2011.02.17 07:00 - Silence Together

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

Korel Laloix: Heya
Storm Nordwind: Hi there!
druth Vlodovic: hi

The pool has gone for a while. There are only eight cushions set out.

druth Vlodovic: is this a special meet?
Korel Laloix: Not that I know of.
Storm Nordwind: Me neither. Should it be?
Korel Laloix: Well... I am here... so it is special... smiles
druth Vlodovic: you don't seem to be expecting too many people :)
druth Vlodovic: ah yes, that's what is was!
Storm Nordwind: I'm not. That's often the case for this session

Korel has Statistics classes.

Korel Laloix: I am between classes and have to go soon.
druth Vlodovic: ah, what do you take?
Korel Laloix: brb
Storm Nordwind: You're always welcome to grace with your presence even for just a few minutes :)
druth Vlodovic: ah, the sun comes out
Storm Nordwind: And we may have to increase the size of the whole pavilion for her
Storm Nordwind: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi all ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Storm nice to meet you
Storm Nordwind: You too Sunshine
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Druth, Korel ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm, Korel, Druth, and Sun (fancy meeting you here, heh)
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
druth Vlodovic: hi eliza
Korel Laloix: lol
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Korel Laloix: Just doing some short notice tutering.... lol
Eliza Madrigal: oh?
Korel Laloix: Statistics.
Storm Nordwind: Yum
Eliza Madrigal: eek... I'll be seeing you.. hah
Korel Laloix: Love statistics.
druth Vlodovic: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: Just go through re reading How to Lie With Statistics... great book.
Storm Nordwind: I've managed to ignore then for the last 20 years
Korel Laloix: 83% percent of statistics on ignoring statistics are made up on the spot.
Storm Nordwind: Hey that's my joke!
Korel Laloix: lol
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Storm Nordwind apologizes for being very untalkative this morning
Korel Laloix: Stats are such usefull tools but so abused by the greedy.
druth Vlodovic: it's more accurate when she says it, because she teaches it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix grins
Storm Nordwind still has a copy of Wonnacott and Wonnacott on the bookshelf behind him
Eliza Madrigal: yes stats are so often used to prop up bogus things that people tune them out I think
Korel Laloix: Not just stats though.
Eliza Madrigal: very true
Korel Laloix: Science is general is so politicized.. that you realy have to be careful.
Storm Nordwind: Is there something that cannot be politicized?
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes one feels they have to qualify everything so much, trying to cover bases to be honest that it is hard to say anything...heh
Korel Laloix: TIc tac toe?
Storm Nordwind: Ah sport! ;)

Being passionate.

Korel Laloix: And people are passionate about things... sothat is good.
Sunshine Vayandar: sport has so much politics in SA
Korel Laloix: But passionate to make up science is a bit much.
Eliza Madrigal: making things up 'on the spot' isn't always a bad thing either....
Korel Laloix: Agreed... 83% of the time... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: catching glimpses never to be repeated
Eliza Madrigal: haha

Being still.

Storm Nordwind: Passion is good. It can give momentum and a sense of purpose and meaning. Though it can get in the way of stillness.
Sunshine Vayandar: quiet passion ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: I have issue with stillness... just not my style.
Sunshine Vayandar: one can try to be passionate quietly
Korel Laloix: But I am working on it.
Korel Laloix: If passion lead to action, that can be good for everyone.
Storm Nordwind: There's no prerequisite style you should be, Korel :)
Korel Laloix: True... but I think it is impoartant to have your own style.
druth Vlodovic: balance is good though, any specific thing taken to extremes can be damaging
Korel Laloix: Else you are a conformist.
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: some think they are being very quiet and are heard quite loudly... surely vice versa

Being silent.

Korel Laloix: Silence can be very telling.
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods... that silence told me :"in patience possess ye your souls"
druth Vlodovic: "the more you say the less they hear." I tell my dauhgter that all the time, um, to make her a more effective communicator, of course
Eliza Madrigal: hehe druth
Korel Laloix: I find that is true.
Korel Laloix: In our staf meeting I rarely say anything but when I do people pay atention.
Eliza Madrigal: p chodron tells this story about people not talking in these communities, but writing on chalk boards.. said it was hilarious to a certain monk who said 'it is easy not to speak, not so easy to speak rightly'
Eliza Madrigal: but I don't find it easy not to speak =P~
Korel Laloix: I have been accused of having an over active mouth before....
Korel Laloix grins
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
druth Vlodovic: that's why I go to sl philosophy discussions, to get all my speaking out of the way
Sunshine Vayandar: it's strange to be quiet
Korel Laloix: Silence is odd to me.
Korel Laloix: When I study I put on music.
druth Vlodovic: makes you nervous and edgy when you first try it
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm.... potential on the edge
Korel Laloix: I do love silence though.
Eliza Madrigal: it fixes things... not sure how it does it, but it seems to
Korel Laloix: I love to go to places like the National Grasslands in the US and find a nice secluded spot and just absorb the quiet.
Eliza Madrigal: not *just* silence, but really getting into it
Eliza Madrigal: ah, nice Korel
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yaku :)
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Yaku ;)
druth Vlodovic: hi yaku
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Bruce ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
druth Vlodovic: hey bruce, sorry I was so scary earlier :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Bruce
Sunshine Vayandar: u were scary?
Eliza Madrigal: you scared Bruce, druth?
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, folks.
druth Vlodovic: I walked up to him and he ran away
Eliza Madrigal: awww
Sunshine Vayandar: really
Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear -- I don't recall that, druth . .. sry.
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
druth Vlodovic: maybe I had too much silence, he didn't notice me
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
Eliza Madrigal: must be it
Bruce Mowbray: ? . . . (don't know, sry).
Eliza Madrigal: undefined space
Sunshine Vayandar: brb
Eliza Madrigal: we have a quiet Storm today too
Korel Laloix: OK..to my next class.. take care all.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Korel :)
druth Vlodovic: have fun korel
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Korel. . . Be well and warm.
Eliza Madrigal: I can't stay but thanks for the company for a while everyone
Storm Nordwind waves
druth Vlodovic: bye eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Namaste' :)
druth Vlodovic: lol, all this noise to say "I am here, I exist, and so do you."
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eliza
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Eliza.
Sunshine Vayandar: back
druth Vlodovic: wb sun
Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;)

A little snow falls.

Yakuzza Lethecus starts to freeze suddenly
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Sun!
Yakuzza Lethecus wonders if storm is a ,,snow" storm today
Sunshine Vayandar wonders what is this white thing falling
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Bruce ;)
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Were you discussing "Silence" before I arrived?
druth Vlodovic: they're going to make a liar out of me :)
Bruce Mowbray: or -- perhaps you were Being Silence, before I arrived?
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
druth Vlodovic: mostly talking, the advanced class is next week
Bruce Mowbray: (so was I --- at Soul's Journey -- 20 minutes of silent sitting each morning at 7 slt).
Storm Nordwind is as talkative as a herring this morning anyway
Sunshine Vayandar: where is that Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I will slide you an LM, Sun. . .
Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: nice name ㋡
druth Vlodovic: it's funny hop silence "with" people is different than silence on your own
Storm Nordwind recalls a famous line from a Blackadder comedy sketch
Storm Nordwind: "Lord Whiteadder... a vow of silence... that's a very interesting thing... tell me about it"

Silence with others.

Bruce Mowbray: Silence with others -- being alone with others --- something intimate, something co-creative about it. . . almost like a small tribe or family.
Bruce Mowbray: an intimacy born of creating something together --
Bruce Mowbray: or, perhaps, born of being TOGETHER held by the Silence.
Storm Nordwind: or perhaps collectively allowing something to be that was already there
Bruce Mowbray: yes -- something already there. . . but not yet touched -- or not yet allowing oneself to be touched by It.
Bruce Mowbray: That's why in RL I go to Quaker Meeting every Sunday afternoon -- even though I am not a Quaker myself.
Storm Nordwind: It's funny how at retreats many people relish the Silent Days. But not so me, because I spend most of my days in silence!
Bruce Mowbray: It is for the Silence Together. . . that I can find nowhere else in RL. . .
Bruce Mowbray: but feel a need for -- to make my journey . . . well, perhaps, worthwhile.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Storm. . . My days are also lived in silence -- being a hermit, and having had all my telephones unplugged since last weekend's retreat. . .
druth Vlodovic: too much purpose, a friend of mine was making fun of me for wanting a book while I sat in a coffee shop, he thought I should just sit and enjoy being there
Storm Nordwind: Ah... the dangerous "should" word
Storm Nordwind: (Which should of course be banned!) ;)
Bruce Mowbray: shoulds bite like snakes. . . ouch.
druth Vlodovic: lol
Bruce Mowbray: wb, Sun.

Clothes and nakedness.

Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;) I ran away because my clothes were gone hehe
Storm Nordwind notices that no one else ran away at the same time ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: it makes no sense I know ;p
Bruce Mowbray: Didn't see you that way, Sun.
druth Vlodovic: unfortunately the rest of you was gone too
Storm Nordwind: You were a seething mist
Sunshine Vayandar: lol
Bruce Mowbray: yes, saw you as a mist - also.
Sunshine Vayandar: it felt strange to me
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: nothing but her spirit remained
Bruce Mowbray: that misty feeling?
Sunshine Vayandar: i suppose it's just conventions - if everyone was naked here it would be no prob hehe
druth Vlodovic: ohh, a project :)
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
Storm Nordwind: A project?
Sunshine Vayandar: ops ;)
Bruce Mowbray: I used to belong to a nude beach -- The most BORING place I'd ever been in all of SL.
Storm Nordwind: haha!
Sunshine Vayandar: yes me too - and was very boring too
druth Vlodovic: some days my clothes show me, sometimes they conceal me
druth Vlodovic: lol, I can't imagine sun being boring
Bruce Mowbray: felt the whole time that it was a compensation for something I might be lacking in RL -- then realized that I can go naked in RL whenever I choose to --- my dog doesn't care!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
druth Vlodovic: did you try it?
Storm Nordwind: It must be a rather token or at most a psychological thing in SL. In RL at least you can experience the sun on your body, or the feel of the water as you swim
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes! I love skinny-dipping -- and do so every summer in a nearby creek.
Storm Nordwind smiles
Storm Nordwind: I've only ever done that in the sea
Sunshine Vayandar: I saw some pictures of your place Bruce so nice
druth Vlodovic: :-) we haven't changed subject at all, both words and clothes are, partly, defensive measure against being known or knowing ourselves
Bruce Mowbray: Did you see my skinny-dipping creek, Sun?
Sunshine Vayandar: I think so ;)
Bruce Mowbray: Yayyyyy!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)) beautiful place

Conformity and standing out.

Bruce Mowbray ponders clothing as a way of NOT being seen by others. . .
Storm Nordwind: Back to the idea of conformity
Sunshine Vayandar: no matter what I do here in SA - I stand out
Bruce Mowbray loves Yaku's pink hat - - -
Sunshine Vayandar: everyone knows my name
Sunshine Vayandar: I can't conform no matter what
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm
Bruce Mowbray sings: "Here comes the Sun!"
Sunshine Vayandar: lol
Sunshine Vayandar: lalalaaaaa
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
Sunshine Vayandar: such a nice song that is
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Storm Nordwind: And in the US I stand out too. Bigger than most. Long curly hair. And this strange strange accent! ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))
Sunshine Vayandar: so you know what I mean
Storm Nordwind nods
Sunshine Vayandar: I speak Hung-lish

Deliberate balance.

Sunshine Vayandar: but also I do everything possible to be different
Storm Nordwind: Because?
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I like to do the opposite of things
Sunshine Vayandar: so there is balance
Sunshine Vayandar: lol
Sunshine Vayandar: for example - noone walks around on the streets
Sunshine Vayandar: so I go and play violin and walk around
Bruce Mowbray: complementary opposites, perhaps?
Bruce Mowbray: yin and yang. . .
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm yes but also because I miss music and jamming
Storm Nordwind: I would guess that where the point of balance is depends on where you stand
Sunshine Vayandar: it turns out to be the opposite
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Sunshine Vayandar: yes Storm - it just ends up to be opposite many times

"Normality."

Sunshine Vayandar: I would like to be normal lol
Bruce Mowbray: I learned to knit while in college so I could sit with a bunch of super-masculine guys and watch football games without drowning in testosterone. . .
Storm Nordwind: Why??!
Bruce Mowbray: and also because I love to knit!
Yakuzza Lethecus: what is it like to be normal ?
Sunshine Vayandar: it's tiring to be so strange
druth Vlodovic: the pendulum swings back and forth, we seek the opposite extreme in order to arrive in the middle
Storm Nordwind doubts he has ever been normal
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe yes I know hmm noone is
druth Vlodovic: funny bruce, did the guys react to it?
Bruce Mowbray: Bruce is POSITIVE that he (Bruce) have never been normal.
Bruce Mowbray: and happy not to be.
Sunshine Vayandar: I just mean - moving to the other side of the planet - can be tiring - and sometimes I wish I fitted in a bit
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, they reacted a bit -- but were more interested in the games.
Storm Nordwind is not even sure what normal is
Bruce Mowbray: One guy asked me to teach him how to knit -- so then there were two of us.

A movie.

Sunshine Vayandar: May be if you know the filmj Hideous Kinky - you know what I mean
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe really Bruce
druth Vlodovic: "fiting in" means becoming the ccrowd, but none of the people in the crowd is naturally the crowd, so all the conformists end up fighting themselves
Storm Nordwind: Ah... moving pictures... I've heard of them
Bruce Mowbray looks up Hideous Kinky in www.imdb.com
Sunshine Vayandar: it
Sunshine Vayandar: its not easy to explain - but may be if you imagine yourself - living in a far away land - with a bushman tribe
Sunshine Vayandar: sometimes you would wish to speak a bit of "bush" lol
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0136244/
--BELL--

People in crowds.

Bruce Mowbray has been watching the crowds in Middle Eastern countries - as they protest in the streets against their governments.
Bruce Mowbray: I like to find ONE person in the crowd and watch him/her. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and try to imagine what he/she is feeling and thinking -- being part of that mob.
Sunshine Vayandar: Eden gave a very nice link
Bruce Mowbray: yes?
Bruce Mowbray: where Sun?
Sunshine Vayandar: http://www.good.is/post/a-moving-let...-tahrir-square
Sunshine Vayandar: very nice pic there
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you! I will definitely bookmark that one. . .
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Bruce Mowbray: Love little girl all in red!
Sunshine Vayandar: yes ;)
Bruce Mowbray: "Schools in Cairo have been closed during the protests. But there are so many mothers who want to attend the demonstration that many bring their children here - to a kindergarten organised by the demonstrators."
Bruce Mowbray feels there is a big difference between crowds that CREATE and crowds that CONSUME. . .
Storm Nordwind nods
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm yes
Bruce Mowbray: Football crowds seem like consumers -- whereas protest crowds (in Cairo) seem more creative.

Desiring change.

Yakuzza Lethecus: i just wish that the ppl in the middle east actually find a government which creates trust and embodies the different visions
Yakuzza Lethecus: not that they are only united in ,,we want the old system gone"
Bruce Mowbray agrees with Yaku --- a worrysome situation(s).
Sunshine Vayandar: how does one find a government - not easy
Storm Nordwind: And is that so different to the west?
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, but we struggle on a high standard at least
druth Vlodovic: in the west they started with what they had and warped it
Sunshine Vayandar: I came to Africa because standards are higher here in my eyes
druth Vlodovic: even the idea of human rights came fom the old sytems
Bruce Mowbray: But our governmental systems still have self-repair built into them - theoretically. So every election (theoretically) we can make things better.
Bruce Mowbray is fascinated by what Sun just said.
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I went to see Eastern Block countries, then western, then US
Sunshine Vayandar: and I thought I needed to carry on exploring
Sunshine Vayandar: and Africa is a place where I can learn so much
Sunshine Vayandar: just my experience hmm
Bruce Mowbray is envious -- wishes he could look at other cultures as potential places to relocate.

An offer we can't refuse.

Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I hope I will be a bit richer and I can invite everyone ;)
Bruce Mowbray: Yayyyyyy! Invitation accepted!!
Sunshine Vayandar: yohoooo
Bruce Mowbray: Folks this has been fun and fascinating -- but attend to RL duties now.
Yakuzza Lethecus smiles
Sunshine Vayandar: actually I am serious hehehe -
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you -- and enjoy your day1
Sunshine Vayandar: just a bit poor at the moment
Bruce Mowbray: Hoping to see you all later.
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
Storm Nordwind looks forward to an SA retreat ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee Bruce ;) take care
Storm Nordwind waves
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm would be nice
Sunshine Vayandar: I just attended an SL one here
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bruce
druth Vlodovic: ah, missed him
Sunshine Vayandar: who?

Higher standards.

druth Vlodovic: what did you mean "standards" are higher?
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm not sure if I can explain clearly
Sunshine Vayandar: once I started thinking a bit about things
Sunshine Vayandar: and got to know different cultures
Sunshine Vayandar: for example I loved how Arabs and Africans love singing
Sunshine Vayandar: I thought music needs to be part if life
Sunshine Vayandar: part of
Sunshine Vayandar: so I was amazed there are places where people have music soo present
Sunshine Vayandar: people drum and sing and dance when they wish
Sunshine Vayandar: I thought that was a higher standard of life
--BELL--
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm u see what i mean?
druth Vlodovic: yes
Sunshine Vayandar: or people that live more in harmony with nature

Looking strange.

Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe we should just dance and sing and smile at everyone who is going to look at us in a strange way :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: that reminds me of Eden ;)
druth Vlodovic: making us more human
Storm Nordwind: Who is to say what is strange and what is not?
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm if you don't follow the rules in a community
Sunshine Vayandar: u will be strange
Sunshine Vayandar: whatever is normal in one community - might be taboo in another
Yakuzza Lethecus: well we are human being in every appearance being human is what we make ourselves and still we have our cultural roots and history
druth Vlodovic: in canada one of the "rules" is "tolerance" lol, it's having an odd effect on people, I'm not sure where it's going
Storm Nordwind: Exactly so. And In the same community at different times.
Sunshine Vayandar: yes Storm - it changes all the time somehow
Sunshine Vayandar: but at any given moment - there are strange people in a community
Sunshine Vayandar: like me
Sunshine Vayandar: lol

Roots and clothes.

Storm Nordwind: Even those cultural roots, Yak, are temporary for people like me who see them as the baggage of a single lifetime
druth Vlodovic: "people seek happiness and to avoid suffering" but people also like to create, to strive, I suppose things that create positive emotions are more "human" but negative emotions aren't always bad
Sunshine Vayandar: I like to "lose" my history too - or try to experiment with it
Yakuzza Lethecus: got to go, thx everyone
Sunshine Vayandar: positive emotions are more human?
Sunshine Vayandar: when you are sad that is also very human
druth Vlodovic: "baggage" :( if we ae who we are, all the things inside of us and around us, then our history and traditions are important too
Sunshine Vayandar: or how you mean druth
Storm Nordwind: I see them as clothes Druth. They are important to us and other people for a while. But we don't wear the same clothes forever
druth Vlodovic: I suppose I meant systems, anti-human systems will tend to increase negativity, that's how you identify them
Sunshine Vayandar: may be I prefer my "personal history" - like the people I meet, my own experiences
Sunshine Vayandar: not so much culture
Sunshine Vayandar: I can't relate so much to the history of Hungary for example
druth Vlodovic: I see a lot of people rejecting the old, rather than simply accepting the new, I suppose that's what I get nervous of
Sunshine Vayandar: can u give an example?
druth Vlodovic: what we were makes us who we are, and who we are is the person who wants to know the world

I have an urgent call away.

Storm Nordwind: Rejection is as much attachment as desire. I find them both limiting.
Storm Nordwind: But please excuse me, I have an urgent errand to run.
druth Vlodovic: ok, have fun storm
Storm Nordwind: Please do continue this wonderful conversation!
Sunshine Vayandar: nice to meet you Storm ;) ty for the chat
Sunshine Vayandar: have a great day there
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Storm Nordwind: I'm so sorry I wasn't more talkative.
Storm Nordwind: But lovely to meet you :)
Sunshine Vayandar: oh np
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeee
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
druth Vlodovic: lol, you keep saying that, we enjoyed your silences :)
Sunshine Vayandar: _/\_
Sunshine Vayandar: ;))

I walk over to the Kira Cafe to help fix a problem there. However, I would normally away anyway, back to the prayer wheels on my guardian plot.

Sunshine Vayandar: it's funny how he walks away
druth Vlodovic: oh?
Sunshine Vayandar: instead of logging off or tping away
druth Vlodovic: I used to just tp out, but now I walk a bit until the recorder turns off
Sunshine Vayandar: you know like when one leaves a place in RL
Sunshine Vayandar: ahh ok
Sunshine Vayandar: I am not used to that
druth Vlodovic: sometimes I'll do it if I think people would find it rude to just vanish
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm yes sometimes one has that feeling
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe and I walked away when I was topless
druth Vlodovic: it's sort of a timing mechanism for goodbyes as well
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: you don't see a lot of that in SA?
Sunshine Vayandar: lot of what

A late visitor arrives.

Sunshine Vayandar: hi Egg ;)
eggsalad Ormstein: hi sun.
druth Vlodovic: hi egg
Sunshine Vayandar: how are you today
eggsalad Ormstein: hi druth
druth Vlodovic: SA is a temperate zone isn't it?
eggsalad Ormstein: the circle got much smaller since my last visit :(
druth Vlodovic: we all drank out of the fountain and it shrank
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm it keeps changing
Sunshine Vayandar: lol
Sunshine Vayandar: what do you mean - temperate
Sunshine Vayandar: sorry I am hunglish lol - don't always understand ;)
druth Vlodovic: well, snow in winter temperatures rarely above 20C etc
druth Vlodovic: climatic zone
Sunshine Vayandar: ah
Sunshine Vayandar: we never have snow
Sunshine Vayandar: and it goes to 0 C during winter
Sunshine Vayandar: but not really below
druth Vlodovic: "all I know about africa I read in national geographic" I was wondering what public dress codes arelike in your area
Sunshine Vayandar: here it's like in europe
druth Vlodovic: sad
Sunshine Vayandar: africa is huuuugee
Sunshine Vayandar: very very diverse
Sunshine Vayandar: bit like u take New York City and stretch it
Sunshine Vayandar: till it becomes a continent
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
druth Vlodovic: I'll go outside sweating because I'm expected to be all covered in cloth
Sunshine Vayandar: Most places in Africa - ppl wear jeans and tshirt
Sunshine Vayandar: especially all the cities
druth Vlodovic: oh yes, I get a kick out of people studying the "native americans"with no idea which native americans they are studying, there were all sorts of lingustic groups and cultures back before the europeans
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm yes - here in SA we have 11 official languages

A political tone creeps into the discussion.

eggsalad Ormstein: in northern Africa, they seem to be protesting a lot lately
Sunshine Vayandar: yes
Sunshine Vayandar: I wonder what triggered all these changes
eggsalad Ormstein: I can't tell what all the fuss is over
druth Vlodovic: I wonder why, importing styles, ignoring their own past, is european clothing really that much superior?
druth Vlodovic: lol, mind you I've never worn a kilt
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) may be you should try ;p
druth Vlodovic: people wanting a change from dictators sucking up all the money
druth Vlodovic: it's an old story
Sunshine Vayandar: yes
eggsalad Ormstein: nothing new has happened to change the mood, just business as usual, but all of a sudden, people seem upset
druth Vlodovic: they were upset a long time, then something small triggers it
druth Vlodovic: like spending the week frustrated, then snapping at someone for a minor offence
Sunshine Vayandar: yes there is something that has been brewing for long
druth Vlodovic: only in this case it seems to be properly directed
eggsalad Ormstein: it seems to be the fault of the Europeans, mostly
Sunshine Vayandar: also the NET brings everyone closer
druth Vlodovic: "fault" is an interesting word
Sunshine Vayandar: people can compare ways of life
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I must go
eggsalad Ormstein: they drew seemingly random colonial lines in the 20th century
Sunshine Vayandar: so many things to do
druth Vlodovic: one of the communist ideas was that utopia would only work if the whole world conformed to it, otherwise people would look at their neighbours and get greedy and posessive again
Sunshine Vayandar: take care guys ty for the chat ;)
eggsalad Ormstein: bye sun
druth Vlodovic: cya sun, it was good seeing you again
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeeee see u later ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: yes always nice to see you ;)
druth Vlodovic: a lot of the lines were drawn with "divide and conquer" in mind
eggsalad Ormstein: and wacky dictators installed
druth Vlodovic: cut a nation in three and mix it with it's neighbours and they can't mount a common defence
druth Vlodovic: then those who gain power refuse to redraw the lines along more traditional lines
eggsalad Ormstein: it was all a master plan
druth Vlodovic: northern ireland is an example of deliberate mixing of two cultures (irish and scott) in order to weaken the natives
druth Vlodovic: only the wacky would want to rule such a nation
eggsalad Ormstein: soon we will all be 3rd world countries
druth Vlodovic: "pulling them up" is a silly idea, better to defend first world countries and give the 3rd world something to strive towards
druth Vlodovic: not that we are perfect, but we are far from horrible
--BELL--
eggsalad Ormstein: I would say we wouldn't be so broke in US if we didn't spend our money trying to "help" others
druth Vlodovic: lol, politics is not really what this place is for
druth Vlodovic: 'sec

And the recorder is switched off.