2011.02.10 01:00 - Form and Emptiness

The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were eggsalad Ormstein, Eliza Madrigal, Kit Ciaco, Loelia Zabaleta, and myself

I was early but there were people in the pavilion already - introductions:

Loelia Zabaleta: are you a guy i a dress then Egg?
Kit Ciaco hus, boy.....
eggsalad Ormstein: I sure am!
Loelia Zabaleta: Ifi may call you that ? °͜°
Kit Ciaco: all man!!!!
Kit Ciaco: hi, Zen
Zen Arado: Hi All
eggsalad Ormstein: and a gal like you could call me anything you want
Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!!
Kit Ciaco: (I assume you are directing that at Loe???
Loelia Zabaleta: haha
eggsalad Ormstein: possibly...
Zen Arado: I haven't seen you here before Loella
Loelia Zabaleta makes a note
eggsalad Ormstein: zen, what's crackin'?
Loelia Zabaleta: no its myfirst time Zen
Loelia Zabaleta: i am looking for interesting talks in sl
Loelia Zabaleta: and landed here
Kit Ciaco: good landing!
Zen Arado: ok we have to ask if you are comfortable with the fact that the meetings are recorded
Loelia Zabaleta: yes i think so :D
Zen Arado: on a Wiki
Loelia Zabaleta: recorded?
Zen Arado: ok great
Loelia Zabaleta: do you talk on voice ?
Zen Arado: not usually
Loelia Zabaleta: or you mean the open chat is kept?
Loelia Zabaleta: is it published ?
Zen Arado: I'll send you a link to the Wiki
Zen Arado: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
Zen Arado: it is published there
Loelia Zabaleta: thank you Zen
Zen Arado: that will tell you all you need to know I think

Male/female Avs:

Zen Arado: so how do you find being a woman on SL Egg?
Zen Arado: I have a female av too
eggsalad Ormstein: it's a male
Zen Arado: find it fascinating
eggsalad Ormstein: I am male, not female
Zen Arado: ok
eggsalad Ormstein: it bothers me that females can wear trousers, and males can't wear dresses
Kit Ciaco: I agree!
Loelia Zabaleta: yes it seems so unfair
Zen Arado: me too
Kit Ciaco: and heels - all men should wear heels at least for one day!
Loelia Zabaleta: although in some cultures men do wear things that are like dresses
Loelia Zabaleta: robes
eggsalad Ormstein: c'mon, kit... what was the last day you wore heels??
Kit Ciaco: hehehehe
eggsalad Ormstein: 1986?
Kit Ciaco: Mar 28 1988
eggsalad Ormstein was close!
Kit Ciaco: I remember I slipped out of them while I was giving a speech to an audience that included the Lt Gov
Zen Arado: must be difficult to totter about on those things
eggsalad Ormstein: it is a matter of becoming accustomed to it, that's all
Zen Arado: bad for the feet too
Loelia Zabaleta: i like to wear heels
Zen Arado: they throw all the weight to the front
Loelia Zabaleta: they make me feel different
Zen Arado: they look great though
eggsalad Ormstein: everything is fine in moderation, Zen
Kit Ciaco: true, egg!!!!
Zen Arado: my female av and a friend dressed up together and went clubbing together last weekend
eggsalad Ormstein: even bacon
Zen Arado: was great

Reason for Wiki existence:

Loelia Zabaleta: may I ask why do you publish chat logs?
Zen Arado: people want to read them I guess
Zen Arado: they have ppl called scribes who check them for interesting bits and publish those too
Loelia Zabaleta: right
Loelia Zabaleta: just looking at your wiki page
Kit Ciaco: who decides what is interesting?
Zen Arado: Pema is writing a book there too
eggsalad Ormstein: hi eliz
Zen Arado: he publishes new chapters every two weeks or so
Zen Arado: Hi Eliza !
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen, everyone. Good morning :))
Loelia Zabaleta: oh thats nice to hear too
Loelia Zabaleta: Hi Eliza
Loelia Zabaleta: a book about this place?
Zen Arado: you got up early this morning !
Eliza Madrigal has not been able to rezz the last three times signed on, sorry for cloudness :)
Zen Arado: it's called the Magic of Time
eggsalad Ormstein: I see you fine, eliz
Zen Arado: look under PaB books
Eliza Madrigal: really? wow, great
Eliza Madrigal doesn't see herself
Kit Ciaco: It happens that way sometimes, Eliza
Zen Arado: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Loelia Zabaleta: thanks Zen
Zen Arado: I see you fine too Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Zen Arado: SL seems to be giving trouble this past week
Eliza Madrigal: SL pixies making mischief
Zen Arado: I have been booted out of regions twice
Eliza Madrigal: that's because you're very controversial, Zen...hehe (kidding of course)
Zen Arado: and they were put out of here the other day too

Icky subject:

eggsalad Ormstein: how about the ethics and morals of selling cheese made of human milk?
Zen Arado: ugh
Kit Ciaco: LOL!
Zen Arado: though it would be better for us than cow's milk
eggsalad Ormstein: a restaurant in NY is doing just that
Kit Ciaco: truly?
Loelia Zabaleta: icky
eggsalad Ormstein: truly!
Loelia Zabaleta: do they placebo pudding too?
eggsalad Ormstein: idk, I've never tasted human milk
Loelia Zabaleta: not placebo umm what word do i mean
eggsalad Ormstein: it seems more sensible than drinking milk of another species
Kit Ciaco: placenta???
Kit Ciaco: just guessing.....
Loelia Zabaleta: thank you kit!
Kit Ciaco: but placebo pudding sounds good, too
Loelia Zabaleta: thats the one
Loelia Zabaleta: :D
Kit Ciaco: kinda like fake pudding???
Loelia Zabaleta: you are on my wavelength
Loelia Zabaleta: lol!
Loelia Zabaleta: yes
Loelia Zabaleta: that would be funny
Loelia Zabaleta: a new diet
Kit Ciaco: that might not be good for you to admit publicly
Loelia Zabaleta: placebo pudding and chocolate
Zen Arado: placenta
Zen Arado: I drink soya milk only
Zen Arado: cow's milk has indigestible things in it
eggsalad Ormstein: does human milk also?
Zen Arado: lactose and casein and other crud
Zen Arado: don't know
Zen Arado: but better suited to babies
Zen Arado: probably not good for adults
eggsalad Ormstein: and cow milk is suited to baby cows
Zen Arado: brb phone
eggsalad Ormstein: so soy milk is for... baby soybeans??
eggsalad Ormstein: baby powder... just add water!
Kit Ciaco: egg - you're on a aroll tonight
Kit Ciaco: like - an EGGROLL!!!!!
Kit Ciaco: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
eggsalad Ormstein: just not one with poppy seeds, please
Zen Arado: too much soy protein produces estrogen they say
Zen Arado: could turn men gay
Eliza Madrigal: I must be in a dream still...
Zen Arado: but need very large quantities
Loelia Zabaleta: well interestingly they say women in japan have no menoopause as such
Loelia Zabaleta: cos of the diet
eggsalad Ormstein: do hormones change one's sexuality?
Loelia Zabaleta: i doubt they would
Kit Ciaco: I think they do effect it somewhat
Zen Arado: have some role in producing desires I think
eggsalad Ormstein: i honestly couldn't say
Zen Arado: like testosterone in males?
Eliza Madrigal: interesting... could make a 'desire' pill...
Loelia Zabaleta: oh yes thats true
Kit Ciaco: I think they already do
Loelia Zabaleta: well is tht viagra?
eggsalad Ormstein: good eliza, cuz mine's gone
Zen Arado: no
Kit Ciaco: no, there's another one that is supposed to raise women's interst
Zen Arado: Viagra just helps with the mechanics
Eliza Madrigal: hah.. I meant more like targetted desires...
Zen Arado: no effect on libido
Kit Ciaco: interestingly, in the commercials there is a male speaker who is speaking to the partners of women, not the women themselves...
eggsalad Ormstein: so he's speaking to lesbians?

The Time Book:

Eliza Madrigal: Zen, btw, you mentioned the time book. Did you read the last chapter?
Kit Ciaco: I do not think so, egg
Zen Arado: I read the first bit
Zen Arado: last Saturday
Zen Arado: seemed good
eggsalad Ormstein: well, I gave my tv away, so I will take your word
Eliza Madrigal: ah, to homework then :)
Zen Arado: he only wants us to read a bit at a time because it is so long
eggsalad Ormstein: that's what SHE said
Eliza Madrigal: yes, shh... I read the whole thing and then went back to the first part...
Zen Arado: about space
Eliza Madrigal: yes .. sorts of space, interesting way to think about things really
Zen Arado: interesting about how a statue is 'liberated' from the marble it is in
Kit Ciaco: That's how Michelangelo described his work
Zen Arado: and there are infinite possibilities there
Eliza Madrigal: mmm.. ah, I'm just now getting your reference yesterday, re heroes and statues
Zen Arado: yes believe so Kit
Eliza Madrigal nods
eggsalad Ormstein: my work is similar
eggsalad Ormstein: I carve light from darkness
Zen Arado: yes egg?
Eliza Madrigal: what is your work egg?
eggsalad Ormstein: I just told you!
Eliza Madrigal: :) if you say so
Zen Arado: well elaborate a bit !
eggsalad Ormstein: Idesign and control lighting
Zen Arado: form is emptiness and emptiness is form
Zen Arado: in RL?
eggsalad Ormstein: in rl
Eliza Madrigal: fascinating... you really can carve that way
Eliza Madrigal: like magic, where one looks, etc
Zen Arado: my first job was making neon signs
Zen Arado: in glass
eggsalad Ormstein: the key is... the darkness is equally important to the light
Zen Arado: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
eggsalad Ormstein: for michaelangelo, nothing was the marble he carved away
Zen Arado: yes - the negative space

Negative space:

eggsalad Ormstein: I *create* negative space
Zen Arado: from what kind of lighting?
eggsalad Ormstein: theatrical
Eliza Madrigal: interesting... somehow this reminds me of the haiku discussion as well
Zen Arado: spotlights?
Zen Arado: yes Eliza?
eggsalad Ormstein: all forms... spotlights, floodlights, intelligent lights
Zen Arado: they create and control atmosphere
Eliza Madrigal: space important in haiku, and "kire" ... the space around the words can create a stage
Zen Arado: you can 'cut' a scene as well
Eliza Madrigal: suppose in all things space is far more important than we pay attention to
Zen Arado: yes
Eliza Madrigal: we take nothing for granted :)
Zen Arado: in drawing you look at the negative space
Loelia Zabaleta: even white space on a page
Zen Arado: yes
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Loelia Zabaleta: or the spaces btween the words in a book
Eliza Madrigal: potential
Zen Arado: it's a technique for drawing
Zen Arado: if you draw a chair it's easier ti draw the gaps than the chairlegs
Eliza Madrigal: does it cause you to think that way, in other contexts Zen?
Kit Ciaco: true artistry in all forms is about how to construct space - or leave space unscathed
Zen Arado: hmmm not really
Zen Arado: perhaps I should
Zen Arado: in music too the silence is important
Kit Ciaco: and human relationships
Zen Arado: the space between notes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: we are afraid of silence
Kit Ciaco: not I
Eliza Madrigal: I named a blog that once... or rather vice versa "notes between spaces"
Kit Ciaco: I ain't afraid of no spaces!
Zen Arado: well some are
Zen Arado: :)
Kit Ciaco: true!
Eliza Madrigal: where the music plays itself
Kit Ciaco: I wonder... sometimes it's as if the music always plays itself...
Zen Arado: why do they say'uncomfortable silence'?
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods...

Music interlude:

Kit Ciaco: I don't play instruments - they play me...
Loelia Zabaleta: i think silence can be frightening and it can be soothing too
Eliza Madrigal: :) Kit
Loelia Zabaleta: oh kit i love that
Eliza Madrigal: it is a kind of surrender
Kit Ciaco: thanks....
Zen Arado: that is being one with the music Kit
Kit Ciaco: Well, I reckon lots of folks just feel so darned insecure they think they have to use words to convince others how okay they are....
Zen Arado: I never achieved that
Zen Arado: yes!!! Kit
Kit Ciaco: I don't how to be any other way with music, zen
Kit Ciaco: truly...
Eliza Madrigal: a sort of nondual relationship
Zen Arado: we had a little jam session here last Friday
Kit Ciaco: I don't know - just cosmically comfortable
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: Sunshine playing her violin and Yaku and Alf on guitar
Eliza Madrigal: :)) read that
Kit Ciaco: I actually just today got my voice set up where I can play in real time with my real flutes
Kit Ciaco: very exciting
Zen Arado: great
Eliza Madrigal: I must stop missing those
Kit Ciaco: and a little intimidating....
Eliza Madrigal: they fall in the space between sessions
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!
Zen Arado: Iam learning iPhone guitar and violin
Kit Ciaco: I was playing over yonder before the session this morning
Zen Arado: :)
Kit Ciaco: Loe came over
Kit Ciaco: thankfully she couldn't hear me!
Eliza Madrigal: still don't feel confident Kit?
Eliza Madrigal: with that I mean...
Kit Ciaco: well, it's been a long, long time since I "performed" live
Eliza Madrigal: ah, this is a good place to test the waters :)
Zen Arado: why are we so shy?
Kit Ciaco: I actually embrace my imperfections
Zen Arado: when it comes to voice on SL?
Kit Ciaco: but some folks have certain expectations for live music
Kit Ciaco: and I do most of my music in studio form
Zen Arado: ah yes
Loelia Zabaleta: not me Kit
Eliza Madrigal: in text one can edit half way through
Kit Ciaco: and still produce imperfectly
Kit Ciaco: which I like very much
Kit Ciaco: right
Kit Ciaco: if I booboo TOO bad I can just edit it out
Eliza Madrigal: or erase.. in voice once you start then you're on a train....
Kit Ciaco: not so much in real time
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Kit Ciaco: and flutes wet out
Zen Arado: but we aren't so shy about speaking in a group in RL
Kit Ciaco: unexpectedly sometimes
Zen Arado: so why so shy in SL?
Eliza Madrigal: ah, true. My daughter plays flute :)
Kit Ciaco: so a flute audience has to come to know that and roll with that....
Eliza Madrigal: not so much now
Kit Ciaco: does she play concert flute or wood?
Eliza Madrigal: concert
Kit Ciaco: wow
Kit Ciaco: I cannot do that - can't make my lips purse up right
Zen Arado: remembers James Galway
Kit Ciaco: yes
Eliza Madrigal: though she was given a wooden flute recently...
Zen Arado: never hear of him now
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: I can't purse my lips either
Kit Ciaco: I believe James plays some pennywhistle as well....
Zen Arado: he comes from N.Ireland same as me
Eliza Madrigal: ah... what is that wonderful poem about flute playing....
Zen Arado: he used to play gold flutes?
Kit Ciaco: I don't know - what???
Zen Arado: I love flute concetos
Zen Arado: or is it concerti?
Kit Ciaco: concertos, I think
eggsalad Ormstein: depends... are you speaking English or Italian?
Kit Ciaco: I just did an accompaniment with a guy on one
Zen Arado: they have flute bands where I live
Kit Ciaco: yes!
Kit Ciaco: very lovely!
Zen Arado: they march on 12th July every year
--BELL--
Zen Arado: well it's funny but it can seem quite agressive
eggsalad Ormstein: what is the significance of that date?
Zen Arado: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ghjGgKcMc
Kit Ciaco: humor and aggression can be close kissing cousins
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Historical divisions:

Zen Arado: it is remembering a battle took place in 1690
Loelia Zabaleta: the orange parades
Loelia Zabaleta: eugh
Zen Arado: yes
Eliza Madrigal: I think I'd better try to go back to sleep... nice to see you all
eggsalad Ormstein: good night, eliz
Kit Ciaco: you, too Eliza!
Zen Arado: nice to see you Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Night, thanks!
Kit Ciaco: I should get some shut eye, too.
Zen Arado: nite Kit
eggsalad Ormstein: good night, dear Kit
Kit Ciaco: Loe, hope to see you again here!
Zen Arado: thanks for coming
Kit Ciaco: ya'll behave - and enjoy yourselves!!!!
Zen Arado: will do :)
Loelia Zabaleta: yes thanks Kit
Loelia Zabaleta: lovely to meet you today
Loelia Zabaleta: i will be back
Zen Arado: you too
Loelia Zabaleta: i am so happy i came by today
Zen Arado: happy to meet you Loelia
Zen Arado: you live in the US?
Loelia Zabaleta: no i am english
Zen Arado: ah ok
Loelia Zabaleta: not so far fom you
Zen Arado: wondered why you know about orange marches
Loelia Zabaleta: °͜°
Zen Arado: I hate that stuff myself
Zen Arado: never watch the parades
Loelia Zabaleta: yeah me too Zen
Zen Arado: part of ur culture though I guess
Loelia Zabaleta: in Glasgow too
Zen Arado: yes
Loelia Zabaleta: its unpleaseant
Zen Arado: seems to be the old resentments it stirs up
Loelia Zabaleta: i know the impact of history .. someitmes it amazes me
Loelia Zabaleta: i find history fasinating but...
Zen Arado: it;s a long legacy
Loelia Zabaleta: i cannot imagine letting ti rule mylife
Loelia Zabaleta: it*
Zen Arado: it is passed on from generation to generation
Loelia Zabaleta: yes
Zen Arado: memories are too long
Zen Arado: but all cultures seem to do that
Zen Arado: like Thanksgiving in the US
Loelia Zabaleta: do you think?
Loelia Zabaleta: but tht is not a bitter thing
Zen Arado: or even Remembrance days
Zen Arado: no true
Loelia Zabaleta: hmmm i am thinking
Loelia Zabaleta: yugoslavia is more similar
Loelia Zabaleta: i think its a political thing
eggsalad Ormstein: is there even a place called Yugoslavia anymore?
Zen Arado: I remember Anzac day when I lived in Australia
Loelia Zabaleta: no
Loelia Zabaleta: there is not egg
Loelia Zabaleta: lol
Loelia Zabaleta: i don't think its comparable
Zen Arado: not really
Zen Arado: a celebration of division
Loelia Zabaleta: yeah it is complex
Zen Arado: but hopefully it will dwindle out in years to come
Loelia Zabaleta: yes lets hope so
Zen Arado: and ppl will live in the present
Loelia Zabaleta: yes
Loelia Zabaleta: i think there are less boundaries in the modern world
Loelia Zabaleta: intermarriage and other freedoms
Zen Arado: maybe the internet is helping that
Zen Arado: yes
Loelia Zabaleta: hopefully will break down those prejudices
Loelia Zabaleta: you know i was just thining that too
Loelia Zabaleta: about the internet
eggsalad Ormstein: ah, but the internet still divides the haves from the have-nots
Zen Arado: less geographical barriers
Loelia Zabaleta: the rising in Cario
Zen Arado: true egg
Loelia Zabaleta: Cairo was orgnised on the internet
Loelia Zabaleta: in fb and twitter and someone said in SL too !
eggsalad Ormstein: but Tunisia was hardly, for internet is not universal there
Loelia Zabaleta: its nto univesal in egypt either
Zen Arado: there's little internet in poorcountries
Loelia Zabaleta: or even here i don't think
Loelia Zabaleta: but there is enough there amongst young ppl
Zen Arado: but getting there
eggsalad Ormstein: which only serves to make them poorer, in this connected age
Loelia Zabaleta: to make that revolution happen
Zen Arado: and they see the richness of others
Loelia Zabaleta: they see the freedoms too
Loelia Zabaleta: and that gives them an understanding of what can be
Zen Arado: a young guy on FB befriended me other week
Zen Arado: but he started asking me for money
Loelia Zabaleta: oh dear
Zen Arado: from Uganda
Loelia Zabaleta: and i hav to go to work :(
Zen Arado: yes I have to go too
Loelia Zabaleta: thank you this talk its been interesting
Loelia Zabaleta: °͜°
Loelia Zabaleta: and fun too
Zen Arado: thanks for discussion
Loelia Zabaleta: see you again °͜°
Zen Arado: bye egg and Loelia