The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Alfred Kelberry, myself and another person who didn't want their conversation recorded.

Night owls and Aphrodite's non - rezzing

Alfred Kelberry: zen :)
Alfred Kelberry: alone?
Zen Arado: Hi Alfred:)
Zen Arado: no - someone else is here but doesn't want comments recorded
Alfred Kelberry: yes, right. i remember :)
Alfred Kelberry: how are you?
Alfred Kelberry: relaxing?
Zen Arado: pretty good and you?
Alfred Kelberry: *listens to the birds singing*
Alfred Kelberry: i'm good
Zen Arado: a bit tired these cold dark mornings
Alfred Kelberry: popped in to see if anyone is here at this hour
Zen Arado: but coming around slowly :)
Alfred Kelberry: good :)
Alfred Kelberry: sadly, aph is still trapped :/
Zen Arado: we were talking about meditation
Zen Arado: I see her
Zen Arado: on the map
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i talked to gilles beside her yesterday
Alfred Kelberry: is anything being done about it?
Alfred Kelberry: as i understand the sim should be restarted
Zen Arado: I haven't heard - it is hard to contact Linden and co
Alfred Kelberry: :/
Alfred Kelberry: well.. aph, if you read this, we miss you and hope it'll be resolved soon
Zen Arado: but I never heard this happening to anyone else
Alfred Kelberry: bruce
Zen Arado: she still attends sessins as an alt
Alfred Kelberry: oh! really?
Alfred Kelberry: what's her name?
Alfred Kelberry: i never noticed
Zen Arado: she has a couple at least
Alfred Kelberry: ah...
Zen Arado: I can't remember but she usually tells us
Alfred Kelberry: ok
Alfred Kelberry: good to know she has access
Alfred Kelberry: sorry, i interrupted you...

Meditation and MBSR

Alfred Kelberry: you were saying about meditation
Zen Arado: we were talking about MBSR
Zen Arado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindful...ress_reduction
Alfred Kelberry: oh...
Zen Arado: and how I got started on meditation practice
Alfred Kelberry: finding inner self?
Zen Arado: well...some start it to clam the mkind
Zen Arado: and to deal with depression and other stress related didorders
Alfred Kelberry: how long have you been doing it?
Zen Arado: about 6 years
Zen Arado: but I got into it through getting interseted in zen
Alfred Kelberry: wow
Zen Arado: it is a short time in meditation Alf :)
Zen Arado: you practice meditation Alf?
Alfred Kelberry: so, it's basically mindfulness practice (e.g. vipassana) with a western trait?
Alfred Kelberry: um... yes, not regulary, though
Zen Arado: the guy who started it was a zen practitioner and thought meditation might help people in the hospital where he worked
Alfred Kelberry: i find that simple awareness in the moment is helpful
Zen Arado: JOn Kabat Zinn
Alfred Kelberry: ah, then it must be zazen in his case
Zen Arado: yes - but don't get too hung up on definitions - he practiced Vipassana as well
Alfred Kelberry: yes, in fact, i don't see much difference in them :)
Zen Arado: they are very keen on a type of meditation called a 'body scan'
Alfred Kelberry: oh, can you tell more?
Zen Arado: I can get you a link if you want to try a guided one?
Alfred Kelberry: sure
Zen Arado: it is about paying attention to each part of your body in turn
Zen Arado: a bit like vipassana
Zen Arado: it is very relaxing
Alfred Kelberry: yes, in vipassana it's mostly chest or tip of your nose
Zen Arado: http://www.archive.org/details/MCull...ScanMeditation
Zen Arado: ah but that is concentration on the breath
Alfred Kelberry: body scan - a very western name :)
Zen Arado: but try it and see
Alfred Kelberry: some may think of an airport :)
Zen Arado: it is an old Buddhist technique though
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Zen Arado: it is useful to do if you can't sleep too
Alfred Kelberry: i'm just "playing" :)
Zen Arado: it gets your attention away from thoughts in the mind
Alfred Kelberry: i usually fall asleep quickly
Zen Arado: you are so lucky
Alfred Kelberry: no, i just get tired enough when brain shuts down :)
Zen Arado: sometimes the more I think the less chance I have of shutting down my brain
Alfred Kelberry: i like to read before i sleep. it helps, too.
Zen Arado: so I feel sleepy in the mornings and wide awake at night
Zen Arado: yes - good idea - best to read trashy novels :)
Alfred Kelberry: characteristic of an owl :)
Zen Arado: yep
Alfred Kelberry: i'm something like that

Being critical of fiction in novels and movies:

Alfred Kelberry: can't read novels - too boring
Alfred Kelberry: i go with non-fiction
Zen Arado: you have to suspend your critical faculty a bit - ok a lot sometimes :)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: well, i've tried not once
Alfred Kelberry: never could go past a few pages
Zen Arado: I find Hollywood movies so stupid
Zen Arado: formulaic...sigh...
Alfred Kelberry: how so?
Zen Arado: they always have such predictable elements
Zen Arado: a car chase is one
Alfred Kelberry: hey! you have to suspend your criticality about hollywood movies :)
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Zen Arado: and a beautiful woman like Angelina Joli...
Alfred Kelberry: is she?
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: well - I think so....
Alfred Kelberry: ok
Zen Arado: not sure she would be too interesting other ways ....
Alfred Kelberry: she's doing humanitarian work, though. i respect her for that.
Zen Arado: is she? didn't know that
Alfred Kelberry: i think action movies are artificially "dumbed down" to grab as much audience as possible with emphasis on pure entertainment - which *is* fun to watch now and then
Zen Arado: I shouldn't be so judgemental - if she wants to go out with me I'll give her a chance :)
Alfred Kelberry: she's a goodwill ambassador for un
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: i'd like to have a cup of tea with her
Zen Arado: yes - it is a business and they have to provide what people want I guess
Zen Arado: so you just have to suspend criticism and go with it
Zen Arado: but it is the same with novels for me
Alfred Kelberry: i'd rather watch a movie than read a novel
Zen Arado: and at least I can use my own imagination there
Alfred Kelberry: much quicker and you see pretty pictures with music :)
Zen Arado: if you read a grreat novel by a great writer though...
Alfred Kelberry: oh, i tried them... tosltoy, dostoevsky, etc - boring :)
Zen Arado: ok....it's just a matter of taste I guess
Alfred Kelberry: i do admire their talent, though
Zen Arado: I love DH Lawrence...
Alfred Kelberry: yes, taste... whatever that is
Zen Arado: he was into Eastern religions and stuff like that I believe
Alfred Kelberry: wiki says he wrote in genre of modernism
Zen Arado: I believe Lawrence was into mindfulness practice
Zen Arado: that's why he write such beautiful descriptive passages...
Zen Arado: he was fully there...
Zen Arado: wrote *
Alfred Kelberry: well, i take it he was also a talent :)
Zen Arado: but a writer can only write about what he sees ar has seen
Alfred Kelberry: if mindfulness let him realize it even more - good for him
Zen Arado: in their descriptive passages anyway
Alfred Kelberry: i wouldn't specifically attribute it to mindfulness practice
Zen Arado: oh no....he obviously had great talent too I agree
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: he's got some non-fiction writings. that i could read.
Zen Arado: but when you read 'Sons and Lovers' and books like that you realize just how close his observation of the mining community he lived in were
Zen Arado: he wrote a lot of poetry too I believe

Rational vs creative talents/thinking:

Alfred Kelberry: i find modern prose-like poetry puzzling :)
Zen Arado: maybe you ahve a more logical brain Alf
Zen Arado: you are more oriented towards science ?
Alfred Kelberry: drop the form, emphasize the substance - well, i like the form to be in place as well :)
Alfred Kelberry: *nods*
Zen Arado: I am more of an 'all rounder' I guess
Alfred Kelberry: that's nice
Alfred Kelberry: i try to be as well :)
Zen Arado: but not really good at anything :)
Zen Arado: I did an engineering degree
Alfred Kelberry: but i do like my poems to rhyme :)
Zen Arado: but also an Arts and Humanities one
Alfred Kelberry: ah, lovely
Zen Arado: and one in philosophy
Zen Arado: I worked in Engineering
Alfred Kelberry: i think you can officially hold an all-rounder title :)
Zen Arado: but I am now an abstract painter :)
Zen Arado: :)
Alfred Kelberry: oh, do you have a gallery in sl?
Zen Arado: yes look at my picks
Alfred Kelberry: ha! funny, didn't know you paint :)
Alfred Kelberry: thank you. i'll visit it.
Zen Arado: bring plenty of Lindens with you :)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Zen Arado: only kidding :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: I don't sell much in SL - it is just for fun really
Zen Arado: I sell in RL but abstracts are harder to sell than traditinal paintings
Alfred Kelberry: yes... i think you can't make a fortune in sl, unless you're in real estate :)
Zen Arado: maybe selling animations?
Zen Arado: I paid $L 7000 for a cat !
Alfred Kelberry: oh my!
Zen Arado: but she was worth it :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)

The business of Art:

Alfred Kelberry: it's often painter's name what is being sold
Zen Arado: ah yes - you have to have a reputation
Alfred Kelberry: maybe you should do something crazy to establish an art persona? :)
Zen Arado: yeah maybe
Zen Arado: but I don't need or want a lot of money
Alfred Kelberry: like that russian guy who played a dog naked on the street :)
Alfred Kelberry: that's a dropping for you :)
Zen Arado: hmmmm...maybe if I was younger and had a family to raise...
Alfred Kelberry: or maybe completly the opposite? :)
Zen Arado: but I jsut paint for enjoyment
Zen Arado: it's a kind of exploration for me
Alfred Kelberry: yes, joy is very important in what we do
Alfred Kelberry: people can sense it in a product
Alfred Kelberry: exploration - i like that
Alfred Kelberry: it's what our live is
Alfred Kelberry: some decide to stay put though
Zen Arado: yes - I admit I sold out to a job that was secure and had a good pension
Zen Arado: but now \i am retired I can do what I want
Zen Arado: anyway - I have to go
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: thanks for discussion
Alfred Kelberry: ok, zen. it was nice talking to you.
Alfred Kelberry: thank you for the company
Zen Arado: you too :)
Alfred Kelberry: bye
Zen Arado: bye