The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray.

Riddle Sideways: Morning again, Blub

--BELL—

Darren Islar smiles at Riddle
Wol Euler: hello everyone
Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
Darren Islar: hi everyone:)
Riddle Sideways: ok, Bruce thanks for taking this session :)
Bruce Mowbray: OK. No problem. . . just a wee bit of confusion. . .
Bruce Mowbray: I'll claim it now...
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Riddle Sideways: Am confused too
Wol Euler: hello Bleu
Wol Euler: hello Riddle
Darren Islar: hi Bleu
Riddle Sideways: Hi Darren, Bleu, Hokon
Wol Euler: oh, Riddle, how sweet :)
Darren Islar: :)
Riddle Sideways: Hi Wol
Bruce Mowbray: OK -- Hello, to Darren, Bleu, Wol, Riddle, Hokon!
Riddle Sideways: What sweet? I do not get sweet much
Wol Euler: your av.
Darren Islar: hi Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
Wol Euler: it positively drips cuteness
Riddle Sideways: well, I screwed up prev av
Wol Euler: o.O
Darren Islar: oops
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Yaku.
Wol Euler: hello Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Riddle Sideways: Hey Yaku
Darren Islar: hi Yaku
Bleu Oleander: hi Yaku
Riddle Sideways: He poofed
Darren Islar: I see a talking stick hanging in the air
Wol Euler: probably going to the dream session
Bruce Mowbray: Lugh left it there this morning, I think.
Bruce Mowbray: OK, Wol. Enjoy!
Wol Euler: ?
Darren Islar: no Yaku is :)
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: yes, I left out a pronoun
Bruce Mowbray: Oh -- sry. I thought you said you were going to the dream session. I misunderstood.
Wol Euler: I'd like to, but I feel awkward getting  up and leaving
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Yaku!
Wol Euler: just like RL :)
Hokon Cazalet: I need to go back to rl, see ya peeps later =)
Bruce Mowbray: No problem with getting up and leaving . . . Do your thing, dear.
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Wol Euler: bye Hokon
Wol Euler: take care
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Hokon.
Darren Islar: bye Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: you too *waves*
Wol Euler: ok, thanks! bye for now
Hokon Cazalet: Weeee! ^.^
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Wol.
Bruce Mowbray: mmmm. . . Musical cushions.
Riddle Sideways: so, everybody leaves?
Riddle Sideways: except us important people
Bruce Mowbray: nope. Four of us are still here.
Darren Islar: so it seems
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: I really admire Pila's courage.
Bleu Oleander: so is there a topic today?
Darren Islar: Pila's courage?
Riddle Sideways thinks my dreams do not need being put into the work shop
Bruce Mowbray: Yaku and I just left an I Ching session in which Pila introduced Aphrodite to the I Ching for the very first time.
Bleu Oleander: what did he do?
Bruce Mowbray: I am REALLY impressed by how smoothly Pila can do that.
Bleu Oleander: oh how was it?
Bruce Mowbray: I cannot imagine myself understanding it the first time. ..
Bruce Mowbray: Now that I've done I Ching readings for 40 years, it's no problem....
Bruce Mowbray: but the very first time (!!)
Bleu Oleander: 40 yrs?
Riddle Sideways: does the internet make it really easy?
Bruce Mowbray: If Aph comes to this session, let's ask her how it went.
Bruce Mowbray: Yep, my first was in 1970.
Bleu Oleander: wow
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, we suggested a few internet I Ching sites.
Bleu Oleander: what has made you stick with it?
Bruce Mowbray: But Pila wanted to explain the philosophy behind the I Ching -- and he did a great job of it, too.
Bruce Mowbray: It is a very valuable "oracle" for gleaning insight into one's self.
Bleu Oleander: how does it work?
Bruce Mowbray: I've thrown dozens of readings but never once received one that was not right on-target.
Bruce Mowbray: OH DEAR!  (Bruce suddenly realizes he's being asked to do what Pila did.)
Bleu Oleander: sorry
Bruce Mowbray: OK -- Here's how it works:
Bruce Mowbray: (VERY simply) ---
Bleu Oleander: don't want to put you on the spot
Bruce Mowbray: One throws three coins
Bruce Mowbray: and does this three-coin toss six times.
Bruce Mowbray: Each of those tosses results in a particular "line" of a six-line figure.
Bruce Mowbray: That figure is called a "hexagram" -- [6 lines picture]
Bleu Oleander: a visual picture?
Bruce Mowbray: The hexagram is used to give an "auspices" or "reading" on the condition of the universe regarding the question that you ask before any coins are thrown.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, a visual image.
Bruce Mowbray: six-line image.
Bruce Mowbray: Hi Lugh.
Bruce Mowbray: Did you lose your talking stick, Lugh?
Lugh Fehr: hey people!  oh it talks to you too?
Bruce Mowbray: It didn't talk to me, but I saw it up there in the air.
Darren Islar: hi Lugh
Bleu Oleander: anything like rune stones?
Lugh Fehr: heheh oh no that’s not mine hehe
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, somewhat like runes.
Riddle Sideways: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/38d/65a/38d65aef-e28d-4385-a128-fadaf2b69667&imgrefurl=http://tribes.tribe.net/e_ching/photos/38d65aef-e28d-4385-a128-fadaf2b69667&usg=__Kc_HVpiR5scRpyGWlEdJcCYvuOU=&h=1919&w=1915&sz=473&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=s1LA7ATla94dhM:&tbnh=155&tbnw=155&prev=/images%3Fq%3Di%2Bching%2Bhexagrams%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DRwG%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1061%26bih%3D988%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=139&vpy=108&dur=75&hovh=225&hovw=224&tx=113&ty=114&ei=qLnZTIzwIZD6swOqptG6Bw&oei=qLnZTIzwIZD6swOqptG6Bw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0
Bruce Mowbray: But comes out of the Far Eastern tradition rather than the European.

--BELL—

Riddle Sideways: opps, shoulda short-url'd that
Lugh Fehr: ahh the I Ching
Lugh Fehr: hehe
Bleu Oleander: do you take it seriously?
Darren Islar: maybe it's Cal's
Lugh Fehr: hehe cute av riddle
Riddle Sideways: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2dlaqa3
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I take it "seriously" but not literally.
Bruce Mowbray: but then, I don't take anything "literally."
Bleu Oleander: how does it give you insight into yourself?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, it is like poetry -- a series of metaphors. . . and one is free to interpret them according to her/his own life. . . on different levels, etc.
Bruce Mowbray: It is actually very Jungian in its principles.
Bleu Oleander: do you interpret the throws yourself ?
Bleu Oleander: ah I see
Bruce Mowbray: in fact, Carl Jung wrote a 25-page introduction to the translation of the I Ching that I've always used.
Bleu Oleander: oh interesting
Bruce Mowbray: That intro itself is very valuable reading.
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Lugh Fehr: that Alan Watts guy that I told about last time was a friend of Jung's
Bruce Mowbray: I've just sent a TP to Pila -- Maybe he'll join us here.
Darren Islar: I think he is in the dream session
Lugh Fehr: what’s a dream session?
Darren Islar: there is another session going on at this time
Bruce Mowbray: yes, perhaps so. . But he (Pila) just told me that he'd like to join us. . . We'll see.
Darren Islar: once a week
Pila Mulligan: I'm using a text only version of SL
Darren Islar: which tries to examine the meaning of dreams in both a scientific as alternative ways
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Pila.
Pila Mulligan: I cannot see visuals :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi
Lugh Fehr: hey ghost of Pila
Darren Islar: hi Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi
Riddle Sideways: Hi Pila, radar says you are 5m from me
Riddle Sideways: but, I cannot see you -  text-only
Bleu Oleander: Bruce was just commenting on how well you introduced Aphrodite to I Ching today
Pila Mulligan: well, at least radar knows where I am :)
Bruce Mowbray: Bleu and Lugh are asking about the I Ching, Pila.
Pila Mulligan: we jammed through a lot of stuff with Aph today, Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: And I've been giving a VERY brief summary.
Pila Mulligan: Bruce is an excellent resource
Bruce Mowbray: I was telling them how COURAGEOUS and thorough you were.
Bruce Mowbray: I was REALLY impressed.
Pila Mulligan: thanks, your part was impressive as well
Bruce Mowbray: but if folks here have specific questions, this would be a good time to ask (ask Pila, that is.)
Bruce Mowbray: invisible Pila.
Bleu Oleander: I don't really know anything about I Ching, so perhaps too big a job to have you explain it again
Pila Mulligan: http://www.iching.ws/
Pila Mulligan: it is an old Chinese philosophy classic
Pila Mulligan: the seminal work on yin and yang
Bruce Mowbray: of course, there are a lot of on-line sites . . . Well, there's one right there!
Pila Mulligan: I means change in Chinese and Ching is a classic or revered book, so it is also known as the Book of Changes
Bruce Mowbray: I Ching = Book of Changes.
Pila Mulligan: it traces its origins to about 5000 years ago
Bleu Oleander: thank you .... I’ll take a look at the website
Pila Mulligan: :)
Bleu Oleander: pretty old
Pila Mulligan: yes
Bleu Oleander: still relevant after all those years?
Pila Mulligan: yin and yang are similar to many older metaphysical schools
Pila Mulligan: I think it is still relevant
Pila Mulligan: but we live in a yang world now
Pila Mulligan: we miss a lot of the yin side of philosophy
Bleu Oleander: how do you relate it to today's world?
Bruce Mowbray: I was speaking earlier about how the metaphors of an I Ching image (hexagram) can be used to gain insight into oneself.
Pila Mulligan: Phenomenology seems to me to be an effort to restore a yin balance to philosophy
Bleu Oleander: oh ok
Bruce Mowbray thinks Wow -- Good point about phenomenology being yin. . .
Pila Mulligan: the book is a collection of poems
Pila Mulligan: the poems are insights into life and human nature
Pila Mulligan: so reference to a poem has a kind of timeless quality
Pila Mulligan: they are pithy

--BELL—

Bleu Oleander: 5000 yr old insights that are still relevant today? amazing
Pila Mulligan: but the use of the I Ching involves random selection of a poem
Pila Mulligan: and the thing that grabs people is how a random selection can often result in a very pertinent poem
Pila Mulligan: there is a time or coincidence factor

Pila Mulligan: the poems are only about 2500 years old
Riddle Sideways: http://preview.tinyurl.com/2dlaqa3 is quick ref
Pila Mulligan: the yin yang system is 5000 years old
Pila Mulligan: thanks Riddle, that is a chart if the images of the 64 chapters
Riddle Sideways: sorry, wrong url
Bleu Oleander: (excuse me for a minute ... be right back)
Riddle Sideways: http://www.psychic-revelation.com/reference/i_l/i_ching/i_ching_interpretation.html
Bruce Mowbray: For me - all my years of using the I Ching - it has never seemed "psychic" --
Bruce Mowbray: It is a very common-sense book of wisdom.
Darren Islar: and real insights are here to stay
Bruce Mowbray: Nothing spooky -- or "psychic phenomena" about it.
Bleu Oleander: (back, sorry)
Lugh Fehr: any of you guys believe in prophecy?
Bruce Mowbray: Pila suddenly got shifted into another sim, but I've offered him another TP to return here.
Bruce Mowbray: It might take a minute.
Darren Islar: depends Lugh
Bruce Mowbray: I "believe" in it -- if I understand what you mean by the term.
Bleu Oleander: what do you mean by the term?
Lugh Fehr: well any insight on the future not based on knowledge - seeing the exact thing that will happen
Bruce Mowbray: it is a different thing from fortune-telling, though.
Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, I feel that prophecy is something else.
Bruce Mowbray: Prophecy (for me -- not intending to lay a trip on anyone now) is clear insight into what is happening now -
Bruce Mowbray: and foresight into what will happen in the future if we continue doing what we're doing now. So, prophecy is, in a sense, clear-seeing.

Darren Islar: do you experience such a thing Lugh?
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Lugh.
Bleu Oleander: clear seeing into the future?
Lugh Fehr: nahh I don’t actually believe it, although in a sense I believe that everything exists in a way, but if I did I think I might be Moses
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Lugh Fehr: hehhe
Darren Islar: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe Lugh could divide the waters of our fountain.
Darren Islar: I think prophecy is a situation getting close in time, time not interpreted as linear
Darren Islar: hard to interpret something like that
Lugh Fehr: I TELL YOU!!!
Lugh Fehr: hehhee there was a time when I was into LSD a lot and a voice used to tell me that I’m destined to build a new people. hehehhe but I don’t believe it hehe
Bleu Oleander: (sorry, RL problem .... gtg)
Lugh Fehr: bye Bleu...too late
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Bleu!
Darren Islar: sometimes it can just be plain fantasy
Bruce Mowbray: sure.
Darren Islar: or pictures and lines that get hung up to certain emotions
Lugh Fehr: yeah shamanism is a mixture of reality and confusion
Darren Islar: right
Bruce Mowbray: That's what I like about the I Ching, though. It involves serious self-interpretation.
Darren Islar: maybe you should say ‘clarity and confusion’
Lugh Fehr: yup better term
Bruce Mowbray: Mirrors can be useful if we know how to look into them.
Riddle Sideways: Mirrors can be very dangerous if we don't know how to look into them
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: Yeppers.
Riddle Sideways: I can SEE Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi (tough day in SL for Pila -- very laggy and unstable)
Lugh Fehr: hey mate with no name on his head
Darren Islar: hey Pila, we have a visual on you now :)
Pila Mulligan: yes, for now :)
Bruce Mowbray: Mirrors (like paradoxes) involve self-reference, and that requires much care in the interpreting.
Bruce Mowbray: Are you here, Pila?
Pila Mulligan: I think so, Bruce
Lugh Fehr: what do you mean by mirrors?
Bruce Mowbray: I see you now.
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhh. Excellent question, Lugh.
Lugh Fehr: I can see you Pila
Bruce Mowbray: I was talking about the I Ching as a sort of "mirror."

--BELL—

Pila Mulligan feels like the AVATAR movie :0
Lugh Fehr: well I think if another person can give you an insight so can the I Ching because people only speak randomly and insight is still an illusion because words actually have no meaning other than in the world of words
Bruce Mowbray: Might there be a "wisdom" that transcends time and language, though?
Darren Islar: need to go
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Darren.
Darren Islar: see you guys :)
Pila Mulligan: one aspect of the I Ching that has made it important in China is its capacity to inspire insight
Lugh Fehr: bye Darren
Pila Mulligan: bye Darren
Lugh Fehr: the only insight is silence
Pila Mulligan: it has inspired many of China's cultural arts -- medicine, ceramics, martial arts, etc
Pila Mulligan: insight in the sense of adding to the art
Bruce Mowbray: The roots of Taoism, too.
Pila Mulligan: and yes, silence is the ultimate insight :)
Lugh Fehr: the name that cannot be named hehe
Pila Mulligan: yep
Bruce Mowbray: I tend to be very pragmatic about my "methods."
Lugh Fehr: am I the only one that sees Pila?
Bruce Mowbray: I see Pila.
Pila Mulligan: but imagine a ceramicist in the Ming dynasty spending 50 years perfecting the art, and then getting another step forward in the skill from an old poem
Bruce Mowbray: I employ some very mystical methods to get some very pragmatic results.
Pila Mulligan: that kind of inspiration
Bruce Mowbray listens intently.
Pila Mulligan: those old poems have inspired a lot of Chinese skills
Pila Mulligan: as well as philosophy
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed.
Pila Mulligan: pragmatic results :)
Bruce Mowbray: I was listening to a podcast last night (from a Zen monastery), and the roshi made a point of saying 'Gates to Dharma are INFINITE.'
Bruce Mowbray: infinite number of ways "in."
Pila Mulligan: yep :)
Pila Mulligan: the cobbler can be as close to heaven as the saint
Bruce Mowbray: I love the openness of that.
Bruce Mowbray: The subway as sacred as the cathedral.
Lugh Fehr: all are the body of god hehhe
Pila Mulligan: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, indeed - and of course - and yeppers to that!
Riddle Sideways: need to go folks
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Riddle.
Lugh Fehr: bye bye
Pila Mulligan: bye Riddle, nice to see you
Lugh Fehr: well imagine this
Bruce Mowbray: I have a special meeting that I'm supposed to attend - beginning in five minutes. . .
Pila Mulligan: ok
Bruce Mowbray: But would rather stay here and continue if either of you wish.
Pila Mulligan: sure
Pila Mulligan: whatevers
Bruce Mowbray: What I love about the "infinite gates" is that the circle drawn by that concept includes everything.
Lugh Fehr: everything came from nothing - nothing means no law for creation and no law to hold back creation so it is and it’s not heheh
Bruce Mowbray: all methods are valid....
Bruce Mowbray: one of my very best friends in RL is doing five consecutive life sentences. . . in a state prison.
Lugh Fehr: uww harsh
Bruce Mowbray: That seems to be a strange "method" -- but at the same time, he has become one of the most "enlightened" folks I know. . .
Bruce Mowbray: So, prison has become his "method."
Pila Mulligan: his monastery
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, his monastery and his ashram.
Bruce Mowbray: Thirty years ago, my wife and I held meditation sessions at that prison, where we were both employed.
Bruce Mowbray: Now there is a Prison Dharma Network. . . working in many prisons throughout America.
Pila Mulligan: it is an excellent idea
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmm. . . Folks, I should be moving on. . .

--BELL—

Bruce Mowbray: Is that OK with both of you?
Lugh Fehr: dharma is on the rise hehe
Pila Mulligan: have a nice meeting Bruce -- good to see you
Lugh Fehr: no - you got to stay!  heheh
Lugh Fehr: bye-bye have fun
Bruce Mowbray: May you both be well and happy today.
Pila Mulligan: same to you :)
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
Lugh Fehr: :D you too mate
Pila Mulligan: bye
Pila Mulligan: Lugh, may I ask where you are in RL?
Lugh Fehr: I’m in Malta
Lugh Fehr: you?
Pila Mulligan: cool, I'm in Hawaii
Pila Mulligan: also an island
Lugh Fehr: yeahhh far cooler
Pila Mulligan: :)
Lugh Fehr: nice - I never met a guy from Hawaii
Pila Mulligan: nice to meet you
Pila Mulligan: are you familiar with shaka?
Lugh Fehr: you too I would shake your hand but I don’t have the animation for it
Lugh Fehr: shaka ?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: it is a Hawaiian term shaka = everything’s cool
Pila Mulligan: it has drifted into Reggae also some
Lugh Fehr: cool - shaka - I like it. I might have to adopt it
Pila Mulligan: the hand gesture for shaka is the thumb and little finger extended
Pila Mulligan: other fingers closed
Lugh Fehr: ohhh the surfer dudes thing
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_sign
Lugh Fehr: aloha
Pila Mulligan: :)
Lugh Fehr: heheh you got cool culture over there -  not spoiled by the medieval Christianity
Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
Pila Mulligan: well, they tried here too but not until the 1800's
Pila Mulligan: when they 'discovered' Hawaii
Lugh Fehr: heheheh yeah I love that term ‘discovered’
Pila Mulligan: really
Lugh Fehr: nah sarcastically
Pila Mulligan: like it did not exist until white person saw it
Pila Mulligan: hi Hana
Hana Furlough: Hi Pila and Lugh
Pila Mulligan: how are you
Hana Furlough: Pardon me, but off to the Working Group meeting
Pila Mulligan: ok
Hana Furlough: see you soon!
Pila Mulligan: have fun :)
Lugh Fehr: hehhe the Roman Empire thought it was civilized that’s why we think we are civilized, stupid notion
Lugh Fehr: hey Hana
Lugh Fehr: bye
Lugh Fehr: the Romans still rule
Pila Mulligan: many human minds seem to avoid quiet and stillness, they stay very busy thinking
Pila Mulligan: all that thinking leads to lots of activity
Pila Mulligan: some of it is pretty confused
Lugh Fehr: evolution takes its course all necessary in the journey of the world ... necessary for what who knows?
Pila Mulligan: necessarily a result of all that came before
Lugh Fehr: heheh true true
Pila Mulligan: :)
Lugh Fehr: ever heard the alchemy stages?
Pila Mulligan: not sure ... what are they?
Lugh Fehr: alchemy is the art of turning metals into gold ...well it was disguised like that to save themselves from the inquisition it is the art of the transforming human being
Lugh Fehr: like the art of flowering
Pila Mulligan: ok

--BELL—

Lugh Fehr: the end of it the enlightenment was called the philosopher's stone
Lugh Fehr: hehhe you can find it today in Harry Potter hehhe
Pila Mulligan: there is a similar idea in a Chinese book named 'The Secret of the Golden Flower'
Pila Mulligan: personal alchemy through meditation
Lugh Fehr: imagine that do you believe in enlightenment? I think you have to smile and pet the lion’s mane while it eats you. yeah I never heard of the book
Lugh Fehr: I will search for it.  I’ll save the name
Pila Mulligan: well, enlightenment is a term with lots of possible meanings
Pila Mulligan: I think there are higher and lower stages of awareness
Pila Mulligan: maybe healthy and unhealthy would do as well
Lugh Fehr: well I don’t think its healthier though
Lugh Fehr: its different
Lugh Fehr: but in a way everyone looks for it
Lugh Fehr: so it is what they’re looking for
Lugh Fehr: they just don’t know it in some sense
Pila Mulligan: I relate enlightenment or higher awareness to a person's well being
Lugh Fehr: true in a sense
Lugh Fehr: but have you ever played a shoot 'em up game that you cannot lose?
Qt Core: Hi all
Pila Mulligan: hi QT
Lugh Fehr: it's boring
Lugh Fehr: hey qt
Lugh Fehr: to move on we got to have hatred pushing us and love pulling us
Lugh Fehr: and you can’t have one without the other
Pila Mulligan: interesting idea
Qt Core: can't we just have curiosity vs wisdom?
Qt Core: but you can see curiosity as hatred for ignorance
Lugh Fehr: curiosity is the love of wisdom so they are both pullers
Qt Core: isn't curiosity the love of knowledge, not exactly wisdom?
Lugh Fehr: well a bit of both I would say hehe
Lugh Fehr: well no you're right
Lugh Fehr: you can’t know what wisdom is out there until it's yours so you can't be curious
Lugh Fehr: but you can know what knowledge is there that you don’t have
Lugh Fehr: you believe in enlightenment qt?
Qt Core: what kind of enlightenment?
Lugh Fehr: what kind you believe in?

--BELL—

Qt Core: maybe only in the "lesser" form of your background brain activity solving question/problems you seem to have difficulties with foreground thinking
Pila Mulligan: are those science terms QT, foreground and background brain activity?
Qt Core: more computer related
Pila Mulligan: ok
Lugh Fehr: well does it have to do with thinking?
Qt Core: they can be related to conscious and unconscious we may say
Lugh Fehr: :)
Qt Core: being a programmer I find easy (maybe too easy) to explain the mind with computer terms
Lugh Fehr: hehehe my dad is a programmer ... cool
Lugh Fehr: (shaka)
Lugh Fehr: hehhe
Pila Mulligan: :)
Lugh Fehr: how would a person act if he is enlightened and being eaten alive?
Qt Core: worrying about his clothes and metal jewelry being bad for the animal ?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Lugh Fehr: heheh
Lugh Fehr: so competition plays a big part of your enlightenment
Qt Core: it was mainly a joke, but yes
Lugh Fehr: hehehe :)
Qt Core: being less silly I think he should fight, if (as a silly death like that would) not being "useful"
Lugh Fehr: so an enlightened being has something to achieve?
Qt Core: horrible grammar, sorry
Lugh Fehr: hehhe I wouldn’t notice hehe
Lugh Fehr: what has he to achieve?
Pila Mulligan: that is probably one of the important elements of the Bhagavad-Gita, a Hindu classic
Qt Core: not necessarily, but being eaten would surely lack one
Qt Core: (goal I mean)
Pila Mulligan: fight when it is your karma to fight
Qt Core: put that way karma seems much like fate
Lugh Fehr: I think enlightenment is the lack of all goals.  He may fight for the hell of it to see if he can beat a lion, but when he fails he smiles and pets the lion’s mane
Lugh Fehr: karma I think is an illusion.  that’s why some people are free from it.  It is said karma is your doing.  Love gives you happiness hate gives you sorrow.  That’s all the karma there is, I think
Lugh Fehr: there is no wrong or right to do.  being is play hehehe
Pila Mulligan: well, then fighting could also be play
Lugh Fehr: yes why else would there be war? Hehhe

--BELL—

Lugh Fehr: and all the fighting computer games
Pila Mulligan: but in the Bhagavad-Gita Krishna explains that karma can also be in the momentum of a situation you are presented with
Lugh Fehr: how so can you give an example?
Pila Mulligan: well, in the story of the Bhagavad-Gita, several brothers have returned from exile to find that their cousins stole their land
Pila Mulligan: they are arrayed on the battlefield as a result, about to start fighting
Pila Mulligan: Krishna is driving the chariot for Arjuna
Pila Mulligan: Arjuna complains that he does not want to fight his cousin
Pila Mulligan: Krishna explains that the situation has put them in the position of fighting
Pila Mulligan: so do your best, says Krishna
Pila Mulligan: it’s your karma
Pila Mulligan: a quick example, it has more detail in the book :)
Lugh Fehr: but my point is Hindus say all is god so there is no land to protect and no honor
Lugh Fehr: we are all one playing as many
Pila Mulligan: but Hindus have fought a lot in history
Pila Mulligan: in the big picture, perhaps
Lugh Fehr: yes but not all Hindus are enlightened
Lugh Fehr: and even so
Pila Mulligan: :)
Lugh Fehr: an enlightened man can choose to fight - but its a choice, not karma
Lugh Fehr: karma is that which moves the unenlightened
Lugh Fehr: then I think you become the avatar of god being in a dream and realizing so .. so you can do anything - fly become a butterfly etc.
Lugh Fehr: like Christ walking on water
Lugh Fehr: hehhe ook - i know i’m speaking too much hehhe
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: I think each person has their own mythology of life, where they organize their expereince and give meaning to things
Qt Core: or die while trying to :-)
Lugh Fehr: :)
Pila Mulligan must be going -- it was nice to chat with you both --
Lugh Fehr: bye Pila
Qt Core: Bye Pila, have fun
Lugh Fehr: gn
Pila Mulligan: bye for now :)
Lugh Fehr: gn as in I soon sleep
Lugh Fehr: hehhe
Lugh Fehr: he’s like 7 hours away
Lugh Fehr: in time

--BELL—

Qt Core: well, almost sleeptime for me too
Lugh Fehr: where you at?
Qt Core: Italy
Qt Core: you?
Lugh Fehr: ahh close  - which part? if you don’t mind me asking
Lugh Fehr: me Malta
Qt Core: Milan
Qt Core: we have another Maltese around here
Lugh Fehr: ah the furthest possible from me
Lugh Fehr: yeah I heard I never met a Maltese in SL
Lugh Fehr: what the name? 
Qt Core: Arabella - Ara (have doubts on the last name at the moment)
Lugh Fehr: oh she Maltese -  I met her!  heheh I met my first Maltese - yay!!
Lugh Fehr: I won’t say stupid Maltese stuff when she’s around.  I usually do.  No one can understand a word heh
Qt Core: ;-)
Lugh Fehr: bon notte mio amico mi torno al riposo
Lugh Fehr: hehhe
Qt Core: buonanotte
Qt Core: I should too
Lugh Fehr: heheh gn
Lugh Fehr: cya :D nice chat