2010.10.07 13:00 - Can we trust time?

The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

greetings

Barcalona Rhapsody: nice to see you back again
Bruce Mowbray: Good to see you too, Barca.
Barcalona Rhapsody: how was /is your day ?
Bruce Mowbray: I have had a simply wonderful day, thank you.
Bruce Mowbray: I've just returned from a long hike with my dog Bear.
Lia Rikugun: hello good evening
Barcalona Rhapsody: hello lia
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Lia!
Lia Rikugun: hello Bruce! hello Barcalona!
Lia Rikugun: :)
Qt Core: Hi all
Lia Rikugun: hello Qt
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Qt!
Barcalona Rhapsody: hello Qt
Lia Rikugun: what could be a good topic to talk about?

homework assignment for the time workshop > "can I or do I trust time??" as Bruce questions

Bruce Mowbray: Well, I am trying to put into words my homeworks assignment for tomorrow's Time Sessions session.
Lia Rikugun: oh yes tell us
Barcalona Rhapsody: interesting
Lia Rikugun: what is the assignment agaoin?
Bruce Mowbray waits to hear from Barca.
Lia Rikugun: presence in time?
Qt Core: listens
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it is appreciating the presence of appearances in Time.
Barcalona Rhapsody: i thought of friendship as a theme
Bruce Mowbray: (or rather, BY time.)
Bruce Mowbray: Anyway, the whole issue of TRUST is coming up,.
Barcalona Rhapsody: and Qt ?
Lia Rikugun: trust in friendship bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Can I -- or DO I -- trust time....?
Qt Core: qt listens
Barcalona Rhapsody: ok
Bruce Mowbray: Do I trust the processes....?
Lia Rikugun: in what sense trust time?
Bruce Mowbray: that time presents?
Bruce Mowbray thinks: This topic might be FARRRRRR too heavy!
Barcalona Rhapsody: can we listen in friendship trusting time ?
Lia Rikugun: i dont understand the question: can we trust in time?
Lia Rikugun: if what is presented is really real?
Lia Rikugun: or if there is no time?
Bruce Mowbray: No,----- Can we trust what Time presents?
Barcalona Rhapsody: yes that you trust that things go right unless any time slot
Bruce Mowbray: Can we trust the processes that we observe - that Time presents....?
Barcalona Rhapsody: no matter how long it will last
Barcalona Rhapsody: that you dont hurry
Bruce Mowbray: Like aging, or like seasonal change, or like the cycles of day and night.....?
Barcalona Rhapsody: sure
Bruce Mowbray: (and, of course, other things -- ALL other things -- that Time presents us.
Barcalona Rhapsody: in natural pace
Lia Rikugun: if we can trust the cykes of the day: like at 10pm it is going to be dark?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, that's pretty easy.
Barcalona Rhapsody: evrything has its one optimal timing
Bruce Mowbray: Ha ha.
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmm. . . There is a wonderful idea from Barca....
Bruce Mowbray is thinking.
Lia Rikugun: i still try to understand the question, sorry for asking so much :)
Barcalona Rhapsody: what so funny ?
Bruce Mowbray: OK, Lia. Here it is:
Barcalona Rhapsody: bruce ?
Bruce Mowbray: The Time Sessions class is addressing the matter of Time -- and suggesting that it is Time that presents us with appearances.
Bruce Mowbray: We are being asked to appreciate these appearances....
Bruce Mowbray: so, I am running [smack DAB] into the "issue" of whether in appreciateing these appearances, I can TRUST what time is presenting.
Barcalona Rhapsody: well i wouldnt understand such a question
Barcalona Rhapsody: timeless trust
Barcalona Rhapsody: unconditional surrender
Lia Rikugun: so in a way that there is something else behind?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes. . .
Barcalona Rhapsody: ok
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it does seem to involve a sort of unconditional surrender....
Barcalona Rhapsody: what could be behind ?
Lia Rikugun: i dont know
Lia Rikugun: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Trusting Tao -- if that works.
Barcalona Rhapsody: unless whats behind it
Barcalona Rhapsody: trusting that nature is good
Lia Rikugun: so unconditional surrender because i cannot control time and its appearances?
--BELL--
Barcalona Rhapsody: sure
Barcalona Rhapsody: well i have to go its my time for going to sleep
Barcalona Rhapsody: bye thnx
Bruce Mowbray: OK, Barca. Thank you and be well and happy!
Lia Rikugun: good night
Qt Core: bye Barca

Wol joins us, and we still try to define what "trust" means in the context of time

Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Wol!
Qt Core: hi Wol
Lia Rikugun: hey Wol
Wol Euler: hello lia, qt, bruce
Lia Rikugun: we are talking about time and appreances and if you can trust time
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Wol -- since you're using Phoenix. . . WHY does the chat log put things into parenthesis?
Lia Rikugun: we are still defining the question that lies behind .. :)
Wol Euler: O.O
Wol Euler: where? what?
Bruce Mowbray: OOOOO!
Wol Euler: do you mean that there are extraneous parentheses in the chatlog file on my hard disk?
Lia Rikugun: "Can we trust what Time presents?"
Bruce Mowbray: When Ityped, "Hello, Wol" the chat log (on my computer) said that -- then in parenthises, it said "Hello, Wool!" -- which is NOT what I typed.
Wol Euler: ah! it is translating for you :)
Bruce Mowbray: Do I have a little man in my Phoenix viewer with a mind of his own?
Wol Euler: turn off "translate chat"
Bruce Mowbray: Ohhhh! Thanks you!!!!
Wol Euler: that should get rid of it, yes?
Bruce Mowbray: I just turned it off. Now I can trust time better!
Lia Rikugun: :)
Wol Euler: what does "trust" mean in this context?
Lia Rikugun: hehe
Lia Rikugun: my question...
Bruce Mowbray: wonderful question, Wol.
Bruce Mowbray: and Lia.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, suppose you have some anxiety about the future....
Wol Euler: easy to suppose :)
Bruce Mowbray: and suppose you see that nothing in your behavior can change "the future...."
Bruce Mowbray: I mean, it is going to come....
Wol Euler: well, wait a moment
Wol Euler: I cannot stop now turning into future, that is true
Wol Euler: but I can *always* change the future.
Bruce Mowbray: So. . . (and partly this requires some past sessions with the Time group). . . .
Wol Euler: I can get up and to to Brazil and live on the beach
Wol Euler: I can kill myself.
Bruce Mowbray: but - anyway - suppose that we think of Time as presenting the future to us. . .
Wol Euler: I can log off and read a book
Wol Euler: (sorry, do continue)
Bruce Mowbray: as appearances in the present.
Bruce Mowbray: OK. This questions is very similar to one that Barca just asked (he was here before you, Wol) - and also one that Einstein asked::::
Bruce Mowbray: names;y, is the universe "friendly"?
Wol Euler: mu.

"Is Time friendly?"

Bruce Mowbray: So, I am asking, Is Time friendly -- can we trust it?
Wol Euler: I still don't know what the question means, sorry to say :)
Bruce Mowbray: Mu is very zenny but not sufficient for my anxiety -- sorry.
Wol Euler: heheheh
Wol Euler: okay.
Bruce Mowbray: Can we trust Time?
Wol Euler: if by friendly you mean "is Time aware of us and does it wish us well?"
Bruce Mowbray sits on hands and listens to the wisdom of the group.
Lia Rikugun: but does time have a purpose a specific idea in mind?
Qt Core: and the answer is no, universe/time/nature isn't frieldly, is just ignorant, in the sense that it does not even notice you
Wol Euler: I have the feeling that I haven't done my homework :)
Wol Euler: yes, qt
Bruce Mowbray: So, Qt, the cosmos (assuming Time is part of that) is indifferent to us?
Qt Core: at least this is the answer /tought i have especially when the outside wheather is opposite of the inside one
Wol Euler: not even that, it doesn't have anything to "know" with, but if it did: it doesn't know we exist, in order to be indifferent to us
Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV
Qt Core: universe and time is/are, don't do/act
Bruce Mowbray: @ Qt: The difference between outside weather and inside weather reminds me of a poem by Robert Frost -- which (AMAZINGLY) I was thinking about earlier today.
Wol Euler: which is exctly where I wonder if I've missed some homework, qt :)
Wol Euler: do tell, bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Not necessary to do homework, Wol. Just flow with the framework here....
Bruce Mowbray: Here is are.

"Do we trust the arrival of the next moment?"

Bruce Mowbray: Do we trust the arrival of the next moment?
Wol Euler: yes
Wol Euler: but it would still arrive even if we didn't trust it
Bruce Mowbray: That is profound.
Lia Rikugun: we dont think about it
Bruce Mowbray: How deeply do we trust that?
Wol Euler: it is at right angles to our trusting or not trusting
Lia Rikugun: it is automatically in our lives
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, A;essa.
Alessa Tzal: Evening :)
--BELL--
Wol Euler: hello freud
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Freud.
Freud Jungsten: O si yo.
Lia Rikugun: hello alessa and freud
Lia Rikugun: we are talking about time, and if we can trust it
Alessa Tzal: Nabend Lia
Qt Core: Hi Alessa, Freud
Lia Rikugun: (have yout two been here before?)
Alessa Tzal: Not in my experience!
Wol Euler: yes, both are old friends
Lia Rikugun: ok good!
Wol Euler: (to lia)
Alessa Tzal smiles and nods
Freud Jungsten: I have been here, thanks for asking.
Wol Euler: [13:29] Bruce Mowbray: Do we trust the arrival of the next moment?
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps my response to your question about any topics is somewhat inappropriate....
Freud Jungsten: At work so in and out.. sorry.
Wol Euler: can you xpand on that for me please?
Wol Euler: np freud
Bruce Mowbray: OK -- assume this:
Bruce Mowbray: What is see as appearance is given to us by Timew.
Bruce Mowbray: OK with that?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Bruce Mowbray: Time*
Wol Euler: in the sense that time is the medium in which things move
Lia Rikugun: ok
Wol Euler: like things floating on a moving river
Bruce Mowbray: What we see as appearance is given to us by Time.
Bruce Mowbray: . . . . I cannot believe that the lag here is TEN SECONDS.
Lia Rikugun: (oh sorry bruce)
Bruce Mowbray: OK. You can use any metaphor of time that you wish -- moving river is fine.
Alessa Tzal: Well, that is laggy
Bruce Mowbray: OK ---
Bruce Mowbray: What we see as appearance is GIVEN to us by time.
Bruce Mowbray: Now, can we trust that?
Alessa Tzal: Probably not
Wol Euler still wonders what "trust" means
Wol Euler: "believe that it will continue to be so"?
Bruce Mowbray: "Trust" - for me - means not getting one's anxiety neurons all charged up about it.
Wol Euler: but ... why would they?
Wol Euler: *b
Wol Euler: **be
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Dash!
Alessa Tzal: Hello Dash
Bruce Mowbray: Ever been in a major earthquake, Wol?
Lia Rikugun: hi dash
Qt Core: Hi Dash
Bruce Mowbray: The shaking of the foundations....?
Lia Rikugun: to dash: we are talking about time, and if we can trust the appearances that time givbes us
Wol Euler: hello dash, nice to see you again
Dash Earthboy: good to see y'all
Bruce Mowbray: Great to see you too, Dash. Welcome back.
Wol Euler: no, bruce, fortunately. A very minor one
Wol Euler: I did experience that, yes, a horrifying moment
Wol Euler: when that which should hve been permanent and fixed, suddenly wasn't
Dash Earthboy: heya mick
Bruce Mowbray: OK. Did you sense of trusting of the universe go through any changes with that experience?
Wol Euler: hello mick
Mickorod Renard: Hiya gang
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Mick.
Alessa Tzal: Hi Mick
Wol Euler: hmmmmm (thinks)
Lia Rikugun: hello mick
Mickorod Renard: :)
Alessa Tzal: And hello Ara :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
Dash Earthboy: hey ara
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, arabella.
Qt Core: Hi Ara
Bruce Mowbray is thinking --- time to change the subject, perhaps?
Wol Euler: no!
Wol Euler grins.
Mickorod Renard: Hi alessa, i havnt met you before
Bruce Mowbray: Ha!
Lia Rikugun: hello ara
Alessa Tzal: You have ;-)
Mickorod Renard: :)
Mickorod Renard: maybe your twin sister
Alessa Tzal: Could be...
Mickorod Renard: but she is naughty,,not like you I am sure?
Alessa Tzal: I'm worse!
Mickorod Renard: eeeeeek
Wol Euler: I'd say no, bruce, it didn't affect my belief in permanence and stability.
Wol Euler: insofar as both of those are conditional anyway :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmmm... OK, Wol. Thank you for that.
Wol Euler: if it had been a major quake, with falling buildings and deaths, perhaps that wold be differnt.
arabella Ella: Hiya!
Wol Euler touches wood.
Mickorod Renard: did u have a quake Wol?
Wol Euler: a few years ago, yes. very minor
Mickorod Renard: I see
Bruce Mowbray: The theme of "shaking foundations" occurs often in philosophy and theology.
Bruce Mowbray: Tillich wrote a whole book about it.
Wol Euler: "the earth moved"
Mickorod Renard: I see
Alessa Tzal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: So. . . again, my question: Can we trust Time -- to present us with appearances that are friendly.
Mickorod Renard: well,,maybe not
Bruce Mowbray: Qt is already on record as saying, "No!"
Wol Euler: I agree but only because the question has no sensible answer :)
Bruce Mowbray sits on hands and listens, again.
Dash Earthboy: right Wol
Freud Jungsten: What is the alternative to not trusting it?
Wol Euler: it's like asking what flavour is Thursday
Alessa Tzal: Vanilla
Bruce Mowbray: Anxiety. (sorry, hands.)
Wol Euler: :-POPPPPPPPPP
Lia Rikugun: haha!
Bruce Mowbray: Loss of faith.
Freud Jungsten: NO, thursday is MOcho.
Bruce Mowbray: Insanity.
Bruce Mowbray: Inability to deal with the present.
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Alexis.
Alessa Tzal: It is?
Dash Earthboy: hey alexis
Lia Rikugun: hello alexis
Wol Euler: then I think that perhaps I am using "trust" and "friendly" in a different way.
Alexis Sommerfeld: Hello, everyone.
Mickorod Renard: Hi Alexis
Alessa Tzal: Hi Alexis
Wol Euler: hello alexis
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Wol....
Alexis Sommerfeld: Is there voice chat going on and I am not hearing it?
Alessa Tzal: (It's a pause)
Wol Euler: [13:44] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Conversations here are recorded when ON AIR. Please see http://wiki.playasbeing.org/ [13:44] Play as Being 15 minute bell: Please observe 90 seconds of silence. [13:45] Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Wol.... [
Freud Jungsten: SO if Time is that characteristic of the unvierse that prevents verything from hapening at once..... and you are wonderingif we can trust it? It is sort of like asking if we can turst gravity...... So my thought is that it is irrelvient becuase if it went wrong, it is so pervasive we would not notice.
Lia Rikugun: (we are in the 1,5 minute break :))
Wol Euler: hve you been here before, alexis?
Alessa Tzal: You arrived in the intermission Alexis :)
Alexis Sommerfeld: I've been here a few times, yes.
Wol Euler: ok, just checking
Alexis Sommerfeld: I'm fine with being recorded.
Bruce Mowbray waits for matters of protocol.
Wol Euler: I think I'm getting hte gist of what you re asking, Bruce.
Wol Euler: you want to know if there is a reason not to lose faith in being alive
Bruce Mowbray: Well, yes.
Wol Euler smiles.
Bruce Mowbray: But something much larger, also.
Dash Earthboy: life is a temporary solution to a permanent problem
Bruce Mowbray: OK, Dash. . . but how about stuff like gravity and time -- are they also "temporary solutions"?
Bruce Mowbray: Can we trust Time?
Mickorod Renard: I didnt sow these seeds of thought did I Wol,,the other day?
Wol Euler: very possibly mick :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Mick -- ALL of this is YOUR fault!
Qt Core: all in all do we have the "resources" to spend on such questions ? "I never think of the future - it comes soon enough." A. Einstein
Wol Euler: we can blame you for Bruce#s discomfort!
Dash Earthboy: can we trust gravity or the sky or a river?
Mickorod Renard: yikes,,its been on my mind too,,recently
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Mick.
Mickorod Renard: I am not up to speed Bruce
Alexis Sommerfeld: What is the question?
Wol Euler: the thing is, that I think they exist whether or not you trust them, whether or not you believe in them.
Bruce Mowbray: No problem. Blame Time for that! and now, can you trust Time?
Wol Euler: I can't turn of gravity by saying that I don't trust it (except in SL of course)
Alessa Tzal: Trust it for what?
Wol Euler: what does "trust" mean though?
Dash Earthboy: guess we don't know what is meant by the word "trust"
Freud Jungsten: What does "mean" mean?
Wol Euler: "do I believe in the continuance of htat which I observe as 'time'"?

time as an illusion

Alexis Sommerfeld: Why would you question trusting time? Time is an illusion manufactured by the mind to conveniently explain the passage of events.
Bruce Mowbray: OK -- a restating of the original question: "Can we trust Time to present us with appearances that are basically 'friendly to us'?"
Alexis Sommerfeld: Time doesn't occur in the linear fashion which our monkey brains demand that it does.
Freud Jungsten: I personally enjoy time... great fun.
Wol Euler: I can feel that there is an answer nearby which would actually reassure you, bruce :)
Wol Euler: but I can't quite put my fingeres on it
Mickorod Renard: I try and look at time for what it means to other objects
Alessa Tzal: Does Bruce need reassuring?
Bruce Mowbray: OH joy -- Here comes Calvino! I DO trust Time! I DO I DO I DO!
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: hav you seen the film "Fearless"?
Wol Euler: it's about trust, radically trusting
Bruce Mowbray: We calculate time by clocks -- every single one of which is set in reference to some other clock. . . Does that produce confience in you?
Mickorod Renard: I dont think I have

living life moment by moment

Alexis Sommerfeld: Here's a thought: if you eliminate the concept of time, and live life moment by moment, how would that change your reality?
Wol Euler: mu.
Bruce Mowbray: WONDERFUL question, Alexis.
Wol Euler: whether or not time exists is at right angles to my confidence
Mickorod Renard: I tried that on the train yesterday,,it was nice
Alessa Tzal: Mu indeed :)
Bruce Mowbray ponders "at right angles to my confidence...."
Bruce Mowbray: MUUUUUU!
Wol Euler: I have an image of this thing that you call "Time" with a capital T, and of myself and my perceptions
Wol Euler: I live in a linear time which goes from here to there
Alexis Sommerfeld: Explain the phrase, "mu"? And please, a straightforward answer so that I too can understand the inside joke.
Alessa Tzal: a) A Greek letter b) A lost continent
Bruce Mowbray: MU = "no rational explanation for the obvious"
Alexis Sommerfeld: Thank you Bruce.
Wol Euler: ok. Mu is a zen thing, a way of saying "the way you asked that questin does not have a meaningful answer"
Alessa Tzal: Or c)....what he said
Bruce Mowbray: Yes.
Bruce Mowbray: Very zenny.
Wol Euler: my linear time feels broad to me, becuse I live in it
Bruce Mowbray ponders the idea of "braod time."
Bruce Mowbray: broad*
Wol Euler: but if you could turn around in 13-dimensional space and look at it "head on", it would be no biggger than a single atom
Wol Euler: like looking down a train track
Alessa Tzal: Wow
Mickorod Renard: I have tried becoming a rock and doing away with the notion of time,,and its hard to capture any clarity of it without reverting back to linear
Wol Euler: I think that Time (capital T) is somewhere out there looking at us as pinpricks

a railroad track metaphor for what time is...

Alexis Sommerfeld: Time as a linear concept is an illusion - rather than looking at it as walkign down a railroad track, looking at as if you are the center of an infinite number of railroad tracks leading away from you.
Wol Euler: as dots of starlight (at best)
Qt Core: but yes, even considering only this little planet... how many events appen in am instant ?
Wol Euler: not because we are far away, we aren't, but we are at right angles to where and what it is
Bruce Mowbray: wonderful, Wol. "At right angles" is a concept in space -- not time. . . and is that the "problem"?
Wol Euler: that is the solution to the problem :)
Wol Euler: that is why I hve difficulty with trusting Time (capital T)
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Dash Earthboy: time like light has many shades
Wol Euler: it's like asking me to trust yellow
Mickorod Renard: maybe its like the rings of an onion from the big bang,,we are at some point on a ripple
Wol Euler: it doesn't matter whether you trust it or not
Bruce Mowbray: Yet, each MOMENT (a concept in Time) we are confronted by appearances. . . CAN we trust them?
--BELL--
Qt Core: have to go
Qt Core: bye
Dash Earthboy: me too
arabella Ella: good night Qt
Wol Euler: your trusting is along that line which it sees head-on as the thickness of a single electron
Alessa Tzal: Ciao Qt
Mickorod Renard: bye Qt
Bruce Mowbray: Be well, Qt. Thanks!
Wol Euler: bunoa notte qt
Dash Earthboy: bye all
Wol Euler: *buona
Alexis Sommerfeld: Is there a PAB group I can join for notifications?
Wol Euler: and that is a liberatoin, Bruce.
Wol Euler: because it means that you don't have to get it right, and there is no wrong either.
Alexis Sommerfeld: so far, I just show up, and sometimes people are here, sometimes they are not.
Wol Euler: smile and be :)
Wol Euler: alexis, we meet regularly every six hours
Wol Euler: 1am 7am 1pm 7pm
Mickorod Renard: thats about It Alexis
Alessa Tzal: There isn't a group as such Alexis
Mickorod Renard: sometimes we have theme events
Wol Euler: that notecard has thte basics about us.
Alexis Sommerfeld: Thank you.
Mickorod Renard: also there are associated events through Kira Cafe
Alexis Sommerfeld: I really am mostly interested in these meetings.
Alessa Tzal: I think you have been to Kira Alexis?
Alexis Sommerfeld: My SL Buddhist activities keep me very busy.
Alexis Sommerfeld: Yes, I've been to Kira, that's how I found this group.
Alessa Tzal: Ah, thought so
Alessa Tzal: I remembered you
Alexis Sommerfeld smiles.
Wol Euler: The connection to "Fearless" is this: the film starts on a plane, which crashes. As it begins to fall out of the sky, everyone panicking, the hero hears a voice in his ear
Bruce Mowbray loves this personal inter-Play.
Wol Euler: which says "This is the moment of your death."
Lia Rikugun: (sorry will leave you to go to bed :) good night everybody!)
Alessa Tzal: Gute nacht Lia, schlaf gut
Mickorod Renard: nite Lia

I left here and will leave the following uncommented

Wol Euler: He is shocked, and then things "oh! oh, well, I guess that's OK then"
Wol Euler: bye lia
Wol Euler: *thinks
Bruce Mowbray: OH! -- Goodbye, Lia. Have a good and happy day.
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Anonymous!
Wol Euler: (no more spoilers, it's a good film, look it up)
Mickorod Renard: ok,,is it recent?
Alessa Tzal: Hi Anonymous:)
Wol Euler: I will have to go in a few minutes too, my time is running out.
Wol Euler: no, mid eighties I think.
Alessa Tzal: On the clock Wol?
Mickorod Renard: thanks wol
Alessa Tzal: (Can you trust time?)
Wol Euler: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106881/
Alexis Sommerfeld: I guess its' time for me to go as well.
Alexis Sommerfeld: Thanks everyone.
Mickorod Renard: bye alexis
Alessa Tzal: Bye for now Al
Bruce Mowbray makes a note to order "Fearless" on Netflix.
Alessa Tzal: Or download the bootleg version :p
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: not taht you would do that (coughs)
Alessa Tzal: Course not
Bruce Mowbray: Of course I would!
Wol Euler: I have to go, sadly, my time is up.
Bruce Mowbray: But I can also copy the rental .... (ooooops! I probably should not have confessed that!)
Wol Euler: that was great, bruce, thank you. I get the feeling that we are not yt quite finished with this :)
Alessa Tzal: Naughty boy
Mickorod Renard: bye Wl
Bruce Mowbray: THANK YOU SO MUCH, Wol!
Mickorod Renard: Wol
Wol Euler: awwww my pleasure, for whatever it was worth.
Alessa Tzal: Take care Wol
Wol Euler: goodngiht, take care, be trusting.
arabella Ella: bye Wol tc
Alessa Tzal: And on time
Wol Euler: :)
Alessa Tzal: Bye for now
Bruce Mowbray: I am wondering if we might collect ourselves into one group -- like move to different pillows?
Bruce Mowbray: easier for me to get into the viewer.
Mickorod Renard: its such an interesting subject,,,yet its so elusive to pin down
Freud Jungsten: Better?
Mickorod Renard: I was thinking of the effects of communicating with others
Bruce Mowbray listens intently.
Freud Jungsten: See, I don't think it is an interesting question at all... but that is my perspective.
Mickorod Renard: like for example,,we believe that we influence others in some mutual as one existence,,but also there is the reality that as individuals we construct what we will from information taken
Bruce Mowbray: Not only 'interesting' but powerful.
Freud Jungsten: Yes, we filter reality.
Bruce Mowbray: a great responsibility, then?
Freud Jungsten: Put our own frames of referenses on it.
Mickorod Renard: so do we exist as seperate enities,,or are we as one?
Freud Jungsten: Biologially, we are part of an ecosystem.
--BELL--
Freud Jungsten: So we are connected.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, one of the profound realizations of the PaB Time Magic sessions, for me, has been that we share Being.... So, in that sense, we are one.
Mickorod Renard: yes, although I dont think we all perceive being as the same thing,,because that also becomes a construct,,i would have thought
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmmm... Being as a mental construct. . .
Freud Jungsten: We are not islands fro sure.
Freud Jungsten: But we can think independantly.
Bruce Mowbray: Really!? CAN we think indepentently? I really do doubt that we can.
Freud Jungsten: A matter of degree, I will give you that.
Bruce Mowbray: I feel that such "independence" is an illusion.
Mickorod Renard: yes,,the only thing we may actually share is the empty bits, as all other things have been subject to construct
Freud Jungsten: You are asserting that the form around vacuums are not constructs?
Mickorod Renard: he he ,,even the emptiness is a construct I guess
Mickorod Renard: exept for what we dont
Freud Jungsten: A lot of information can be passed via an absense.
Bruce Mowbray is deep in ponderoing all that has been chatted so far......
Bruce Mowbray: pondering*
Mickorod Renard: yes,,me too
Bruce Mowbray feels the need of a 90-second break.
Mickorod Renard: ponders that word,,omniescent
Bruce Mowbray: to "drop"....
Mickorod Renard: or something like that
Bruce Mowbray: Is there "something" that know ALL of it, Mick?
Mickorod Renard: we are stuck in what we know,,that is a filter /conditioning that restricts our imagination
Bruce Mowbray: knows*
Freud Jungsten: What I find interesting, is that in SL philosophy sims, there is an even greater dirth of non-whites... so I think there is some noise in the discussion.
Mickorod Renard: can you imagine if we knew nothing,,what would that be like?
Freud Jungsten: COngress?
Mickorod Renard: he he he
Bruce Mowbray: Why would "non-whites" create "noise"?
Freud Jungsten: SOrry, I was not clear (English is not my first language)
Mickorod Renard: by non whites,,do you refer to greys?
Mickorod Renard: :)
Freud Jungsten: THe under representation of non-whites creates noise in teh discussion.
Freud Jungsten: lol
Freud Jungsten: I just don't like the term minority as it is a silly "construct".. smiles
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm... A fascinating idea -- and I am not thinking of how this also applies in the RL.....
Bruce Mowbray: NOW thinking* sorry!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
Freud Jungsten: O si yo.
Bruce Mowbray: wb, arabella.
arabella Ella: Hiya!
Mickorod Renard: I may have to go home
Freud Jungsten: When you have an under representaion of particular interests, your data gets cloudy.
Freud Jungsten: IF that makes sense.
Bruce Mowbray: Me, too. I am sorry but I now have to leave/
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you all for a great talk today.
Freud Jungsten: ciao bella...
arabella Ella: me too gtg good night all!
Freud Jungsten: Bello
Mickorod Renard: yes, i see something there to muse over
Freud Jungsten: do na da go hv i
arabella Ella: ciao tutti!
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: I will give it some thought Freud
Freud Jungsten: OK....
Mickorod Renard: see ya soon
Freud Jungsten: Ciao bello.