2011.02.10 07:00 - The wise and the knowledgeable

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

It's quiet for the first half hour.

Storm Nordwind: Hello Arch
Archmage Atlantis: Small circle today....and Good Morning Storm
Storm Nordwind: I was beginning to think I would leave without meeting anyone today
Storm Nordwind: Hello Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey-ya, Storm and Arch.
Archmage Atlantis: Well, depends who is defined as anyone, I suppose
Storm Nordwind nods and smiles

The upcoming SL retreat.

Storm Nordwind: What topics are pressing in people's minds, I wonder?
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmm. . . Well, Storm, I've been concerned about this weekend's retreat -- but things seem to be getting better defined now - so I'm feeling better about it this morning. . .
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Egypt, the space program, and what we leave for the future.......that and 80+ drivers in accidents
Archmage Atlantis: (silenc)
Storm Nordwind: I'm pleased to hear you're feeling better about it, Bruce. I have been rather out of the loop on the subject - I don't know the background really
Bruce Mowbray: np -- I think there have been several "loops" of discussion . . . (confusing me). . .
Bruce Mowbray: but now we seem to be on the same channel, and things are looking clearer.
Storm Nordwind: Multiple channels are always a problem when trying to synchronize people!

How are decisions made here?

Bruce Mowbray: I think my "problem" is that I don't yet understand how "decisions" are made in PaB. . .
Bruce Mowbray: Or, perhaps, they are made in a variety of ways -- some of which I'm not aware of.
Storm Nordwind: With as much devolvement as possible I think :)
Storm Nordwind: PaB is coming up to 3 years old
Bruce Mowbray is a big fan of devolution ;-)
Storm Nordwind: There was a time when there were very few people and Pema made many suggestions and we took them up
Storm Nordwind: Now there is a working group and a Kira sub-committee and home-grown groups for different projects
Storm Nordwind: And the retreats are part of that mix
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
Storm Nordwind: It's not Pema's project anymore. Instead, it's owned by us! :)
Storm Nordwind: Though Pema still makes a massive contribution - in more ways than one
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed . . .
Bruce Mowbray: Being of the Quaker tradition, I seek consensus in virtually all decision making. . .
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, we are aware of the monetary element
Bruce Mowbray: but I also realize that this seems like anarchy to some folks. . .
Storm Nordwind: There is strength in this little community
Storm Nordwind: Well, some people get insecure unless there is hierarchy and a figurehead

The wise and the knowledgeable!

Bruce Mowbray: and also that persons who are truly wise/knowledgeable about how things "should be done" should probably be given more weight in the decision process.
Storm Nordwind: Some people do prefer to be told what to do
Storm Nordwind: But as for wise and knowledgeable...
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, "hierarchy and figureheads" . . . We hermits have some trouble with that ;-)
Archmage Atlantis: That is a difficult issue, especially for me, as I do not believe in "should"
Storm Nordwind: None of us are indispensable
Archmage Atlantis: Yet I do look for consensus
Storm Nordwind agrees with Arch re: shoulds
Bruce Mowbray: I keep telling that to Blub. . .
Bruce Mowbray: but he blows bubbles at me . .
Archmage Atlantis: Smart fish :)
Bruce Mowbray: and then I "detatch" him -- to show him who the "wise figurehead" really is.
Archmage Atlantis: And he comes back.....to show you his point of view
Archmage Atlantis: :)

Involvement.

Storm Nordwind: Without involvement, there would be no one to continue carrying the torch.
Storm Nordwind: Without involvement, a project dies with its leaders
Storm Nordwind: Pema always wanted organic growth, even if that meant things were not in his control
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, that is apparent to me Storm
Bruce Mowbray: I really respect Pema on "organic growth" -- I like to call that "emergence" and "bottom-up" being.
Storm Nordwind smiles and nods
Bruce Mowbray: I think everything in nature grows "bottom-up" - if you get my meaning.
Storm Nordwind: yes. Though we have to be prepared to accept that part of growth is decay, and change, into something we may not at first recognize

Secular success.

Archmage Atlantis: There is a book, somewhere on my shelves, about successful corporations
Archmage Atlantis: They have a leader
Bruce Mowbray listens....
Archmage Atlantis: But the leader is invested in teaching others how to
--BELL--

A quote from Tennyson's Morte d'Athur.

Storm Nordwind: Even what is successful in commerce is changing now. Development of projects within a wider community, for example, instead of wholly owned by a company
Storm Nordwind: “The old order changeth, yielding place to new, And God fulfils himself in many ways, Lest one good custom should corrupt the world."
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, the second part of the successful leader is that he/she/e understands es own knowledge is finite and of the moment
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmm . . . That quote reminds me of the difference between thinking you have A way and thinking you have THE Way.
Archmage Atlantis: And others will be asked/allowed to carry the torch

Entrenchment and letting go.

Storm Nordwind: Even on a smaller vision level, I would teach people never to try and make themselves indispensable at work - and that's counterintuitive for some people
Storm Nordwind: I would remind that that a person who is indispensable cannot be promoted.
Storm Nordwind: From a more general point of view, it would inhibit change and growth, learning and richness
Bruce Mowbray: . . . also, by refusing promotions when they are offered, a person entrenches himself further in his notions of "indispensibility."
Storm Nordwind: Indeed
Archmage Atlantis: I wish that were so, Storm.....but a person who is dispensible can be let go......I have seen it often........and that is why people are the way they are, imo
Archmage Atlantis: There has to be a larger purpose
Storm Nordwind: yes I agree. On the other hand, being "let go" so often proves a great blessing
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it can.....it can also cause great suffering
Storm Nordwind: It often doesn't seems so at the time of course, especially when you're not used to it
Storm Nordwind: Well... you know... a Buddhist will see the source of that suffering as attachment! ;-)
Storm Nordwind: Though those people need compassion and not a lecture :)
Archmage Atlantis: And a life partner will see the source of that suffering as weakness
Archmage Atlantis: At times
Storm Nordwind: Would you care to elaborate Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: Another time, Storm....the hour is almost done
Storm Nordwind: I'll look forward to it :)
Archmage Atlantis: :)

Flying away.

Bruce Mowbray: Thank you to both of you -- This will be a full day for me -- running into town, haircut, banking, and other errands for the farmboy.
Storm Nordwind: Arch regrows his wings
Bruce Mowbray: Enjoy your day, Arch and Storm.
Storm Nordwind smiles
Storm Nordwind: You too, both!
Bruce Mowbray: BEAUTIFUL WINGS, Arch!