2010.11.06 19:00 - Context

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: Hi Druth!
druth Vlodovic: hi pema
druth Vlodovic: all alone?
Pema Pera: so far yes, till you came :-)
Pema Pera: but not quite alone in RL though
druth Vlodovic: ah, now we're both alone
druth Vlodovic: oh? where are you?
Pema Pera: in a corner of a very busy part of Tokyo station . . . :-)
druth Vlodovic: lol, fun place
Pema Pera: I scheduled my trip such that I could take this hour between subway, one train and after this another :-)
Pema Pera: yes, we are alone together (^_^)
druth Vlodovic: must be an interesting discordance between your two avatars lol
Pema Pera: yes, but getting used to it :)
Pema Pera: this pavilion is a nice place to get my bearings after each time shifting in RL
druth Vlodovic: yes, what is all the travelling about? or is this normal for you?
Pema Pera: oh yes, it's my life :)
Pema Pera: I have many research projects, collaborating with many people in different places
Pema Pera: both in astrophysics and in more general interdisciplinary collaborations
Pema Pera: for example, I'm about to take a train to visit a philosopher, a few hours Norths of Tokyo
druth Vlodovic: what sort of philosopher?
Pema Pera: looking forward to talking with him; we seem to have quite similar orientations concerning the nature of reality
Pema Pera: phenomenologist
Pema Pera: hi Sharon, great to see you again!
druth Vlodovic: ah
druth Vlodovic: hi sophie
druth Vlodovic: hmm, thinks about the nature of um, stuff?
Pema Pera: Sharon, I just mentioned to Druth that I'm in RL at Tokyo station, in between two trains
druth Vlodovic: running quickly
Pema Pera: with a nice cafe latte and some fresh bakes rolls with various sweet beans in it
SophiaSharon Larnia: how you keep centered among the distractions there has always been interesting to me :)
Pema Pera: the nature of everything, Druth, stuff yes but in general anything that appears
Pema Pera: haha, Sharon, this place is one way to help me centering
Pema Pera: wherever I go there is always the PaB pavilion to go back to :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: i've gone on short vacations and eperienced that, it threw me a bit
SophiaSharon Larnia: experienced*
Pema Pera: it can be disconcerting waking up and not knowing which place you're in :)
Pema Pera: or country or continent
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
druth Vlodovic: I can'tspeak for being displaced in space, but displaced in time is a way of life for me :-/
SophiaSharon Larnia: I can only imagine
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes druth, can you say more?
Pema Pera: how so, Druth?
druth Vlodovic: "continental shift"
Pema Pera: hi Hana, long time no see!
druth Vlodovic: sort of rotating 12 hrs, days and night
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Hana :)
Pema Pera: ah, night owl?
druth Vlodovic: sometimes to know if it is daytime I have to look out the window
SophiaSharon Larnia: druth same here, at one time, for years and years
Hana Furlough: Hi Pema, SophiaS, druth!
druth Vlodovic: hi hana
Pema Pera: ははさん、今東京駅。^^
SophiaSharon Larnia: there is a particular time of day, dawn or dusk, that the time of day feels the same....
druth Vlodovic: better than two weeks nights, but it has strange effects on things
Hana Furlough: 駅のなかにいますか？！
Hana Furlough: @ SophiaS: yes!
Pema Pera: はいそうです。今から山形ゆき。
SophiaSharon Larnia: (looks at the pretty letters heheheh)
Pema Pera: yes, I know the feeling, Sharon
druth Vlodovic: standing there, "Am I coming in or leaving? better sit still a sec and see what happens."
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods nods
Pema Pera: like with jet lag and opening your eyes and wondering whether the sun is setting or rising
Hana Furlough: 駅の中にインターネットに接続できますか？！
Hana Furlough: nice, druth!
Pema Pera: 自分のうぃふぁいを持ってます。
Hana Furlough: ああ。なるほど！
Pema Pera: 山形で現象学者に会います。
Pema Pera: sorry, I'm summarizing for Hana what I already told both of you twice :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I attribute my very loose sense of time and disregard for it, for working off or swing shifts for so long
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok Pema :D thanks
druth Vlodovic: I always used to imagine great banks of keys with japanese markings on them, and some sort of device for assembling them
Pema Pera: like DNA, Druth?
Hana Furlough: すごいですね！紅葉が見られますか？
SophiaSharon Larnia: i saw a big puzzle when i read that druth :)
druth Vlodovic: I was very disappointed to find out they type in roman alphabet and translate it
Pema Pera: まだ、今年はおそい。
Pema Pera: oh, that kind of keys!
Hana Furlough: 遅いですね！
Pema Pera: I was thinking about keys to lock a door :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm or unlock?
Pema Pera: yes, Hana and I use the roman alphabet, secretly :)
Pema Pera: to lock up our meanings, hahaha
Hana Furlough: 私も間に合えるかしら？
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Hana Furlough: haha yes!
Pema Pera: そうよ！
Pema Pera: 間に合うと思う
druth Vlodovic: to encode our thoughts
Hana Furlough: 楽しみにしています！
Pema Pera: Hana is wondering whether she will not be too late for the fall colors, when she comes to Kyoto next month
SophiaSharon Larnia: people do that in english too by using inside jokes
Pema Pera: and I told her it would probably still be in time
Hana Furlough: yeah sorry
SophiaSharon Larnia: ahh its beautiful in pa!
Pema Pera: yes, good point, Sharon!
Hana Furlough: english on!
SophiaSharon Larnia: no prob haha
Pema Pera: apple cider too, Sharon?
SophiaSharon Larnia: ahhh yes apple cider wine, warmed with cinnamon
Hana Furlough: sounds so nice!
Pema Pera missing NJ apple cider . . .
druth Vlodovic: I find google translations interesting, especially when it's accuracy is in question
SophiaSharon Larnia: cloves i meant but cinnamon good too
Pema Pera: oh, Google is good within the European language family, but pretty atrocious for Japanese
Pema Pera feels his latte suddenly tasting differently . . . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
Hana Furlough: lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive tried the google translater to comminutacate in sl, it was kind of comical
SophiaSharon Larnia: communicate*
druth Vlodovic: I have a friend who has awful spelling, it is interesting sometimes to see what it is translated into
SophiaSharon Larnia: you think communicating in text is hard, jeesh
druth Vlodovic: hot apple cider, you need snow to properly appreciate it
Hana Furlough: it kind of makes me happy that google japanese translator is so bad, as i won't be out of a job anytime soon : )
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Hana Furlough: i'm all for mutual intelligibility, but there is an art to it
SophiaSharon Larnia: the air here has a good bite to it for that :) not looking forward to snow
SophiaSharon Larnia: but then its pretty, maybe i am :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: as long as theres no 80 degree days in Dec.
Hana Furlough: has that happened before?
Pema Pera: sometimes, but not often :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: not that im aware of, but 80 degree days in late October here, weird
Hana Furlough: that happens all the time in northern california
druth Vlodovic: the weather is getting stranger
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah Hana :)
druth Vlodovic: I want my language learning pills
SophiaSharon Larnia: wants a babel fish
Pema Pera: :-)
Hana Furlough: my dissertation wants one too
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
druth Vlodovic: what is it on?
Hana Furlough: japanese poetry
SophiaSharon Larnia: In my limited knowledge, just knowing the language seems to me not enough to translate it
Hana Furlough: yeah context is really important too
SophiaSharon Larnia: theres more than plenty i dont get in english
Hana Furlough: it's hard to know when to stop contextualizing though
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Hana Furlough: me too!
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: like life also, could contextualize everything, hard to know when to stop
SophiaSharon Larnia: oops, I did type that before the bell.... lag :(
Pema Pera: :-)
Hana Furlough: exactly, sophia
Hana Furlough: it's really hard to tell
druth Vlodovic: My dad was a master of sarcasm, so I learned not only to read nuances, but to ignore them.
Pema Pera: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah
Pema Pera: in some way, all is context . . .
Pema Pera: nothing stands on its own
Hana Furlough: can you say more, pema?
Hana Furlough: ====
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i agree, in a way im not sure how to explain
Pema Pera: Hmmm
Pema Pera: like in Buddhism, co-dependent arising
Pema Pera: or in Hinduism, Indra's net
Hana Furlough: sorry
SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Hana :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods at Pema
Pema Pera: nice re-entry, Hana!
Hana Furlough: my cat, olive, teleported me somewhere when she walked across the keyboard
Pema Pera: hahaha
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehehe
Pema Pera: [19:33] Pema Pera: Hmmm [19:33] Pema Pera: like in Buddhism, co-dependent arising
Pema Pera: [19:33] Pema Pera: or in Hinduism, Indra's net
Hana Furlough: thank you
Hana Furlough: so by context do you mean connections?
Pema Pera: Hi Al!
Hana Furlough: Hi Alfred
SophiaSharon Larnia: speaking from experience, i could trace back and around and through, contextual meaning forever it seems, a point comes where i wonder if it has any point or meaning to be obtained from it, and why
Pema Pera: connections, yes, and also what gives meaning in general
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Alfred
druth Vlodovic: sometimes it is better to say "Maybe this is just itself" and walk on
Pema Pera: yes, Sharon, we tend to run in circles!
SophiaSharon Larnia: so sometimes need to put down the book
Pema Pera smiles at Druth's pity summary
druth Vlodovic: a good way to end extended fights lol
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes druth lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Pema Pera: or perhaps walk into a new one? (@ Druth)
Hana Furlough: Hi Steve
Hana Furlough: lol
stevenaia Michinaga: gtsy
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: good to see you friends :)
Pema Pera feels pretty gtsy too
druth Vlodovic: I've gotten shot at for doing that, but a fight can't last in light of that approach, in my experience anyway
SophiaSharon Larnia: nice to see you too Alfred
Pema Pera: getting shot may be a very short experience, yes :)
Alfred Kelberry: *feels calmness on his arrival*
druth Vlodovic: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: may change things contextually too
Pema Pera: we normally don't think about context much, but even picking up a single object, or even recognizing it, requires so much context, something we just take for granted
druth Vlodovic: lol, I was wondering why steve was feeling "gutsy"
Hana Furlough: lol!
Hana Furlough: yeah.... and what we think of as good and bad changes completely based on context
stevenaia Michinaga: good to see you = gtsy
SophiaSharon Larnia: ahh explained!!! thank you hehehe
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
druth Vlodovic: an interesting experiment is to try to follow as many contextual threads as possible, but suspend judgement until after
Alfred Kelberry: pema, by context you mean arising thoughts?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i thought it was a canadain greeting, but then again im kind of weird
Pema Pera: :)
Hana Furlough: haha
Pema Pera: anything, Al, that gives meaning
stevenaia Michinaga: one person's yin is another person's yang, everything is relative based on context
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: one person's moderate thought can be another person's extreme
Pema Pera: :)
druth Vlodovic: true (wince)
SophiaSharon Larnia: winces too :)
Hana Furlough: lol
Hana Furlough: yeah
Alfred Kelberry: pema, in this sense, i liked an example of vipassana meditation where one first thinks of his body and simply becomes aware of it. then next thinks of a good/bad part of his/her body, which vividly brings a whole stream of thoughts/context.
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: (likes stev's comment :)
stevenaia Michinaga: but it could be a good thing as well if you understand everything is rooted in relative perspective
stevenaia Michinaga: then a conversation can begin
Pema Pera: (I was waiting for the 90 sec bell)
Pema Pera: yes, it's not even clear what it might mean for something not to be contextual
Pema Pera: how could something stand on itself?
Pema Pera: without relation to other things?
Hana Furlough: that is the question of whether experience without conceptuation is possible
SophiaSharon Larnia: where would the conversation start? From what you think their context is, is that dangerous to assume
Hana Furlough: *conceptualization
Hana Furlough: i'm making up words here
Pema Pera: :)
Alfred Kelberry: pema, maybe it's when you're not aware of it? like kids. they're free from many concepts simply because they haven't learnt them yet.
druth Vlodovic: when our experience is processed through our hiughly subjective minds and senses
Pema Pera: conceptuation must be the start of conceptualization, perhaps :-) an inception?
stevenaia Michinaga: a position of one, not much of a meaningful converstaion
Hana Furlough: haha yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive aggued with myself before, taking different contexts hehehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: argued*
Pema Pera: but for a pre-verbal child too, the world is full of relationships and connections, all part of context
Alfred Kelberry: less so
Alfred Kelberry: but they're so eager to learn :)
Hana Furlough: yeah what about sheer appearance
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
Hana Furlough: what is its relationship to context?
Pema Pera: I think we can appreciate sheer appearance without having to forget the concepts etc that go with mere appearance
Pema Pera: we can fall into the beauty of a flower, but we don't have to forget/ignore its flowerness
Hana Furlough: nice
Pema Pera: if anything, that may be a way to really get to know the flowerness of a flower . . .
Hana Furlough: the absolute disclosed through the particular
druth Vlodovic: there is a fear of many people that too look too closely is to steal the magic from a thing
druth Vlodovic: I find the opposite
Pema Pera: yes, and that sometimes transforms into an anti-scientific stance, which is a pity
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe to look past its mere appearance
Alfred Kelberry: druth, is it religous related?
Pema Pera: we can appreciate both
Pema Pera: alas, I have to leave now to catch my next North-bound train . . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Pema :)
druth Vlodovic: have fun pema
Hana Furlough: safe travels!
Pema Pera: to "snow country" but too early for snow . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema
Alfred Kelberry: take pics, pema :)
Hana Furlough: nice : )
Pema Pera: there will be a meter or more of snow in February!
Alfred Kelberry: could then later show them in teh art gallery :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, nice
Pema Pera: with people digging tunnels in it
Pema Pera: great seeing you all !
Hana Furlough: like kawabata yasunari wrote about
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
Hana Furlough: bye pema
druth Vlodovic: and you
Pema Pera: yes!!
Pema Pera: bfn
Alfred Kelberry: i want snow :)
Hana Furlough: will you get snow this year, Alf?
stevenaia Michinaga: be careful what you wish for
druth Vlodovic: lol, since I'm already getting ice I guess I'd be ok with it
Alfred Kelberry: sure thing, hana :)
Hana Furlough: great!
Alfred Kelberry: can't wait to go for a walk into a snowy forest
Hana Furlough: sounds lovely
SophiaSharon Larnia: snow always brings up a picture in my mind of sleds, big puffy coats and mittens, with snow encrusted snow boots
Alfred Kelberry: yes... unity with nature :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I love the quietness of outside after a snow
Alfred Kelberry: sophia, nice picture :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, stev!
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Hana Furlough: the silence is amazing
Hana Furlough: everything is muffled
druth Vlodovic: adventure
stevenaia Michinaga: you hear your feet
Alfred Kelberry: and in a forest the silence is just astounding
SophiaSharon Larnia: crush swish-crunch
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, smiles
Alfred Kelberry: it feels as if you can hear the snowflakes coming down :)
Hana Furlough: can you?
stevenaia Michinaga: you can taste them
Hana Furlough: : )
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, i heard that, so subtle
Alfred Kelberry: ha! yes, stev :)
Alfred Kelberry: i do that
SophiaSharon Larnia: when theyre icey snow flakes
Alfred Kelberry: i look up, close my eyes and here they come :)
Hana Furlough: what does it sound like?
Alfred Kelberry: hmm...
SophiaSharon Larnia: like really really soft popping, my first thought
Hana Furlough: wow cool!
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Hana Furlough: i'll listen for that this year : )
Alfred Kelberry: i think there's too much city (life) noise in us to really hear it
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: *enjoys beautiful stev's dress*
stevenaia Michinaga: thank Paradise, her dressmaker
Alfred Kelberry: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Alfred, i didnt say it, but that soft popping sound was obliterated in my internal landscape by the sound of snow plows, funny how that happens, in your own mind
Alfred Kelberry: sophia, cute :)
Hana Furlough: yes, very striking, stevenaia
druth Vlodovic: I was permutating the words, city, life and noise
Hana Furlough: lol, sophias
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
Hana Furlough: i love the sound of snow plows at night
SophiaSharon Larnia: yea, it means you may leave the house that day
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Hana Furlough: haha
Hana Furlough: oh yeah...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i was trapped home several times last year, and out of it too
Alfred Kelberry: ouch :)
Hana Furlough: me too
Alfred Kelberry: how did it feel, sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: prefered to be trapped IN ahhaha
druth Vlodovic: "snow days"
Hana Furlough: last year was my first year living somewhere where it really snowed
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh Hana :)
druth Vlodovic: a time to run outside and make snowforts and get wet
Alfred Kelberry: i think there's an element of romance in being trapped by snow :)
Hana Furlough: haha yeah... it was amazing!
druth Vlodovic: I'd have loved to have seen your eyes, looking at it :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: was it near NJ? If it was, then you really saw it last year
Hana Furlough: yeah it was in NJ
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Hana Furlough: i couldn't believe my eyes
Hana Furlough: several times...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm pretty tall, and it came up over my waist
SophiaSharon Larnia: pre plow
Hana Furlough: wow that's nuts
SophiaSharon Larnia: yup
Alfred Kelberry: poor nj, always gets picked on in the movies :/
Hana Furlough: did yo have to shovel?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yup
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: gave up half way and paid my neighbor kids
Hana Furlough: good call
Alfred Kelberry: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Alfred Kelberry: in canada neighbor kids do it for free :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: ooooh nice
Hana Furlough: next time i'll call some canadian kids
Alfred Kelberry: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
druth Vlodovic: 'couple times I've been halfway done shoveling and somone with a plow has offered to finish it for me
druth Vlodovic: caught between "but look at how much I've done!" and "YAY!!!"
SophiaSharon Larnia: ahh wouldnt been better if you hadnt been on the ball then lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: wouldve*
Hana Furlough: haha
druth Vlodovic: ah, but nobody picks up a hitchhiker who isn't walking
Alfred Kelberry: *makes a symmetrical shape*
SophiaSharon Larnia: I got a job as a visiting nurse, so I hope it never snows like that again, some snow i can deal with
Hana Furlough: yeah... that would be really hard to drive in
SophiaSharon Larnia: i lived on a mountain for many years so snow doesnt scare me, that much --> turn into the slide lol
Alfred Kelberry: what recently watches movies can you recommend girls?
Hana Furlough: do you do that automatically? or does it feel counterintuitive?
SophiaSharon Larnia: havent been going to the movies
Alfred Kelberry: sophia, aww... i love mountains
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh its def. counterintuitive, i was a mess for many years and had to get pushed out of many more than one ditch
Hana Furlough: i haven't been to the theaters recently, but i just got netflix
Hana Furlough: wow scary, soph
stevenaia Michinaga: Avatar, Inception
SophiaSharon Larnia: actually i was young enough where i wasnt as scared as I shouldve been
Alfred Kelberry: yes, inception is on my list
SophiaSharon Larnia: still havent seen that movie :(
Alfred Kelberry: hana, what did you order?
Hana Furlough: recently watched this amazing documnetary on joseph campbell
Hana Furlough: very very nice
Alfred Kelberry: sophia, yes, good note about being young and fearless... :)
Hana Furlough: it's called sukhavati
Alfred Kelberry: mythologist
Hana Furlough: yes
Hana Furlough: i didn't know much about him before, but this is good stuff
Alfred Kelberry: he was into eastern practices?
Hana Furlough: he was into basically everything
Hana Furlough: he really was synthesizing all kinds of thought systems
Alfred Kelberry: "follow your bliss" :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Hana Furlough: yes!
Hana Furlough: good advice, i think
--BELL--
SophiaSharon Larnia: it was nice to see you all :) Got to go...
Hana Furlough: bye sophias
SophiaSharon Larnia: bue for now :D
Hana Furlough: happy dreams!
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye*
SophiaSharon Larnia: you too
Hana Furlough: thanks : )
druth Vlodovic: bye spohia
Alfred Kelberry: http://lmrk.me/lm/65
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Hana Furlough: nice!
Hana Furlough: i like it!
Alfred Kelberry: thank you :)
Alfred Kelberry: it feels very comfy
Hana Furlough: it has nice balance to it
Hana Furlough: i should get going
Hana Furlough: a pleasure as always
Hana Furlough: and a good night to you both~
druth Vlodovic: it was good to met you hana
stevenaia Michinaga: night hana
Alfred Kelberry: oops
Alfred Kelberry: missed another one
druth Vlodovic: I've got to go
druth Vlodovic: have fun guys
stevenaia Michinaga: bye my friends
Alfred Kelberry: alright, guess it's time to go then
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: night alfred
Alfred Kelberry: lovely dress! :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, thanks
Alfred Kelberry: bye :)