2011.02.03 01:00 - Teaching and Music

The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado.Present were Eggsalad Ormstein (briefly) Kit Ciaco, oo0oo Resident and myself

Introductions and topic deliberation:

Kit Ciaco: Hi, Zen
Zen Arado: Hi Kit:)
Zen Arado: Hi Eggsalad
eggsalad Ormstein: hi zen. is there a topic?
Zen Arado: have you one you'd like to discuss Eggsalad?
eggsalad Ormstein: no, I usually pop in and join whatever's going on
Zen Arado: could discuss enlightenment?
Zen Arado: that's our topic for Ways of Knowing tonight
Zen Arado: Hi Sam :)
oO0Oo Resident: Hello Zen, Trevor, eggsalad, Kit and Kaboodle! :)
Zen Arado: it's a rather difficult topic though
eggsalad Ormstein: hi sam
Zen Arado: I don't see Trevor?
eggsalad Ormstein: he's 300m from here :)
eggsalad Ormstein: you may want to shout
Zen Arado: ok :)
oO0Oo Resident: my fault, sorry
oO0Oo Resident: near sighted in including the far and near
Zen Arado: it's good to be inclusive
oO0Oo Resident: ty , yes Zen
oO0Oo Resident contemplates symmetry of seating
Zen Arado: or how about meditation as a topic?
Kit Ciaco just sits comfortably.....

About teaching...:

Zen Arado: I feel as if I am the teacher now and I'm not qualified :)
Zen Arado: I used to be a training instructor in power stations
Kit Ciaco: I wonder....
Zen Arado: but you might not want to hear about how boilers and turbines work :)
Kit Ciaco: are teachers not really merely fellow travelers?
Zen Arado: true
Kit Ciaco: so - we just travel together....
Kit Ciaco: without barriers?
oO0Oo Resident: trevor is now at 291 m for those that are interested
Kit Ciaco: as a college instructor I always learned as much if not more than my students
Zen Arado: maybe we need some barriers too
Kit Ciaco: after awhile I simply dismissed most of the tiers
Zen Arado: yes Kit
Kit Ciaco: between you and us?
Zen Arado: and by teaching you learn
Zen Arado: best way to learn maybe
Kit Ciaco: and vice verse....
Kit Ciaco: and a big difference between being taught and learning...
Zen Arado: though the stuff I taught was pretty straightforward and technical
Kit Ciaco: one active, the other passive....
Zen Arado: Socratic dialogue
Kit Ciaco: much difference between teaching skill sets and other things....
Zen Arado: what did you teach Kit?
Kit Ciaco: oh, human service mostly
Kit Ciaco: sociology
Kit Ciaco: psychology
Kit Ciaco: social work
Kit Ciaco: I also taught in community programs
Zen Arado: so interesting
Kit Ciaco: guitar, stress management, codepenency, that sort of thing
Zen Arado: you don't do that now?
Kit Ciaco: yes - but not in college
Zen Arado: ok
Kit Ciaco: recently retired.....

Classical guitar:

Zen Arado: I used to learn classical guitar
Zen Arado: ah ok
Kit Ciaco: yes!
Zen Arado: love the instrument
Kit Ciaco: me, too
Kit Ciaco: I've played nearly 40 years
Kit Ciaco: recently retuned my guitars to diatonic tuning
Kit Ciaco: VERY cool for playing melodies with ambience
Zen Arado: I went to a Spanish classical guitarist in Sydney Australia for lessons
Zen Arado: yes and the tones you get
Kit Ciaco: LOL - not me - totally self taught, and sitting at the feet of anyone who would let me sit with them
Zen Arado: and I took it up again at a local music school years later here in N.Ireland
eggsalad Ormstein: sorry, I'm really lost. Good day.
Zen Arado: sorry eggsalad
Zen Arado: hope we aren't boring you too Sam?
oO0Oo Resident: can I share a favourite classical performance on Youtube with you? 3 min 38 sec?
oO0Oo Resident: http://is.gd/0xpvJ3
Zen Arado: sure Sam
Zen Arado: I was first entranced by Segovia
Zen Arado: ah yes nice Sam
oO0Oo Resident: you got the link Kit?
oO0Oo Resident smiles at observerm, and notes Trev at 291 m and holding
Zen Arado: reminds me of another young guy called Sungha Jung
Zen Arado: though he isn't quite classical
oO0Oo Resident: brb...;)
Zen Arado: this is Segovia
Zen Arado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8EDpJ-aIM8
Zen Arado: guitar needs hours of practice though
Zen Arado: I had to give up because I lost strength in my left hand
oO0Oo Resident: back, listening Zen
Zen Arado: wonder what diatonic tuning is?
Zen Arado: Segovia was the person responsible for making the classical guitar so popular
Kit Ciaco: diatonic tuning is essentially taking a few notes out of the scale so that all notes played sound good together
Kit Ciaco: like a dulcimer
Zen Arado: though it has lost a lot of that since the eighties I think
Kit Ciaco: or dulcitar
Kit Ciaco: which I make those....
Zen Arado: so you retune some of the strings?
Kit Ciaco: absolutely!!!!!
Zen Arado: classical guitarists usually only lower the lower E string to G if I remember corectly
Zen Arado: sometimes
Kit Ciaco: I have no idea
Zen Arado: didn't Joni Mitchell play a dulcimer? (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4foLKDlcE)
Zen Arado: or is that different instrument?
Kit Ciaco: I'm not a classical guitarist - I just play what feels comfortable to me....
Kit Ciaco: I'm not sure
Zen Arado: yes sure
Kit Ciaco: I don't actually play dulcimer
Kit Ciaco: I made one once
Kit Ciaco: but I build and play dulcitars
oO0Oo Resident: mmm, nice segovia piece Zen
Zen Arado: some Bach sounds better on classical guitar I think
Zen Arado: my favourite is the Chaconne from the second violin partita
Zen Arado: have you heard that?
Zen Arado: it is quite long though
oO0Oo Resident: don't think so ~ will be checking for it though
oO0Oo Resident: I like Bach
Zen Arado: but so much better if heard live
Zen Arado: I saw Segovia play a concert in Sydney Town hall
Zen Arado: absolutely no amplification
oO0Oo Resident: that's as live as it gets... unplugged they say nowadays

SL concerts:

Zen Arado: you could play for us in SL some time Kit?
Zen Arado: yes Sam:)
Zen Arado: we can have a Pab concert some time maybe
Kit Ciaco: I'll be giving a flute concert this Saturday at my dojo!
Kit Ciaco: 5:30 sl time!
Zen Arado: great !
Kit Ciaco: some folks have suggested a Pab concert but I haven't heard anything specific
Kit Ciaco: I've begun working with another VERY talented in world musician as well, asn we'll be doing some concerts, too
Kit Ciaco: we're working on an album currently
Zen Arado: 5.30 pm?
Zen Arado: a bit late for me :(
Zen Arado: !.30 am
oO0Oo Resident: brb... could crash...
Zen Arado: oh Sam
Kit Ciaco: sorry.....
Zen Arado: so many talented people in SL and Pab
Zen Arado: wonder how you co ordinate the sound?
Zen Arado: if you are in different locations
Kit Ciaco: he's going to do it through his gadgetry....
Kit Ciaco: we did it tonight - awesome stuff!
Zen Arado: there are music synthesizers and programs online
Zen Arado: I must try that sometime
oO0Oo Resident: back ( if tentatively... )
Zen Arado: wb Sam
Kit Ciaco: Yes - my partner in crime is up on all of those and will be handling all the tech stuff - I'm just there for my flutes and cute face....
Zen Arado: maybe we could have a music theme meeting
Zen Arado: everyone plays something that means a lot to them
Zen Arado: and even better of they play their own instrument
Zen Arado: :)
Kit Ciaco: that would be fascinating!
Kit Ciaco: do many people have their own instruments in sl?
Zen Arado: don't know but I suspect there are many
Zen Arado: Sunshine was talking about playing violin last night
Zen Arado: you can buy instruments in SL that play tunes
Kit Ciaco: yes
Zen Arado: had a friend with a concert grand piano
Zen Arado: but she played piano in RL
Kit Ciaco: I prefer making my own.... most of the sl instruments play recorded "canned" music - quite well, some of them - but I like playing my own instruments....
Zen Arado: yes unfortunately true

Professionals and amateurs:

Zen Arado: far better if we can play something even if not as perfect as a great professional
Zen Arado: we seem to have lost a lot of that
Zen Arado: so much dependence on recordings
Kit Ciaco: I wouldn't know a thing about playing professionally - I just play my heart, flawed and ragged....
Zen Arado: yes of course
Zen Arado: there's a great tradition of playing music in pubs in Ireland
Kit Ciaco: I expect there is a place for classical music as well as folk....
Kit Ciaco: "perfect" and flawed....
Zen Arado: I like all sorts
Kit Ciaco: I just like home grown music better - personal taste....
Zen Arado: though I am not that keen on traditional Irish music :)
Kit Ciaco: really!
Kit Ciaco: You don't play the pennywhistle, then?
Zen Arado: 'diddley di' music we call it :)
Zen Arado: nope
oO0Oo Resident: The word 'amateur'comes from a French word meaning: "lover of"
Zen Arado: yes Sam
oO0Oo Resident: Trev steady at 291 m
Zen Arado: the love is the main thing
Kit Ciaco: I prefer to not distinguish between pro and am
Zen Arado: :)
oO0Oo Resident nods
Kit Ciaco: just take it all for what it is....
Zen Arado: yes Kit
Zen Arado: realizing looking back I worried too much about making mistakes when I was playing
Zen Arado: was too perfectionist
Kit Ciaco: Mistakes are undervalued in true music
Kit Ciaco: at any rate - I need to go
Kit Ciaco: thank you for your time
Zen Arado: thanks for coming Kit
Kit Ciaco: see ya!
Zen Arado: bye
oO0Oo Resident: tc Kit, nice to see you
oO0Oo Resident: dependence on recordings... hadn't really thought about that Zen, but it makes sense
Zen Arado: yes and maybe that makes us too perfectionist
Zen Arado: music made in huge studios
Zen Arado: with big consoles to tweak everything
Zen Arado: we rarely hear live music nowadays
Zen Arado: you know I have never been to a symphony concert since I came back to Ireland

Communal music:

oO0Oo Resident: yes... questions of public commons, and societal structures, depending on where people live, and then also, the growth of IT means many many more people can produce their own stuff
Zen Arado: public commons?
oO0Oo Resident: well, shifts away from communal spaces, means less folksy interactions...storytelling, music sharing
Zen Arado: ah ok
Zen Arado: and everything organized for us 

oO0Oo Resident: we become more compartmentalised
Zen Arado: we have lost that in the North of Ireland I think
oO0Oo Resident: each with their earphones you know... rather than round the fire singing
Zen Arado: I had an English friend came to see me last year and he wanted to hear some traditional music
Zen Arado: I didn't know anywhere to go for that....
oO0Oo Resident listens
Zen Arado: I'm sure there are places but not so common now
Zen Arado: living in the north of Ireland I feel more British than Irish I guess
oO0Oo Resident: Yes, revivals are happening in places that are less well advertised I suspect
Zen Arado: yes - if you advertised it too much it would be spoiled
oO0Oo Resident: thats the paradox
oO0Oo Resident: mention a special place, or person, or thing, and soon it is overrun

Painting, creativity and life:

Zen Arado: painting gives me an outlet for creativity
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: if I had more time and energy....
oO0Oo Resident: with words, it might look like this quote:
oO0Oo Resident: Among my most prized possessions are the words that I have never spoken. -- Orson Rega Card
Zen Arado: good quote Sam
oO0Oo Resident: painting Zen... wonderful
Zen Arado: I am in a static place with that atm
Zen Arado: I got tired of traditional landscapes
Zen Arado: and am venturing into abstraction
Zen Arado: again trying to be less interested in selling
Zen Arado: or being 'professional'
oO0Oo Resident: thinking of the similarities to the path of life to what you said Zen
Zen Arado: yes sam
Zen Arado: the same issues crop up in many areas don't they?
oO0Oo Resident: somehow the landscape and the abstract together
Zen Arado: being authentic maybe
Zen Arado: find semi abstract difficult
Zen Arado: but maybe false distinctions
oO0Oo Resident: I may be lucky enough not to understand
oO0Oo Resident: ;)
Zen Arado: understanding is overrated I think :)
Zen Arado: applying this to my meditation practice lately
Zen Arado: getting away from ideas of self improvement

Teachers for spiritual practice:

oO0Oo Resident: Do you have someone to confer with in your practice Zen?
Zen Arado: I have a teacher but he lives in San Francisco
Zen Arado: only see him at retreats
Zen Arado: thogh can get phone sessions sometimes
Zen Arado: don't like those much
Zen Arado: do you think teachers are important Sam?
Zen Arado: you have one?
oO0Oo Resident: I think they are, and I have had some in my life. At the same time, it feels as though it is a partnership and alignment with ones own inner wisdom, rather than a defering to outer power
oO0Oo Resident: that a lesson for me too along te way
Zen Arado: "alignment with ones own inner wisdom"
Zen Arado: like that Sam
Zen Arado: you are a teacher
oO0Oo Resident: more an abstraction, less the landscape kind
oO0Oo Resident: and a reflection of your own understanding only
Zen Arado: I feel you have much more experience and insight than me
Zen Arado: I am groping in the dark with Zen
Zen Arado: and life

Working with our storylines:

oO0Oo Resident: I don't think feel that is or can be true, but we have our storylines to work with, each of us
oO0Oo Resident: is it depression Zen?
Zen Arado: yes - the storylines we cling to
Zen Arado: no
Zen Arado: I can work with that
Zen Arado: I don't listen to the stories so much now
oO0Oo Resident: Pema Chodrons pith advice to retreatants comes to mind
Zen Arado: we get to know the way the mind affects the body and emotions
oO0Oo Resident: at least one of the 4 or five statements
Zen Arado: yes?
oO0Oo Resident: "don't believe your thoughts"
Zen Arado: yes
oO0Oo Resident: it seems strange
oO0Oo Resident: and counter to survival in a way
oO0Oo Resident: but... hey
oO0Oo Resident: it's Pema
Zen Arado: yes she's great
oO0Oo Resident: :)))!!!!
Zen Arado: they say the same things in Zen too
Zen Arado: just in a different way
oO0Oo Resident: yes
oO0Oo Resident: so nice to hear all the ways
oO0Oo Resident: so helpful
Zen Arado: reinforces the message
--BELL--
Zen Arado: I better go
Zen Arado: nice talking to you again Sam
Zen Arado: as usual
oO0Oo Resident: don't forget to "stay" as pema says ;) tc Zen Great to see you again.
Zen Arado: yes :)
Zen Arado: might see you later at WoK
Zen Arado: bye
oO0Oo Resident: bye! :)))