This was a special session to discuss Chapter 11 of the book "the Magic of Time" and the reports for this week.

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Pema Pera: hi Hokon, Sufi!
cybersufi Resident: hey pema
Pema Pera: and hi Bruce!
Hokon Cazalet: hi bruce
cybersufi Resident: did you enjoy the stories
Pema Pera: ah, I haven't read them yet :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Pema, Hokon, and Cybersufi.
cybersufi Resident: hi bruce
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: Good Morning Everyone :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Eliza and Bleu.
Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
Pema Pera: hi Bleu and Eliza1
cybersufi Resident: good morning mis eliza lol
Pema Pera: Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal looks for Eliza2
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Riddle.
Pema Pera: hi Riddle!
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Riddle Sideways: good morning all
Eliza Madrigal: I haven't been able to see myself as other than a cloud here for a few days... but when I leave the sim I appear, very strange
Bruce Mowbray: You look fine to me, Eliza.
Pema Pera: 2 me 2 Eliza
cybersufi Resident: a ha a cloud of unknowing very apt
Bruce Mowbray looks at Eliza's edges.
Pema Pera: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: yes? okay...
Eliza Madrigal: :)Cyber
Pema Pera: hi Maxine!
--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Maxine.
Maxine Walden: hi, Bruce
Maxine Walden: hi, everyone
Riddle Sideways: Hi Maxine
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine :) okay, I will accept the feedback that I am 'seen' though cannot see that myself
Pema Pera: Hokon and Cybersufi, do you know about the Time sessions, that we are holding here every Friday morning at this time?
Pema Pera: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions
cybersufi Resident: yes
Pema Pera: Today we talk about the reports: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2011%2F%2F02%2F%2F11:_Reports
Pema Pera: about the first part of chapter 11, on Space
Pema Pera: Riddle, I just loved that one sentence you wrote, about the impossible figure that your father drew when you were very young: "Probably first knowing that what is seen might not be the only way of seeing."
Pema Pera: lucky to have such a father, too :)
Hokon Cazalet: ok
Hokon Cazalet clicks link
Riddle Sideways: was very lucky to have that father
Pema Pera: (would anybody like to volunteer, to post the chat log for today?)
Riddle Sideways: ty blu
Pema Pera: thanks a lot, Bleu!
Maxine Walden: yes, thanks bleu
Pema Pera: and I also loved the negative space in the bookshelves, Bleu!
Maxine Walden: thought all the postings were creative, nice to read
Eliza Madrigal: ty Bleu, and *such* a nice report Riddle... was impressed with everyone's reports... yummy
Pema Pera: yes, such a treasure trove . . . Bruce's great winter photo
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: Eliza's tree of life
Riddle Sideways: Eliza, did your daugther really say that about the tree?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, evidently that's what the school calls it :)
Pema Pera: maxine's chair and michelangelo's slaves :)
Eliza Madrigal: I just didn't Know
Pema Pera: I guess it called you, Eliza!
Bruce Mowbray: hey, druth.
Pema Pera: hi Druth!
Eliza Madrigal: :) edges of nature
druth Vlodovic: hi guys
Bleu Oleander: hi Druth
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth :)
Riddle Sideways: little sparrows trying to get seeds out
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: amazin how a freezing picture can look so warm Bruce
Maxine Walden: yes, the emotions Bruce touches on are so warming, at least for me
Bruce Mowbray tried to "trade spaces" with the edges of things outside his window.
Riddle Sideways: most of us concentrated on one edge, Pema got to see the simular roof edges
Bleu Oleander: become as if the edges .... :)
Bruce Mowbray: Play as Edge
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: all I saw today were branches, while walking to work in 19 degree weather (-12 C) . . . a brisk half hour walk
Pema Pera: from guest house to office (I stayed over in Princeton)
Riddle Sideways: no train?
Eliza Madrigal: aedges of movement seems tricky to show... landscape moving, not train...
Eliza Madrigal: *edges
Pema Pera: btw, in Riddle's bottom figure, many text books say that you can see only one interpretation, faces or glass, but I have the feeling that I can see both at once, with a bit of training
Pema Pera: how about you all ?
Pema Pera: at first it flips
Pema Pera: from faces to glass and back
Pema Pera: but after a while it can stabilize, more or less, it seems
Hokon Cazalet: im unable to see both at once, at best i alternate between the two quickly, or it becomes kinda formless
Riddle Sideways: yes, at first it flips. then quicker flips
Maxine Walden: yes, have seen that many times, and can see both at once now
Eliza Madrigal: yes there is this kind of nervous tension because you can't help but see both at once ...
cybersufi Resident: I've said before that every craftsman searches for what's not there to practice his craft. A builder looks for the rotten hole where the roof caved in. A water-carrier picks the empty pot. A carpenter stops at the house with no door. Workers rush toward some hint of emptiness, which they then start to fill. Their hope, though, is for emptiness, so don't think you must avoid it. It contains what you need! Rumi
Riddle Sideways: BUT, do you see the box/frame/space they are both in
Pema Pera: nice, Riddle!
Maxine Walden: thanks, cyber, for that Rumi
Pema Pera: looking through a window, then (Riddle's box) seeing two people trying to kiss each other with a glass in between?
Pema Pera: (yes, thanks, Cyber)
Maxine Walden: lovely Rumi, cyber
--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Benoit Mandelbrot (IBM mathematician, discoverer of fractal geometry) says that the coastline [edge] of any country is infinitely long. But his notion of what an "edge" is differs from ours. . . (maybe).
cybersufi Resident: he was very good at describing those difficult feelings
Pema Pera: infinitely up to a point . . . but yes, I think that fits very nicely with our discussion
Zen Arado: Hi all
Pema Pera: hi Zen!
Riddle Sideways: Hi Zen
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
cybersufi Resident: Hi Zen
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Zen.
cybersufi Resident: I may test you on that later Zen lol
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, cala.
Pema Pera: hi Cala!
cala Lacrima: hi
Riddle Sideways: Hi Cala, good thing that does not hurt druth
Bleu Oleander: hi cala
cala Lacrima: hi ,all
druth Vlodovic: a coastline is a sort of vague edge
Riddle Sideways: And with the waves going in and out the coast line changes all the time
Bruce Mowbray: Are countries "made" by their interface coasts - - ?
Bleu Oleander: a dynamic edge
Zen Arado: the more you look at things the more they expand
Bruce Mowbray: or something even more imaginary?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Riddle Sideways: no countries are made by silly map makers
Bruce Mowbray: ;-) agrees.
Zen Arado: Hi Eliza :)
Pema Pera: yes, Zen, each one can become infinite
Maxine Walden: agree, Riddle, (whispers about what is making Egypt right now)
Eliza Madrigal: oh, and hello Cala... seem to have some lag...
Maxine Walden: perhaps new ways of seeing, new concepts remake edges, define countries
Bruce Mowbray ponders "expansion" -- and a continuum of edge embracing everything.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
druth Vlodovic: when I was thinking of edges I kept thinking of the concept that something does not effectively exist if it can't be detected or affect thing, and the corollary, that it must exist if it can
Zen Arado: kinda like impermanence - can't poin things down
Zen Arado: pin*
Bleu Oleander: maybe there are no edges ... only limited ways of seeing?
Maxine Walden: (sorry, think I may be introducing a confusion about 'ways of seeing' which may divert us from this current practice)
Riddle Sideways: not sure, maxine
Pema Pera: effectively existing is an interesting notion . . .
cybersufi Resident: I died from minerality and became vegetable; And From vegetativeness I died and became animal. I died from animality and became man. Then why fear disappearance through death? Next time I shall die Bringing forth wings and feathers like angels; After that, soaring higher than angels - What you cannot imagine, I shall be that.
Eliza Madrigal thinks of another rumi that reads something like 'rubies apear in the (empty) begging bowl, but don't brag about it.... (pin it down tor take it to be about yourself)
Pema Pera: oh, I don't think you're diverting, Maxine :-)
Zen Arado: nice cyber
Maxine Walden: (hard for me to get 'Egypt on the edge of transformation' out of my mind)
Eliza Madrigal: definitely Maxine, not at all a diversion
Pema Pera: ah, that is nice, a temporal edge!
cybersufi Resident: Man makes his own boundaries, shake them off
Pema Pera: and then there are edges of awareness, too
Maxine Walden: indeed, Pema
Pema Pera: chapters 12 and 13 :)
Maxine Walden: :))
Maxine Walden: edges to come...?
Pema Pera: now, would Being have edges . . . .
Maxine Walden: hmm
Pema Pera: a riddle !
Pema Pera: :-)
cybersufi Resident: Imagine you are a small ball of light inside your head!
cybersufi Resident: then fill your head!
Riddle Sideways: ever so small edges. edges between the pixels we stare at. Yet, looking past those edges we might see a hole
Pema Pera: and then continue, Cyber?
cybersufi Resident: then fill this room!
Eliza Madrigal: edges would have to be some'place'...
Pema Pera: nice exploration :)
cybersufi Resident: and yes continue till you fill all the space there is.
Bleu Oleander: being is edgeless
Hokon Cazalet: Being is conceptually bound by Nothing, and vice versa
Pema Pera: I just did Cyber's experiment, feels very calming
Bruce Mowbray ponders cyber's edge expansion continuum . . .
cybersufi Resident: and then suddenly you will be aware that your where there all along
Pema Pera: I started with two centers, head and heart, and let the two coalesce
Pema Pera: light felt like awareness
Pema Pera: shining out and shining in
Pema Pera: as a soft glow
Pema Pera: thank you, Cyber!
Pema Pera: shall we all do this, during the next break, 90 seconds?
Riddle Sideways: hard to type while doing that exercise
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: sure
Bruce Mowbray: Let's all do it, yes.
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: let your fingers be light, perhaps, Riddle?
cybersufi Resident: to recover your orignal energy is called Turning the light around
--BELL--

Riddle Sideways: funny, had the idea that I would experience the same as you
Riddle Sideways: but, at the bell I sneezed
cybersufi Resident: rumi said 'Beyond yes and no, good and bad, there is a feild, I will meet you there?
Riddle Sideways: and lungs and throat were
Riddle Sideways: filled and got bigger
Maxine Walden: I'd like to say I had a smooth journey, letting the light and awareness coelesce, but there were bits of edgy awareness as if from old voices at the edges as it were of the expanding light
Riddle Sideways: oooooo like that rumi, Cyber
cybersufi Resident: well thats normal
cybersufi Resident: the trick is as allan Watts put it to consider every noise you hear external or internal to be like a whistling kettle
Bruce Mowbray ponders the "edges" of the ield Beyond Right-thinking and Wrong-thinking.
Bruce Mowbray: field*
Pema Pera: nice, Bruce!!
Eliza Madrigal: I couldn't quite make myself a light in my head ... but it was a fun
Eliza Madrigal: thing to see
Pema Pera: Hi Merseia!
Pema Pera: come join us
Merseia Seferis: hi..:)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Merseia Seferis: let me rez a sec here
cybersufi Resident: you can always just feel your energy instead that warm hum inside
Eliza Madrigal: :) warm hum inside
Merseia Seferis: lol sorry for standing on you
Pema Pera: Hi Eve!
Merseia Seferis: lol Eliza
cybersufi Resident: its the whistleing kettle
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Marseia... I thnk you've been here before? Hi Evie...
cybersufi Resident: like white noise
Pema Pera: Hi Merseia and Eve: we are talking about the reports on web page http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2011%2F%2F02%2F%2F11:_Reports
Merseia Seferis: I came about a week ago I think Eliza
Merseia Seferis: ã‹¡
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes of course... now remember vividly, hello again :)
cybersufi Resident: Soul receives from soul that knowledge, therefore not by book nor from tongue. If knowledge of mysteries come after emptiness of mind, that is the illumination of heart, rumi again
Zen Arado: emptiness first
Zen Arado: we need to create space - empty ourselves
Maxine Walden: different ways of perceiving: poetic, cartographic, visual, kinesthetic
cybersufi Resident: we fiil ourself so much with the temporary we don't notice the permanance
Zen Arado: first priority
Bruce Mowbray: I liked what Pema said about the roofs in New Jersey: that without edges, they would fill the universe.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Maxine Walden: the containing boundaries of edges?
Bruce Mowbray: but imaginary - those boundaries.
Eliza Madrigal: I've always felt there is something magical about well-drawn outlines and sketches... leave lots of room and yet definition and precision...
cybersufi Resident: notice the edges of the pond here!
Hokon Cazalet: hehe me too eliza
druth Vlodovic: there, I have shrunk my coffee by drawing in it's edges, it can no longer make me move to the kitchen
Merseia Seferis: withou boundaries.....no movement?
Merseia Seferis: ã‹¡
cybersufi Resident: but if you got really close you would find that there is no clear edge just a fuzzy interaction
Zen Arado: I like to work from inside rather than lines
Bruce Mowbray: or WITH boundaries, no movement?
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Druth.. practical application
Riddle Sideways: liked drawing the space that is not the fork or chair
Bruce Mowbray: yes, cyber, a fuzzy interface interaction.
Riddle Sideways: working from the out
Hokon Cazalet: yeah cybersufi, clean edges are a geometric abstraction, an Idea
Riddle Sideways: the block of marble
Zen Arado: lines are just the interface not the thing
cybersufi Resident: as Zen says inside there are non of these forms, edges etc, and yet all movement flows from within
Merseia Seferis: no boundaries, no need to move cause you are everywhere, no?
Eliza Madrigal: ah... and there is my cue today. Apologies for ducking out early but due to new schedule here I was able to make an appt today and must get going for a bit.... (boundaries/movement)
Eliza Madrigal: Lovely to see everyone
Merseia Seferis: nice to see you again Eliza..:)
Zen Arado: take care Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Eliza! Thanks!
Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza
Maxine Walden: bye Eliza
Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
cybersufi Resident: bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal waves warmly
EveofDarkness Cosmos: bye bye for now Eliza
--BELL--

Riddle Sideways: bye eliza
druth Vlodovic: edges can detract from the object as well
cybersufi Resident: A Star Without a Name When a baby is taken from the wet nurse, it easily forgets her and starts eating solid food. Seeds feed awhile on ground, then lift up into the sun. So you should taste the filtered light and work your way toward wisdom with no personal covering. That's how you came here, like a star without a name. Move across the night sky with those anonymous lights. (Mathnawi III, 1284-1288)
Hokon Cazalet: yeah it can, as we focus on not the object as presented, but concepts bounding the object (such as space, Being, other etc)
Merseia Seferis: newborns prefer edges and contrasts, visually...we start that way
Zen Arado: is that a way of freezing reality - of making it manageable?
Merseia Seferis: maybe its the starting point, see poem above..:)
Hokon Cazalet: yeah contrast helps alot, allows the world to not be a lump of material, but has forms/substances
Hokon Cazalet: so allows us to plan, avoid danger, etc
Zen Arado: yes
Bleu Oleander: edges can be beautiful ... like a line drawing in the hands of a skilled artist
Zen Arado: then later we can dispense with thes
Hokon Cazalet: yup bleu =)
Zen Arado: or just use as necessary
Zen Arado: yes Bleu
Merseia Seferis: likes Hokon's evolutionary take on this
druth Vlodovic: I wonder if we like songs because it gives us repetition, not only boundries, but predictable ones, for a little while we know the world before it arrives
Hokon Cazalet: hehe =)
Zen Arado: maybe some see more by lines?
Pema Pera: ah yes, rhythm and edges!
Hokon Cazalet: yeah music is pretty hypnotic using repitition
Pema Pera: and yes, Hokon, in our nervous system, right after the retina pixels, there are hard-wired "edge detectors"
Hokon Cazalet: well without bounderies or limitation, youd have white noise
Bleu Oleander: creativity at the edge
Pema Pera: :-)
Merseia Seferis: empty space just as important as the edge....like dark matter and our matter
Bruce Mowbray: Do waves have edges?
Hokon Cazalet: well without empty space (negation) you wouldnt have edges, edges require a negation or limitation of something positive (filled space)
Bruce Mowbray: like sound waves. . .
Hokon Cazalet: so id agree mersela =)
cybersufi Resident: I can feel Wiggles and goo by Allan Watts coming on
Hokon Cazalet: physical waves have edges
Merseia Seferis: giggles at cybersufi
Bleu Oleander: are we at the edge of time?
Maxine Walden: And the edges of our new practices may need fine lines, protective boundaries to allow us to connect with our inner awareness
Hokon Cazalet: like water waves are bounded by the walls of the fish tank, or sound waves eventually become indistinguishable from background noise
Pema Pera: oh, nice, Maxine!
Hokon Cazalet: eh i guess the latter isnt an edge . . .
Hokon Cazalet: i think so maxine =) cool idea
Hokon Cazalet: i hadnt thought of that before
Zen Arado: keep thinking of the Hui.neng poem: Our body is the Bodhi Tree, And our mind is a bright mirror. At all times diligently wipe them, So that they will be free from dust. Shen-hsiu The Tree of Perfect Wisdom is originally no tree. Nor has the bright mirror any frame. Buddha-nature is forever clear and pure. Where is there any dust? Hui-neng
EveofDarkness Cosmos: have you ever pressed ctrl shift R in sl? we are made up of lines.. are they boundaries?
Bruce Mowbray: protection from what?
Zen Arado: dispensing with the framework
Maxine Walden: protection, Bruce, from the exuberance of others' experience which might obscure one's own growing inner voice
Merseia Seferis: wow ctrl/shift/R!!
Merseia Seferis: look and see now..:)
Hokon Cazalet: thats why i like philosophy and science Zen, as they dont hold any framework dogmatically; they follow a more buddhist view of transitoryness
Bruce Mowbray: ah! Thanks, Maxine.
Bruce Mowbray feels a lot of exuberance. . .
Zen Arado: sure Hokon
Merseia Seferis: likes maxine's idea of boundary as protection
Hokon Cazalet: hehe me too
Zen Arado: but aren't there a lot of frameworks there,,,but suppose they are detachable...
Zen Arado: a framework is a boundary to wok in
Pema Pera: hi Lucinda!
Hokon Cazalet: well in science frameworks can change, even radically (like einstienian physics superceeding newtonian), so it fits the buddhist notion of impermance (kinda)
Zen Arado: so gives a restriction that makes things more workable
Zen Arado: so we need them?
Bleu Oleander: hi Luci
Bruce Mowbray slips off to sitting at Peacemakers. . . THANKS everyone!
Pema Pera: (I'll have to go now, have a work appointment in two minutes)
Riddle Sideways: hi luci
Zen Arado: Hi Luci
Pema Pera: (nice seeing you all !!)
Zen Arado: bye Pema
Merseia Seferis: nice to see you Pema..:)
Hokon Cazalet: i think so zen, without a framework youd just have a lump of clay (metaphor)
Maxine Walden: I have to go as well.
Maxine Walden: bye all
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Everyone:)
Merseia Seferis: nice to meet you Maxine
Merseia Seferis: ã‹¡
Bleu Oleander: bye everyone who's leaving
Zen Arado: me too have to go
Pema Pera: and thank you for the beautiful and inspiring reports!
Hokon Cazalet: bye whoever is departing (seems to be alot)
Maxine Walden: yes, nice meeting several new faces