2010.11.10 07:00 - Talking about dreams

The Guardian for this meeting was Gaya Ethaniel. The comments are by Gaya Ethaniel.

Riddle Sideways: Good Morning Blub (and Bruce)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bruce and Riddle :)
Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Riddle -- I'm just finishing up a RL phone call. . . [just a minute . . . ]
Riddle Sideways: Hi Gaya. Long time no chat
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes lovely to see you :D
Gaya Ethaniel: Have you been well?
Riddle Sideways: about the same. And you
Gaya Ethaniel: :) I'm good thanks.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bert :)
Bertram Jacobus: hey gaya riddle and bruce :-)
Riddle Sideways: Morning Bert
Bertram Jacobus: hehe - afternoon here - but nice ava riddle ! i love the tinies ! ... :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Cute :)
Riddle Sideways: sorry. memory did not serve well about your time zone
Bertram Jacobus: hey : np at all ! :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Riddle Sideways: seems my other Avi met with an editing situation
Bertram Jacobus: shall i switch off that gesture or not ... ? ... ;-)
Riddle Sideways: not (is ok)
Gaya Ethaniel: Whatever suits you Bert :)
Bertram Jacobus: ah. yes. nice. thanxx gaya :-)
Bertram Jacobus: and riddle - lol - sry - was searching the word "ponder" - so distracted ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Though not those with lots of chat spams :P
Riddle Sideways: funny, after losing daylight saving time in RL it is now light outside and SL is dark.
Bertram Jacobus: chat spam ? like ... let me check - brb :o)
Gaya Ethaniel: True, used to be lighter.
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Bertram Jacobus: something like this ? :
Bertram Jacobus: |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
Bertram Jacobus: |...........Party TRUCK♪.....| ||'|";, ___.
Bertram Jacobus: |_..._...__________===|=||_|__|..., ] -
Bertram Jacobus: "(@)'(@)"""''"****|(@)(@)****''(@)
Bertram Jacobus: _.;:+*'`'*+:;..;:+*'`'*+:;..;:+*'`'*+:;..;:+*'`'*+:;.
Riddle Sideways: Gaya, you are doing Kira/Dream stuff now
Gaya Ethaniel: heh shouldn't have tempted you ... :P
Bertram Jacobus: lol sry
Riddle Sideways: yes, that would be spam
Bertram Jacobus: hehe - won´t do it anymore
Gaya Ethaniel: That's for the last Wednesday of each month :)
Bertram Jacobus: try to be a good boy now :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks :P
Bertram Jacobus: yvw
Gaya Ethaniel: Having any good dreams to share lately Riddle?
Bertram Jacobus: good and boaring ... *g*
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sensing Christmas stresses around.
Riddle Sideways: Thanksgiving stress
Gaya Ethaniel: oh is that turkey?
Riddle Sideways: for many
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... must be that then :P
Riddle Sideways: attempting to make room in house for 22 guests
Gaya Ethaniel: wow
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Visitor - do I still have to remove your name from logs?
Riddle Sideways: and Dreams... don't talk to me about dreams
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :)
Bertram Jacobus: hey eliza ! :-)
Riddle Sideways: Hi Eliza
Gaya Ethaniel: aw Riddle ...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :)
Bertram Jacobus: nice outfit today (again) ! ... :-)

--BELL--

Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sorry to say this out loud but your persistent request to remove your name/comments despite coming here all the time bothers me and take up extra time Visitor.
Gaya Ethaniel: And you are unwilling to make an alt ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Weird guy ...
Riddle Sideways: does not bother me
Gaya Ethaniel: He talks in IMs ...
Eliza Madrigal: It has been a little strange feeling for some guardians ...
Riddle Sideways: but, making an alt might be a good answer
Gaya Ethaniel: Comes and never says hi either ...
Riddle Sideways: make an alt person and join as that alt
Gaya Ethaniel: I'd suggested many times and his answer is no for that too.
Gaya Ethaniel: He complains that I complained :(
Lugh Fehr: ola
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Lugh :)
Riddle Sideways: Hi Lugh. More nice outfils
Riddle Sideways: how big a closet of outfits do you have
Lugh Fehr: tnx free , free , and cheap hehe
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lugh
Gaya Ethaniel: That's a notecard about the group in case this is your first visit Lugh.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lugh Fehr: tnx :)
Gaya Ethaniel: We post our chat logs online, is it ok to record your name and comments?
Riddle Sideways: Lugh, has been here lots
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok :)
Lugh Fehr: hehhe yeah im becoming an addict of this place hehe
Eliza Madrigal: it happens... hah
Bertram Jacobus: hey lugh - sry - was distracted ... :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Riddle Sideways: on a diff topic. It might be dreaming time person is rebelling against time chapter study person
Lugh Fehr: hey :)
Gaya Ethaniel: What do you mean Riddle?
Riddle Sideways: RL person is trying to be quiet. Dream person is screaming
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...
Riddle Sideways: lots and lots of dreams
Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps writing reports would help?
Riddle Sideways: no :)
Gaya Ethaniel: heheh
Lugh Fehr: well free cinema
Lugh Fehr: enjoy it
Gaya Ethaniel: Now I'm curious ... what kind of dreams ...
Riddle Sideways: sorry, can't help making jokes
Lugh Fehr: some horror some drama some love stories
Riddle Sideways: yep
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Riddle Sideways: a noisy goose/swan. had to put balloon over it's bill
Riddle Sideways: has the dream workshop concluded what causes dreams?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh goodness...
Eliza Madrigal: what a question Riddle. :)
Riddle Sideways: almost as good as the what causes laughter question yesterday
Bertram Jacobus giggles a bit ... ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: yeah ! :-)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, right up there
Bertram Jacobus: almost ... ;-)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think the circle has been a good illustration of a kind of letting go of our thinking that dreams are always about 'us alone' though...
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Gaya Ethaniel: It's nice to have an opportunity to share dreams ... kind of a unique way of sharing too.
Lugh Fehr: well dreams are very much life
Lugh Fehr: like*
Gaya Ethaniel: like ... what?
Gaya Ethaniel: like life?
Lugh Fehr: life yes
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
Eliza Madrigal: I was reading over a snippet of the ways of knowing logs where we were talking about makyo....
Gaya Ethaniel: ah yes I remember :)
Eliza Madrigal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makyo
Eliza Madrigal: thinking of how we have this material presented... and we are continually reading *into* it... interpreting...
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes friendly stories sometimes not so much so
Gaya Ethaniel: There's a limit to 'reading into' I think.
Eliza Madrigal: yes

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: so the dream circle is sometimes like wall gazing... releasing attachment
Eliza Madrigal: but not as a doing... letting come and go and something 'else' sometimes shows up...
Eliza Madrigal: strange to describe :)
Bruce Mowbray has finally joined the circle -- A friend needed to talk in RL.
Bertram Jacobus: hey bruce ! *wave* ... :-)
Bruce Mowbray waves at everyone.
Riddle Sideways: WB
Gaya Ethaniel: I can't remember but we did talk about dreams at WoK ... with lojong wasn't it?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
Bruce Mowbray: talking about Dream Circle?
Lugh Fehr: in the dream you are both you and the other stuff in it ... shows how much we are in love whit suffering when most of our dreams are suffering
Eliza Madrigal: yes and before lojong too... I think we were led to lojong through the dream discussion actually
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...
Eliza Madrigal: in love with suffering.... hmmm
Gaya Ethaniel: In life too I guess Lugh ...
Lugh Fehr: yep
Lugh Fehr: all that is is a choice
Lugh Fehr: i think...
Gaya Ethaniel: You mean choosing a perspective?
Lugh Fehr: the perspective is the mind it self
Bertram Jacobus: can you say more lugh ?
Eliza Madrigal: I like the idea of different kinds of dreaming... seems to extend to the way we live too... sometimes a dream works out stuff, sometimes it is part of sharing something larger, etc. Maybe both are true simultaneously as well :)
Bertram Jacobus: i have only very little links and accesses to ma dreams ... and mostly what i remember seems not to be very interesting ... hm -
Bruce Mowbray: Sometimes my dreams seem to be preparing me for challenging experiences in waking life.
Bruce Mowbray: sort of like training rehearsals....
Eliza Madrigal: hmm, nods
Gaya Ethaniel: I can relate to that Bruce though mine tends to be revealing fear/stress of those upcoming challenges.
Eliza Madrigal: funny that beings must sleep though.... sort of implies a demand giving 'back' some kind of energy for a while...
Riddle Sideways: mostly the dreams are of "other". Not me. Not of this current RL
Lugh Fehr: and even when we are awake we dream... we get angry at someone and we make a fake conversation whit him in our mind thats dreaming and we even get the thrill of it
Gaya Ethaniel: Which other Riddle?
Eliza Madrigal: interesting Riddle, so it is like a pattern lately
Bruce Mowbray: @Gaya - Yes, and as we dram our way through the stress and fear, we are being prepared (perhaps) for meeting such challenges in waking life.
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true Lugh, nice point... always dreaming
Lugh Fehr: well hoe do you define a dream?
Lugh Fehr: how*
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Lugh Fehr: hehhe
Bruce Mowbray: concerning "waking dreams" -- have you sometimes felt a "vision" of something just about to happen -- and been able to act on that vision to save your life, or to help someone else through danger...?
Riddle Sideways: yes
Bruce Mowbray: sort of like a visit from a guardian angel.
Eliza Madrigal: that speaks to Riddle's sense of dreaming self....
Eliza Madrigal: who may live in a different sort of universe with different 'rules'....
Eliza Madrigal: and may have friends :)
Lugh Fehr: could they just be from the subconscious? making wise calculations you cant do?
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) subconscious paints funny pictures
Lugh Fehr: and they appear as angels to penetrate the mind

--BELL--

Gaya Ethaniel: Funny pictures :P
Eliza Madrigal: my feeling is of something beyond than subconscious, but we seem to have a flashlight for that realm :)
Riddle Sideways: guess that I draw a line in the sand dividing dreams into waking and sleeping
Riddle Sideways: day dreams and calculation and plotting on one side
Riddle Sideways: very day to day RL like stuff
Lugh Fehr: do you think their all the same ridd?
Gaya Ethaniel: But most of the time, we make up things in waking as we do while sleeping.
Bruce Mowbray: Was it you, Bert (or perhaps it was Qt) who said yesterday that there are "foreground thoughts" and "background thoughts" happening all the time in our minds. . . like a computer that's doing operations that we cannot see - although we are watching the "forefront" things on the monitor. . . ?
Riddle Sideways: yes, probably all the same. Yes, probably completely different
Bertram Jacobus: no, that was not me bruce
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Qt, then.
Bruce Mowbray: using the computer as model of the brain/mind.
Bruce Mowbray: I'm sure that my mind as several "minds" of its own.
Lugh Fehr: i think all mid is a dream because mind can only think of future and past things that do not exist so the are dreams
Bertram Jacobus: yes . he works in that business ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: there are physicists who DO see the whole universe as a simulation like SL...
Bertram Jacobus: whaow lugh
Eliza Madrigal: but we're getting a little Inception here..heheh
Bruce Mowbray: mmmmmm. So, Lugh, what does "presence" mean?
Eliza Madrigal: sorry to run, wonderful conversation but my son wasn't feeling well again and is just now ready for school (2 hrs late)
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day Eliza :)
Lugh Fehr: byebye eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Everyone
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Eliza. . . Hoping your son feels better soon.
Riddle Sideways: so lugh has good point. Time does not exist. we dream of past and future
Lugh Fehr: presence is the consciousness
Lugh Fehr: either presins in the mind or the world
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Alfred.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Alfred :)
Bertram Jacobus: hey alfi ! :-)
Riddle Sideways: Hi Alf
Lugh Fehr: heheh hey alfred nice av
Lugh Fehr: really nice av
Bruce Mowbray: In the Ways of Knowing group this week, we are exploring Compassion as one of the 4 immeasurables.
Gaya Ethaniel: mhm
Lugh Fehr: what are the other 3?
Bruce Mowbray: and Compassion requires presence. . . So, I'm wondering how lugh would deal with that sort of presence, if all the mind can conjure up is "past" and "future."
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Bruce Mowbray: consciousness. . . equals . . . presence??
Alfred Kelberry: ah, sorry, berty :)
Bertram Jacobus: np at all alf :-)
Alfred Kelberry: *notices riddle the little elephant* :)
Lugh Fehr: compassion for the mind in the land of mind compassion for the world in the world of matter
Bruce Mowbray: The other three are Loving Kindness, Equanimity, and Joy.
Alfred Kelberry: not just "kindness"?
Bruce Mowbray: "Compassion for the mind" -- a wonderful concept. . .
Gaya Ethaniel: It was suggested we consider loving-kindness together and compassion if someone wants to.
Bruce Mowbray: yes, taking those two together this week,,
Lugh Fehr: what exactly is loving kindness
Lugh Fehr: ?
Bertram Jacobus: love i guess (?)
Gaya Ethaniel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metta
Lugh Fehr: ahh oki
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that one
Riddle Sideways: ya gotta love that wikipedia, it knows everything
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Lugh Fehr: heheh
Alfred Kelberry: i think maybe metta is a suitable name for it :)
Bruce Mowbray: Loving kindness is the spring sunshine that warms the ground so that grass and flowers can grow (a quote from Ken McLeod).
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Alfred Kelberry: neat
Lugh Fehr: :)
Alfred Kelberry: happens only once a year...
Bruce Mowbray: Loving kindness radiates -- like the run - - to warm the world.
Gaya Ethaniel: A nice image :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I have to go now. Please feel free to stay on :) Have a good day.
Lugh Fehr: byebye
Riddle Sideways: bye Gaya
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Gaya.
Alfred Kelberry: aww, bunny left :/
Lugh Fehr: why do you thick compassion and loving kindness are infinite?

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: cute elephant
Bertram Jacobus: i have the impression, everything may be infinite finally , in microcosm as well as in macrocosm ...
Riddle Sideways: I am not CUTE. I am the great and mighty 123 ton elephant
Bruce Mowbray: There is no limit to the depth or scope of the Immeasureables.
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Bertram Jacobus: lool riddle sry :o)))
Riddle Sideways: :D
Bruce Mowbray: They do not function in the service of habituated patterns. . . (They are free - by nature.)
Alfred Kelberry: elephant in the room :)
Lugh Fehr: nice way to put it
Bruce Mowbray wonders if Riddle will roll over in my direction.
Lugh Fehr: heheh
Riddle Sideways: so you will be taking the measure of the immeasurables in WoK
Bruce Mowbray: A gorgeous fall day here in Ohio - - Need to get outside to do farm chores now.
Bruce Mowbray: May you all have a happy day.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
Lugh Fehr: you too cool farming
Riddle Sideways: yes, must go bye. thanks all
Bertram Jacobus: bye bruce ty same same :-)
Lugh Fehr: byebye