2010.10.10 19:00 - Tao and Nature

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

Karencreek Melson: that is the lm to my land
Karencreek Melson: they have discussion here every 6 hours
Karencreek Melson: moderated by someone
Pila Mulligan: hi
Karencreek Melson: Hi
Pila Mulligan: hi Cal
viden Urvilan: hi cal
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Pila, and Karen, viden, Steve too :)
viden Urvilan: and Pila
Karencreek Melson: Hi all
Pila Mulligan: nice to meet you, viden and Karencreek
viden Urvilan: thnaks
Pila Mulligan: hi stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
stevenaia Michinaga: Paradise had been taking me shopping...smiles
Karencreek Melson: smiles
Pila Mulligan: is she coming tonite?
stevenaia Michinaga: don;t know
Pila Mulligan: I saw her earlier and she said she might be here
Calvino Rabeni: I can see the resemblance steve, that looks like a dres from paradises's favorite designer
stevenaia Michinaga: waas washing her dog earlier, don;t know how long such things take
Pila Mulligan: how long it takes may depend on the dog
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, let;s hope we won;t be wearing the same dress, that would be a travesty
Calvino Rabeni: The session chat recorder is on now ... does everyone know that the chats here are recorded on the group's wiki page?
Pila Mulligan: I just noticed the Ba Gua image you made, Cal -- nice
Karencreek Melson: yes
Calvino Rabeni: If that is not OK with you, let me know
viden Urvilan: what will we discuss?
Calvino Rabeni: thanks
Pila Mulligan: Cal has a very sophisticated analysis of the Ba Gua
Calvino Rabeni: Yes Pila I brought it to the earlier session
Calvino Rabeni: and did a short description of my interpretations
Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
Calvino Rabeni: ah, Paradise, welcome
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
Pila Mulligan: is that session in the posted chat logs yet, Cal?
Paradise Tennant: hiya cal .. pila steve .. viden .. karen :)
Karencreek Melson: Hi
viden Urvilan: hello paradise
Pila Mulligan: ... just checked the wiki, it isnot thee yet
Pila Mulligan: *not there
stevenaia Michinaga: what was the discussion?
stevenaia Michinaga: the summation
Pila Mulligan: let's discuss it some more :)
Calvino Rabeni: the second half was about the I Ching as a scientific system (which is my viewpoint) ... Pila here is better with its history and literature I think
viden Urvilan: at work.. gotta run
--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: bye viden
viden Urvilan: TC all
Paradise Tennant: bye viden :)
Pila Mulligan: Paradise if you sit beside me we will have the symmetry Wol so appreciates here
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: yea
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. wol will be happy then :)
Paradise Tennant: we are talking of iching ?
Pila Mulligan: I think so
Pila Mulligan: seeing Cal's Ba Gua symbol led to it
Pila Mulligan: behind him
Paradise Tennant: yes was admiring it :)
Paradise Tennant: very cool
Calvino Rabeni: That wheel is calld the bagua or 8-symbol diagram
Pila Mulligan: there was a classical split in I Ching analsysis between Confucian and Taoist schools
Pila Mulligan: Cal is more Taoist
Pila Mulligan: if I may be so bold :)
Calvino Rabeni: if you click on it twice, waiting a bit, it states two trigrams
Paradise Tennant: smiles )
Calvino Rabeni: which you can interpret as a hexagram
Paradise Tennant: cool
Pila Mulligan: cool, Cal
Calvino Rabeni: but one with no changing lines
Calvino Rabeni: lake orver heaven
Pila Mulligan: 43
Calvino Rabeni: That's an exciting one
stevenaia Michinaga: was reading about that today actualy, I picked up a book on Dao history at the Kubla Kahn exihibit saw yesterday
Paradise Tennant: smiles at steve and envys his ready access to the met
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, Pila is more interestied in I think, the confucian readings
Pila Mulligan: yes
Calvino Rabeni: which are about family structures in part
Calvino Rabeni: I see it more primally, as a science of the phenomena of nature
Pila Mulligan: much as you said earlier -- scientific system vs history and literature
Calvino Rabeni: which I suppose is more daoist
Calvino Rabeni: right
Paradise Tennant: did one just now came out 10 then 30 ..walking then brillance :) always find it a useful creative thinking tool in a way :)
Pila Mulligan: particularly the Taoist Numbers and Symbols School
Pila Mulligan: nice Paradise
Calvino Rabeni: during the session at 1pm however, we also did talk about the use for contemplation
Pila Mulligan: 10 is the ninverse of 43 by the way
Calvino Rabeni: which I think is independent a bit of other topics
Calvino Rabeni: 23 is a different kind of inverse
Calvino Rabeni: but 10 would be I'd say, an inverse of perspectives
Calvino Rabeni: 23 an inverse of process
Calvino Rabeni: Pila, what do you make of the significance of the upper versus the lower trigrams?
Pila Mulligan: well, the six positions are given attributes
Pila Mulligan: so the attributes necessarily derive from the upper and lower positions
Pila Mulligan: I also see a kind up primacy to the upper gua
Pila Mulligan: like 10 and 43
Calvino Rabeni: there's one view that the six lines are a smooth progression between lower and higher
Pila Mulligan: tui and chien trade places there
Pila Mulligan: yes
Calvino Rabeni: and another that the trigrams represent more manifest versus invisible aspects of a situation,
Calvino Rabeni: or like the content and the context
Calvino Rabeni: like the visible and invisible aspects
Calvino Rabeni: but I tend to allow for flexibility about this
Calvino Rabeni: for example the lower might be "you" and the upper "your outer situation"
Pila Mulligan: well, 10 for example has an image of treading on the tail of a tiger -- the youngest daughter above the father in that case, kind of relevant :)
Calvino Rabeni: Or the lower "self" and the upper "society"
Pila Mulligan: hi Hana
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes the 6 lines might be like levels in the "great chain of being"
Paradise Tennant: is mesmerized by alternately by steve's shimmery finery and the spinning wheel of change :)
Calvino Rabeni: the tradition ascribes some similar hierarchies
Pila Mulligan: while the inverse of 10, 43, has the imagery of being alert to danger, there the father above the youngest duaghter, again telling
Hana Furlough: Hi Steve, Cal, Muse, Pila, Para
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Calvino Rabeni: giving different levels of wisdom to the lines
Paradise Tennant: hiya hana gtsy :)
Hana Furlough: Yeah, you look amazing Steve
Calvino Rabeni: another interpretation is they represent how far a process has progressed
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Hana
stevenaia Michinaga: don;t mean to distract from the conversation....batting eyes
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: HEHE, the easel picture just rezzed in
Hana Furlough: lol
Paradise Tennant: lol
Calvino Rabeni: "Free Bruce!"
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, poor trapped bruce
Hana Furlough: why free bruce?
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Bruce somehow got "stuck" in second life
Paradise Tennant: our Bruce ?
Calvino Rabeni: I've never heard it happening before ...?
Karencreek Melson: it happens
Calvino Rabeni: Yes - our Bruce ...
Hana Furlough: what does it mean to be "stuck" in SL?
Karencreek Melson: people get stuck in the southeast corner of a sim
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe a sim restart will "free"him
Karencreek Melson: by the server
Karencreek Melson: thats where is actually puts all the avi
Karencreek Melson: on a sim
stevenaia Michinaga: I've been there but only for a few moment
Karencreek Melson: a person can get trapped in memory there
Pila Mulligan: :)
Hana Furlough: wow
Hana Furlough: that's crazy
Karencreek Melson: and not be able to log in
Karencreek Melson: because the system has them logged in as a ghost
stevenaia Michinaga: he was experimenting with new viewers recently
Calvino Rabeni: Chock that up for another entry to "1001 weird things that can happen to you in Second Life"
Hana Furlough: Is B still stuck?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Karencreek Melson: should have the sim restrated the region he was in
Hana Furlough: Oh no... is there anything that can be done?
Karencreek Melson: clean him out
Karencreek Melson: hehe
Paradise Tennant: smiles ..so .. to ask a basic question .. how exactly does the iching work as a predictive or contemplative system .. :) blinking
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: In the 1pm session when we rolled the wheel, we came up with hexagram 50, sometimes called the Cauldron
Pila Mulligan: darned if I know
Calvino Rabeni: That's a fair answer
Karencreek Melson: ???
Pila Mulligan: it works to assist contemplation the way any poetry or verse may help, but it is the predictive part that is hard to understand
Karencreek Melson: what comes to one
Karencreek Melson: depends on they are open to it
Calvino Rabeni: but another is, that reality is complex and multidimensional, and we forget that, and the I Ching suggests ... have you looked at *this* aspect of it recently?
Pila Mulligan: true
Hana Furlough: Cal, that's amazing
stevenaia Michinaga: it works as a "wack on the side of the head" works, who know why we are stuck, but this is a tool to get unstuck
Calvino Rabeni: Basically the I Ching is a map or model to represent all the possible situations of change in a schematic way
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, what Cal said
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles at steve and gives the side of his head a little rub :) ouch
Calvino Rabeni: It's like "this coin has two sides" ... but more complex :)
Calvino Rabeni: everyone knows, well, the coin has another side
Paradise Tennant: so a probability system of some sort
Calvino Rabeni: the I ching says, maybe it has 64 sides
Calvino Rabeni: and our minds *love* to match up ideas and reality and construct a likely story
Karencreek Melson: that is how we create meaningfulness
stevenaia Michinaga: a good # but why 64, although it has interesting binary characteristics
Calvino Rabeni: it is arbitray
Karencreek Melson: that leads to new meaning
Calvino Rabeni: arbitrary
Paradise Tennant: interesting binary characteristics can you say more :)
Calvino Rabeni: there's nothing significant about the 64 in my opinion
Hana Furlough: what is arbitrary, cal?
Hana Furlough: oh gotcha
Calvino Rabeni: It is like, reality is a pie, and you can slice it however you like
Calvino Rabeni: this is just a certain way to slice it
Karencreek Melson: any way one slices it is valid
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, because it is really an undivided whole
Karencreek Melson: just a question of how useful that slice
Karencreek Melson: is
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Calvino Rabeni: it is like the concept of measuring, and a number line
stevenaia Michinaga: so it is really a tool for the mind
Calvino Rabeni: put together numbers, and the idea of a line, and .... *measurement* is possible
Pila Mulligan: numerically, 64 comes from all the possible combinations of the ba (8) gua -- 8 x 8
Calvino Rabeni: but the number scale is kind of irrelevant
stevenaia Michinaga: for meaning
Karencreek Melson: numbers are not words
Karencreek Melson: but we feel the same way about therm
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: But there's also something much more embodied or "natural " about the symbols of the I Ching
Calvino Rabeni: they talk about situations or primal forms in the world
Calvino Rabeni: not just arbitrary geometric ideas
Karencreek Melson: they were born out of being
Paradise Tennant: wonders at the primal forms :)
Calvino Rabeni: like lakes, mountains, fire
Karencreek Melson: they would
Calvino Rabeni: water, wind
Paradise Tennant: so much of life is almost beyond imagining
Calvino Rabeni: and different behaviors of matter and its structures
Karencreek Melson: its there if one is open to it
Karencreek Melson: too much to take in
Karencreek Melson: but there
Calvino Rabeni: It is one of the things I like about the I Ching, that it invites us to take Nature as our teacher
Calvino Rabeni: and learn by looking around at the world and contemplating how it works
Hana Furlough: yeah that's really nice
Calvino Rabeni: so it is pointing to an organic unity
Hana Furlough: not controlling things, learning how to flow
Calvino Rabeni: and saying it has intrinsic structure, or Tao involved
Calvino Rabeni: structure or process
Calvino Rabeni: So in a way, it tries to carve reality at the joints
Calvino Rabeni: to use a Daoist story as a metaphor
Karencreek Melson: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts
Karencreek Melson: being at one with what is
Karencreek Melson: it total
Karencreek Melson: and peace
Karencreek Melson: is
Karencreek Melson: darn keyborad
Karencreek Melson: :-)
Paradise Tennant: smiles at karen :)
Hana Furlough: a fantastic daoist story it is
Karencreek Melson: I am enjoying following your trains of thought
Karencreek Melson: but have no reference
Calvino Rabeni: You might say, mathematics doesn't so much carve nature at the joints, but into little squares and cubes
Karencreek Melson: to the terms
Karencreek Melson: so I will take my leave of you good folks
Calvino Rabeni: I'll try to find it, it is a Chuang Tzu story about a cook
Paradise Tennant: hmm it does more than that
Pila Mulligan: bye Karen
Paradise Tennant: it elegantly .. linking relationships
Calvino Rabeni: and how his knife always stayed sharp because he didn't go against the grain
Karencreek Melson: may peace be with you
Paradise Tennant: math is beauty ..
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for joining us Karen
Hana Furlough: bye karen
Paradise Tennant: good nite karen namaste :)
Hana Furlough: do you want me to copy in the link to the story, cal?
Calvino Rabeni: Do you have it handy?
Calvino Rabeni: sure
stevenaia Michinaga: yes pls
Calvino Rabeni: It's one of my favorites
Hana Furlough: yeah, and it's a good translation
Calvino Rabeni: along with "The Fasting of the Heart"
Calvino Rabeni: another one I love
Hana Furlough: i don't know "the fasting of the heart"
Hana Furlough: what is that?
Calvino Rabeni: I'll see if I can find it - there are different titles
Calvino Rabeni: IT is about dealing with a seemingly impossible situation
Calvino Rabeni: Here it is titled "This Human World" http://www.personaltao.com/tao/chuang_tzu.htm#HUMAN
Hana Furlough: [Here's the cook story]:
Hana Furlough: "Cook Ting was cutting up an ox for Lord Wen-hui. At every touch of his hand, every heave of his shoulder, every move of his feet, every thrust of his knee-zip! zoop! He slithered the knife along with a zing, and all was in perfect rhythm, as though he were performing the dance of the Mulberry Grove or keeping time to the Ching-shou music. ??? "Cook Ting laid down his knife and [said], 'What I care about is the Way, which goes beyond all skill. When I first began cutting up oxen, all I could see was the ox itself. After three years I no longer saw the whole ox. And now-now I go at it by spirit and don't look with my eyes. Perception and understanding have come to a stop and spirit moves where it wants. I go along with the natural makeup, strike in the big hollows, guide the knife through the big openings, and follow things as they are. So I never touch the smallest ligament or tendon, much less a main joint. "A good cook changes his knife once a year-because he cuts.
Hana Furlough: "A good cook changes his knife once a year-because he cuts. A mediocre cook changes his knife once a month-because he hacks. I've had this knife of mine for nineteen years and I've cut up thousands of oxen with it, and yet the blade is as good as though it had just come from the grindstone. There are spaces between the joints, and the blade of the knife has really no thickness. If you insert what has no thickness into such spaces, then there's plenty of room-more than enough for the blade to play about it. That's why after nineteen years the blade of my knife is still as good as when it first came from the grindstone." (Basic Writings, p.46-47)
Hana Furlough: http://www.udel.edu/Philosophy/afox/zhuangzi.htm
Calvino Rabeni: Yes that's very nice
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: The other story "This Human World" was interesting because it made "nondoing" or wu-wei into a truly life-or-death matter
Calvino Rabeni: Very dramatic :)
Paradise Tennant: nods yes ..
Hana Furlough: very nice
Calvino Rabeni: It reminds me of one of the Castaneda books in which the students go into the service of different Tyrants to test their capacities
Calvino Rabeni: another kind of metaphor
--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: likes the mist .. sometimes in the 90 sec breaks I visualize myself dissolving into the mist :)
Calvino Rabeni: It resonates a bit with a recent discussion we had here with Bruce - whether "reality" can be considered "benign", or NOT.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, ... is it "safe" to dissolve? :)
Hana Furlough: good idea, para
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, like your puzzle picture
Hana Furlough: i will try it
Paradise Tennant: kind of the out look you take to it
Hana Furlough: i have to run
Hana Furlough: wonderful talking to you all
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Hana
Calvino Rabeni: Take xare Hana, good to see you
Hana Furlough: good night
Paradise Tennant: good nite hana
Paradise Tennant: namaste
Pila Mulligan: bye Hana
Paradise Tennant: hmm well what do we define as reality that is not .. a thought projection
stevenaia Michinaga: conciousness?
Pila Mulligan: illusion could be defined as not reality
stevenaia Michinaga: conciousness is a realiity that is dificult to define
Calvino Rabeni: I've lost all distinction about that word ... what is it supposed to mean?
Paradise Tennant: nods ..
Calvino Rabeni: It seems it just asks one to play favorites with theories
Calvino Rabeni: How many different ways of being "real" might there be?
Pila Mulligan: but isn't playing favorites with theories a fair description of life?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, perhaps it is
Paradise Tennant: smiles at pila yes i think so
Calvino Rabeni: except it is done in so many ways
Paradise Tennant: we adapt .. mix and match .. whatever it takes to get us through this dream :)
stevenaia Michinaga: the mutitude of perspectives on things is what gives us such a rich reality
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Paradise Tennant: yes like somehow we can pick up on the constructs of all the consciousness
Paradise Tennant: why it is diverse ..
Paradise Tennant: surprising sometimes
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps it is our own creative processed that define reality
Pila Mulligan: or our interests, to get back to Don Juan
Calvino Rabeni: What if I were to say - rather ask - the question - Do you have an offering for the next PlayAsBeing Session - and invite your contribution?
Calvino Rabeni: What could we do with that?
stevenaia Michinaga: offering? you mean a subject?
stevenaia Michinaga: topic?
Calvino Rabeni: It's obviously (a) possible, and (b) in need of being defined by you
Calvino Rabeni: See that's the question
Calvino Rabeni: what is it to you?
Calvino Rabeni: Suppose I say, it is up to you, but really choose wisely acccording to your own understanding
Paradise Tennant: i would pick imagination .. as a cauldron .. a bubbling pot .. that .. forments :)))
stevenaia Michinaga: awww, any of the above
Calvino Rabeni: then you engage in a creative act
Calvino Rabeni: and it might have real consequences in the world, however subtle
Paradise Tennant: well every thought you have as a consequence ..it changes you
Calvino Rabeni: That is an idea that came to me from contemplating Hexagram 50, the Cauldron, as it came up at the 1pm session
Paradise Tennant: why thinking should come with a guide and rule book :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: Ingeneral true, Paradise, but ... some more than others perhaps?
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Calvino Rabeni: Tha's a great one, I love it Paradise
--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: "The daily world exists because we know how to hold its images; consequently, if one drops the attention needed to maintain those images, the world collapses."
Paradise Tennant: sigh
Pila Mulligan: from Don Juan, Second Ring of Power
Paradise Tennant: hmm going to have to reread that
Calvino Rabeni: I had one in mind too ... and it might be seen as related ... which is ... why is "not knowing" hard to jump into, and what do we offer others by our "cooking"
Pila Mulligan: we offer others our interests :)
Calvino Rabeni: The cauldron image has a nice abundance to it
Paradise Tennant: hmm think our brains link
Paradise Tennant: sure of it
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, night all
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve, nice to see oyu
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Paradise Tennant: can be trying to work out a problem and having someone near just helps
Calvino Rabeni: stevenaia
Paradise Tennant: good nite steve :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves at the shimmery flash of colour
Calvino Rabeni: having someone near ... yes
Calvino Rabeni: I've been noticing the difference between solo meditations and those with other peopel
Paradise Tennant: more powerful with other people
Pila Mulligan: a gestalt
Calvino Rabeni: and it feels like there's a "field" created or tapped
Calvino Rabeni: afterwards I feel actually different about the others
Calvino Rabeni: and maybe just a little more intelligent somehow
Calvino Rabeni: amazing how that works
Paradise Tennant: the whole is greater than the sum of the parts
Pila Mulligan: yep
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it seems also, it helps for the "parts" to show up and be present
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Calvino Rabeni: And the "whole" probably likes it
Paradise Tennant: smiles yes
Pila Mulligan: Frtiz Perls said the gestalt phenomenon was enhanced when the parts were diverse
Pila Mulligan: more greater :)
Paradise Tennant: yin and yang
Paradise Tennant: dark and light
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, if there's the ability to allow for the dynamic tension within the larger gestalt field
Calvino Rabeni: It seems to me gestalt is about being with that tension
Calvino Rabeni: in part, of course
Calvino Rabeni: Pila, did you have an involvement with gestalt or with perls?
Paradise Tennant: shall we do a mediation ?
Pila Mulligan: to me a gestalt is analogous to an orgasm, the tension builds up to a moment of greaterness and repose
Pila Mulligan: yes, some
Pila Mulligan: yes to both
Calvino Rabeni: I like both these opposite ideas :)
Calvino Rabeni: the meditation and the tension
Pila Mulligan: 5 miuntes
Calvino Rabeni: well, personally, I'd like to do a short meditation, then I will have to go
Paradise Tennant: okies
Calvino Rabeni: that sounds just right
Pila Mulligan: shall we stop at 8:330 SLt then
Pila Mulligan: 8:33*
Calvino Rabeni: ok
Paradise Tennant: ok
Paradise Tennant: do you want to gong :)
Pila Mulligan: ** gong **
Paradise Tennant: smiles
--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: ** un-gong ** :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: thanks, nice idea Paradise
Paradise Tennant: I was visualizing breathing in the conmingled consciousness and then breathing out peace
Calvino Rabeni smiles
Paradise Tennant: felt really nice
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Calvino Rabeni: thanks
Pila Mulligan: Cal, a freind-neighor here was an associate of Fritz Perls at Esalen
Calvino Rabeni: That's interesting to have that connection
Pila Mulligan: yep ... same fellow also wasa freindof ALan Watts :)
Calvino Rabeni: nice
Paradise Tennant: wow
Calvino Rabeni: well, we have some bakground ...
Pila Mulligan: hi Mitiz
Paradise Tennant: hiya mitzi ..gtsy :)))))
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Mitzi
Paradise Tennant: big smile
Calvino Rabeni: I was just saying I had to leave .. maybe I can BRB in 10 minutes - I'd like to chat
Calvino Rabeni: How are you?
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi all ...
Mitzi Mimistrobell: A bit stressed ... have a big deadline tonight/tomorrow ... but I wanted to connect
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I just got a new computer and excited to try out a much more high-res version of SL
Pila Mulligan: a Big Monday, eh
Mitzi Mimistrobell: It's very awesome!
Pila Mulligan: nice :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: *Envy* -- mine is SO SLOOOOW
Pila Mulligan: mine also is antique
Calvino Rabeni: OK, I'll just leave my avatar sitting here a while - acting dumb :)
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Ohh, this is so great ... it's more of a "flow" experience now
Pila Mulligan: :)
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I'll stay for a short while ... nice to be here.
Mitzi Mimistrobell: What did I miss so far ... what topics came up?
Paradise Tennant: we covered a broad range
Pila Mulligan: what's your big event Mitzi, if you care to say
Paradise Tennant: iching
Paradise Tennant: gestalt
Pila Mulligan: reality
Paradise Tennant: did a short meditation
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh, launching a new version of website for a cool, buddhist oriented non profit (don't want to say their name publically) - I'm a web designer
Pila Mulligan: sounds cool
Pila Mulligan: what software do you use?
Paradise Tennant: way cool :)
Pila Mulligan: I was recently introduced to Joomla (not being an up-to-date person with website design)
Pila Mulligan: it seems pretty adept
Mitzi Mimistrobell: WordPress! Year long learning curve finally beginning to pay off
Pila Mulligan: :)
Mitzi Mimistrobell: But ... I'm here to change my mental map for a bit ...
Pila Mulligan: ok
Mitzi Mimistrobell: what else is on your mind ...?
Pila Mulligan: well, reality was a recent dish on the buffet
Pila Mulligan: [20:05] Paradise Tennant: hmm well what do we define as reality that is not .. a thought projection
Pila Mulligan: [20:07] stevenaia Michinaga: conciousness is a realiity that is dificult to define
--BELL--

Mitzi Mimistrobell: I've heard the distinction "real" versus "actual"
Pila Mulligan: [20:07] Calvino Rabeni: How many different ways of being "real" might there be?
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I would respond to that inquiry ... an infinite number ...
Pila Mulligan: yes, actual as in evidenced
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yes.
Pila Mulligan: I am persuaded by evidence also
Mitzi Mimistrobell: By that token, there would just be an arbitary distinction between real and unreal.
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I am persuaded as well. That's why I love science, I like feeling that there are "nuggets" of something quasi solid beneath all this shifting sand that is our daily experience.
Paradise Tennant: smiles wonders at the nuggets
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Reminds me of tapioca ...
Pila Mulligan: including a round planet
Paradise Tennant: maybe not so nuggety :)
Pila Mulligan: or fairly round at least
Paradise Tennant: everything shifts
Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... little tiny harder globules in a softer, more fluid medium
Pila Mulligan: plate tectonics :)
Paradise Tennant: heres to harder globules :)
Mitzi Mimistrobell: On NPR they were speaking of the surprising lumpiness of the earth ...
Pila Mulligan: yes, and gravity is lumpy too it seems
Mitzi Mimistrobell: or accurate assessment of the fuzziness or hardness of the globules such as they may be in actuality!
Paradise Tennant: hmm thought there was very little real matter in the universe we are mostly air just like a our avatars :)
Pila Mulligan: did you see Noam Chomsky will be interviewed in SL on Tuesday Mitzi?
Mitzi Mimistrobell: No ... what's he up to recently?
Pila Mulligan: http://www.metanomics.net/show/october_12_noam_chomsky_appears_on_metanomics/
Mitzi Mimistrobell: On in SL! I'm not a particular fan of Noam myself
Pila Mulligan: me either, but it should be interesting noetheless
Pila Mulligan: and it also will be available by simultaneous video on their website
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I like his fiestiness though
Pila Mulligan: I'm curious to see how well it works
Pila Mulligan: yep
Paradise Tennant: fiesty is good ..like my reality fiesty :)
Pila Mulligan: I rememebr seeing a 1969 debate between Chomsky and William F. Buckley
Mitzi Mimistrobell: so much more engaging
Mitzi Mimistrobell: ha! that must have been fiesty!
Pila Mulligan: http://ashujo.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/chomsky-vs-buckley-one-of-the-best-documentaries/ -- a WordPress site :)
Pila Mulligan: I could never quite take Buckley's attitude
Calvino Rabeni: That is a famous interview
Pila Mulligan: yep
Calvino Rabeni: a little like Mumammed Ali and Howard Cosell - its in the video greatest hits
Pila Mulligan: :) Cal, did you see Noam Chomsky will be interviewed in SL on Tuesday
Mitzi Mimistrobell: may he rest in peace. He does make current conservative commentators look like Neaderthals
Pila Mulligan: true Mitzi
Calvino Rabeni: Yes I heard ... quite a buzz going about it
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi Cal are you back?
Calvino Rabeni: Yep
Pila Mulligan: note URL above in chat log about it
Pila Mulligan: at 20:49
Calvino Rabeni: Does anyone here know how a spider weaves a web? realized I don't know the construction method they use.
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: very advanced engineering, them
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I hear they do the spokes first ... then they begin in the middle and spiral outward to do the cross-strokes, and can go very rapidly.
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Is that the kind of "how" you had in mind?
Paradise Tennant: Three simple forms of web can be recognized. The sheet web, the orb web and the spatial web. The most well known form is the orb web. How is this web constructed? The most difficult part is the construction of the first thread. This is a sturdy horizontal thread on which the rest of the web is hanging. How does the spider connect this thread between the two connecting points? She can not fly. Does she connect a thread at one place, walk down with an enrolling thread behind her to the other side where pulls the thread horizontal and connects it? No, the answer is simpler. She makes use of the wind and some luck.
Calvino Rabeni: They *somehow* make a big flat plane of cross wires, then *somehow* know to make a big circle around it, ... then they sprial in from that circle, following their previous thread all the way to the center
Paradise Tennant: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ednieuw/Spiders/InfoNed/webthread.html
Calvino Rabeni smiles ... ask and ye shall receive
Paradise Tennant: The wind carries a thin adhesive thread released from her spinners while making the thread longer and longer. If she is lucky the thread sticks to a proper spot. Then she walks carefully over the thread, strengthening it with a second thread. This is repeated until the primary thread is strong enough. After this, she hangs a thread in the form of a Y below the primary thread. These are the first three radial of the web. More radials are constructed taking care that the distance between the radial is small enough to cross. Then non-sticky circular construction spirals are made. The web is completed when the adhesive spiral threads are placed. While the sticky spirals are placed the non-sticky spirals are removed. Not every web is constructed in this way; a lot of variations are possible. The web on the pictures above has an inverted Y that was connected to an electrical wire 10 meters higher. Besides the orb webs other catching web designs are used. A particular one is that of the net-casting spider Deino
--BELL--

Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: I've had nice meditaitons watching spiders build a web
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Was that spider question apropos of another concept, Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: Just the general theme of how much we are content to not-know, under some circumstances... maybe I was watching some kittens and their ferocious curiosity
Calvino Rabeni: And, we were talkng about nature meditation in conjunction with the I Ching at 1PM session
Mitzi Mimistrobell: ah!
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I would have enjoyed that topic.
Calvino Rabeni: and noting how at first nothing shows, then there is confusion, then the details slowly are revealed
Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes ... form emerging from the mist.
Calvino Rabeni: Right
Calvino Rabeni: staring into the fog
Mitzi Mimistrobell: You missed my "tapioca" analogy.
Paradise Tennant: one of my best mediations was lying flat on a rock in a forest in the rain watching the rain form a puddle on my stomach . :)))
Calvino Rabeni: part of the fearsome thing about "not knowing" and contemplation
Calvino Rabeni: The Taoists having a particular affinity for water
Calvino Rabeni: because once you start looking at it ....
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: well it gets rather strange :)
Calvino Rabeni: and has all kinds of structures appearing and disappearing
Paradise Tennant: stranger than life ....
Calvino Rabeni: oddly it is completly flexible but not at all compressible
Paradise Tennant: smiles likes that about water
Mitzi Mimistrobell: oooh ... that is wondrous to contemplate
Pila Mulligan: and it chnages states quite easily -- liquid to solid or gas
Paradise Tennant: whatever the situation calls for :)
Paradise Tennant: have alwasy chosen to live near it .. ..something about how it always is changing ..
Calvino Rabeni: and it makes such evocative sounds
Calvino Rabeni: that we even like a recording of it here in second life
Calvino Rabeni: to sit by a simulation of a stream, and listen to a recording of real water
Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... very poetic Calvino, re: water. It is truly the element of life.
Mitzi Mimistrobell: My lovelies ... I must depart to attend to various matters ... it's been nice to connect though, even though short ....
Paradise Tennant: hhmm yes so nice to fall asleep to surf .. or wake up to rain drumming on the roof .. particularly if you do not have to go out in it
Pila Mulligan: bye Mitzi, good luck with your grand opening
Calvino Rabeni: As it is right now .. rain drumming on a flat roof
Paradise Tennant: good nite mitzi :)
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Good everning all ...
Paradise Tennant: nice to have seen you even if for a short time :)
Calvino Rabeni: I'll go too ... thanks and good evening everyone
Paradise Tennant: well I guess I should go too
Paradise Tennant: staying up late because tomorrow is a holiday
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Paradise Tennant: but it is getting late :)
Paradise Tennant: namaste cal
Calvino Rabeni: namaste, good bye
Pila Mulligan: 'night Cal, thanks for the evnieng
Paradise Tennant: thank you for both for a great session
Calvino Rabeni: YW
Calvino Rabeni: take care
Paradise Tennant: good night pila :)
Pila Mulligan: bye Paradise, thanks also to you
Paradise Tennant: smiles and waves at you from a very long way away :)
Pila Mulligan: :) just a few thousand miles :)