The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. Comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Archmage Atlantis, Bertram Jacobus, Calvino Rabeni, Freud Jungsten, Moon Fargis and myself.

Introductions:

Zen Arado: Hello Bertram :)
Bertram Jacobus: heyy zen - good morning ! :-)
Zen Arado: how are you this morning?
Bertram Jacobus: i´m laggin very much lol - no idea why ;-)+
Bertram Jacobus: and hello arch ! :-)
Zen Arado: Hi Arch:)
Bertram Jacobus: and how are you zen and arch today ? :-)
Zen Arado: I'm fine thanks
Zen Arado: just checked and I think that's right :)
Archmage Atlantis: Fine so far, just woke up 20 minutes ago
Archmage Atlantis: Gotta get coffee, brb
Zen Arado: I got up at 7.30 - 1 1/2 hours ago
Zen Arado: that's how long it takes me to shower and have breakfast
Bertram Jacobus: ah okay - that´s quite a time ... hm
Zen Arado: my avatar seems to be losing hair on top I notice
Archmage Atlantis: back.....let's see.....it's 4:09
Archmage Atlantis: AM here
Bertram Jacobus: again and again astonishing times you are on here arch (!) ... ;-)
Archmage Atlantis: And only my rl body is losing hair on top
Archmage Atlantis: So all is normal
Archmage Atlantis: :)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. and zen : may be typical man´s awareness about such : did you wear other hair before ? i mean, your avatar ? ;-)
Zen Arado: maybe I need a new hairstyle
Zen Arado: only had one other style I think
Archmage Atlantis: Actually, Zen, your av has a full head of short hair on my viewer
Bertram Jacobus: same here
Zen Arado: well - from the top there is a line down the middle
Bertram Jacobus: looks like some hair which some shapes bring with
Archmage Atlantis: vanity, vanity *g*
Zen Arado: Zen is very vain :)
Bertram Jacobus giggles ...
Archmage Atlantis: :) - I feel lucky if I wind up wherever I'm tping to fully dressed and with not animal parts

I raised the topic of unemployment:

Zen Arado: Bert - Eckhart wrote something about unemployment in a newsletter - would you like to see it?
Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle
Bertram Jacobus: and the "line" i could see perhaps is at most REALLY small and nearly not visible here - if you hadn´t mentioned it - i wouldn´t have noticed ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe - women would be exited may be : three men talking about appearance ! :o)
Zen Arado: Hi Cal :)
Bertram Jacobus: oops - sry
Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Hi everyone :)
Bertram Jacobus: hy cal and ty zen for the text !
Zen Arado: Hello Freud :)
Freud Jungsten: O si yo.
Archmage Atlantis: So both of you, Zen & Cal, like Tolle's writings?
Zen Arado: have you been here before Freud?
Bertram Jacobus: most from ET i like very much , but i think, i will be employed very soon again - and also : employment seems not so important to me ...
Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Freud
Freud Jungsten: I couple of time yes, thank you.
Bertram Jacobus: oh and hello freud ! :-)
Zen Arado: ok so you are ok that meetings are recorded
Zen Arado: ?
Freud Jungsten: I am.
Zen Arado: ok great
Freud Jungsten: Thank you for asking though.
Zen Arado: yes Arch - I like some of his stuff
Archmage Atlantis: I have 2 of his books, they were recommended by a therapist I trust.....but I find that when I try to read them, I don't feel motivated to read much of them
Zen Arado: I liked that article about unemployment because it is so down to earth and practical
Zen Arado: if anyone else wants it i have it on a notecard?
Freud Jungsten: Which author?
Archmage Atlantis: Employment vs. unemplyment is an interesting topic
Freud Jungsten: Sure.
Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle
Freud Jungsten: Might have heard the name.
Zen Arado: I'll offer it to everyone - delete or don't accept as you wish
Freud Jungsten: wa do
Archmage Atlantis: When I was unemployed for and extended period some years ago, I came to a place were work was just work, not self defining
Archmage Atlantis: That lasted about 2 years after returning to work before I was back in the "rat race" again *g*
Archmage Atlantis: Tks , Zen
Zen Arado: yes - seems a lot of people's self worth is derived from employment
Zen Arado: I have even seen people kind of collapse when they retire
Zen Arado: lose interest in everything
Zen Arado: it's as if the job was holding them together
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, I made my way back up the corp ladder, then this disablity retirement plus a lot of other changes have been difficult adjustments......I've gained a lot from PaB and the more thoughtful
Archmage Atlantis: SL meetings in this period
Zen Arado: yes - I had to retire early because of disability
Zen Arado: but I was glad in a way because I could then do things I wanted to do
Zen Arado: though not things with a large physical component
Archmage Atlantis: I skimmed the quote.....I agree with it....it is easier to read about than to acheive
Zen Arado: I could paint and study things
Freud Jungsten: I like the perspective.
Zen Arado: yes - sorry it is a bit long to read quickly
Archmage Atlantis: I don't know if you shared the notecard with the quote with everyone, Zen, but it is worth sharing if others would like it (I did share the quote with everyone)

An aside on Eckhart Tolle:

Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle is a German guy who was studying for a Ph D in England when he had a period of depression than led to an enlightenment experience
Archmage Atlantis: It is in line with much of Buddhist teaching......at least some schools of Buddhism anyway
Archmage Atlantis: Also, now, a best selling author of a series of books....and I think he does lectures also
Freud Jungsten: I think there are parallels into several religious tradtions in there.
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, I agree Freud.
Zen Arado: he seems to have had a kind of enlightenment experience which then led him into an investigation of various religions
Archmage Atlantis: I seem to be missing the bell consistently this AM.....obviously the coffee hasn't kicked in :)
Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
Zen Arado: so you find bits of Zen, Advaita, ACIM and Chritianity in his writings
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, an interesting mix
Calvino Rabeni: the quote you gave for instance is talking about what I'd call conscious suffering
Zen Arado: he is a very popular speaker all around the world
Calvino Rabeni: that is using the energy of suffering as a motivation for self revelation
Zen Arado: he did a series with Ophrah a couple of years ago
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: and he was very poor himself for a number of years so he speaks from experience here
Freud Jungsten: lol.... OK there goes is credibility... smiles
Zen Arado: I know :)
Freud Jungsten: But....... the perspective that get from being poor is not necesarily better than one you get from being well off.
Calvino Rabeni: There doesn't seem anything new about ET, but perhaps, every time has it's interpreters
Archmage Atlantis: Speaking on Oprah I assume, Freud....the credibility I mean
Calvino Rabeni: It's palatable to a lot of people
Freud Jungsten: If that was the case, I would have been a saint before I reach high school.
Freud Jungsten: Yes, that was my joke.
Zen Arado: agree Cal - but he can put things in a very clear and sometimes humourous way
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: it's how we use our suffering I guess
Archmage Atlantis: Sigh, well, I'm doing it in the opposite direction, well off to poor.......That does have some shock to the system value *g*

How much wealth do we really 'need' ?

Zen Arado: I find I don't need much money any more
Freud Jungsten: I am still a student, so I have this certail level of artifucial affluence, in a simple sort of way.
Zen Arado: I'm not wealthy but I have far more money than I actually need
Zen Arado: when I was young I never had enough money for the nice cars and other stuff I wanted
Freud Jungsten: Need is a funy word though.
Zen Arado: but now I can't drive ...and I don't wnat to go on expensive holidays...
Zen Arado: agree Freud - it's what we think we need maybe
Freud Jungsten: And if you look at it, everyone here has internet access, presumable broadband, which places us automaticaly in the catagory of some of the most privledged people in the history of the planet.
Freud Jungsten: What we consider poor is great wealth in parts of africa and asia.
Zen Arado: true
Freud Jungsten: Or on Reservations in the states for that mater.
Zen Arado: and I notice that ET now is pretty rich
Zen Arado: but maybe he gives a lot of it away
Archmage Atlantis: Well yes, it is a relative thing Freud,,,,,,I just can't get all the toys I used to like.....but I did decide that internet access and a decent PC were priorities over some other things
Zen Arado: SL is for rich people then I guess
Zen Arado: rich Westerners
Archmage Atlantis: For now, probably true Zen
Archmage Atlantis: And the Japanese are here a fair amount
Zen Arado: but you wouldn't even have internet access in lots of poor countries Arch
Calvino Rabeni: Have you ever considered, it may be easier to be happy in a third world country / culture?
Zen Arado: oh yes - I think that is true
Archmage Atlantis: I think it may be easier to be happy if one has a stable community.....
Zen Arado: maybe all of our gadgets just serve to isolate us from others
Freud Jungsten: If you live ina culture that is materialistic, I think it is pretty hard to genuinely happy, regaurdless if you are first or third world.
Archmage Atlantis: That happens for many in "less rich" countries, true......but like everything, that is a broad assumption
Zen Arado: rich people have more to worry about
Zen Arado: more fear of losing what they have
Archmage Atlantis: There is also more physical suffering, and forced
Archmage Atlantis: can't think of the right words
Archmage Atlantis: forced choice I guess

Automobile isolation:

Zen Arado: just thinking - even driving a car tends to isolate us in a metal box
Freud Jungsten: THat is why I have a motorcycle.. smiles
Zen Arado: and so many drive alone to work etc
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, especially in the US, where we never walk anywhere as everything is designed at car distance
Calvino Rabeni: Yes Freud, that's a great thing about motorcycles
Zen Arado: yes - I noticed that in Florida
Calvino Rabeni: especially in places where many or most people use them
Archmage Atlantis: Most roadways don't even have a safe place to walk or ride a bike
Zen Arado: there aren't even any sidewalks in the US in many places
Freud Jungsten: Well, around Tulsa we walk a lot, maybe thta is just Tusla.
Zen Arado: but America seems to have evolved along with the automobile
Zen Arado: that will cause problems as the oil runs out I think
Calvino Rabeni: Then for a while we'll see more motorcycles
Zen Arado: and smaller cars
Zen Arado: Hi Moon :)
Freud Jungsten: THis will probably sound dumb
Archmage Atlantis: NYC and cities that evolved before cars became common......plus there was the sububan, then the exurban dream....those had unexpected consequences
Freud Jungsten: But I feel safter on my Buel..... as I feel more in control.
Freud Jungsten: O si yo.
Bertram Jacobus: hello moon :-)
Zen Arado: oh I thought I was going to crash - but it's Moons' flowers :)
Archmage Atlantis: Depends on the traffic, I would think, Freud......On I-95 in SE Florida it's not even safe in a car
Freud Jungsten: O ... is that what that is?
Freud Jungsten: I used to live in Tampa..
Moon Fargis looks in the air and knows nothing
Freud Jungsten: Love riding in Florida.
Archmage Atlantis: trucks throw lead pipes that fall from other trucks though car windows
Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Moon
Zen Arado: the freeways are dangerous in heavy rainstorms I remember
Archmage Atlantis: And surrounding meadow
Freud Jungsten: Have to stop every once in a while to clean the bugs of your visor though.
Bertram Jacobus: what could be known moon ? :-)
Freud Jungsten: I dont mind riding in the rain.
Freud Jungsten: I just dont' like getting cold.
Archmage Atlantis: you are the only person I know, Moon, who takes a garden with him wherever he goes

Bugs:

Moon Fargis: drive with open mouth on your bike and you never shall be hungry
Moon Fargis: aslong you drive :)
Archmage Atlantis: Yuk, Freud......does Tulsa have love bugs?
Freud Jungsten: Oh ick.... lol.. no thanks.
Freud Jungsten: What do you call love bugs?
Archmage Atlantis: They swarm in late summer, are attracted to roadways, splat on windshields in such volumue
Archmage Atlantis: that windshield has to be cleaned every few miles
Freud Jungsten: I think I know what you are talking about, so yes.
Moon Fargis: beetlejuice
Freud Jungsten: I dont know what we call them here though.
Archmage Atlantis: Called 'love bugs" because once they mate, the male is permanently attached to the female, and dragged behind here as she flies
Freud Jungsten: lol...oh ick.
Moon Fargis: hmm
Calvino Rabeni needs to depart
Calvino Rabeni: I will sleep on that :)
Moon Fargis: maybe he dont wantto depart :)
Zen Arado: ok bye Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Good night
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Zen Arado: take care
Freud Jungsten: do na da go hv i
Moon Fargis: nigh cal :)
Bertram Jacobus: bye cal - have a nice time ! *wave* ... :-)
Archmage Atlantis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bug
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, time for morning chores
Archmage Atlantis: TY everyone for a pleasant meeting
Archmage Atlantis: Bye for now
Moon Fargis: bye arch
Zen Arado: thanks for coming Arch
Zen Arado: bye
Bertram Jacobus: ty 2 arch - great time for you too plz ! :-)
Freud Jungsten: Caio bello.
Bertram Jacobus: okay - i´ll leave too - ty for the talk - have a nice time and may all beings be happy plz :-)
Moon Fargis: have a nice day bert:)
Zen Arado: ok bye Bert
Freud Jungsten: Ciao
Zen Arado: have a good day
Bertram Jacobus: ty ! :-)
Moon Fargis: hmm cars and bugsqueezeing, seems i dontm issed so much ontodays session ;)
Freud Jungsten: lol
Zen Arado: :0
Freud Jungsten: We were talking about poverty earlier.
Zen Arado: amazing the things that come up
Freud Jungsten: And the materializm thought extended to cars.
Zen Arado: poverty and bugs :)
Moon Fargis: ah yes
Moon Fargis: hmmm
Freud Jungsten: Then fuel, then fuel economey, then to motrocycles.... and it went down hill from there.
Moon Fargis: what cars are for men are shoes and handbags for womans
Zen Arado: I had a notecard about unemployment you can have if you want Moon
Freud Jungsten: lol.... I really don't do the handbag think much, but shoes... oh yes... smiles
Moon Fargis: ah thanks zen but im unemploeyd in rl enought already:)
Zen Arado: just delete it :)
Freud Jungsten: I am forunate enough to being to college and have a good part time job.
Zen Arado: I worked full time for 33 years
Zen Arado: long enough :)
Moon Fargis: ahyes true

Career expectations:

Zen Arado: I think people have higher expectations about employment than I ever had
Zen Arado: they expect jobs to be fulfilling
Freud Jungsten: Longer than I have been alive by a decade.
Moon Fargis: well how long you have to work till you can retire in your countrys ?
Zen Arado: I worked to pay my mortgage and eat - anything else was a bonus
Freud Jungsten: Maybe..... I don't just want a job, I want one where I can make a difference.
Zen Arado: it is going up to 67 I think
Moon Fargis: yes same here
Zen Arado: think we all do....
Zen Arado: naturally ....but expectations and desires don't always get fulfilled
Freud Jungsten: I don't know.... I know a few folks that only seem to care about the money.
Zen Arado: good to have that aim though
Moon Fargis: hmm i would prefer no job than a job where i will be unhappy in
Zen Arado: it owuld be great to have a job that you would do even if you didn't get paid...
Freud Jungsten: That would be nice.
Freud Jungsten: But doing things we really don[t want to do is good for us i nsome ways.
Zen Arado: that's ok Moon...but if you had a wife and family and mortgage.....
Freud Jungsten: And society at large.
Zen Arado: and debts...
Moon Fargis: well thats why im single:)
Zen Arado: :)
Moon Fargis: and can afford that opinion :)
Zen Arado: agree wth Freud too
Zen Arado: I have had some really boring jobs when I was young
Freud Jungsten: I mean, if doing what we don't want wernt good for us, then the entire brocholii industry would dry up over night.
Zen Arado: so many peole have such boring jobs
Moon Fargis: :D
Zen Arado: but they have to be done
Freud Jungsten: But your job is what you make of it.
Freud Jungsten: My job is to get sexually harrased by rich idiots...... and answer some phones.
Zen Arado: yes - you do your best - then they promote you to a job that is too difficult for you :)
Freud Jungsten: SO I just do the bits I like very well and enjoying crushing egos on the other..... so it is what you make of it.
Zen Arado: someone said we all reach our level of incompetence
Zen Arado: good philosophy Freud
Freud Jungsten: Well... it at least works for me.
Freud Jungsten: And I do get paid well I have to admit.
Zen Arado: I had a quite well paid ob at the finish
Zen Arado: but I didn't like it much
Zen Arado: maybe I sold out to the system
Zen Arado: but at leats I got a good pension and could retire and do what I wanted
Freud Jungsten: That is something.
Zen Arado: and I am disabled - which narrows the options
Freud Jungsten: I think doing exactly what I wanted would drive me nuts.
Freud Jungsten: And moer importantly drive those around me nuts.
Moon Fargis: oh why?
Freud Jungsten: I think I would need to find a volunteer job or the like if able.
Zen Arado: yes - and how do kknow what you really want to do?
Zen Arado: maybe you let your interests develop and take you into challenging paths
Freud Jungsten: No idea....... lol... right now working on a masters in Biostatistics... so I think I want to do medical reserach.
Zen Arado: life is too short to try everything
Zen Arado: so you compromise and plump for something - you have to
Zen Arado: I used to think I would have liked to have been a university researcher/lecturer
Zen Arado: but I have friends who do that and I see the pressure etc.
Zen Arado: medical research sounds great
Freud Jungsten: If I can get into the right sort of things though.
Zen Arado: not so many people want to do maths nowadays
Zen Arado: there is a shortage of maths teachers in the UK now
Moon Fargis: ah sooryseems rl calls me , have a nice day still :)
Zen Arado: sre Moon
Freud Jungsten: Ok... cai.
Freud Jungsten: ciao
Zen Arado: nice to see you
Freud Jungsten: do na da go hv i
Zen Arado: guess I better go too then
Zen Arado: nice to meet you Freud
Freud Jungsten: Ok take care.
Freud Jungsten: Thanks for the chat.
Zen Arado: bye