The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

In this session we shared reports around Pema's unfolding book, Exploring the Magic of Time, and specifically this week: Reports from 10.29.2010

Eliza Madrigal: Hello Maxine :)
Maxine Walden: hi, Eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Maxine Walden: and Yaku

--BELL--
Pema Pera: Hi Maxine, Yakuzza, Eliza, Bruce!
Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce and Pema :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Pema, Maxine, Yaku, and Eliza.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bruce
Maxine Walden: hi, Bruce
Pema Pera: Eliza is more blue than Bleu :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: you could be one of bleu´s creations today eliza
Maxine Walden: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, in a way, I am :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bleu has inspired me to take many shapes before the next exhibit :)
Pema Pera: talking about the Color :-)
Eliza Madrigal: what color?
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu.
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bleu
Pema Pera: Hi Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: (zooming in to see Eliza)
Pema Pera: We were talking about you (and your color)
Eliza Madrigal zooms back
Pema Pera: and how Eliza today looks like one of your creations :-)
Bleu Oleander: love the blue
Eliza Madrigal: :) me too
Bleu Oleander: flattered that you chose my color :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sharry
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharry :)
Pema Pera: Hi Sharry!
Bleu Oleander: hi Sharry
Yakuzza Lethecus: and Baeric
Pema Pera: Hi Baeric
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Sharry.
Bleu Oleander: hi Baeric
Sharry Ragu: hi Bleu, Pema, Bruce and Eliza :))
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Baeric :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Baeric.
Pema Pera: Welcome back, Baeric and Sharry :)
Sharry Ragu: ty Pema :))
Pema Pera: you joined us a few months ago, I believe?
Sharry Ragu: yes
Maxine Walden: Sharry and Baeric
Sharry Ragu: Maxine :))
Baeric Constantine just waiting for the place to rez
Bruce Mowbray thinks, Oh hopeful one.
Pema Pera: today we're talking about chapter 8 on http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/8._Play_as_Being
Sharry Ragu: thank you
Pema Pera: and the reports that many of us wrote on http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2010%2F%2F10%2F%2F29:_Reports
Pema Pera: would somebody like to post the chat log this week?
Sharry Ragu reads the page
Pema Pera: thank you Vleu!
Pema Pera: *Bleu
Pema Pera: Hi Fef!
Maxine Walden: hi, Fef
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Fef.
Fefonz Quan: Hello Timonauts
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: Reading the reports this week, I was especially touched by Riddle's report -- distinctly lyrical !
Pema Pera: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2010%2f%2f10%2f%2f29%3a_Reports/2010.10.28%3a_Riddle_Sideways
Pema Pera: (temponauts?)
Eliza Madrigal: TY Bleu, and Hi Fef :)
Pema Pera: (no, chrononauts!)
Maxine Walden: chronuts: a newly discovered hard-shelled fruit which aids in the appreciation of time
Eliza Madrigal: loved Riddle's report... written from such a peresonally close and 'present' spot... bringing everyone in
Eliza Madrigal: :) Maxine
Bleu Oleander: :)
Fefonz Quan: Yes, beautiful report Riddle
Pema Pera: and so direct and simple -- making you want to live that way yourself!
Maxine Walden: agree, Riddle, very nice
Pema Pera: and seeing the possibility to actually doing so
Bruce Mowbray: I liked Riddle's, "I have been addressing self as plural for years."
Pema Pera: Hi Zen!
Eliza Madrigal: yes sort of a possibility of taking responsibility for doing so...
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Zen.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Sharry Ragu: Hi Zen :))
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi all
Zen Arado: sorry for lateness
Pema Pera: hi Pumpkin!
Pumpkin Ravenheart: hello
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Pumpkin :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Pumpkin.
Fefonz Quan: Hello pumpkin
Bleu Oleander: Pumpkin :)

--BELL--
Pema Pera: I also liked Maxine's expression, that she was ready to "sigh out the day" :-)
Sharry Ragu waves a hello to Pumpkin
Maxine Walden: :)
Sharry Ragu feels a little like she has walked in to a continuing discussion without understanding fully the topic of discussion...
Sharry Ragu: perhaps I will sit and listen if that is ok?
Baeric Constantine feels much the same
Zen Arado: Hi Sharry :)
Maxine Walden: We all feel like beginners, Sharry and Baeric, in these discussions
Eliza Madrigal: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books
Bleu Oleander: "the most radical way to play is to rise above any roles whatsoever." what would that look like to rise above any roles ... is that possible?
Sharry Ragu: I think so Bleu
Pema Pera: of course, that is fine, Baeric and Sharry -- this is an ongoing discussion. Our regular sessions are at 1 am, 7 am, 1 pm, 7 pm -- they start from scratch. This is a weekly event, starting on Fridays at 6 am.
Bleu Oleander: what would that look like or feel like?
Baeric Constantine: brb - relog
Sharry Ragu: acceptance I think
Eliza Madrigal: :) rest
Pema Pera: you still feel the roles, still play them, but you're no longer stuck in them, no longer determined by them, you are freely playing with them -- that would be one answer :)
Sharry Ragu smiles at Eliza.. yes
Zen Arado: we can't avoid them?
Maxine Walden: and maybe viewing them from a step aside, or a step back, freed from 'being in them'
Pema Pera: and yes, then you can accept the restrictions and rest in the role, appreciating the role too
Sharry Ragu: I think avoidance is not the aim.. to go beyond perhaps?
Bleu Oleander: so is awareness of the roles enabling one to wear the roles lightly?
Pema Pera: hard to avoid playing the role of human, Zen -- unless you're in SL :-)
Eliza Madrigal: in the acceptance perhaps there is more room in the role than there appeared to be
Zen Arado: they have a useful function maybe
Pema Pera nods at Bleu and Eliza
Zen Arado: remembers Sartre's waiter and inauthenticity....
Maxine Walden: say more Zen?
Zen Arado: Sartre criticised a waiter for losing himself in his waiter role
Zen Arado: losing his authentic self
Maxine Walden: ah
Sharry Ragu: not so much blind acceptance.. awareness of your own roles, awareness of the roles of others.. acceptance that they can exist and remembering they are roles.. not rules perhaps
Pema Pera: yes
Fefonz Quan: looks like sarte might lost himself in the philosppher role...
Maxine Walden: nicely said, Sharry
Maxine Walden: :) Fef
Zen Arado: he he Fef
Maxine Walden: yes, when we criticize others, we are often criticizing what we do not like in ourselves
Sharry Ragu: ty :))
Bruce Mowbray: almost always so, Maxine.
Maxine Walden: agree, Bruce
Pema Pera: so true, Maxine . . . knowing that is a key in quickly understanding others around us
Zen Arado: aren't roles a kind of shortcut that helps us make decisions from a certain vantage point?
Baeric Constantine: We focus too often on the deed, perhaps, rather than the person?
Zen Arado: but we get stuck in roles
Sharry Ragu: I think roles limit the amount of functional awareness we have accessible
Baeric Constantine: Should we allow roles to give us that shortcut, Zen?
Eliza Madrigal: and yet deeds are often the doors through which we know the person... or their reflections at least...
Zen Arado: then we have to think 'outsied the box' of a role?
Bleu Oleander: (or become the box, hehe)
Eliza Madrigal: ;-) Bleu
Zen Arado: maybe we need to though or life would overwhem us
Baeric Constantine: Is not the person defines the role as opposed the role defining the person?
Sharry Ragu: I don't think we have to Zen.. perhaps because we can?
Maxine Walden: not get stuck in the role as 'who I am'
Sharry Ragu: you are not your khakis ;)
Zen Arado: 'Mother' is a role
Sharry Ragu: yes
Sharry Ragu: as is friend, lover, child...
Baeric Constantine: defined by the woman
Zen Arado: you don't talk to your kids as a sibling if you are a mother
Fefonz Quan: (what's the meaning of khakis here?)
Eliza Madrigal: ah but mother is a role that is made up of various roles...
Eliza Madrigal: as are they all

--BELL--
Sharry Ragu: quote from the movie fight club.. exploring roles and the self
Zen Arado: motherly roles :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Sharry
Maxine Walden: I am wondering if we focus on the roles, may here too, because there is such uncertainty, maybe fear about trying to get beyond the role, to glimpse that beyond...
Bleu Oleander: it's even interesting how attached we are to our avatar "roles"
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps far less is predefined, than what we add on to things...
Bleu Oleander: beyond every role is another role perhaps?
Maxine Walden: that mummy wrap of various roles perhaps?
Bruce Mowbray: I really have "issues" when people assume things about me: that I am Christian, or conservative, or heterosexual, or pro-American, etc. . . rican
Baeric Constantine: perhaps in some instances, the person and the role are the same... as in the case of mother, perhaps....
Bruce Mowbray: I want to be free of their expectations of me.
Pema Pera: there are soooo many ways of being a mother!
Sharry Ragu: I think a mother role encompasses an array of roles.. nurturer, manager, cleaner, carer, cook.. etc.. it goes on forever! lol
Pema Pera: so many ways to play that role
Pema Pera: or any role really
Baeric Constantine: But Bruce, by doing and saying things, do you not set those expectations, therefore it becomes your responsibility to manage those expectations?
Sharry Ragu nods to Pema
Pema Pera nods back to Sharry :)
Eliza Madrigal has many friends redefinining 'mother' now as their children have gone away to college, etc...
Eliza Madrigal: finding that it means many things... much room
Zen Arado: lost their role?
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps I do set the expectations. . . but not knowingly. . . I spend a lot of energy telling people what I am NOT.
Eliza Madrigal: well, they have to hold it in a different way :)
Eliza Madrigal: 'drop' it open
Sharry Ragu: lost or a need to re-define?
Bleu Oleander: roles seems to imply actor .... is there anyway to be that is genuine, not acting?
Pema Pera: mother as caretaker or mother as investing in a child that can later take care of her . . . . etc
Baeric Constantine: The role of mother never ends while the role of parenting does come to an end
Zen Arado: have a smaller role maybe
Eliza Madrigal: ... think the 'size' doesn't change...
Zen Arado: and many find it hard to relinquish
Sharry Ragu: I think the genuiness may come from the intent with which the role is undertaken ..
Eliza Madrigal: yes, we all need support not to get lost in the woods :)
Pema Pera: perhaps what you want to convey, Bruce, is that you're not *only* that -- not necessarily that you're not those roles
Zen Arado: enjoy the role too much
Pema Pera: practically speaking at least
Baeric Constantine agrees with Sharry
Zen Arado: we use roles as a crutch...to avoid what?
Sharry Ragu: I do not think we use roles as a crutch??
Bleu Oleander: more like a tool?
Eliza Madrigal: roles can be nurturing for oneself as well as others...
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Sharry Ragu: yes! :))
Zen Arado: ok maybe..
Bruce Mowbray: OK, for example: I have a Masters of Divinity degree so people ask me to say a blessing in public gatherings -- assuming that I am Christian. . . or even a theist (neither of which is true).
Sharry Ragu: perhaps it's more about congruency?
Zen Arado: depends how much we want to lose ourselves in them I guess
Sharry Ragu: yes Zen.. I agree
Zen Arado: awkward for you Bruce
Bruce Mowbray thinks he might have "lost himself' in DENYING roles.
Sharry Ragu: LOL @ Bruce :))
Zen Arado: role denier role :)
Maxine Walden: :), Bruce,
Pema Pera: that's a nice example, Bruce -- yet they are responding to "something about you" -- how would you like them to respond instead?
Bruce Mowbray: I am NOT this. I am NOT that.
Bleu Oleander: how do they know you have a Master of Dininity Bruce? perhaps it's how you present yourself to them
Zen Arado: neti neti..?
Bruce Mowbray: I'd rather they ask someone else to give their blessings.
Pema Pera: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: yeah, neti neti is cool.
Bruce Mowbray: In a tiny rural community, folks know.
Bruce Mowbray: or think that they know.
Baeric Constantine: PErhaps then, one needs to ask, why take the master of divinity if you wish not to exercise it?
Fefonz Quan: maybe we are a combination of the roles we play, rather than some 'solid hidden self' that is more 'real' than all fo the roles?
Bruce Mowbray: roles are hard to break out of.
Sharry Ragu: so Bruce, is it possible to request that they ask someone else??
Bruce Mowbray: sure -- That's exactly what i do.
Sharry Ragu: :))
Bruce Mowbray: For me, it's a question of taking the role literally. . .
Eliza Madrigal: when we drop everything we can play anything freely... like a pallate cleanser... can enjoy the taste if refresh in between.... keeping in between
Bruce Mowbray: I prefer to take NOTHING literally.
Bleu Oleander: it's often how we present ourselves that directs how others treat us
Sharry Ragu: I don't think any fixation on roles is the purpose.. I think to become fluid to undertake different roles where necessary might be key here?
Fefonz Quan nods to Bleu
Baeric Constantine: Why then state you have the degree if you do not want to give a blessing from which no harm can come?
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Sharry. . . "fluid" means "not literal" for me.
Pema Pera: hey, Adams, yeah !!!
Sharry Ragu: ahh.. ok thanks :))
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adams :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Adams :)
Fefonz Quan: Hi Adams
Zen Arado: if I go to a Christian funeral I feel forced to sing hymns that also make me take the role of a Christian
Maxine Walden: hi, Adams
Zen Arado: so we can be forced to adopt roles same as Bruce?
Zen Arado: Hi Adams :)
Sharry Ragu: you could perhaps reframe that Zen, and do it to honour their preferred expression?
Pema Pera: Lovely images, Adams, bicycling through fog tunnels!
Eliza Madrigal: if one isn't afraid of getting stuck, they can immerse and appreciate others' joys Zen?
Adams Rubble: Hello everyone, please don't let me interrupt
Bleu Oleander: I think genuine roles come from the heart .... sometimes we take roles superficially to relate in society
Zen Arado: ok point takedn Sharry...but I feel like a hypocrite a bit
Baeric Constantine: Then why go and partake, Zen? You have freedom of choice not to attend....but when you choose to attend then you will become bound by the rules regulations traditions ceremonies of place you attend.. it is called acquis communnitaire
Maxine Walden: we may be in fog tunnels of a sort here, Adams, feeling roles imposed, or roles we may feel stuck in
Bleu Oleander: assume some roles to smooth the bumps in a way
Sharry Ragu: yes Bleu.. as I stated earlier, I think it needs congruency.. between the intent/heart/role...

--BELL--
Zen Arado: but I want to honour the person who died - not their religion..
Sharry Ragu: perhaps it is respectful rather than hypocrytical Zen?
Baeric Constantine: How can you honour them if that person is Christian and you refuse to acknowledge that?
Zen Arado: some things to ponder here
Maxine Walden: seems to me if we have self respect in the 'role' we find ourself in we will not feel much conflict, but if we feel that role imposed, or feel stuck in it ourselves then we may rankle
Pema Pera: perhaps when singing "God" you can direct your attention to "Tao" or "Buddhist suchness", Zen?
Zen Arado: often the person involved never went near a church
Bruce Mowbray: Christmas is coming -- Let's HIDE!
Zen Arado: the hymns are often quite specific about 'Jesus is mine; etc
Eliza Madrigal: yes we can feel imprisoned by others' expections not realizing we gave them the bars and the tools to close us in with
Eliza Madrigal: hehe Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Good point, Eliza.
Pema Pera: Well, Jesus as God's son can be seen as the Nirmanakaya dimension of reality, Zen
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: hm...ok Pema
Maxine Walden: and we can project that imprisoning onto others, saying 'they are imprisoning me in this role, when really we are the imprisoners ourselves
Pema Pera: form and emptiness -- emptiness appearing in flesh and blood
Bleu Oleander: celebrate the community instead of the specific religion
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Pema -- and also the embodiment of Compassion, Equanimity, etc.
Eliza Madrigal: revelation knowledge
Sharry Ragu: Baeric, I think if you feel that strongly about the religion then it is an indication that you are stuck in a 'role'.. to move beyond that you can acknowledge, accept and honour that persons expression.. I think that removes the hypocrisy ?
Zen Arado: might be stuck in my Buddhist role
Eliza Madrigal: yes Maxine... indeed
Bruce Mowbray considers Sharry's point seriously.
Adams Rubble: I would think if we attend a funeral we are there to provide some comfort to those who need it.
Bleu Oleander: agree Adams
Zen Arado: ok but lots of roles at funerals
Bruce Mowbray: lots of roles in EVERY ritual.
Zen Arado: maybe ust to show respect
Bleu Oleander: giving comfort is a nice role to assume
Baeric Constantine: Should someone come to my funeral that does not want to partake of who I am at that funeral, then I would rather that one not come, as to come and not partake would be an insult, and not an not an honouring irrespective of my lifestyle (note - not a religion)
Zen Arado: you may not be all that close to person
Pema Pera: there is no simple answer, we all have to improvise in practice, like finding ourselves in the middle of a play and suddenly having some of the lines changed around us -- a real challenge; I very much appreciate all of us thinking through so deeply what is at stake here!
Eliza Madrigal: to be respect... then it shows naturally
Pema Pera: Hi Dave!
Zen Arado: should I expect people to perform Zen chants at my funeral?
Zen Arado: this is a real question for me
Adams Rubble: If I go to your funeral Zen, i will chant away :)
Eliza Madrigal: they will have to make that decision for themselves Zen...
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Me too :)
Bruce Mowbray doesn't plan to be there for his funeral - therefore doesn't care what they do.
Pema Pera: you could explicitly leave instructions "for those who want to sing", Zen!
Pema Pera: that way everybody is free
Eliza Madrigal: heheh Bruce
Zen Arado: I have many Christian friends
Zen Arado: can imagine their perplexity :)
Bleu Oleander: don't have a funeral
Bleu Oleander: have a party
Pema Pera: yes, Bruce, but at the same time I'm sure you care about them, even though you don't care about what they do :-)
Eliza Madrigal: these things are so difficult... funerals weddings, etc.... people can make them 'political' but they 'aren't' on their own perhaps
Zen Arado: best idea so far Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Pema Pera: nice, Bleu!
Sharry Ragu: so perhaps your Christian friends are utilising a Christian role Zen?
Bruce Mowbray thinks he'd be there for the party.
Bleu Oleander: celebrate a life well lived with friends
Zen Arado: oh yes - and a very narrow one at that Sharry
Fefonz Quan: yse, I second that Bleu
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zen Arado: one or two of them anyway
Sharry Ragu: sounds like their problem to me Zen ;)
Pema Pera: I'll have to leave a wee bit early, I'm afraid -- the cafe I'm in is closing now :(
Eliza Madrigal: anyone attending my funeral will prob learn a lot and leave very confused
Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
Bleu Oleander: bye and thank you Pema :)
Bruce Mowbray: Be well, Pema. THANKS!
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema :)
Sharry Ragu: thanks Pema, have a lovely day :))
Zen Arado: bye Pema and thanks
Fefonz Quan: bye Pema1
Pema Pera: bye everybody, thank you all so much for such a thoughtful discussion!
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Aph!
Pema Pera: hello and goodbye, Aph!
Baeric Constantine: Go well Perma
Zen Arado: Hello Aphro :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Aph :)
Zen Arado: good trick :)
Fefonz Quan: HI Aphro
Adams Rubble: Hello Aphrodite
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aph :)
Fefonz Quan: it's good you are so thin and light ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Eliza Madrigal: at my funeral people will be asking 'who is eliza?"
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: if they don't know they should!
Eliza Madrigal: my kids will have to answer.. "my mom"...
Zen Arado: ever seen a SL funeral?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: They's be saing. There lies the famous Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I've attended a candlelight ceremony
Fefonz Quan: nope
Sharry Ragu: hmm... perhaps they may think Eliza was full of surprises?? lol
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I know they have weddings in Sl -- Do they also have funerals?
Eliza Madrigal: the ceremony was beautiful... was for comfort
Baeric Constantine: being rather slow here, why would someone attend an SL funeral?
Fefonz Quan: just the body lies, as i seee it
Zen Arado: the younger you are the bigger the funeral in my experience
Bleu Oleander: it's a memorial service .... actually very moving
Sharry Ragu: unfortunately the child does not fulfil their role perhaps??
Baeric Constantine does not want a big funeral, but ceratinly wants a party at it
Zen Arado: well - you can have a lot of friends here in SL too who would want to honour your death some way I think
Bruce Mowbray: balloons! ice cream! dancing!
Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, av is a kind of role... and a role is sort of a container full of distinct relationships
Fefonz Quan: I once was in a party for someone that passed away
Baeric Constantine: thank you Zen :)
Bleu Oleander: big party with dancing, music and great food :)
Bruce Mowbray: me too, Fef.
Aphrodite Macbain: Celebration of life
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes
Bleu Oleander: oh yes, and lots of "art"
Aphrodite Macbain: Today I'm going to celebrate
Zen Arado: some of us aren't so young either :)
Fefonz Quan: there was dancing, and also speaking, it was moving, sad, and also warm and fulfilling in a way
Baeric Constantine: Precisely... mourning is fine, I understand that, but I want there to be celebration too.
Eliza Madrigal: lovely, Fef
Sharry Ragu: I was young once :D

--BELL--
Baeric Constantine: Young as you desire to be, Zen. It is certainly not age related
Maxine Walden: I should go, see you all next time
Fefonz Quan: and the woman that was gone was quite young though
Zen Arado: like an Irish wake maybe
Maxine Walden: bye for now
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Maxine, thanks
Zen Arado: bye Maxine
Adams Rubble: bye Maxine :)
Bleu Oleander: bye Maxine :)
Sharry Ragu: take care Maxine, thank you :))
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Maxine
Baeric Constantine: bye
Baeric Constantine: Bye Maxine
Fefonz Quan: bye Maxine,
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Maine.
Bruce Mowbray: Maxine, sry.
Bleu Oleander: we'll switch to the regular session now ....