2010.11.02 13:00 - transhumanism

Retrieved from the autologger.

[13:04] Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Tarmel
[13:05] Tarmel Udimo: Hi Aphrodite:)
[13:05] Tarmel Udimo: How are we this morning... this evening...,:)
[13:06] Aphrodite Macbain: really well thanks. It's 1pm for me actually. I'm on the west coast
[13:06] Tarmel Udimo: ahh nice, makes SL timing easy
[13:06] Aphrodite Macbain: where are you?
[13:07] Tarmel Udimo: Australia - 18hrs ahead
[13:07] Aphrodite Macbain: Oh - so you're in Wednesday!
[13:08] Aphrodite Macbain: which part of Australia?
[13:08] Tarmel Udimo: Yes, I have lots of world clocks on my computer:)
[13:08] Tarmel Udimo: sydney
[13:08] Aphrodite Macbain: Are you the Guardian for this session?
[13:08] Tarmel Udimo: yes
[13:09] Tarmel Udimo: Hi Arch
[13:09] Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Arch, Koya!
[13:09] Archmage Atlantis: Hello Tarmel, Aph :)
[13:10] Archmage Atlantis: Weird effects getting here
[13:10] Aphrodite Macbain: Really?
[13:10] Tarmel Udimo: yes?
[13:10] Archmage Atlantis: Yes
[13:11] Tarmel Udimo: any topics
[13:11] Archmage Atlantis: I had one b4 the weirdness
[13:12] Archmage Atlantis: Maybe it will come back to me :)
[13:12] Tarmel Udimo: ok
[13:12] Aphrodite Macbain: Please describe the weirdness!
[13:12] Archmage Atlantis: Actually, perhaps that is a topic
[13:12] Archmage Atlantis: I attempted to log on to my lome
[13:12] Tarmel Udimo: yes I would like to know the weirdness too
[13:12] Archmage Atlantis: *home
[13:13] Archmage Atlantis: It was unavailable, as was the entire sim
[13:14] Archmage Atlantis: I was dropped into a "herd" of ppl
[13:14] Archmage Atlantis: Half buried
[13:14] Archmage Atlantis: Almost dreamlike
[13:14] Tarmel Udimo: humm interesting
[13:15] Archmage Atlantis: And I was not dressed as I normallyt am
[13:17] Aphrodite Macbain: Very weird!
[13:17] Archmage Atlantis: I teleported to another sim
[13:17] Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
[13:17] Archmage Atlantis: changed clothes, and then was able to come here
[13:17] Tarmel Udimo: wow that's strange...
[13:17] Aphrodite Macbain: did you notice what sim you were in?
[13:17] Archmage Atlantis: As I said, very dreamlike
[13:18] Archmage Atlantis: Not the one I was dropped into, no
[13:18] Aphrodite Macbain: did you feel like yu were with a bunch of fallen angels?
[13:19] Archmage Atlantis: Odd question.....but with some who had fallen from normality
[13:20] Aphrodite Macbain: I had a similar experience. SL put me into a sim with lots of others each piling on top of eachother
[13:21] Tarmel Udimo: hi bruce
[13:21] Archmage Atlantis: I know it is probably a computer glitch in SL, but it felt like a dream or a vision
[13:21] Bruce Mowbray says "Hi" and listens.
[13:21] Archmage Atlantis: I guess the mind (or mine at least) is subject to suggestion
[13:21] Tarmel Udimo: interesting idea, you could join a club that just randomly teleports you to a new location every time..
[13:22] Tarmel Udimo: sounds like reincarnation:)
[13:23] Archmage Atlantis: So does most transhumanist substrate independent thought.......sounds like reicarnation that is
[13:24] Bruce Mowbray: Ever since Arch introduced me to "transhumanism," I've been fascinated by its explorations.
[13:24] Tarmel Udimo: yes and what's transhuman
[13:24] Aphrodite Macbain: plwease trell me more
[13:24] Aphrodite Macbain: tell
[13:24] Archmage Atlantis: What humans will become
[13:25] Aphrodite Macbain: trans =through
[13:25] Aphrodite Macbain: you mean evolution?
[13:25] Archmage Atlantis: In part, yes Aph
[13:26] Bruce Mowbray: Transhumanism is an international intellectual and cultural movement supporting the use of science and technology to improve human mental and physical characteristics and capacities.
[13:26] Bruce Mowbray: [unquote from the Wikipedia]
[13:27] Tarmel Udimo: rather than just the use of one's inner capacities to evolve
[13:27] Archmage Atlantis: We are at a crossroads, imo, the gift to travel to the stars, to manipulate our genome
[13:27] Aphrodite Macbain: sounds like it covers a multitude of disciplines. who is leading this movement?
[13:27] Bruce Mowbray: The movement regards aspects of the human condition, such as disability, suffering, disease, aging, and involuntary death as unnecessary and undesirable.
[13:27] Bruce Mowbray: The movement regards aspects of the human condition, such as disability, suffering, disease, aging, and involuntary death as unnecessary and undesirable.
[13:27] Bruce Mowbray: ooops -- sry.
[13:28] Bruce Mowbray: "involuntary death" is unnecessary and undesirable.
[13:28] Aphrodite Macbain: it believes death is unnecessary?
[13:28] Bruce Mowbray: yes.
[13:28] Aphrodite Macbain: Hmmm
[13:29] Aphrodite Macbain: where would we put all the people - in space? Does it believe in unlimited growth?
[13:29] Archmage Atlantis: Reincarnation is a similar concept......just an earlier one
[13:29] Archmage Atlantis: I can only speak for myself
[13:29] Bruce Mowbray: Transhumanists feel that involuntary death can be transcended through technology.
[13:29] Aphrodite Macbain: Oh so death but reincarnation in this world
[13:29] Aphrodite Macbain: Hmmm
[13:31] Archmage Atlantis: substrate independent ......the term........means existence as and entity without dependence on a body.........As a computer replica, in a sense.....but in my mind
[13:31] Archmage Atlantis: that requires a soul
[13:32] Aphrodite Macbain: Sounds like something william gibson would be interested in
[13:32] Archmage Atlantis: yes, aph, agree
[13:33] Tarmel Udimo: yes and there's nothing wrong with wanting to continue forever except...
[13:33] Bruce Mowbray: Yes, William Gibson is one of the main fiction writers who espouses transhumanist explorations.
[13:33] Aphrodite Macbain: I love his books
[13:33] Aphrodite Macbain: I'd HATE to continue for ever
[13:33] Tarmel Udimo: the fct that there is an ending hopefully gives us some perspective on the process of living and what it means to be human
[13:34] Bruce Mowbray: The simplest prosthetic device is also an example of transhumanism.
[13:34] Archmage Atlantis: I'm not sure I would want to either, Aphrodite
[13:34] Bruce Mowbray: a pair of eyeglasses, for example.
[13:34] Aphrodite Macbain: They are transhumanist?
[13:34] Bruce Mowbray: the use of technology to extend human capacities...
[13:34] Archmage Atlantis: The responsibility of living forever, that is huge
[13:34] Aphrodite Macbain: Then so are clothes
[13:35] Archmage Atlantis: Yes clothes are
[13:35] Aphrodite Macbain: are clothes technology I wonder
[13:35] Bruce Mowbray: If one's clothes do indeed extend her capacities, then yes.
[13:35] Aphrodite Macbain: Is medicine?
[13:35] Archmage Atlantis: They are beyond what exists (or perhaps is expressed) in the current human genome
[13:36] Aphrodite Macbain: That's a universe of stuff
[13:36] Bruce Mowbray: example: a blind person could wear a shirt that detects objects in the immediate vicinity -- and conveys that information to the individual.
[13:36] Tarmel Udimo: humm so rather than just extend perhaps we can plant a cell that erdicates stupidty:)
[13:36] Tarmel Udimo: and fear:)
[13:36] Aphrodite Macbain: he he
[13:36] Tarmel Udimo: that would be very good...
[13:36] Archmage Atlantis: Or, new eyes could be grown for the blind person
[13:36] Tarmel Udimo: by that I mean paranoid fear not survival instinct fear
[13:36] Bruce Mowbray: indeed, Arch...
[13:36] Aphrodite Macbain: You're imagining all the good things that could come out of it
[13:36] Archmage Atlantis: Even eyes that see into the ultraviolet and the infrared
[13:37] Bruce Mowbray: My personal 'take' on the transhumanist movement involves the conveying of information.
[13:37] Archmage Atlantis: Yes, there could be many difficult things
[13:37] Tarmel Udimo: yes I think technology will get us there eventually I am sure... if it hasn't already started being developed in the military
[13:37] Tarmel Udimo: robot like soliders who have no humane qualities
[13:38] Archmage Atlantis: That is why ethics is my favorite subject :)
[13:38] Tarmel Udimo: yes
[13:38] Tarmel Udimo: how does one stay on the humane side
[13:38] Aphrodite Macbain: new technology replaces old technology and fixes what's wrong with the old, only to create new problems
[13:38] Bruce Mowbray: listens for more from Arch regarding ethics and transhumanism.
[13:39] Archmage Atlantis: Put me on the spot, will you friend Bruce
[13:39] Archmage Atlantis: :)
[13:39] Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
[13:39] Tarmel Udimo: :)
[13:39] Bruce Mowbray: I've been reading some things about ethics and transhumanism on some of the blogs --
[13:39] Aphrodite Macbain: Arch, don't you think humans improving their own qualities by themselves is more enduring and valuable that relying on technology to fix things?
[13:40] Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce - what have you read?
[13:40] Tarmel Udimo: good point I think this needs to happen simultanously
[13:40] Bruce Mowbray: Transhumanists engage in interdisciplinary approaches to understanding and evaluating possibilities for overcoming biological limitations. They draw on futurology and various fields of ethics such as bioethics, infoethics, nanoethics, neuroethics, roboethics, and technoethics mainly but not exclusively from a philosophically utilitarian, socially progressive, politically and economically liberal perspective.
[13:40] Aphrodite Macbain: Nice quote - where is that from Bruce?
[13:40] Archmage Atlantis: Wow......lot of word
[13:40] Bruce Mowbray: "various fields of ethics...."
[13:40] Bruce Mowbray: from the Wikipedia.
[13:41] Aphrodite Macbain: Handy thing that.
[13:41] Bruce Mowbray: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
[13:41] Tarmel Udimo: nods
[13:42] Tarmel Udimo: so its all inclusive
[13:42] Bruce Mowbray: but the point is --- every new invention involves risks, and therefore involves ethics in its human applications.
[13:42] Tarmel Udimo: true
[13:42] Bruce Mowbray: Second Life, for example.
[13:43] Aphrodite Macbain: BTW MayTx Bruce! May I draw all your attention to the sign I just posted. We are proposing creativity using new technology- transformative technology have posted.
[13:43] Aphrodite Macbain: oops
[13:43] Aphrodite Macbain: Hope that makes sense
[13:43] Bruce Mowbray: Where is your new sign?
[13:43] Aphrodite Macbain: To your right
[13:44] Aphrodite Macbain: Sort of behind Tarmel
[13:44] Bruce Mowbray: It is glowing so brightly that I can't read whatever it says.
[13:44] Archmage Atlantis: I see it, but no pictures or words
[13:44] Aphrodite Macbain: Weird.
[13:44] Tarmel Udimo: sorry to inetrupt but I have to log out now
[13:44] Aphrodite Macbain: I see it clearly.
[13:44] Archmage Atlantis: Bye Tarmel:)
[13:44] Tarmel Udimo: I have cliamed the log and will post it - early morning meeting
[13:45] Bruce Mowbray: "Blinding Light" -- a religious allusion?
[13:45] Tarmel Udimo: (its been a good session though tks
[13:45] Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Tarmel!
[13:45] Archmage Atlantis: Blessings and Namaste
[13:45] Archmage Atlantis: Now I see the words
[13:45] Aphrodite Macbain: Is that better. There's no light on it at all
[13:45] Bruce Mowbray: yes -- Good!
[13:46] Bruce Mowbray: can you move the texture just a wee bit to the left?
[13:46] Aphrodite Macbain: Arch- can you read it yet?
[13:46] Aphrodite Macbain: No - I can't I'm afraid.
[13:46] Archmage Atlantis: Yes, not being a Guardian, I will listen from the sidelines
[13:46] Aphrodite Macbain: or don't know how
[13:46] Bruce Mowbray: ok. np -- anyone should be able to see the word "the"
[13:47] Archmage Atlantis: It says
[13:47] Archmage Atlantis: Drop what you have to see what you are....as an avatar
[13:48] Aphrodite Macbain: Can you read the next line?
[13:48] Archmage Atlantis: Yes
[13:48] Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bertram
[13:48] Bruce Mowbray: I'm a bit confused, though, --- Does this mean we can attach things to our avi's -- as I have just done?
[13:48] Bertram Jacobus: hy aph bruce and arch :-)
[13:48] Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bert.
[13:48] Archmage Atlantis: an invitation to exploer for ourselves what we really are
[13:49] Aphrodite Macbain: and transform your avatar into that.
[13:49] Bertram Jacobus: hey sartre ! :-)
[13:49] Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce is showing off what he made!
[13:49] Bruce Mowbray: so. . . . It's OK to attach stuff to our avi's?
[13:49] Bruce Mowbray: or not?
[13:50] Aphrodite Macbain: a transhuman experiment
[13:50] Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Aph -- with this transformation, I create my own shade and oxygen.
[13:50] Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose so. Bleu didn't protest on Sunday
[13:50] Aphrodite Macbain: hah ha
[13:50] Archmage Atlantis: My thoughts, and only mine.......prims are stilll limited......if an attachment uses a lot of prims, it prevents others from being in the moment
[13:50] Bertram Jacobus: to me also the text sounds as if we should be naked ... hm
[13:51] Aphrodite Macbain: No transformed. Let me show you what I did to myself
[13:51] Bruce Mowbray: Arch is raising the "ethics" question. . . Tinely!
[13:51] Bruce Mowbray: timely*
[13:52] Aphrodite Macbain: Ta daaa
[13:52] Bruce Mowbray: [`·.] APPLAUSE!! [.·´]
[13:52] Aphrodite Macbain: I'm not naked - I'm water and energy
[13:53] Bruce Mowbray: Great, Aph. My tree and your avi should get along well.
[13:53] Bertram Jacobus: ah - i saw that when i was visiting the two bleus and you at the art area some days ago - right aph ?
[13:53] Aphrodite Macbain: Right - we can nourish each other
[13:53] Aphrodite Macbain: Right Bert!
[13:54] Archmage Atlantis: I think I see why I was dressed the way I was before
[13:54] Aphrodite Macbain: So we throw the challenge to you Bert and Arch
[13:54] Aphrodite Macbain: want to dance?
[13:55] Aphrodite Macbain: what a pair of show offs!
[13:55] Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
[13:56] Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce- your roots are showing
[13:56] Bruce Mowbray: cool, Arch!
[13:56] Bertram Jacobus: sry - i´m impressed and nearly a bit frightened from so much creativity (!) ...
[13:57] Aphrodite Macbain: Hey arch. Looks like you're on to something
[13:57] Archmage Atlantis: The next line says "Guardians are invited to design their avatars
[13:57] Archmage Atlantis: illustrating the PaB theme of "dop what you have
[13:57] Archmage Atlantis: *drop
[13:57] Archmage Atlantis: to see who you are."
[13:58] Archmage Atlantis: The next line is
[13:58] Archmage Atlantis: "Create an art piece using ONLY your avatar"
[13:59] Bruce Mowbray: a wee confusing, yes.
[13:59] Bruce Mowbray: that's why I asked if we could attach stuff to our avi's.
[14:00] Archmage Atlantis: I don't think there is anyone to ask
[14:00] Bruce Mowbray: good point, Arch.
[14:01] Aphrodite Macbain: Don't get too chilly Arch
[14:01] Bruce Mowbray: Greeting, Sartre.
[14:01] Sartre Placebo: hey everoyne
[14:02] Bertram Jacobus: hey sartre again ! ;-)
[14:02] Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Sartre
[14:03] Bruce Mowbray: How do you feel about transhumanist ethics, Mr. Placebo?
[14:04] Sartre Placebo: well
[14:04] Sartre Placebo: *googles for transhumanist ethics*
[14:04] Bruce Mowbray listens intently.
[14:04] Bruce Mowbray: the use of technology to extend human capacities...
[14:05] Bruce Mowbray: even to transcending "involuntary death"
[14:05] Aphrodite Macbain: I'm afraid I'm am still fighting the flue so can't give the subject the attention it needs
[14:05] Aphrodite Macbain: I'll say goodbye for now
[14:05] Sartre Placebo: well, i am a bit stuck in the issue in how far human beings are or are suppost to be egaliterian
[14:05] Bruce Mowbray: I think I might have given Aph the flu -- because I am also fighting it.
[14:05] Archmage Atlantis: Yea, I had my flu shots today
[14:05] Sartre Placebo: bye aph
[14:05] Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
[14:05] Sartre Placebo: it´s a bt tricky since who´s gaining advantage from thetechnological augmentations
[14:05] Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Satre, Bruce, Arcg, Bert
[14:05] Bertram Jacobus: bye aph *wave*
[14:05] Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Aph.
[14:05] Archmage Atlantis: In real life
[14:06] Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
[14:06] Aphrodite Macbain: Bye!
[14:06] Sartre Placebo: is every being equal to another ?
[14:06] Archmage Atlantis: Via con Dios, Aph
[14:06] Bruce Mowbray: good point, Sartre.
[14:06] Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Aph.
[14:07] Bruce Mowbray: are you implying that everyone should have equal access to technologies and information, Sartre?
[14:07] Sartre Placebo: i am in a struggle with the modern world about technologie i have the feeling that as an individual you don´t have to offer much
[14:07] Archmage Atlantis: If I may offer my thoughts, Sartre.......equal in value.....not equal in effect
[14:07] Sartre Placebo: yes, i am kind of egaliterian in my belives
[14:07] Sartre Placebo: belief
[14:08] Bertram Jacobus: nicely expressed arch !
[14:08] Sartre Placebo: but what are the ontogenetical factors that make us who we are ?
[14:08] Sartre Placebo: in which class are we raised
[14:08] Sartre Placebo: how do ppl engage technolige with whom we´re surrounded bye
[14:08] Bertram Jacobus: my be i heared it already before but hadn´t been able to reproduce. short and true. (arch) :-)
[14:08] Archmage Atlantis: I think Bert may have answers for you Sartre
[14:09] Sartre Placebo: what are we going to learn implicitly, i have more questions then answers
[14:09] Sartre Placebo: pls pert
[14:09] Sartre Placebo: bert
[14:09] Sartre Placebo: enlighten me without or with sugarmustard on ur toe at full moon :)
[14:09] Bertram Jacobus: no arch. you said already what i find neccessairy - why do you think, i had answers, plz (!?) ...
[14:10] Archmage Atlantis: Because I do
[14:10] Archmage Atlantis: No excuses
[14:10] Archmage Atlantis: It is what I felt
[14:10] Bertram Jacobus: may be i could express it in german and talk about it, but don´t feel myself able for that in english. sry plz all
[14:11] Bertram Jacobus: correct myself : not "it", may be better "something" - could discuss, consider and such ...
[14:11] Archmage Atlantis: Then say it in german for those who read this log
[14:11] Bertram Jacobus: first, i would try to think about the questions again and would ask which exactly the problems here were ...
[14:11] Bruce Mowbray: "answers" is different from "feelings" and/or "opinions" --- I think that transhumanism is opening us all up to "everywhereness" -- and to the possibility of a multiplicity of answers for virtually every question.
[14:13] Bertram Jacobus: and i would ask for simple words - i a way like : pls. sartre, could you tell me in evryday language what the problems and questions here are ? (which arch did not answer yet) ... ;-)
[14:13] Bruce Mowbray: The whole idea of "answers" may need to be thrown out.
[14:13] Bruce Mowbray listens to what the "problems and questions" might be.
[14:14] Bruce Mowbray: examples. . . . Second Life presents us all with "everywhereness" -- through technology.
[14:15] Bruce Mowbray: However, this also presents some serious ethical questions.
[14:16] Archmage Atlantis: I'm going to have to go
[14:16] Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Arch. Enjoyed your input today.
[14:16] Archmage Atlantis: Please continue to talk
[14:16] Sartre Placebo: night arch
[14:16] Bertram Jacobus: bye arch - have a good time plz ! :-)
[14:16] Sartre Placebo: well, i will also leave, night everyone
[14:16] Bruce Mowbray: nice pants!
[14:17] Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Sartre.
[14:17] Bertram Jacobus: good nite yaku - same : wish you a nice time !
[14:17] Bruce Mowbray: Gosh he leave fast!
[14:17] Bertram Jacobus: oops - sartre i wantetd to write lol
[14:17] Bruce Mowbray: leaves*
[14:17] Bertram Jacobus: he does always so. so i say at least bye for the log ;-)
[14:18] Bertram Jacobus: which ethical problems did you mean bruce ?
[14:19] Bruce Mowbray: Well, as regards SL, - - - there are problems of abuse, etc. and these have had to be dealt with.
[14:19] Bruce Mowbray: What truly fascinates me, though, is how ethical systems seem to EMERGE in different sims -- without there being "rules"
[14:20] Bertram Jacobus: i think, ethics lives in most people ...
[14:20] Bruce Mowbray: There have been studies by anthropologists about how ethics emerges in SL.
[14:20] Bertram Jacobus: and so also emerges everywhere ...
[14:20] Bruce Mowbray: yes!
[14:22] Bertram Jacobus: whereas i once read a research that for some people, it was tested on people who did heavy things and who were in prison therefore - those ethics weren´t inside them (!) - but that are quite seldom exceptions, luckily ...
[14:23] Bruce Mowbray: Ohhh. . . . but there are very "real" ethical systems inside prisons. (I used to teach in one for eight years, and one of my best friends has been in prison since 1982.)
[14:26] Bruce Mowbray: One of the strongest "codes" in prison is DO NOT TURN ANOTHER PRISONER IN to the authorities for any reason.
[14:27] Bruce Mowbray: Violation of that rule has cost many an inmate his life.
[14:27] Bruce Mowbray: Here comes Boxy.
[14:27] Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Alfred!
[14:28] Bertram Jacobus: hey alfred :-)
[14:29] Bruce Mowbray: does the cat have your tongue today, Al?
[14:31] Alfred Kelberry: hey
[14:31] Alfred Kelberry: oh, it's way past the session time
[14:31] Alfred Kelberry: what cat?
[14:31] Bruce Mowbray: Alfred and Bert, I need to go now -- This is a big day in America - - Elections. And I'm very worried that all of the people I voted for were defeated.
[14:31] Bruce Mowbray: May you both be well and happy.
[14:31] Alfred Kelberry: bruce - good luck! :)
[14:32] Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
[14:32] Bruce Mowbray: thanks.
[14:33] Alfred Kelberry: hmm, the poster isn't aligned properly
[14:34] Bertram Jacobus: poster ? not alligned properly ? why not ? :-)
[14:34] Alfred Kelberry: "create an art piece using only your av"... hmm, i'm already an art :)
[14:34] Alfred Kelberry: the text is cut on the right
[14:34] Bertram Jacobus: (and for the log : bye bruce) sry ...
[14:34] Bertram Jacobus: ah i see
[14:35] Alfred Kelberry: interesting how we're aware of the log :)
[14:35] Bertram Jacobus: yes ! ... :-)
[14:35] Alfred Kelberry: i wonder if the discussion would be different without it
[14:35] Bertram Jacobus: but bad that the time changing thing twice a year mixes up and confuses very much lol
[14:35] Alfred Kelberry: or without the knowledge of the log being present :)
[14:36] Alfred Kelberry: ah, it's ok
[14:36] Alfred Kelberry: i don't mind one hour change
[14:37] Alfred Kelberry: people travel all the time through various timezones and it's fine. here, one hour change and everyone is annoyed :)
[14:37] Bertram Jacobus: sure it would. may be sometimes it´s forgotten that a log happens here. but may be even then the unconcious part of us influences the behaviour ...
[14:37] Alfred Kelberry: yes, our habitual state
[14:38] Alfred Kelberry: maybe we should try to remove the text saying "recording"?
[14:38] Alfred Kelberry: or change it
[14:38] Alfred Kelberry: to something less... alert :)
[14:38] Alfred Kelberry: like "observing" :)
[14:39] Alfred Kelberry: i'd like it better
[14:39] Bertram Jacobus: hehe. no : i think, it´s a matter of fairness and ethic to tell the people that it is handled like that here ... ;-)
[14:39] Alfred Kelberry: most people who attend the session know that
[14:40] Alfred Kelberry: and we always warn the new comers
[14:40] Bertram Jacobus: yes. and that´s why that is especially for new people who arise here
[14:40] Alfred Kelberry: yes, we warn then in chat :)
[14:40] Alfred Kelberry: *them
[14:41] Bertram Jacobus: hmmm - then you have to ask or to porpose that to the takin respons people here ... *g*
[14:41] Alfred Kelberry: hehe
[14:41] Alfred Kelberry: woly? :)
[14:42] Bertram Jacobus: pema - eos. woly, fael - all - yes ... all who speak good english (so not me) :-)
[14:42] Alfred Kelberry: i wouldn't guess either you're american or someone else :)
[14:43] Alfred Kelberry: sadly, woly isn't here
[14:43] Bertram Jacobus: righty right - but the time for the session is already over / gone (!) lol
[14:44] Alfred Kelberry: she adds sweetness into the conversation :)
[14:44] Alfred Kelberry: ah, yes
[14:44] Alfred Kelberry: fair point
[14:44] Alfred Kelberry: sorry, rl
[14:44] Bertram Jacobus: sl = rl too ! ;-)
[14:49] Bertram Jacobus: i think i´ll leave - may be all beings be happy plz and bye and ty alf ! *wave* ...