larson.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, San!
Santoshima Resident: late ... ty
Arisia Vita: welcome San
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/books/where-the-heart-beats-john-cage-biography-by-kay-larson.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Santoshima Resident: :)
Qt Core: hi San
Bruce Mowbray: This is an excellent book on John Cage... that my typist is currently reading, san.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Zen.
Santoshima Resident: ok
Qt Core: hi Zen
Santoshima Resident: clicking
Arisia Vita: welcome Zen
Zen Arado: Hi all
Bruce Mowbray: I just gave this link to san...
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/books/where-the-heart-beats-john-cage-biography-by-kay-larson.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Bruce Mowbray: about John Cage and Zen Buddhism... a book that my typist is currently reading.
Zen Arado: ty
Santoshima Resident: looks good
Bruce Mowbray: In any case, learning the Zen mind was Cage’s major solution. Daisetz T. Suzuki, the Japanese writer and scholar, came to North America in 1950 on a tour sponsored by the Rockefeller Foundation, and Cage attended some of Suzuki’s lectures in New York. The lessons he absorbed — particularly one on the ego and the outside world, reconstructed and well narrated by Ms. Larson — solidified notions he’d already been swimming toward through his early studies in harmony with Arnold Schoenberg; his interest in the ideas of noise and anti-art taken from Futurism and Dada; and his readings of Christian and Hindu mystics. What he learned from Suzuki forms this book’s core, and even its structure.
Bruce Mowbray: My typist is really enjoying the book -- although he's only about one-third through it.
Bruce Mowbray: If one really accepts the notion that "Everything is grist for the mill [Ram Dass], then "noise" is also.
Bruce Mowbray: That's a hard one for me, though.
Zen Arado: careful Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Santoshima Resident: what mill?
Santoshima Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Ram Dass wrote a book: "Grist for the Mill"
Santoshima Resident: ah!
Bruce Mowbray: Grist for the Mill.
Bruce Mowbray: and it was a sort of Bible for my typist for a long while.
Bruce Mowbray: basically the same idea as "Dharma Gates are infinite."
Zen Arado: DT Suzuki was more academic than Shunryu
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Zen Arado: (Suzuki)
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/Grist-Mill-Opportunity-Awakening-Karmuppance/dp/0890874999
Zen Arado: the article seems more about intellectual reading of Zen
Zen Arado: and Zen teaches you to go more by direct experience
Zen Arado: all I'm going to say
Bruce Mowbray: Take whatever comes down the pike. - Everything is grist for the mill. - Not "this" or "that" but "whatever". - Keep giving up your story line. - All of life is a meditation cushion.Bruce Mowbray: Leave behind every model you have had of who you think you are. - You are going to suffer if you cling to anything in form. - Disappear into the void
Zen Arado: I'm rereading Steve Hagen's book
Bruce Mowbray: - The only thing that dies is another set of thoughts of who we were in this lifetime. - Our entire life drama is food for our awakening.
Bruce Mowbray: Would you say more about the book you're reading, Zen?
Zen Arado: http://www.amazon.com/World-Doesnt-Seem-Make-Sense/dp/1591811805/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377378669&sr=8-1&keywords=steve+hagen
Bruce Mowbray: ty!
Bruce Mowbray: In this wise and original book, science writer and Zen priest Steve Hagen helps us to perceive the world as it is, not merely as we conceive it to be. This revised and updated edition includes new scientific understandings and clarifications of some of the more complex ideas. “Read this book: it will change how you look at things.” – Nick Herbert, Ph.D., author of Quantum Reality
DR42 Resident: I'm reading "Life After Trauma". I guess I run with the wrong crowd.
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.amazon.com/Life-After-Trauma-Second-Edition/dp/1606236083
DR42 Resident: Yes
Bruce Mowbray: Trauma can turn your world upside down--afterward, nothing may look safe or familiar. This compassionate workbook has already helped tens of thousands of trauma survivors start rebuilding their lives. Full of practical strategies for coping and self-care, the book guides you toward reclaiming a solid sense of safety, self-worth, trust, and control, as well as the capacity to be close to others. The focus is on finding the way forward in your life today, no matter what has happened in the past.
Zen Arado: nothing right or wrong..it's what interests you atm
Zen Arado: sometimes feel guided in what books I select to read
Bruce Mowbray: Not to be rude, but what interests my typist at the moment is filling his empty stomach.
Zen Arado: anyone else find that?
Bruce Mowbray: So, alas, I must be off.
Arisia Vita: I too am hungry Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: May all be safe and well.
Zen Arado: kk byee Bruce
Qt Core: bye Bruce, enjoy
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, my friends.
DR42 Resident: bye
Zen Arado: bye all

--BELL--

Arisia Vita: it was great being with you all
Arisia Vita: with apologies to the quiet bell, I will tiptoe out... :)
Santoshima Resident: so long, to those leaving
DR42 Resident: bye
Santoshima Resident: bye
Santoshima Resident: hmm
Santoshima Resident: must arrive earlier, it seems
Qt Core: :)
Santoshima Resident: ok, time to get back to errands ... good to see you QT ... bfn
Qt Core: bye