2011.02.18 06:00 - Magic of Time Session: View

This week's Magic of Time session centered around the 2011/02/18: Reports in coordination with chapter 11. Space from Exploring the Magic of Time . No comments were added by Eliza Madrigal. :)

Riddle Sideways: Morning Eliza, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey Eliza and "YeahBut"!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce Hi Riddle Hi Pema Hi Maxine
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Pema.
Pema Pera: Hi all -- are we recording already?
Pema Pera: (ah yes)
Eliza Madrigal nods, we're 'on'
Pema Pera: (I see the letters at the bottom of the fountain)

--BELL--

Pema Pera: thanks!
Riddle Sideways: Hi Pema and Maxine
Bruce Mowbray: Hey Maxine.
Maxine Walden: hi, Riddle, Pema, Bruce, still rezziing it seems
Maxine Walden: also reading the reports for today...:)

Pema Pera: I just loved Riddle's "yeah, but" and his bottom line "I know that a Yeah-But is real and lives on."
Riddle Sideways: wish I had of read Bruce's and watched the TED vid before posting
Pema Pera: seems like the essence of the PaB community
Riddle Sideways: a YeahBut is not a Jackalope

Maxine Walden: wonderful reports!
Teleo Aeon: hello
Pema Pera: hi Teleo!
Teleo Aeon: am I disturbing you ?
Bruce Mowbray ponders "broader allowing" as instinctual for YeahButs.
Pema Pera: not at all, Teleo, feel free to join us!
Teleo Aeon: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey ya, Teleo -- wherever you are.
Teleo Aeon: I'll float over this cushion
Pema Pera: Teleo, you've been here before, haven't you?
Teleo Aeon: at Kira yes

Pema Pera: just to make sure: we get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki Http://wiki.playasbeing.org/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?

Eliza Madrigal: excellent TED talk Bruce, and much overlap with Maxine's sense of providing space for one another
Riddle Sideways: Hi Teleo, very neat av, but hard to sit down
Teleo Aeon: I attended the phenomenological epoche task force :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fefonz :)
Pema Pera: ah, yes, it's all coming back to me now, Teleo, that was a while ago :)
Teleo Aeon: it was
Pema Pera: hi Fef!
Riddle Sideways: Hi fef
Pema Pera: good to see you again!
Bruce Mowbray: Hey ya, Fef.
Teleo Aeon: you too :)
Fefonz Quan: hi pema, all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Riddle,your report praises something I'm trying to do less of, ie tangle myself in 'yeah but' qualifications...
Bruce Mowbray never saw a flying saucer in SL before -- fascinated by how it negotiates space.
Teleo Aeon: I don't mind being included in a blog Pema
Teleo Aeon: thanks for asking
Pema Pera: thanks, Teleo!

Riddle Sideways: Maxine, your report nailed what happens when thoughts overtake us

Maxine Walden: :) sorry, still reading...:)
Riddle Sideways: flying saucers need to know a lot about space
Teleo Aeon: by not knowing, we thus collapse it
Pema Pera smiles at Maxine reading her own report . . .
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: each report is worth a second reread
Riddle Sideways: except mine :)
Maxine Walden: :) oh, yes, sometimes forget what I said...you know 'oh, that moment now seeming past'
Eliza Madrigal: so much fun Riddle... yours are more like rides
Pema Pera: yours is worth at least a third, Riddle!
Riddle Sideways: beware the soundtracks
Riddle Sideways: I had fun
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: I do not even like supertramp
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Eliza Madrigal: Mr Sideways Wild Ride
Maxine Walden: suddenly 'trapped' in time: how do I access the 2011 reports, I seem trapped in 2010 reports !
Riddle Sideways: :)

Pema Pera: Bruce, you asked about my use of space around objects -- I didn't mean complete empty space around a metal fork, say, just the absence of metal (or other dense material) to let a fork stand out and hence be a fork; did you have a question about that, perhaps?

Pema Pera: Maxine: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=PaB_Books/Magic_of_Time/Time_Sessions/Weekly_Reports/2011%2F%2F02%2F%2F18:_Reports
Maxine Walden: ah, thanks
Bruce Mowbray: Oh I understand your use of "space" with the fork example, Pema. . .

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: It's my "YeahBut" side coming out -- . . . (waits.)
Pema Pera: ah, okay, Bruce -- any particular yeahbut you would like to bring up here?

Bruce Mowbray: There always seems to be the factor of who's perceiving what -- and there's a sort of framing that always needs to be considered. . .
Bruce Mowbray: So - let's say I could only "see" ultra-violet light. . .
Riddle Sideways: good analogy
Bruce Mowbray: then the fork might appear to be in quite different space. . . (just an example of what I'm trying to say).
Bruce Mowbray: so context is always part of the "picture".

Pema Pera: yeah, Bruce, but . . . (^_^) . . . . perhaps there is an alternative -- to let awareness be aware, without immediately narrowing it down to a perceiver perceiving something

Fefonz Quan: in fact the fork will appear in the same space and shape, just diiferent 'color'
Pema Pera: is that experientially accessible, do you think?
Pema Pera: without blocking your exploration by concluding that it's just IMPOSSIBLE ?
Bruce Mowbray: precisely so, Pema -- and one of the main goals of my "meditations" is to do just that.

Pema Pera: that's the core aim of my book -- insofar as it has an aim
Pema Pera: to question AND to sidestep questions
Pema Pera: to question enough to crank up the engine of exploration
Pema Pera: and then to drop the questions that get you back into a safe dark dungeon
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes -- over and over and over -- to step outside one's own "eyes."
Pema Pera: where we can use questions as excuses to not further explore

Pema Pera: yes, indeed!
Pema Pera: I'm talking to myself here, more than anything else
Pema Pera: knowing full well how I have that tendency, recognizing it, and trying to step out of it
Pema Pera: (and yes, I recognize it in most of you too, hehehe)

Riddle Sideways: like your report Pema, seeing through all the peoples's eyes on the street
Riddle Sideways: at once from diff angles
Pema Pera: that was SO HARD to convey!
Maxine Walden: :)
Pema Pera: I didn't do a very good job I think, sorry about that
Pema Pera: the point was not so much to say that I felt others to be like me
Pema Pera: that would be still far too self-centered, starting with a me
Pema Pera: the really startling things was that the "me" was given, given on the same levels as the "others" . . . .
Pema Pera: awareness was just awaring, as Eos said it so nicely a few weeks ago
Pema Pera: I should rewrite my report, hahaha
Maxine Walden: :)
Riddle Sideways: no
Pema Pera: no I, no me, nothing like that

Bruce Mowbray: How about starting with compassion for one's own predicament -- which is, that we begin by thinking ours is the only "real" perception. . . then learn to "see" through others' eyes?
Eliza Madrigal: letting writing write
Pema Pera: yes, that is one way, Bruce
Riddle Sideways: then we spend time in another's shoes and see it compassionetly from there

Pema Pera: there are many ways, but what was most startling was the jump -- I'm not sure whether it is possible to gradually get there.

Eliza Madrigal: btw, interesting clarification regarding color, fef. And thanks Pema... there does seem a default hurdle where we sort of stagnate... maybe factoring that helps us/gives permission to let go (a bit), to awaring (compassion in action)

Bruce Mowbray: yes, Riddle, and if we do this throughout Larger Time, we might eventually enter an infinity of "Gates of Perception. . . "
Pema Pera: so preparation is important, as you said, Bruce, but at some point we have to let go of any further questioning, preparing, and just jump in there
Bruce Mowbray feels that taking any one perception as literally THE one - makes for stagnation.
Bruce Mowbray: Learning that leaping is OK -- even necessary - is a biggie.

Pema Pera: now I'm missing Riddle's rainbow like pulsar, after what you wrote, Bruce :-)
Riddle Sideways: :)
Riddle Sideways: not always the av I should be
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Maxine Walden: :)
Riddle Sideways: hmmmm, am thinking a semi-conductor spends most of it's time in one state
Riddle Sideways: an insolator
Riddle Sideways: a non-conductor
Pema Pera: leaping -- and letting the world leap; like in Eliza's "a door appears one day and not another"!
Riddle Sideways: then a leap
Riddle Sideways: and it is a conductor

Bruce Mowbray: ?me recalls wonderful essay (Richard Dawkins...???) titled "How would it be to see the world as a bat sees it?"
Maxine Walden: quantum phenomenon?
Pema Pera: it's amplifying incoming leaps, Riddle :-)
Riddle Sideways: yes Bruce, like Adams' report

--BELL--

Fefonz Quan: no, not dawkins
Bruce Mowbray: Thomas Nagel (not Dawkins) --He is well-known for his critique of reductionist accounts of the mind in his essay "What Is It Like to Be a Bat?" (1974), and for his contributions to deontological and liberal moral and political theory in The Possibility of Altruism (1970) and subsequent writings.

Pema Pera: and Maxine, great meditation on "'held by space' to 'lost in space'"

Fefonz Quan: yep
Riddle Sideways: a leap Maxine
Pema Pera: some many fascinating reports -- and yes, Bruce, that was an early article moving towards experience, away from pure analytic philosophy

Bruce Mowbray: I'm thinking now about self-organizing communicty behavior -- and how the group has a sort of "way of seeing" -- and how each individual needs to let something go in order for the "Group Eye" to emerge.
Pema Pera: nice, Bruce!
Eliza Madrigal: :) the tribal eye
Pema Pera: so the question is: how to help each other to center
Pema Pera: without criticizing too much

Riddle Sideways: sometimes, (dropping) erasing an entire chat line that has lagged the group eye

Bruce Mowbray: I'm suspecting that "Group Eye Emergence" might be a sort of synthesis of many "YeahBut's"
Riddle Sideways: Yeah, but maybe :)
Eliza Madrigal: and it blinks
Riddle Sideways: ooooooh , the blinks (are those gaps)
Maxine Walden: blinks as non-foreclosures?
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Pema Pera: collectively rubbing our group's eyes to wake up :-)
Maxine Walden: ;)
Riddle Sideways: ah yes we were
Maxine Walden: winking...blinking...

Bruce Mowbray ponders being seen by the fork -- and wondering I would rattle in a box of space - from the viewpoint of the fork -- as the fork might rattle in its box, for me.

Maxine Walden: staring (non blinking) soon bleaches out, flattens the 'view

Pema Pera: What did you do this morning? Oh, I was winking, blinking, and rattling . . . .
Maxine Walden: while blinking or a relaxed, non-staring observing allows the de-centralized multi perspectives...just pondering openness from the perspective of the 'eye'/I
Eliza Madrigal: mmm yes a more 'listening' soft stance

Bruce Mowbray: "how we see" (our "view") seems at least as significant as "what we see" - - -
Maxine Walden: yes...

Bruce Mowbray ponders Ways of Knowing discussions (like the one yesterday).
Eliza Madrigal: well seeing as projecting outward seems to be a hidden definition
Eliza Madrigal: when we see the hidden definition we don't 'have' to go that way

Pema Pera: ah, that was what was startling for me, in what I reported on, the sense of seeing/awaring without emphasize on either "eye" or "I" (no pun intended) -- beyond a sense of it being "my view" (@ Bruce -1)
Maxine Walden: that was sort of what I was thinking too, Pema, from your report
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm, nods
Pema Pera: letting me be equally seen as others -- and letting me equally see as others

--BELL--

Maxine Walden: reciprocity, no owner of THE RIGHT VIEW
Pema Pera: sounds impossible and strange, and not to be taken literally of course -- still had my camera view point near my own body :-)
Riddle Sideways: the multiple lens of the fly's eyes turned inward/toward the group
Pema Pera: :-)

Teleo Aeon: I was wondering the other day, how it is that I know an apple the way I do. because if I imagine an apple in the fridge there's a great deal I know about that apple. I know its taste and I know its smell and I know there's another side to the apple I normally will never be able to see. because whenever I turn the apple round to see the other side, the other side always stays where it always is. It's as if the (eye) and the (I) are both the things which can never see the other side.

Pema Pera: yes, any point of view is limited
Pema Pera: so how to go beyond points of view?

Riddle Sideways: so you imagine the other side
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Adams :)
Maxine Walden: and the dark side of the moon/apple is always 'there'
Pema Pera: as you said, we "sense" the other side, yes
Eliza Madrigal: we think we know the apple...
Riddle Sideways: Morning Adams
Pema Pera: hi Adams!

Bruce Mowbray: Fascinating thought for an avi who continually shows the world its "other" side - by rotating.
Maxine Walden: hi, Adams
Teleo Aeon: hi Adams
Teleo Aeon: :) Bruce
Adams Dubrovna: Sorry to interrupt. Hello all
Eliza Madrigal: haha Bruce
Teleo Aeon: you have pan power in SL

Pema Pera: Adams knows what it is like to be a bat -- according to his report!
Pema Pera: (we were talking about "what it is like to be a bat" earlier in the session, Adams :)
Riddle Sideways: listening out one window and then the other
Adams Dubrovna: I realized after reading your report Pema that i WAS watching my mind in my report
Maxine Walden: hmm, yes
Teleo Aeon: a bat does probably see the other side
Pema Pera: ah, nice Adams, can you say more about that?
Adams Dubrovna: When I read your report I was in a much calmer state of mind. The difference was very apparent
Bruce Mowbray: Only blind bats "see" the other side. . . (as sounds bounce around).

Pema Pera: and sorry to hear about your moving experience (moving mail truck) -- I hope that was not too violent?
Adams Dubrovna: It was frightening but I was very lucky

Bruce Mowbray: just view the whole situation in an calm and equal-minded way -- not in a cold bystander way, but rather in a warm two-stander way, embracing both of us at the same time --- from Pema's report

Adams Dubrovna: I was going downhill and a mail truck passed me and then turned right into my path
Pema Pera: ooooooo
Pema Pera: two objects trying to fill the same space . . . . .
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear. . . .
Adams Dubrovna: I hit into the side of the truck. Fortunately it was a flat surface and I was able to slide down the side until it passed by
Adams Dubrovna: and able to miss the wheel
Adams Dubrovna: a lesson in physics
Pema Pera closes his eyes . . .
Bruce Mowbray: a scary lesson, indeed.
Adams Dubrovna: painful too
Pema Pera: did the driver stop?
Riddle Sideways: better to just read that space works like that, sometimes
Adams Dubrovna: yes but others had to tell him what happened. he was oblivious except for the sound
Pema Pera: wow
Maxine Walden: what inattention (the driver) can do...
Pema Pera: cars are lethal weapons . . . .
Adams Dubrovna: what remains is the anxiety :)
Pema Pera: no broken bones or anything?
Maxine Walden: inattention is the most lethal weapon tho unintended as such...
Riddle Sideways: and the car drivers that are thinking about other spaces :)
Pema Pera: was he on a cell phone?
Adams Dubrovna: no just some bruised muscles; my bicycle was a real trooper and is fine too
Maxine Walden: hmm, inattention reframed as attending to other spaces than where I am focussed

Riddle Sideways: Male drivers.... Bah

Adams Dubrovna: I was between my bicycle and the truck since I was able to turn with the truck
Adams Dubrovna: Haha Riddle
Teleo Aeon: driver who are looking for other cars tend to ignore anything they aren't looking out for.
Adams Dubrovna: people are in a hurry

Maxine Walden: hi Luci
Pema Pera: Hi Lucinda!
Teleo Aeon: hi Luci
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci :)
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Lucinda
Lucinda Lavender: whispers Hi:)...
Eliza Madrigal: the lack of (seeing) the other side, may be what lets us see... lets us live...in a sense, dimensionally...
Maxine Walden: afraid I have to go. hope not to crash into anyone as I turn my attention elsewhere...:)
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Bruce Mowbray: THANKS everyone -- off to morning 'sit' now.
Pema Pera: bye Maxine!
Maxine Walden: bye all
Adams Dubrovna: bye all
Eliza Madrigal: bye standers
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe

Bruce Mowbray: May all have an "in-sightful" weekend!

Pema Pera: time for me to get back to work too
Pema Pera: thanks everybody!
Teleo Aeon: yes bye
Adams Dubrovna: I must be off too
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: thanks and bye all leavers
Pema Pera: 11.6 and 11.7 for next week :-)
Riddle Sideways: ok
Teleo Aeon: thanks bye to you all
Teleo Aeon: :)