2010.10.30 19:00 - Time and Again

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Bleu Oleander: hi Pema :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Bleu!
    Pema Pera: Good to see again
    Bleu Oleander: how's everything going?
    Bleu Oleander: what part of the world are you in now?
    Pema Pera: fine, still morning here, in Tokyo
    Bleu Oleander: nice
    Pema Pera: Sunday morning, peaceful
    Pema Pera: and no appointment for at least a few hours :)
    Bleu Oleander: lovely

    I asked Bleu about her RL Salon.

    Pema Pera: how are things going with your salon in RL?
    Bleu Oleander: great, very busy!
    Pema Pera: are things changing over time, or are you keeping more or less the same ingredients?
    Bleu Oleander: subjects/speakers always change but format stays the same
    Pema Pera: it seems to work well, and the idea of going on a RL trip once is year is brilliant
    Bleu Oleander: we've added CA to our big list of states we travel to (NY the only other one hehe)
    Bleu Oleander: not quite as adventurous as you, but starting to step out a bit :)
    Bleu Oleander: there's quite a line up of speakers coming to ASU next weekend for a symposium
    Bleu Oleander: http://origins.asu.edu/
    Pema Pera: ah, another one?
    Bleu Oleander: 95 of our members are going
    Pema Pera: the last one was two years ago, perhaps?
    Bleu Oleander: they've had several
    Bleu Oleander: they're bringing in lots of interesting people
    Pema Pera: yes, I can see that!
    Bleu Oleander: it's been fun for us!
    Pema Pera: yes, easy to get to
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Pema Pera: how many members do you have right now?
    Bleu Oleander: over 300
    Pema Pera: wow! that's a lot
    Bleu Oleander: amazingly stays about the same number
    Pema Pera: ;-) like with PaB guardians, hovering around 65 for the last two years or so
    Pema Pera: people coming and going at about the same rate
    Bleu Oleander: yes interesting isn't it

    And then Bleu mentioned my book project http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time

    Bleu Oleander: your book project has been great Pema
    Bleu Oleander: really appreciate you sharing your process with us
    Bleu Oleander: and involving the group
    Pema Pera: oh thank you, Bleu!
    Bleu Oleander: more of the guardians should take part
    Pema Pera: and thank you for your involvement, and your dedication of writing all those reports -- that takes time and discipline
    Bleu Oleander: it's been fun
    Pema Pera: yes, for me too
    Bleu Oleander: already have some art of being entries for the new project
    Pema Pera: are there particular points you'd like to discuss, now that we are here with only the two of us?
    Pema Pera: ah, great, yes, Art of Being is a wonderful initiative
    Pema Pera: so glad you are continuing with those
    Bleu Oleander: still trying to wrap my mind around time
    Bleu Oleander: manifest vs. scientific
    Pema Pera: how about letting time unwrap your mind :-)
    Bleu Oleander: I would l o v e that!
    Pema Pera: right now, every moment is given afresh by time, right?
    Pema Pera: and you yourself are given afresh each moment
    Bleu Oleander: yes, I don't have a problem accepting that
    Bleu Oleander: I like that
    Pema Pera: we may feel that we come from the past, and that each moment we are more or less the same, with only tiny tiny changes in each second, building up slooooowly
    Pema Pera: but we dont' have to feel that
    Pema Pera: you could say that that is an evolutionary stabilization trick
    Bleu Oleander: probably a good thing along the way

    I suggested an exploration, to try out on the spot:

    Pema Pera: how about looking time straight into the face and say thank you for the new moment you find yourself in, without presuming that you will be (almost) the same that moment?
    Pema Pera: shall we do that for a few moments ( :-) ) ?
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    Pema Pera: okay!
    Pema Pera: Hi Devi, come join us!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Devi
    Devi Pearl: hi
    Pema Pera: Devi, we get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://wiki.playasbeing.org/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
    Pema Pera to Bleu: you see how each moment can bring something or someone new :-)
    Devi Pearl: ok my writing is not so good
    Bleu Oleander: yes, definitely!
    Pema Pera: that's fine, Devi!
    Devi Pearl: ok
    Pema Pera: Bleu and I were just talking about time
    Pema Pera: and how each moment is new
    Pema Pera: and how we all are new in each moment
    Devi Pearl: yes we create each moment
    Pema Pera: I noticed how the tendency to consider ourselves as constant is constant; but that doesn't mean that we are constant, only that that tendency is pretty constant :-)
    Bleu Oleander: to what extent does language limit the discussion/thoughts about time?
    Pema Pera: to the same extent that it limits all of our thoughts and understanding, I think :)
    Pema Pera: that's why it's so important to take off the lid, and to look what is brewing underneath the concepts and words
    Pema Pera: can you say more, Devi, about us creating each moment?
    Bleu Oleander: can one ever get beyond the words?
    Devi Pearl: yes to be aware in the now
    Devi Pearl: thoughts and surroundings, what we feeling
    Devi Pearl: how it effects us
    Bleu Oleander: hi Luci :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Lucinda!
    Lucinda Lavender: hello Pema
    Pema Pera: we are talking about time, Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: , bleu, devi
    Lucinda Lavender: ah
    Devi Pearl: hi
    Lucinda Lavender: nice to meet you Devi
    Pema Pera: yes, Devi, and when we look carefully, we see so many changes, each moment -- like a boiling pan, when we take off the lid, we can see what is simmering there, underneath the lid of words and concepts
    Pema Pera: (repeating an image for Lucinda :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: thank you Pema

    I rephrase my earlier suggestion, now that Lucinda and Devi had joined Bleu and me.

    Pema Pera: Lucinda and Devi, Bleu and I were thinking about doing a little experiment/exploration: to spend a few moments, say a minute or so, while trying to see each moment how we ourselves appear totally afresh in that moment -- how time presents not only a new world but a new me and a new you, each moment . . . . shall we do that for a minute?
    Lucinda Lavender: sounds good!
    Bleu Oleander: sure!
    Pema Pera: okay, here goes!
    Pema Pera: thank you! well, for me it felt at the same time a bit like walking in a fog, like walking at the edge of a cliff on a clear day, and also cristalline in some sense -- three very different images . . . .
    Bleu Oleander: noticed that I needed to back out of sl to rl to feel time presenting a new moment
    Lucinda Lavender: I felt new...reborn...as tho what I was seeing and felling and speaking in my mind was new possibiltyand like Bleu I backed out as well...
    Devi Pearl: i backed out too and felt my breath
    Pema Pera: interestingly, yes, come to think of it, I felt myself looking away from the screen too :-)
    Bleu Oleander: really the first time I had noticed that

    After we noticed how, remarkably, all us us backed away from SL, we embarked on a second exploration during which we explicitly tried to stay within SL.

    Pema Pera: so how about using the 90 seconds now to do the same exploration, but in SL, without backing away?
    Lucinda Lavender: sounds goo...
    Lucinda Lavender: d
    Bleu Oleander: oooo hard one, ok
    Devi Pearl: with eyes close or?
    Pema Pera: better open, I think
    Pema Pera: eyes are our only connection with SL, apart from background sound
    Bleu Oleander: felt static, lost in time
    Bleu Oleander: not as fluid as rl
    Pema Pera: I noticed the stars more, now that it is night time in SL
    Lucinda Lavender: saw and imagined I felt the mist from the pools center...
    Pema Pera: and I wondered about the fact that I know intellectually that the images of our avatars are indeed refreshed many dozens of times each second . . .
    Pema Pera: though it doesn't feel that way
    Bleu Oleander: oh interesting
    Bleu Oleander: doesn't feel that way
    Devi Pearl: I felt relaxed looking around
    Bleu Oleander: that might make a difference in the experience
    Pema Pera: isn't that interesting, how much we can explore about our own mind, in just a few minutes ?!?
    Lucinda Lavender: felt as tho perhaps the avatar was creating a new leaf that was unfurling
    Pema Pera: like a fern?
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...
    Pema Pera: nice image . . .
    Lucinda Lavender: one I am familiar with that expresses newness
    Lucinda Lavender: must go for now...will watch for more unfurling...
    Bleu Oleander: bye Luci, nice to see you!
    Pema Pera: bye Licinda!
    Pema Pera: thanks for joining us
    Lucinda Lavender: thank you :) see you soon but from a new location for the week

    And as a third exploration, we try to keep a mix of attention for both RL and SL

    Pema Pera: shall we do one more exploration? How about combining the previous two? It may be difficult but perhaps we can manage: for one minute, try to be aware SIMULTANEOUSLY of you sitting in RL in front of the screen and keyboard, AND als being present in SL?
    Pema Pera: new location?
    Lucinda Lavender: see you then..
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    Pema Pera: ah, new location in RL perhaps :-)
    Pema Pera: exit Lucinda :)
    Pema Pera: Lucinda was already engaging in the exploration by posing us a riddle, perhaps :-)
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Pema Pera: so let's do that for a minute or so . . . . may be a bit tricky to stay aware of both RL and SL, but we can try
    Bleu Oleander: ok
    Pema Pera: how interesting!
    Bleu Oleander: yes!
    Pema Pera: something I very rarely do, I now realize
    Bleu Oleander: difficult
    Bleu Oleander: me too
    Pema Pera: we tend to be at either side of the screen -- identifying with the role of typist or the role of avatar
    Pema Pera: but it is possible to do both, or to suspend both to some degree, hard to describe
    Bleu Oleander: yes, somehow sl works better that way
    Pema Pera: I noticed two aspects in particular:
    Pema Pera: 1) me and my avatar watching each other across the divide :)
    Bleu Oleander: two versions of myself
    Bleu Oleander: competing for attention
    Pema Pera: 2) a sense of oscillation between being more in RL and more in SL, hard to stay in the middle
    Pema Pera: hahaha, yes, Bleu, we're expressing something very similar
    Bleu Oleander: yes :)
    Pema Pera: you in a shorter way :)
    Bleu Oleander: are you facing your av?
    Pema Pera: from side-front
    Bleu Oleander: yes, me too .... maybe that makes a diff
    Pema Pera: not straight, but I can see my/his face
    Devi Pearl: i became the observer of my Av and my real body i feld my heartbeat and also felt that my AV is very relaxed more relax than my real body
    Pema Pera: "my/his" feels funny as a thing to write, btw :-)
    Pema Pera: oh, how interesting Devi, can you say more about that?
    Bleu Oleander: yes :)
    Bleu Oleander: it seems funny to talk about my av in the 3rd person
    Bleu Oleander: rather than refering to me
    Bleu Oleander: interesting explorations Pema

    Bleu takes off and Devi and I chat for a bit longer

    Bleu Oleander: I must be going
    Bleu Oleander: have a great day
    Bleu Oleander: nice meeting you Devi
    Pema Pera: bye Bleu!
    Devi Pearl: ok how can i joine the group next time?
    Bleu Oleander: bye for now :)
    Pema Pera: of course, any time, Devi!
    Pema Pera: we meet here four times a day
    Pema Pera: at 1 am, 7 am, 1 pm, 7 pm SLT
    Pema Pera: every six hours
    Devi Pearl: can you send me pl a group notice?
    Pema Pera: we don't have group notices
    Pema Pera: we just meet here
    Pema Pera: but we have a wiki:
    Devi Pearl: ok
    Pema Pera: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
    Pema Pera: there is lots and lots of information there
    Devi Pearl: great ty it was good
    Pema Pera: for example, I am writing a book about time, you can find that there too, on http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time
    Devi Pearl: ok
    Devi Pearl: will check it out ty
    Pema Pera: it was interesting how you described your avatar as more relaxed than you were
    Pema Pera: and I, too, often feel peaceful when sitting here
    Pema Pera: away from all the complexities of RL
    Devi Pearl: yes and when i tune deeper into my AV I feel more relaxed
    Pema Pera: interesting, another nice way of exploring SL
    Devi Pearl: even became one with it
    Pema Pera: yes
    Devi Pearl: but i am aware that my mind and personality in Rl controlles my AV
    Pema Pera: yes, but at the same time the RL personality is influenced by what happens in SL
    Devi Pearl: i guest we may look for a balance between AV and me and RL and SL

    At this point I saw in Devi's profile that she was born in Germany, so it was natural to switch to German.

    Pema Pera: es war schoen dich hier zu treffen, Devi, mach's gut (ich habe grad dien Profil angeschaut, ich bin Hollaender)
    Pema Pera: (und wohne in New York)
    Pema Pera: (aber jetzt bin ich in Tokyo :-)
    Devi Pearl: gut
    Devi Pearl: schoen mal wieder deutsch zu reden
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: ich war grad in Deutschland, Stuttgart, fuer zwei Wochen
    Pema Pera: wir hatten ein RL treffen fuer Play as Being, unsere Gruppe hier, mit sechs leute
    Pema Pera: wir haben ein RL Treffen vier mal im Jahr
    Devi Pearl: we lange bis du in Tokyo und was machts du da?
    Pema Pera: Astronomie, mein Arbeit, Forschung -- ich bin hier fuer drei Monate, bis ende Januar
    Devi Pearl: gut
    Devi Pearl: das treffen ist in deutschland?
    Devi Pearl: ich bin aus KOELN
    Pema Pera: immer irgendwo anders; das naechste Treffen ist in die Staten in New Orleans: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Retreats
    Pema Pera: und danach in Italien
    Pema Pera: Ich war in Koeln fuer eine Woche, in Juli
    Pema Pera: ein ganz schoene Stadt
    Pema Pera: mit eine gute Atmosphaere
    Pema Pera: es hat mir sehr gefallen
    Devi Pearl: gut
    Pema Pera: und ich solte jetzt nach ein Astronomie meeting gehen, auch in SL :-)
    Pema Pera: bis naechtes!
    Devi Pearl: ok
    Pema Pera: tschuess
    Devi Pearl: bye then

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