2010.10.22 07:00 - It Seems Too Easy

The Guardian for this meeting which follows Time Session, was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza, joined by Bleu, Freud, Pema, Zen, Alfred, druth, Eos, and Ewan. 

Freud Jungsten: Normally it takes me a bit longer to make people leave a SIM... guess I am improving my annoyance skills... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: hha Freud. Fridays are special. We have an early session before the regularly scheduled one :)
Freud Jungsten: OH... way to shatter my illusion... grins
Freud Jungsten: I did not know that though.
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, sorry.... :)
Eliza Madrigal: Fantastic session this morning...
Freud Jungsten: What was the topic?
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm... Time, Being, Play :)
Eliza Madrigal: Actually... let me give you a link to the book Pema has been writing....

(Added later: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books )

Freud Jungsten: I have been in on a couple of the time talks...

Freud Jungsten: Was not really able to put them together though until last nights session chatting with Wol.

Eliza Madrigal: When I look at the list of time sessions I'm very surprised we've been meeting this many weeks... feels bran new
Bleu Oleander: yes, amazing how time flys :)
Eliza Madrigal: (taking a few minutes for my browser to bring up the link, but any second...)
Pema Pera: indeed!
Eliza Madrigal: unless one is waiting on a browser... hah
Zen Arado: I can't get pab site either
Pema Pera: Just to think that we have nine chapters already, meaning 18 weeks
Pema Pera: yes, for me too the wiki is stuck -- again

Pema Pera: seems to happy often these days . . .

Alfred Kelberry: pema, how is your theory... um, i'm atually not sure how to call it. what do you call it? idea, concept? well, anyway... do i understand correctly, that (put it simply) it's a model of our interaction with the world in a mindful manner that can be explained in scientific terms?

Pema Pera: I was trying to upload chapter 8
Eliza Madrigal: I'll send a long a link when it unsticks Freud :)
Pema Pera: I would put it more simply, Alfred, more like an attempt to get in touch with what is
Eliza Madrigal: TY
Bleu Oleander: seems language is limiting
Freud Jungsten: wa-do
Alfred Kelberry: it's more succinct, but not simpler :)
Pema Pera: I think it's simpler
Pema Pera: "what is" sounds pretty simple :-)
Alfred Kelberry: sounds yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: simple in this sense is perhaps concentrated....
Freud Jungsten: What theory is this?
Bleu Oleander: simple words .... challenging concept perhaps
Freud Jungsten: Sorry I missed that bit.
Zen Arado: but we don't ike 'what is' so we make it complicated :)

Alfred Kelberry: pema, maybe you should give this concept a name... wait, is it "play as being"? :)

Bleu Oleander: like is subjective
Eliza Madrigal doing a wiki dance...
Zen Arado: guess I am subjective
Pema Pera: :-)
Alfred Kelberry: i think this line would look good on the cover of your time book: an attempt to get in touch with what is :)
Bleu Oleander: you wouldn't be the first :)
Zen Arado: or I think I am :)

Pema Pera: well, you can have a look at

http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/8._Play_as_Being for a new angle of "Play as

Being" -- if ever the wiki gets unfrozen again
Pema Pera: I've already sent a report to Calvino and Fael, they may be able to do something
Alfred Kelberry: oh, it worked fine 10 minutes ago
Alfred Kelberry: i flipped the pages
Pema Pera: yes, that's when it got stuck
Eliza Madrigal: they are pretty quick about that
Alfred Kelberry: maybe wiki ate up all the memory :)
Eliza Madrigal: many of us thumbing through the wiki at the same time
Pema Pera: hahaha
Alfred Kelberry: pema, are all the wikis moved already?
Eliza Madrigal: ongoing process as far as I can tell Alf...
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, wiki seems to be down. maybe we should ping fael.
Eliza Madrigal: I am still going over this idea... 'being' is too simple for our minds ... so have to 'play as being'
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, ok. fael is doing a great job with it.

Zen Arado: the nonduality teachers say you don't have to do anything - you are here already...
Pema Pera: I pinged Fael and Calvino already, Alfred
Freud Jungsten: What does that mean Zen?
Zen Arado: I was advised to stop meditating
Pema Pera: and I think Fael is in the middle of moving the last wikis
Eliza Madrigal: Zen, interesting...

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: heh, when i first came across this name, and about that time i saw the lion av (forgot the name) at the fireplace in kira cafe. i thought to myself, it must has something to do with beings like animals :)
Zen Arado: if you search for reality it takes you farther away..
Eliza Madrigal: not meditating for a time is still meditating...
Alfred Kelberry: oh, it was 3d
Alfred Kelberry: i think
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: I don't know what it means Freud
Freud Jungsten: lol... OK.
Pema Pera: that may be bad advise, Zen . . . . it all depends; I don't trust any across-the-board advice -- each person has different ways to go deeper

Pema Pera: (was waiting for the bell :-)
Zen Arado: sorry - forgot
Freud Jungsten: I sometimes don't understand as the converstions here tend to come to the limits of my English.
Bleu Oleander: deeper is an interesting word to think about
Eliza Madrigal: :) Mine too Freud
Alfred Kelberry: pema, how is it waiting for the bell when you already have text typed in? anxious to press enter? :)
Zen Arado: agree Pema
Pema Pera: try it, Alfred!
Freud Jungsten: If I started typing before the bell, I go ahead and send it.
Pema Pera: meanwhile, I'll try to get some sleep -- approaching midnight here in Tokyo
Alfred Kelberry: i sometimes feel that way and try to let other thoughts arise then :)
Zen Arado: ok thanks Pema :)
Pema Pera: good seeing you all here again!
Eliza Madrigal: Night Pema :) Sleep well and can't wait to read the next chapter!
Freud Jungsten: Take care.
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye pema
Zen Arado: nite Pema
Bleu Oleander: bye Pema
Alfred Kelberry: night, pema
Pema Pera: :-)
Freud Jungsten: do-na-da-go-hv-i
Pema Pera: bfn
Alfred Kelberry: how are your legs, eliza? :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think it is interesting to see one's mind not meditating, when one is used to doing so....
Eliza Madrigal: almost a test.. to see what has become the default
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Zen Arado: the idea is that in meditation you are trying to get somewhere
Freud Jungsten: Where though?
Zen Arado: even in a subtle way
Zen Arado: to enlightenment ?
Freud Jungsten: OK.
Zen Arado: or why do we do it?
Eliza Madrigal: subtle ideas of gain
Eliza Madrigal: but that wasn't an answer to your question zen
Zen Arado: even if you say you are attaining non -attaining

Alfred Kelberry: zen, i don't use it for enlightment :)
Zen Arado: but can we say we have no reason for doing it?
Alfred Kelberry: as i'm quite sure i'm not going to get there anytime soon :)
Eliza Madrigal: well, enlightenment as an end in itself doesn't make sense....
Bleu Oleander: to me either
Zen Arado: and it doesn't exist really...

Alfred Kelberry: i do it to listen to my mind
Alfred Kelberry: see myself in the moment
Zen Arado: but that just pushes it further away Alf - why do you listen to your mind?
Alfred Kelberry: part of relaxation too
Eliza Madrigal: many benefits

Zen Arado: it is like we cover up something we all have already
Alfred Kelberry: well, listen is a general term. i mean, observe.
Zen Arado: so then you get an idea of a watcher....
Alfred Kelberry: and it's not pushing anything. thoughts are always there. appear and vanish.

Zen Arado: Hi Eos
Bleu Oleander: hi Eos
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi eos
Eos Amaterasu: Hi gang!
Eliza Madrigal: nice to see you...
Freud Jungsten: si yo
Alfred Kelberry: eos :)
Alfred Kelberry: canon
Zen Arado: we're meditating om meditation
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: if I could type that is :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
Zen Arado: bye Yaku :)
Bleu Oleander: bye Yaku
Freud Jungsten: I think a lot of folks meditate in their own ways.
Eos Amaterasu: bye Y
Freud Jungsten: Some listen to music... I run.
Eliza Madrigal: yes Freud :)
Freud Jungsten: Some pray.
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Freud Jungsten: Or a combinating of those things.
Zen Arado: yes running can be meditation I think

Alfred Kelberry: zen, buddhism says about being mindful, not mindless :) you don't strip away everything and isolate yourself.

Freud Jungsten: Especially when the endorphins kick in ... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: anything is, in some sense... seems to be some of what pema's chater suggests too....
Zen Arado: I'm only giving arguments nondualiists use Alf - doesn't mean I go along with them :)
Eliza Madrigal: even when we don't recognize it as such
Alfred Kelberry: zen, um... sorry, i missed the non-duality part :)
Zen Arado: I like to stay open to all disciplines
Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean that formal meditation doesn't help to develop a kind of stability to allow defenses down?
Freud Jungsten: Taking the time to at least inventory if not spring clean our mind and soul is probably a good thing.. to an extent.
Zen Arado: np Alf :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, it's a good stance
Alfred Kelberry: i try to myself :)
Alfred Kelberry: i say try, cause some fields... well, i feel uneasy about
Zen Arado: you can use meditation as a kind of escape too I think
Freud Jungsten: But escape can be theraputic.

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: um... i think escape is not the best way to describe it
Freud Jungsten: OK... time for my next class... ciao all
Eliza Madrigal: bye Freud, thanks for joining us
Zen Arado: bye Freud
Zen Arado: yes - like the stability bit Eliza
Alfred Kelberry: *thinks about "escape" in the meditation context*
Zen Arado: use it to escape thinking about problems?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe we worry too much about correct ways to do things...
Zen Arado: but that isn't good meditation
Eliza Madrigal: intent matters
Zen Arado: yes that too
Eliza Madrigal: and there seems a self-correcting quality to that?
Zen Arado: 'just sit' as they say in zen
Alfred Kelberry: oh, yes. we sure do, eliza.
Alfred Kelberry: social conformity every single moment :)

Eliza Madrigal: as a side issue...
Eliza Madrigal: no one has noticed my tag today :)

Alfred Kelberry: ha! :)
Zen Arado: playing as?
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Bleu Oleander: I did Eliza .... smiled
Zen Arado: nice
Eliza Madrigal: ty :))

Eos Amaterasu: How does it feel to Play as Eliza?
Alfred Kelberry: eliza being herself :)
Eliza Madrigal: Eliza is pretty happy today... feels inspired
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Eos Amaterasu: wind going through her cells?
Eliza Madrigal: whoosh
Alfred Kelberry: it's good to hear... and in fact, i can sense bits of your inpiration in me :)
Eliza Madrigal: inspiration bits... heheh
Eos Amaterasu: mirror cells getting inspired....
Alfred Kelberry: yes, it's like when you smile, it makes people feel better around... a bit maybe :)
Eos Amaterasu: retweet the inspiration
Alfred Kelberry: eos :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes... sharing... resting under an open sky together
Eliza Madrigal: but do find it difficult to write 'about' that contentment...
Eliza Madrigal: there is nothing 'about' about it...
Eos Amaterasu: enuf to write 'from' it
Bleu Oleander: words can restrict somehow
Alfred Kelberry: hmm... i feel more comfy now with a smaller group than earlier
Eliza Madrigal: Ah :::beams::: yes.. from
Alfred Kelberry: just noticed that

Eliza Madrigal: yes I guess that's how your photo hit home, Blue...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth, nice to see you
druth Vlodovic: ty :)
Bleu Oleander: a picture is worth a thousand words
Zen Arado: hi Druth :)
Alfred Kelberry: bleu, a picture is restricted by the frame :)
Eos Amaterasu: it might be like that quality of sadness and space behind Mozart's music: it's the music that speaks, the silence that's heard
Eliza Madrigal: the music frames or 'presents' the silence....
Bleu Oleander: and the photographer
Eos Amaterasu puts hands up to make a frame
Alfred Kelberry: eos canon
Eos Amaterasu: :-) :-)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zen Arado: I have one !
Eliza Madrigal: Kanon :)
Eos Amaterasu: indeed, Alfred
druth Vlodovic: ever "frame" a piece of rl?
Zen Arado: Eos 330 D
Zen Arado: 300 D
Alfred Kelberry: oh, film :)
Eliza Madrigal: Druth, like a leaf one picks up on a walk?
Zen Arado: no digital slr
Alfred Kelberry: um... not this one
Eliza Madrigal: a reminder of a taste of a moment...
Alfred Kelberry: eliza :)
Zen Arado: wondered why Eos's name was familiar :)
druth Vlodovic: just pick a spot and imagine it in a frame, separated from everything else in the world, no connections or mening, just itself
Zen Arado: think they call it 'Rebel' in the US

Eos Amaterasu: The 'Diggers' in San Francisco, ran a soup kitchen, had a wooden 'frame of reference' you were invited towalk through :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: then we were all in the same frame of reference :-)

Bleu Oleander: have to go all .... take care:)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :) You too
Eos Amaterasu: bye Bleu
Zen Arado: bye Bleu
Alfred Kelberry: zen, americans don't like math, so 300d isn't good :)
Bleu Oleander: bye
Alfred Kelberry: cosmic bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
druth Vlodovic: bye bleu

Eliza Madrigal: zen , will you keep us updated on your exploration of meditation/non-meditation?
Zen Arado: sure
Alfred Kelberry: wiki is up, btw
Zen Arado: you can come to Urban Guru Cafe and ask the guy yourself :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: :) Avastu is neat to speak with, yes... I think there is a context here though, too...
Zen Arado: they have meetings 6am Sundays
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, brb (apologies)
Zen Arado: a guy called Jason something
Zen Arado: JasonSwanson Ackmann
Zen Arado: thing I find about non duality teaching -

it seems too easy

Eos Amaterasu: like Mozart
Eos Amaterasu: "to easy for children, too difficult for artists"

Zen Arado: I seem to prefer meditating for 3o years

Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: back :)
Eliza Madrigal: haha Zen
Eos Amaterasu: what else 'ya gonna do :-)?
Zen Arado: but maybe that is our conditioning
Zen Arado: you have to work and toil to get anywhere in this life...
Eos Amaterasu: breathe in, breathe out
druth Vlodovic: "Things are worth only what you put into them." :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: and I know I am breathing in and I know I am breathing out as TNK would say...
Alfred Kelberry: zen 30 years of meditation experience?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe our scope is too small... 'this life'....
Eliza Madrigal: these 90 or so years...
Zen Arado: not me Alf
Eos Amaterasu: "30 years of schooling and they put you on the dayshift, look out kid" - Dylan
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: but zen teachers tell you to go away and meditate for 10 years...
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: so many teachers!
Alfred Kelberry: so many years!
Zen Arado: yes Too many Eliza
Zen Arado: I am thnking

druth Vlodovic: I remember a teacher walking us through a meditation once in high school
Eliza Madrigal: how did you feel about that?
Zen Arado: walking meditation?
Eos Amaterasu: one of the delights at Stuttgart was talking meditation
druth Vlodovic: it was nice, kind of freaky, a lot of people got pretty upset about it lol, "He is teaching mysticism."
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes unfamiliar things can take on scary faces for people...
Zen Arado: think I woud be able to do 'talking meditation' :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, many people has this connection with meditation
Eliza Madrigal: Oh! talking meditation! yes!!
Alfred Kelberry: in this case you talk about "relaxation" :)
Eos Amaterasu: chatting meditation
Zen Arado: do a lot of that
Eliza Madrigal: meditation would be the stance and 'whatever is happening or seems to be happening' would be none other than that :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)

druth Vlodovic: it was nice actually, we imagined we were a drop of water going through the water cycle, but instead of imagining it he imagined it for us and we followed along
Eliza Madrigal: druth, I love that!
Alfred Kelberry: nice
Zen Arado: yes
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Zen Arado: being the H2O
Zen Arado: as it changes form
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: lots of inspiring bits to choose from for log titles today :) Am deeply appreciative
Eos Amaterasu: that's really what PaB exercises or sayings or sallies are like
Alfred Kelberry: it's challenging to walk a bunch of teens through meditation :)
Eos Amaterasu: directed playful imaginations
Eliza Madrigal: :)

druth Vlodovic: it's hard to give up control, at least when you're not being forcibly directed

Zen Arado: maybe teens are more open though
Eliza Madrigal: yes, there is directing vs nudging or helping along :)
Eos Amaterasu: smells like teen inspiration
Zen Arado: adults get so set in their ways
Alfred Kelberry: zen, um...
Zen Arado: us older adults...
Alfred Kelberry: teens get pretty set in their school way as well
Eos Amaterasu: Will depart with the bell, thnx & bye, everyone
Zen Arado: except me of course :)
druth Vlodovic: bye eos
Zen Arado: bye Eos

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: bye eos, rare treat to have you at a 7am :)
Alfred Kelberry: zen, actually...
Eliza Madrigal: bye
druth Vlodovic: zen is the heart of humility
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: :)
Alfred Kelberry: you reminded me of an open mind example that i heard. i find it so striking :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ewan :)
Zen Arado: Hi Ewan
druth Vlodovic: we're busy ignoring the bell right now :)
Zen Arado: yes Alf?
Ewan Bonham: Hi Folks....I know I am very late..:)
Zen Arado: hit me with it :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes Ewan... others may stay but I must get going...
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to miss you

Alfred Kelberry: "Imagine a little baby on a plane who looks up over the seat and stares :) Watching the passengers with occasional smile or giggle. There's no presupposition or judgment

“just sheer experience of being in the moment"

Eliza Madrigal: Oh! sweet example Alfred :))

Ewan Bonham: Well, will catch you later, Eliza,,,:)
Alfred Kelberry: druth, good note about the bell... sorry :)
Zen Arado: ah yes - that's before 18 mths or so
Zen Arado: bye Eliza
druth Vlodovic: yes, it's oddly captivating to see a baby staring, not even reflecting what they see, just looking
Eliza Madrigal: yes... apologies to bell and those who wished to observe it...
Eliza Madrigal: Be well and Happy :)
Zen Arado: you too
druth Vlodovic: bye eliza, I'm sure the bell will forgive you :)
Zen Arado: babies are pure awareness
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: i try and put myself in baby's place... um, it's hard :)
Zen Arado: but we instil a sense of identity into them
Zen Arado: oh yes Alf - that's the 'enlightened' state in a sense
Ewan Bonham: A baby is using a part of her mind that is still in all of us...
Alfred Kelberry: oh, ewan :)
Zen Arado: if we can do that and retain our intelligence somehow...
Ewan Bonham: In some ways it is easier for her to be in touch with present moment innocence than it is for me..:)
Alfred Kelberry: buddhism says that our mind at any moment has everything it needs
Zen Arado: yes - we have put so many veils over reality
Ewan Bonham: I admire what i see in babes and strive to sink into that level of perception..:)
Zen Arado: goo goo :)
druth Vlodovic: lol, babies love to have people around, perhaps we imbue things with meaning so we are never alone
Alfred Kelberry: ah, on this lovely note i have to go :)
Zen Arado: I better go too :)
Alfred Kelberry: interesting questions :)
druth Vlodovic: ah, farewell alfred
Zen Arado: bye all
druth Vlodovic: and zen :)
Alfred Kelberry: thank you all for the company
Ewan Bonham: Bye Zen..:)
druth Vlodovic: they forgot to turn off the recoder...
druth Vlodovic: want to see what is in the gallery?
Ewan Bonham: Oh , sure...thanks for the invite..:)
druth Vlodovic: np :)