2011.02.27 13:00 - Call me by my true names

The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray -- subbing for Maxine. The editing and photos are by Bruce Mowbray.

Lugh Fehr: hey bruce :)
Lugh Fehr: what's up :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Lugh. Good to see you again.
Lugh Fehr: hey bulb what's up
Lugh Fehr: you too :)
Bruce Mowbray: Blub is horny . . . so guess who gets wo wear the horns.
Lugh Fehr: hehee :D hahahaHAH
Bruce Mowbray: (Apparently they don't make horns for fish.)
Lugh Fehr: hmm imagine that two fish fighting like deer
Bruce Mowbray: btw -- How was India?
Lugh Fehr: India?
Bruce Mowbray: You look like you've been in India.

Lugh Fehr: ahh I thought I mentioned something about India and you though I went there -  hehe
Lugh Fehr: i will go soon i hope
Lugh Fehr: maybe in a year or so i can spend a year there
Bruce Mowbray: If you mentioned something about India, I missed it -- but your apparel looks quite of the Indian sort.
Lugh Fehr: yes, my character is a Indian yogi :P
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhhh! VERY good!
Bruce Mowbray: Shall I call you "Bagwan" for short, then?
Lugh Fehr: nah just psybaba :P
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhhhh!

--BELL--

Lugh Fehr: hehe a pun on my love of psychedelic music
Bruce Mowbray: cool.
Lugh Fehr: not the sai baba guy hes creepy
Lugh Fehr: hehe
Bruce Mowbray: Heyya, ooo000ooo
Lugh Fehr: and a liar, i suspect
Lugh Fehr: heya ooooOOOOooo
oO0Oo Resident creeps in and says hello to Lugh, and Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: How are yoooooooUUUUUoooo, oo00oo?
oO0Oo Resident: hehe
Lugh Fehr: hehe
oO0Oo Resident: that perked me up :)
Lugh Fehr: sunshine says hi but she cant make it
Bruce Mowbray: awwwww . . . . I will miss her.
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Sunshine
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Sunshine -- wherever you are.
oO0Oo Resident: She is here in spirit
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Sharon!
Lugh Fehr: today i was looking at the fat Buddha's statue while eating a sandwich..
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone
Lugh Fehr: hey Sharon
oO0Oo Resident: Hi SSL :)
Bruce Mowbray: Please say more, Lugh.
Lugh Fehr: and it is said he is the Buddha to come right and i thought him being fat on life, jolly, radiating.  It's the perfect place to start a spiritual journey or continue.  anyway, why be so dull and lifeless? being happy is not so hard. enjoying music, meals, sex - if you can find it - and what not. why conjure inside or outside when you still haven't conquered where your at the middle i guess
Lugh Fehr: so to become a Buddha, first be happy.  like he's not Buddha yet but fat on life
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/deities/laughing_buddha.htm
Bruce Mowbray: I love that way of thinking, Lugh.
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
Bruce Mowbray: I should laugh a lot more than I do . . . For sure!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Druth :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Druth!
druth Vlodovic: hi Sophia, everyone
SophiaSharon Larnia laughs too :)
Lugh Fehr: hey druth
Lugh Fehr: ahh he is based on a real guy.  didn't know that
oO0Oo Resident: Maitreya - Buddha of the future http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/deities/laughing_buddha.htm
Bruce Mowbray: I collect four-faced Buddhas - - - anger, smirking, smiling, and laughing -- all in one brass piece.  Yeah, but the only place I can find them is in New York City - - - which is a good reason to go there, I feel.
oO0Oo Resident: brb
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Lugh Fehr: cool
SophiaSharon Larnia: when you rub the belly for good luck which 'face' goes with it ? lol
 SophiaSharon Larnia: or is that just the laughing buddha? ;0
Bruce Mowbray: My 4-faced Buddha don't have a belly - - sry.
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe ok
Bruce Mowbray: just 4 faces -- nothing below the neck.
oO0Oo Resident: back
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've seen dakini statues like that with many faces
Bruce Mowbray: wb, ooo)))ooo
--BELL--
Lugh Fehr: Buddhists are too cagey with enlightenment 2500 years and nobody's enlightened yet? hmmm strange why they revere his words so
druth Vlodovic: I thought the enlightened one waited for every one else
oO0Oo Resident: why the interest, Lugh?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, there a many ways to view that, Lugh.
Bruce Mowbray listens. . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have several, contestable ideas about that, but have no proof about anything
Lugh Fehr: proof is for scientists
Lugh Fehr: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Bruce Mowbray: Proof is for judges and detectives, also.
Lugh Fehr: the proof is in the pudding
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Bruce Mowbray: So, if I say, "Everyone is enlightened, but only doesn't realize it yet," please don't ask me for proof.
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
Lugh Fehr: oh interest in what ?oooOOoo
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think there is a very good reason for the veil
Lugh Fehr: what's that, ssl?
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs at Bruce's laughing, that sounded so evil! haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: im waiting for someone to say something that will wake me up from this thought, but a part of me thinks that human experience is for being experiencing the world of form
SophiaSharon Larnia: to experience it, you'd have to forget what you are
Bruce Mowbray: Human experience seems very narrow -- considering all the other possibilities for experience. . . Yet, here we are.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, the world of form takes forms i have no idea what they are
SophiaSharon Larnia: or beings experiencing worlds of form and non-form
Bruce Mowbray: When I wake up from a bad sleep -- and find myself in a 'bad' mood -- should I "experience" that mood, or should I deliberately do something to have a different experience?
SophiaSharon Larnia: to experience the world of form while having full awareness of what you are, i think that is what enlightenment is
Lugh Fehr: it depends on what you want to do bruce.  I've never seen the life rule book of what should and shouldn't be done
SophiaSharon Larnia: i can't say bruce, being in a bad mood stinks
Bruce Mowbray: That is what happened this morning -- and I quickly did things that I knew would make me feel happy. . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: but think of the catalog of 'being in a bad mood' experience is
Bruce Mowbray: but later wondered whether I might have stayed with the "awareness" of the bad sleep a while longer.
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah it just stimulates stress hormones :(
oO0Oo Resident: neither to indulge nor to avert
Lugh Fehr: a guru said why conquer anger and sorrow ? why conquer things you don't value?  if your a king what do you want to conquer, a waste land or a rich land?
SophiaSharon Larnia: an indiscriminating ego may just want to conquer it all
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok wrong word sorry
Bruce Mowbray: also, it might be that happiness conquered sadness - in one way of looking at it.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Yaku!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Yaku
druth Vlodovic: hi Yaku
Lugh Fehr: and maybe you can't conquer anything.  your only choice is where you spend your time
oO0Oo Resident: hey Yaku
Lugh Fehr: hey Yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: not long ago, a part of was trying to figure out the non-dual aspect of happiness and sorrow
SophiaSharon Larnia: or whatever words you want to use as opposites there, those aren't right
Bruce Mowbray: I usually turn the laughing face of my 4-faced Buddha toward the front - - (and also my own face, usually. . . )
Bruce Mowbray: Happy/Sad . . . Take your pick?
SophiaSharon Larnia: is thinking of the theater masks lol

--BELL--

oO0Oo Resident: Thich Nhat Hanh talks about our 'true' face
SophiaSharon Larnia: i don't know Brucie
Lugh Fehr: and if you do conquer an emotion what? do you keep it in a jar behind bars? when I'm not angry, anger is nowhere to be seen. it's not conquered.  it left to bother some other buggar
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Sometimes I watch a movie to enable myself to cry -- when I know I need a good cry, but somehow can't get the crying pump primed for it. . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: conquering an emotion always seemed pathetic to me, have yet to see through that one... unless accepting what comes and doing what you can to help others
Bruce Mowbray: so, sometimes, sadness is needed -- and maybe also anger is needed.
oO0Oo Resident: movies can be cathartic in that way, Bruce
druth Vlodovic: a mask covers the emotion, to deal with it you need to reach deeper, stop suppressing and feel it, change it
oO0Oo Resident: the energy can transform yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: change it :)
Lugh Fehr: it is inevitable whit certain causes but not necessary
Bruce Mowbray: In that poem by Thich Nhat Hanh ("Call Me By My True Names") -- I think the point is that ALL of the names are our True Name -- including the Vietnamese refugee boat child who was raped by pirates (in the poem).
oO0Oo Resident nods
Bruce Mowbray: http://www.quietspaces.com/poemHanh.html
oO0Oo Resident clicks
Bruce Mowbray: "I am the twelve-year-old girl, refugee on a small boat, who throws herself into the ocean after being raped by a sea pirate, and I am the pirate, my heart not yet capable of seeing and loving."
Bruce Mowbray: "Please call me by my true names, so I can wake up, and so the door of my heart can be left open, the door of compassion."
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: yw.
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Calvino
Lugh Fehr: the universe wrote a nice poem
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Cal. Good to see you again.
Calvino Rabeni: Good SLT. Afternoon everyone
Lugh Fehr: hey calv
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Calvino :0
druth Vlodovic: hi cal
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)*
druth Vlodovic: to recognize the potential evil in oneself is a difficult thing, for one you don't wish to believe it, for another you have to hold it in and not share it for shame
Bruce Mowbray ponders Lugh's "poetic universe."
SophiaSharon Larnia: and also know that it exists in everyone
Lugh Fehr: its only evil if you look at it in a certain light and maybe squint a little
SophiaSharon Larnia: except these enlightened ones :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: there are some things I judge to be wrong, yes, a judgment
Bruce Mowbray: @ Lugh -- Could enough light put the darkness out of business, then?

--BELL--

Lugh Fehr: who stays in the dark after we invented light bulbs?
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi boxy :)
Lugh Fehr: hey alph
Bruce Mowbray: A severe thunderstorm is fast approaching - - hoping I can stay connected here. . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: ooh Bruce, I love thunderstorms, but soon you may be in darkness lol
druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure you can chase darkness away with light, you need to integrate and understand its sources so it doesn't arise
Bruce Mowbray: Hey ya, Boxy.
oO0Oo Resident wonders if antlers are conductive
druth Vlodovic: hi box
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe bruce
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Boxy :)
Alfred Kelberry: hello sweet things :)
Bruce Mowbray: well, I DO have a few light bulbs. . . although the electrical power is sometimes also knocked out by storms
Bruce Mowbray: How ya doing, Boxy?

Alfred Kelberry: not bad
Lugh Fehr: darkness is the absence of light.  it can never penetrate where light is
Alfred Kelberry: I'm just from a meeting I've attended with Woly
Bruce Mowbray was waiting for Lugh to say that. . .
Alfred Kelberry: an art project
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) nice
Bruce Mowbray: Oh -- How was it, Boxy?
druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure that isn't taking the metaphor too far
Lugh Fehr: hehe you know me too well ..i can't shut up ..it's a curse
Alfred Kelberry: well, it was all right, until griefers appeared :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking about these sources now
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no Boxy what a drag
Alfred Kelberry: the crowd is quite random
Alfred Kelberry: Lugh, we can always resort to a duct tape :)
Calvino Rabeni: Are griefers an example of evil?
Bruce Mowbray loves to hear everyone talk --
SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant shut up either, Lugh lol
Alfred Kelberry: cal, example of frustration, i think
Bruce Mowbray listens for more about griefers. . .
druth Vlodovic: it's an example of uncontrolled needs harming others
Bruce Mowbray: need for recognition?
SophiaSharon Larnia: nah, maybe of frustrated angry people, even if the harm done to your ID, bank accounts etc is severe
Calvino Rabeni: When you brought up the idea, druth, of evil, do you have something in mind about what it refers to?
Alfred Kelberry: people deal with their issues differently. some meditate, some grief :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
druth Vlodovic: evil is really harm taken to extreme
druth Vlodovic: in a person if you have peace and compassion them harmful acts seem unlikely
Calvino Rabeni: That's pretty relativistic .. like, if I deal with my needs by harming others, it's sort of equivalent to dealing with my needs by meditating
druth Vlodovic: different outs
SophiaSharon Larnia: racking up some karma/makes up for harm points tho by doing harm, if you believe that
Alfred Kelberry: cal, everything is :)
Lugh Fehr: well, light is like when you learn to do something or learn a language.  if you stay in the light and use your language it won't leave you.  if you don't, you'll forget but if the light of the mind is supposed to alleviate all pain, what reason is there not to stay in it once you entered it?
Calvino Rabeni: If evil is harm taken to the extreme, then there's a line to be drawn about what is considered extreme .. and it sort of makes it difficult to look at "little evil" as a root of "bigger evil"
SophiaSharon Larnia: i definitely know where some lines can be drawn, there is some areas we could argue about
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry typos and bad grammar :)
Calvino Rabeni: Evil includes the concept of intention, in some theology - if I do harm on purpose, when it's avoidable, that's evil, otherwise it's not considered evil
Lugh Fehr: who decides on where the lines are drawn ? i'm sure you'll find somebody to argue whith all your lines, and who's right?
Alfred Kelberry: cal, this is why insane people are not put in jail
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, but some of the lines are firm for me, i'm afraid, such as harm to children or the innocent
Alfred Kelberry: no clear intention
Calvino Rabeni: The lines exist through the process of arguing about where they should be drawn
druth Vlodovic: "avoidable" is an interesting concept when you dig deeper into a mind, a person may be uncontrollably compelled to do harm by conditioning
SophiaSharon Larnia: true
Lugh Fehr: i eat thousands of children and innocent animals and veggies a year
SophiaSharon Larnia: i hear you
oO0Oo Resident smiles at SSL
Alfred Kelberry: Catholic priests do the same, Lugh
Alfred Kelberry: yet they all go to heaven
druth Vlodovic: I suspect that is an example of excessive suppression, they tried to shed so much light it would drown out the dark, never knowing themselves
Lugh Fehr: hmm tomorrow they may go to heaven but most live in hell today

--BELL--

druth Vlodovic: you can sit now, Alfred, you have a full sized shape :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i know :)
Alfred Kelberry: um, i feel like standing :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Bruce Mowbray: "Heaven" - "Hell" . . . Mmmm. Interesting inventions of human minds.
druth Vlodovic: as long as you're wearing an attractive belt buckle I don't mind
druth Vlodovic: an attempt to impose revenge-style justice on the world at large
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
Lugh Fehr: i once, after a trip, have fallen down into hell.  it was filled with purple ghosts all yelling and screaming and i was so afraid i did the same - yell and scream and run in empty black space until i realized that i was a ghost too and im yelling and screaming because im afraid.  after that i went up to my body again. hmmm weird day that was
SophiaSharon Larnia: i had a dream like that once
SophiaSharon Larnia: or maybe i was tripping too
Bruce Mowbray gives up his hookah - for life!
Lugh Fehr: the strange thing was that it was after a trip not during and it was the weirdest one ever with some close runner-ups
SophiaSharon Larnia: sleeping after it, yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: its amazing what the mind conjures up
Lugh Fehr: no i was still awake
Alfred Kelberry: bad trip :)
Lugh Fehr: if it's the mind anyway, how do people with no imagination dream so vividly?
Alfred Kelberry: don't take those pills anymore :)
Bruce Mowbray: So, Lugh, are the purple ghosts still . . . [searches for right word] influencing you in some way, then?
Bruce Mowbray: I mean, are the ghosts convincing you to be "good"? -- or something like that?
Lugh Fehr: no i was scared sh**t-less for a while after that and that was the bite-size story but now, no they still influence me in a sense, as any past event does, but no if that's hel,l ahh its not too bad.  hehe
druth Vlodovic: excuse me, I've got to go
druth Vlodovic: have fun guys
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think that's a kind of common experience with that sort of thing
Lugh Fehr: that all was leading to a breakdown and a fuse broke - and after that things started to get better and better instead of worse and worse
Bruce Mowbray: bye, druth! Be well.
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Druth :)
oO0Oo Resident: nice to see / be Druth :)
Lugh Fehr: byebye druth
SophiaSharon Larnia: like there is a common fear in people that brings out that type of experience
Bruce Mowbray: There seem to be archetypes of fearing -- yes.  forms that evoke fearful responses in people the world over.
Lugh Fehr: most people do go through them with psychedelics, but few remember anything
SophiaSharon Larnia: fears just dwelling below the surface of consciousness
Lugh Fehr: a major one is homophobia in guys.  i see with psychedelics and the most common is going permanently crazy - being lost in the other world
Bruce Mowbray: Our survival throughout the eons has depended to some extent upon our fearing . . . . else we be eaten, etc.
oO0Oo Resident: most of our fear is conceptual, as opposed to say, when a tiger jumps on us.
Bruce Mowbray ponders homophobia, fear of the female, fear of nature, fear of the dark . . . and the unknown. . .
SophiaSharon Larnia: retraining evolutionary/societal conditioning... what a daunting task!
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Sharon -- for sure.

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe next time we won't use monkeys as beta
SophiaSharon Larnia laughs
Lugh Fehr: well real yoga is supposed to be a finished science for that.  why pave a new road when one is already built?
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Lugh Fehr: meep indeed
Bruce Mowbray - right now - is fearing the approach of a major thunderstorm. . . and needs to get off-line ASAP. . . lest his computer gets fried.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks everyone.
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Alfred Kelberry: :P
Bruce Mowbray: bfn.
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bruce! take care
Lugh Fehr: byebye bruce :)
Alfred Kelberry: bruce :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Bruce may want to rethink the antlers in a field

oO0Oo Resident: I need to eat, so that me as well, nice to see everyone :)
Lugh Fehr: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: anyway, sorry to sound crazy, gotta go and finish last weeks work :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: cute boxy i love that :D
Lugh Fehr: byebye people
Alfred Kelberry: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: i love how he tilts head at the end :)
Alfred Kelberry: bye neko girl :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye bye
Alfred Kelberry: poof
Calvino Rabeni: bye!
Calvino Rabeni: TC
Alfred Kelberry: cu :)