2011.02.14 19:00 - Music, Servants to Ego and Sexuality.

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia. This session was attended by Hokon, Pila, Stevenaia, Calvino, myself, and a day 0 newbie to SL who turns out to be not so new and apparently doesn't even want to be in SL (why he was even there then, I don't know). This session was interesting and meanders to quite divergent topics.

Hokon Cazalet: hi =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Hokon :)      (A scream is heard)
SophiaSharon Larnia: did I scare you? :p
Hokon Cazalet: hehe naw
Hokon Cazalet: the recorder did =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: It scares me too!
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Hokon Cazalet: !                   (A ka-pow! floats across the pavilion)
SophiaSharon Larnia: that sounded like somewthing out of batman hahha
Hokon Cazalet: lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: excuse me one minute :)))
Hokon Cazalet: okies
Hokon Cazalet excuses you

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: back :)
Hokon Cazalet: Yaaaaayyyyyyyy!
SophiaSharon Larnia: ha! thank you~
SophiaSharon Larnia: I dont know if I meet you before, nice to see you
Hokon Cazalet: you too =) i dunno if we've met either
SophiaSharon Larnia: I read the logs. feels like I meet people I havent actually talked to
SophiaSharon Larnia: which is kind of strange
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: have you read the wiki?
Hokon Cazalet: not a whole lot
SophiaSharon Larnia: any topic youd like to discuss?
Hokon Cazalet: naw i was coming more to listen today, chill
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes me too
Hokon Cazalet: hehe =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i always say that and then blabber away
Hokon Cazalet: lol me too
Hokon Cazalet: i like your profile picture alot, very artistic =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks
SophiaSharon Larnia: I want to do more of that kind of thing, never have time
Hokon Cazalet: aw
Hokon Cazalet: yeah i eventually wanna make music actually
SophiaSharon Larnia: what instrument(s)?
Hokon Cazalet: yet i keep spending my time on sl or reading philosophy books
SophiaSharon Larnia: right? hahaha
Hokon Cazalet: i know how to play trumpety, but learning guitar cuz id rather make music using that
SophiaSharon Larnia: id love to play the violin
Hokon Cazalet: oo me too =)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe ive had a few dreams trying to play violin
SophiaSharon Larnia: played when young and still remember how to hold the bow but thats it
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh?
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: what were the dreams like?
Hokon Cazalet: um, just tons of instruments everywhere on the bed and floor
Hokon Cazalet: trying them out
Hokon Cazalet: kinda weird hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: cool
SophiaSharon Larnia likes weird ha
Hokon Cazalet: :Þ
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Hokon Cazalet: =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dreamed about a drum tho, last night
Hokon Cazalet: oo cool
Hokon Cazalet: i like playing those, im good with keeping rythym =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: was playing drums in sl and dreamed the beat
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, nice thing is you dont have to be that good, if enough are playing
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: also with a basic drum, dont have to worry about pitches and stuff
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, helps to have one or two good ones in there
Hokon Cazalet: yes
Hokon Cazalet: yeah otherwise it can kinda spirl into a mess
Hokon Cazalet: spiral
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
Hokon Cazalet: =
Hokon Cazalet: )
SophiaSharon Larnia: been to women circles like that
Hokon Cazalet: hehe ive been with rl friends before, and thats happened :Þ
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: yep
SophiaSharon Larnia: goddess blessum! :P
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Pila!
Pila Mulligan: hi Sharon
SophiaSharon Larnia: long time no see!
Pila Mulligan: h Hokon
Pila Mulligan: yes, nice to see you

--BELL--

Hokon Cazalet: =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: talking about playing instruments, Pila
Pila Mulligan: Happy Valentine's Day
Pila Mulligan: oh, nice
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Hokon Cazalet: ❤
SophiaSharon Larnia: happy Valentines Day :))
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: how did you do the heart Hokon?
Hokon Cazalet: hehe its weird, for once im single on valientines day, but dont feel alone or heartsick
Hokon Cazalet: oh a gesture
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hokon :))
Pila Mulligan: :) aha
Hokon Cazalet: =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: ive been single plenty of times and dont feel that way now :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Hokon Cazalet: yeah getting into spiritual stuff i guess has helped me
Pila Mulligan: ❤
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Hokon Cazalet: and getting older :Þ
Pila Mulligan: hahha thanks
Hokon Cazalet: yw
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes maybe thats part of it Hokom
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hokon*
Hokon Cazalet: i think its more the spiritual stuff tbh though
Pila Mulligan: I've been monastic in my life style for a long time
Pila Mulligan: I like it
Hokon Cazalet: cool
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Pila Mulligan: and I play a doumbec :)
Hokon Cazalet: ive only gotten into spiritual stuff the past 6 months, but i like it alot
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Pila Mulligan: it helps
SophiaSharon Larnia: yay Pila
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: Sharon, I still remember one of the most insightful statements I've heard at PaB, made by you
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh?
Pila Mulligan: more than a year (maybe two) ago
Pila Mulligan: you came to a session and said you had had an insght into people and seen how strongly everyone was subjected to their ego, even wihtout realizing it
SophiaSharon Larnia: and?
Pila Mulligan: your teminaology was different, but that uis how I rememebr it
Pila Mulligan: I think your statement is true
Pila Mulligan: it is an insght that may be hard to come by
SophiaSharon Larnia: can you say more about subjected , in the way you used that word, i want to understand
Pila Mulligan: captured, a victim of, subjected to as in made to comply with
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
Hokon Cazalet: hi calvino
Pila Mulligan: the ego is dmoinant
Pila Mulligan: hi Calvino
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Calvino
Pila Mulligan: that was before you changed jobs, to help place the itming
Pila Mulligan: how are youCalvino?
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, how's it going?
Pila Mulligan: Happy Valentine's Day
SophiaSharon Larnia: because i was quite trapped in ego and can only speak from where i am at any moment
Pila Mulligan: I just dropped in as Hokon and Sharon were talking about music
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pila Mulligan: I think your observation would be a libertaing thing, Sharon
Pila Mulligan: liberating for yourself
SophiaSharon Larnia: its what the basis of pab is, really, the ego being formed by frameworks
SophiaSharon Larnia: i meant the idea of it
Pila Mulligan: ;0
SophiaSharon Larnia: the scaffoldig, the things we learn to exist as selves separate

Pila Mulligan: ego is one of those ideas like karma, it has a kind of intrinsic valiidty as a thoughtbut also some ambiguity
Calvino Rabeni: We've been taught to label the problematical parts of self as "ego" - the conservative, troublesome ones...
Pila Mulligan: but I agree, the illusion of separateness is an integral part, of both :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: to a chick in an egg, the world is white and round
Calvino Rabeni: On the other hand selves have natural impulses to expand, to go beyond, to love ...
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: And we don't use the word ego for that
Calvino Rabeni: but it's the same selves
Hokon Cazalet: yeah
Hokon Cazalet: im weird, i do use the word ego for that
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: im a bear of little brain big words other me, have to read that again lololol
Pila Mulligan: amiguity
Pila Mulligan: b*
Hokon Cazalet: but my introduction to the word ego was freud and descartes
Pila Mulligan: ahh
Pila Mulligan: I think therefore I am more than ID
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Pila Mulligan: :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pila Mulligan: I sometimes equate ego with sex
Pila Mulligan: they seem to be entangled
Calvino Rabeni: So we don't say Mother Teresa has a big "ego" because of the positive regard for such people and their expansive qualities
Hokon Cazalet: i typically use it in the philosophic sense now . . . thats an odd correlation pila
SophiaSharon Larnia: ego with humanity
SophiaSharon Larnia: to your physical being
SophiaSharon Larnia: does a dog have an ego?
Pila Mulligan: :) a koan
Calvino Rabeni: Actually I can't think of a use of the word "ego" that really defines anything ...
Hokon Cazalet: dunno, i havent lived with dogs; i know some of my cats have a sense of self

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: cause you sure can seem to hurt their feelings
Calvino Rabeni: other than sort of a place holder for a set of values about what selves are and are not supposed to be
Hokon Cazalet: well you can hurt another's feelings without them having a sense of self, just pure reactivity
Pila Mulligan: earlier I paraphrased my recollection of a statement Sharon made quite some time ago, about people being the servants of their ego, even wihtout realizing it -- the same could be said of sexual identity and desire
Hokon Cazalet: yeah im trying to master my sexuality right now, kinda tired of it being some wild force i dont have power over
SophiaSharon Larnia: hahahah
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe direct it to more spiritual uses actually lol
Pila Mulligan: that's the idea, Hokon
Pila Mulligan: :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Pila Mulligan: I'm promoting monastic lifestyle :)
Hokon Cazalet: =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: servants of the ego, sounds like a spiral indeed
Pila Mulligan: indeed
Pila Mulligan: servants of roles too
Pila Mulligan: defining oursevles indpeendently is a big leap
Hokon Cazalet: yup
Hokon Cazalet: thats a big thing im working on right now actually
SophiaSharon Larnia: with family and friends and a whole life wrapped in those roles, its not something one can drop easily
Calvino Rabeni: How can sexuality be separated from creativity, love and just "life force" ..I tend to think of them as manifestations of a holistic force Eros
Hokon Cazalet: yup sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: like in the bible, leave your family
Hokon Cazalet: quite a few can use sex hedonistically
Pila Mulligan: yes, reproduction is a primal instinct, it creats fmaily in fact
Hokon Cazalet: and western culture doesnt get sexually trained, its left to people to figure out sex for themselves
Pila Mulligan: but perhaps the independence is in how you relate to the second chakra
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Pila Mulligan: as a yogi relationhsip or a slave-master relaitonship or somehting else
Calvino Rabeni: Human beings so called higher capacities are not separate from the primal matrix they evolved from
Hokon Cazalet: id agree
Pila Mulligan: All One~ All
Pila Mulligan: one
Pila Mulligan: Dr. Bronner
Hokon Cazalet: i dont think sex and spiriuality are foes; i think its cuz of how western culture is that they end up being different
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Calvino Rabeni: Agree, and I'd say the same about "aggression"
Pila Mulligan: is sexual exploitation worse than labor exploitation
Pila Mulligan: r economic
Hokon Cazalet: yup calvino, id agree =)
Calvino Rabeni: the meaning of it is highly defined by culture
SophiaSharon Larnia: i think it is, but that a knee jerk reaction
Calvino Rabeni: even whether for instance a feeling we call anger is labeled as a positive or a negative emotion
Hokon Cazalet: i think it is pila, as sex is very powerful and psychologically powerful
Calvino Rabeni: we're taught it is negative, and experience it as such, but it isn't necessarily like that in all human cultures, or in animals
Hokon Cazalet: yeah calvino, anger is traditionally seen as a sin or negative
Hokon Cazalet: nope
Pila Mulligan: even in a Darwinian approach, there is value in relating to instincts with discretion when you can
Hokon Cazalet: i personally have re-tuned my anger, and i find it good sometimes
Calvino Rabeni: indeed
SophiaSharon Larnia: re-tuned?
Hokon Cazalet: yeah i had some anger issues in my early 20s, but found non-desturctive ways to express it
Calvino Rabeni: and in fact the whole evolution of the higher brain centers in humans can be seen as a refinement of emotional functions
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Slingland :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Slingerland*
Pila Mulligan: Welcomne to Second Life Slingerland
Hokon Cazalet: once i did it was awesome =)
Hokon Cazalet: hi slingerland
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, welcome to sl
SophiaSharon Larnia: this a is a group called play as being Slingerland
Pila Mulligan: if you'd like to sit on a cushion, you can
Slingerland Resident: I'm sitting in a chair
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i had anger issues too in my 20's too Hokon, and it never really went away, but im not the same person i was then
Pila Mulligan: right click wiht your pointer on a cushion ...
Pila Mulligan: you will see a 'sit here' option
Slingerland Resident: I know how to make the avatar sit
Pila Mulligan: ol
Pila Mulligan: cool*
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Hokon Cazalet: brb need a drink
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
Slingerland Resident: So what do you do here, just sit around?
Pila Mulligan: does anger have an ego component?
Hokon Cazalet: back
SophiaSharon Larnia: I would definately think so Pila
Pila Mulligan: we chat about stuff that comes up, no fixed agenda, except sometimes
Slingerland Resident: Only if you are pissed of at yourself.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: what's the most healthy way to be angry at yourself then?
Hokon Cazalet: anger is about something, so there's a line between the subject (ego) and the object one is mad at; so there is some sort of primordial self involved
SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking about it, I cant think of a case hat anger does not have an ego component
Slingerland Resident: Why would it be healthy or unhealthy to be angry at yourself?
SophiaSharon Larnia: even anger at someone else who did something harmful to someone other than yourself
Slingerland Resident: For that matter, why be angry at anything?
Calvino Rabeni: The brain has a cortex and a limbic system which used to be thought of as separate because thought and emotion were considered separate ... more study shows that these sections are completely interactive and integrated, and it is evidence that thought and feeling are also completely intermeshed functions.
Hokon Cazalet: you get angry at what impeds your movments, what impeds what is suppossed to work
Hokon Cazalet: or that which is a danger
Slingerland Resident: Seems obvious that they would be integrated.
Pila Mulligan: ahh, brainy peole get emotional too
Calvino Rabeni: So basically, there's little choice ... get rid of emotions and thinking disappears also
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol Pila
Slingerland Resident: No Spocks, eh?
Hokon Cazalet: yeah i always see feelings mixed in with even my most abstract thoughts
Calvino Rabeni: Brainy people use their emotions to know whether their thoughts have quality
Pila Mulligan: hi oO0Oo
SophiaSharon Larnia: ooh is that it Cal??? no wonder Im such a dullard then
Calvino Rabeni: You're not a dullard
Slingerland Resident: yes I am
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Samuo :))
Hokon Cazalet: hi oO0Oo

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: happy Valentine's Day
Hokon Cazalet: ❤
SophiaSharon Larnia: ^^
Pila Mulligan: >3
SophiaSharon Larnia: <3
Pila Mulligan: ❤
Pila Mulligan: *
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
oO0Oo Resident: Hi everyone, nice to see you all
Hokon Cazalet: =)
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: ~***~
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok chat room 1996
Calvino Rabeni: ❤ Everyone has basically the same equipment, but there are slight variations.. people can develop or regard these as special gifts
Calvino Rabeni: ❤
SophiaSharon Larnia: have been thinking much about what Maxine said about embroyonic cells
Pila Mulligan: ....?
Pila Mulligan: what did she say, please, Sharon?
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm, was in retreat
SophiaSharon Larnia: how was that worded?? lol
Calvino Rabeni: If you could make AI robots, and created two football teams, but gave one team 1% better offensive capabilities, and the other 1%better defence, then let them learn and develop, they would differentiate complete strategies and identities around those slight differences. These would be emergent properties ... a little like what evolves from cells in a tissue
SophiaSharon Larnia: i forget, just thinking about how an embroynic cell is the basis for everything, and how it differeniated itself
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, all units at different scales, from cells up, differentiate themselves in their interactions with their world and others like themselves
Hokon Cazalet: brb potty
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Calvino Rabeni: through cooperation, competition, and .. boundaries
Calvino Rabeni: based on participating in those ways
Calvino Rabeni: what is "inside" radiates outward
Calvino Rabeni: and what is "outside" forms the terms for the inner life
Pila Mulligan: like playing music
Calvino Rabeni: :) Life as Jam Session
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pila Mulligan: and last week was Bob Marley's birthday
SophiaSharon Larnia: :P
Pila Mulligan: 'let's get otgether and be allright'
SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Slingerland
Slingerland Resident: No-one else around where I went
SophiaSharon Larnia: sl is a big place, its just a matter of finding your way around
Pila Mulligan: this mnust be the place then
Slingerland Resident: This place seems moderately amuzing
Calvino Rabeni: I'd guess one's choice in musical personalities is pretty revealing
Slingerland Resident: REvealing of what?
Pila Mulligan: we muze a bit
SophiaSharon Larnia muzes
Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, we do .. silently muse every 15 minutes during a Pause
Pila Mulligan: muze music
Calvino Rabeni: and then muse in conversation most of the rest of the time
Pila Mulligan: did someone ask Slinger about the wiki posts?
SophiaSharon Larnia: i forgot
Slingerland Resident: Who is Slinger?
Pila Mulligan: youo are :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: slinger, we record our chats here and post them to our wiki, is it ok to include your name?
Slingerland Resident: Not according to what's above my Avatar.
Pila Mulligan: true
SophiaSharon Larnia: (can someone post the link please? ) :)))
SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant open web pages atm in sl
Slingerland Resident: I don't care. It's not my name.
Pila Mulligan: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2011
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks Slingerland
Slingerland Resident: sure thing
Pila Mulligan: goes back some three years, four times a day -- quite a record
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, really amazing
SophiaSharon Larnia: im in awe of it all the time
Calvino Rabeni: True .. so far no one has made a "machine" to mine the gold out of that ore
Pila Mulligan: or is ti almost four years
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm Cal
Calvino Rabeni: or otherwise subject it to an alchemical process
SophiaSharon Larnia: had a picture of grad students poring over it before
Hokon Cazalet: back

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: and knowing that they were missing a lot by just reading the logs
Pila Mulligan: wb Hokon
SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Hokon
Hokon Cazalet: =)
SophiaSharon Larnia: theres a whole inner life in there
Pila Mulligan: :)
Slingerland Resident: in where?
Pila Mulligan: an extended family
Pila Mulligan: in the chat logs
SophiaSharon Larnia: in the conversations that take place in, around and out of the logs on the wiki
Pila Mulligan: like any fmaily it has its highs and lows
Slingerland Resident: I suppose there is an "inner life" in anything that is written down
Slingerland Resident: Hard to imagine 2nd life as family
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont know, ive read some stuff that had no life
Pila Mulligan: but it is an interesting accumulation
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Slingerland, it is hard to imagine
Pila Mulligan: es it is
Pila Mulligan: y*
Pila Mulligan: it surprised me actually
Slingerland Resident: Actually, I would describe it as unimaginable
Pila Mulligan: within Second Life there are opportunities for fellowship as well as the rest of the superficial stuff
Hokon Cazalet: yup pila
Calvino Rabeni: What would it take for it - or anything - to be "like family"?
SophiaSharon Larnia: alot of superficial stuff
Pila Mulligan: familiarity :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes that
Slingerland Resident: It would have to be real; 2nd life isn't
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Hokon Cazalet: second life is real, real people are here
Pila Mulligan: now there's a subject
Slingerland Resident: No, it's just a game. The people here aren't real.
Hokon Cazalet: lol
Hokon Cazalet: solipsist :Þ
SophiaSharon Larnia: omg Im not real!~ ack!!!
Pila Mulligan: was telegraph communication 100 years ago real?
Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
SophiaSharon Larnia: crisis!!
Pila Mulligan: Paradies the subject is how real is SL?
Hokon Cazalet: hehe sphia
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Paradise
Paradise Tennant: smiles hello pila .. hokon sophia . cal .. O :))
Slingerland Resident: sure. But this is all fake. All false images put up and not actually connection with anyone.
Hokon Cazalet: hi paradise
SophiaSharon Larnia: how many times have I said that!!!????
SophiaSharon Larnia: omg
Paradise Tennant: hiya slingerland :)
Hokon Cazalet: then your talking to yourself slinger?
oO0Oo Resident: hey paradise
Pila Mulligan: that may be true for many Slinger
Hokon Cazalet: since your not real, i wont chat with you then :Þ
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Slingerland Resident: I didn't say that. But I have no idea who or what any of you are. Nor do you me.
Paradise Tennant: lol
Pila Mulligan: those who just play with SL
Paradise Tennant: but that is what makes it interesting in a way
Pila Mulligan: keeping theselves amoflauged
Slingerland Resident: For example. "you assumed when I first came that I am new. But I might not be. I could have spent the past four years coming here.
Paradise Tennant: we are starting without preconception
SophiaSharon Larnia: but, i would bet, that there was a person sitting at your keyborad
Pila Mulligan: camoflauged
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: I actually thought of that :)
Hokon Cazalet: maybe not sophia, could be a chat bot
Hokon Cazalet: (ive seen that actually)
SophiaSharon Larnia: true Slingerland, in fact, I thought so
Slingerland Resident: Thought what?
Paradise Tennant: and frankly you could be a large tabby cat in rl and I would still find it quite interesting to talk to you . specially engaging that you coud type :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe Hokon!! chat bots have gotten very sophisticated
Pila Mulligan: after all, you knew how to sit already
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes indeed Paradise! :)
Slingerland Resident: any idiot could learn how to sit in two seconds
Pila Mulligan: I did :)
Hokon Cazalet: i see sl like a giant group phone call
Hokon Cazalet: just really coloful and we use fake names
Slingerland Resident: The fake names make the whole thing fake.
Hokon Cazalet: whats in a name, is not a rose still a rose by any other name?
Slingerland Resident: No consequences for saying whatever you want.
Pila Mulligan thinks how Pila is my real name
Paradise Tennant: no .. the realness of people .. comes through very quickly .. :) what is captivating about this type of interreaction is how the real you .. manifests in the choices you make :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol PIla
Slingerland Resident: People using SL just hide behind the avatar and can project whatever identity they want. No consequences.
Hokon Cazalet: you can do the same with a phone, or even in rl tbh
Hokon Cazalet: (most people cant fake it in rl though)
Paradise Tennant: no there are consequences ..every thought every action you take changes you
Slingerland Resident: Sure. But this is a place designed to obfuscate one's real identity, the phone isnt
Paradise Tennant: it is unavoidable why thinking well is a must :)
Paradise Tennant: well the phone only catches the sound part of you
Hokon Cazalet: we assume SL is a game cuz it looks like a computer game; in reality its not much different than a chat room
Paradise Tennant: this captures your visual preferences and your thoughts :) too :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia: except i can make things here :)
Hokon Cazalet: hehe
Paradise Tennant: yes and she does that really really really well !
Hokon Cazalet: yeah true, chat rooms your a disembodied avatar
Hokon Cazalet: hehe its an incorporeal domain
SophiaSharon Larnia: as opposed to being a bodies avatar
Pila Mulligan: could this bringing us back to the earlier subject of ego? does your SL play reflect anything real?
SophiaSharon Larnia: bodied*
Slingerland Resident: No, it's not real.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Pila
Hokon Cazalet: it does in one way or another, even if your faking it (just then outsiders wont easily be able to interpret it)
Pila Mulligan: just like a dream then?
SophiaSharon Larnia: aspects of self
Calvino Rabeni: It's not so easy to "project any identity you like" .. and the "liking" makes the projected identites just what the real self is capable of projecting .. thus showing itself through that process
Hokon Cazalet: talking to people in dreams is fun actually
SophiaSharon Larnia: even shadows
Paradise Tennant: yes I think so :) it reflects how you think ..what you value .. in a way it is a creative expression of self that is not physically constrained
Slingerland Resident: I think of it more like masturbation than a dream. Not the same as the real thing.
Hokon Cazalet: if sl isnt real, then emails arent real, phones arent real . . .
Pila Mulligan: is masturbation real?
Hokon Cazalet: yes i hope so!
Paradise Tennant: mine you we know there is no self ..so that part is a bit confusing :)
Calvino Rabeni: But if you mean, Slinger, that it makes a difference that "less is at stake here" then I agree with you.
Paradise Tennant: I disagree
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, this was fun :))
Slingerland Resident: Nothing is at stake here.
Paradise Tennant: you have as much at stake
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go to real life and finish some work before bed :D
Hokon Cazalet: wasted time is at stake hehe
Calvino Rabeni: hehe
Slingerland Resident: That is a fact.
Pila Mulligan: bye Sharon -- nice to see you
Hokon Cazalet: bye sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: nice to talk to you all, be well!!!
Hokon Cazalet: lack of huge conseuqnces doesnt make something unreal
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
Slingerland Resident: I used to waste a lot of time in SL, then I left for a year or so. This is my first time back.
Paradise Tennant: namaste sopia
Paradise Tennant: sophia :)
Hokon Cazalet: like if i play with legos, no much onseuqnce there, but the legos are indeed real
Calvino Rabeni: What is at stake .. when one dialogues in second life about whether "anything is at stake" ?
Paradise Tennant: lol
Pila Mulligan: :)
Slingerland Resident: Nothing is at stake.
Paradise Tennant: well you are at stake
Hokon Cazalet: if i talk to a stranger over the phone, i can hang up easily, no consequence, still real

--BELL--

Slingerland Resident: How am I at stake?
Pila Mulligan: you are at stake because your identity is caught up in defending your thoughts
Hokon Cazalet: virtual particles have (almost) no conseuqnce on the world, but are real :Þ
Paradise Tennant: smiles ... everything you do .. everything you think .. how you interreact with others .. all imprints it all changes you :) it changes them .. there are ripples :)
Slingerland Resident: Nah. My identity isn't caught up in it. I don't really care if this is right or wrong. It doesn't matter.
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Pila Mulligan: now there's an open mind
Pila Mulligan: your thoughts were also my first thoughts on seenig SL
Slingerland Resident: Well. come on. Is this discussion really of any import at all?
Pila Mulligan: not an unheard of position
Pila Mulligan: it could be
Pila Mulligan: depends
Hokon Cazalet: you notice slinger has backpedalled, he first said it wasnt real, and when it became clear that was wrong, he now falls back to "not important" . . .
Calvino Rabeni: For instance, someone goes to second life, and spends 20 minutes asserting whether something is at stake or not ... this causes one to have a feeling, maybe frustration ,,. maybe elation .. i've heard it both ways ... that mood biases one's sense of human potentials .. there are effects radiating out through our subjective networks ... 20 minutes of "real" time is gone ... X number of watts of energy are consumed... people read the logs and form ideas ...
Slingerland Resident: Bull shit, Hokon. I haven't backpedalled. None of this is real, nor important.
Pila Mulligan: suppose you learn somethiing?
Paradise Tennant: people smile at each other and understand one another :)
Hokon Cazalet: lol ok nvm, you adhere to views in spite of the evidence
Pila Mulligan: just a wee bit of somethinig
Slingerland Resident: I didn't see any evidence.
Calvino Rabeni: SO one thing that is at stake is how I feel about observing people spending time and energy doing things taht are called "unimportant" and "unreal"
Hokon Cazalet: learn to read then, all you make is rhetorical comments, you have yet to explain why our comments were wrong beyond generalizties
Pila Mulligan: well, I hope any objections to contrary views do ont have real impact
Slingerland Resident: Thanks for the instruction, Hokon.
Hokon Cazalet: yw
Calvino Rabeni: when I could have been doing something "realer" like vaccuuming the carpet or sorting the junk drawers
Slingerland Resident: Obviously, you are far brighter than I
Hokon Cazalet: probably, given that you think a person over the phone isnt real cuz you dont see them face to face
Hokon Cazalet: pretty goofy idea
Slingerland Resident: I never said that. You said that.
Hokon Cazalet: your ideas logically lead to that
Hokon Cazalet: ive shown you how they do, you have yet to refute my argument, poiunt by point, instead you spout empty rhetoric
Slingerland Resident: Not really. But if you are mis-representing yourself on the phone, then it seems pretty much like this. Fake.
Paradise Tennant: junk drawers are fascinating :) love junk drawers they are like little physics experiment proving the quantum theory that the universe trends towards chaos :)
Slingerland Resident: I didn't notice that you had an argument.
Hokon Cazalet: then learn to read, more empty rhetoric, explain how i had no argument
Pila Mulligan: rhetoric is an argument :)
Hokon Cazalet: any fool can spout off opinions
Paradise Tennant: bottom of my purse does that really well too !
Pila Mulligan: I can :)
Hokon Cazalet: btw if this is all fake, why are you replying to me? why do you see this text as real enough to reply to? =)
Pila Mulligan: if you rememebr the comic L'il Abner, a common line wa sosmeone would say 'any fool can see that' and Abner would say, 'I can see that' -- still one of my favorite 'toons
Calvino Rabeni notes the power of speech acts that label things in certain ways while claiming "I am not labeling anything" :)
Slingerland Resident: Anyway, Hokon, you pretty much proved my point. I just spouted off a bunch of BS to see if you would take the bait and you did. This is just a game.
Hokon Cazalet: oh wow im such a fool *rolls eyes*
Hokon Cazalet: yes i got duped by a man who spouts empty rhetoric wow
Slingerland Resident: Yes, I suspect you are, but that is another issue.
Pila Mulligan: hi Steve
Slingerland Resident: How do you know I'm a man?
Hokon Cazalet: wow i use Reason, and i lost cuz your pig headed lol
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Hokon Cazalet: man/he is the default sex in english
Slingerland Resident: you're
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya steve :) gtsy
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Hokon Cazalet: english is sexist =P
Slingerland Resident: Sexist
Calvino Rabeni: You arrived at an interesting time, Stevenais
stevenaia Michinaga: appearently
Hokon Cazalet: yeah all you can do is fix my typos, not reply to my arguments, typical dunderhead
Pila Mulligan: a debate on the reality of SL
Calvino Rabeni: We have an argument that is called not an argument
Slingerland Resident: you didn't make an argument
stevenaia Michinaga: now what's all this talk of gender confusion
Paradise Tennant: smiles we are having a lively .. unreal .. rehtorical .. round about :)
Pila Mulligan: in a place that is not a place
Pila Mulligan: :)
Hokon Cazalet: go to philosophy house, theyll love you there :Þ
Calvino Rabeni: hehe :)
Hokon Cazalet: explain how i didnt, otherwise: more empty rhetoric
Slingerland Resident: explain how you did
Hokon Cazalet: you have failed to be nothing but a sophist, blacklisted for stupidity
Calvino Rabeni: There are places in SL that *love* this kind of dialogue, true :)
Hokon Cazalet: appeal to ignorance fallacy
Slingerland Resident: But I'm having a grand time baiting you.
Pila Mulligan: ahh, a first step then
Hokon Cazalet: lol im glad your happy looking stupid
Paradise Tennant: ooo wait this is valentine's day why not but aside this form of conversation and do .. create something real .. :)
Calvino Rabeni: I think Hokon baited Slinger into doing some baiting :)
Hokon Cazalet: yeah ill just mute him and end it
Calvino Rabeni: Nice idea Paradise!
Hokon Cazalet: yup calinvo, he keeps replying to me
Slingerland Resident: Do you actually think I care about looking stupid in SL? This isn't my identity--it's fake. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about it. I have nothing to lose, because you don't know who I am.
Hokon Cazalet: ive baited him
Paradise Tennant: smiles :) a poem go round then .. who would like to start :)
Pila Mulligan: [20:14] Slingerland Resident: I used to waste a lot of time in SL, then I left for a year or so. This is my first time back.
Pila Mulligan: what brought you back?
Hokon Cazalet: my goal was to expose his dogmatism and arrogance, i have won; so im done
Hokon Cazalet: Yaaaaayyyyyyyy!
Slingerland Resident: Bordome. I am waiting for someone and don't have a book handy.
Pila Mulligan: ahh, well you livened the vening
Pila Mulligan: evening*
stevenaia Michinaga: aww.... the need to win... win what?
Slingerland Resident: It would seem.
Hokon Cazalet: naw i just run into these crackpots all over the internet, its rather annoying, and im tired of people being wusses
Slingerland Resident: Apparently, I lost something, although I'm not sure what.
Hokon Cazalet: i call out the fruads for who they are
Pila Mulligan: I tihnk that I shall never see a fake as lovely as a nice SL tree
Slingerland Resident: Everyone in SL is a fraud
Pila Mulligan: harsh
Slingerland Resident: fact
Calvino Rabeni: Grouch
Hokon Cazalet: these people are harsh to me, so im harsh back
Pila Mulligan: contrardicted by expereince
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Calvino Rabeni: Lots of contradictions
Slingerland Resident: But my experience is that all I've met in SL are fakes.
Calvino Rabeni: wouldn't want to get stuck in some non--contradictable stance .. how boring would that be!
Pila Mulligan: I see
Hokon Cazalet: i dont see the point of pretending to have a dialouge with somebody that is here to troll, so i stop being nice
stevenaia Michinaga: did I walk into a Monty Pythn sketch?
oO0Oo Resident: Forgive me, I have not followed this discussion very closely at all. I came to indulge something on my mind.
Hokon Cazalet: and he did admit he was a troll btw, he has said stuff to bait me and others
Hokon Cazalet: so he is worthy of banning
Pila Mulligan: what is on your mind?
Paradise Tennant: lol shrubbery anyone ?
Hokon Cazalet: Ni!
Slingerland Resident: Sure, you can ban me if you want. I don't much care.
Paradise Tennant: looks for a very still parrot :)
oO0Oo Resident: Thank you for your forbearance.

--BELL--

oO0Oo Resident: I have been contemplating the last few days, the vastness of being as experienced individually, and seen/felt sitting together sometimes. In this context I have been thinking of all the people from different walks of life, who potentially read the wiki of these conversations ~ from different places on the planet, speaking many languages, immersed in and from different cultures to my own, having different socio-economic backgrounds, political situations, religious/spiritual beliefs. people of different gender, and age, childhood backgrounds, amongst many other 'categories'. Then I think, of how easy it is for me personally to get into a cozy, small mind set in this pavilion with what seem like only a few individuals, who all speak English, and have constructed appearances, some of whom have known each other for longer than others, all of whom upon which I project my own biases, prejudices, desires, and aversions. I realize the things I say actually go out to a much larger potential audience, some of
Slingerland Resident: deep, man
oO0Oo Resident: of whom do not see the world as I do, and who even may be offended by things I say, even (and sometimes especially) intended as humorous, my having made assumptions about all of whom I'm speaking with. Furthermore, I see some people relating to this place as a protected (contained) "safe space". Some people to varying degrees, share their journey, disclosing a fair amount at times. I would like to hold this kind of disclosure in respect, and not take advantage of it, to the best of my ability. I would like to conduct myself in a way that supports people's journey, and their wisdom, and their health. I hope you all will continue to remind me if I create offense, or come across as taking advantage, or belittling others. Thank you That's all I wanted to say. Take care, and be well everybody.
Pila Mulligan: bye
Hokon Cazalet: your cool oO0Oo
Paradise Tennant: good nite O thank you :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Hokon Cazalet: its only our self-admitted troll thats a problem, again, common admin rules online ask for his banning (i wont comment further)
Slingerland Resident: Well, that was fun. Thanks.
Slingerland Resident: Um, Hokon, do you think I'm going to come back?
Pila Mulligan: oO0Oo seemed to giving a kind of caveat for sensitivity
Hokon Cazalet: i wont be sensitive to people who disrupt conversation, ive seen places flooded by these people
Hokon Cazalet: sorry, i wont
Paradise Tennant: yes nicely done .. very thought ful :)
Hokon Cazalet: fine ill leave, since im the bad guy
Pila Mulligan: not in my view
Hokon Cazalet: have fun when this place becomes like philosophy house
Paradise Tennant: O comments really captured alot
Slingerland Resident: No, no. hokon. You are the good guy. You pointed out that I am a horrid thing who should be banned.
Hokon Cazalet: yes im insensitive for calling out a troll, poor evil me
Hokon Cazalet rolls eyes
Pila Mulligan: Hokon, bad guy is not an issue
Hokon Cazalet: saying im insensitive is calling me a bad guy sorry
Pila Mulligan: oO0Oo's sensitivity was the idea I referred to
Paradise Tennant: me too :)
Pila Mulligan: her awarenes sof the wider audience
Paradise Tennant: yes
Hokon Cazalet: yeah we should let trolls be part of us, wow how enlightened
Slingerland Resident: Actually, I thought in reading the stuff on this place that discussing the reality of SL would be right in line.
Hokon Cazalet: its amazing how people in sl are so ok with stupid shit
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: well they are :) really we are sort of one big thing :)
Slingerland Resident: I really seem to have pissed you off, Hokon.
Pila Mulligan: seems so SLinger
Slingerland Resident: Was the capital SL intentional? If so, I like it.
Pila Mulligan: nope, a typo, but likebale still
Slingerland Resident: I wondered where you might have drummed that one up, but alas it was just an accident.
Pila Mulligan: I tihnk Hokon had gotten used to the more polite an dlaid back chat here
Pila Mulligan: and missed it in the cours eof the recent dispute
Paradise Tennant: smiles well getting late here wishing everyone a happier less .. tumultous frame of mind :)
Pila Mulligan: nice to see you Paradise
Paradise Tennant: and a happy valentine's day :)
Slingerland Resident: Well. Sorry to have disturbed that.. I'll go back to my tumult.
Pila Mulligan: same to you
stevenaia Michinaga: seems tonight will be an interesting read
Paradise Tennant: always nice to see you pila :)
Slingerland Resident: Nto all that interesting, actually. It really never did develop into an interesting discussion. Pretty boring, actually.
Pila Mulligan: try it again soetime, but maybe with more listneing Slinger
Paradise Tennant: nite nite :) namaste my friends :)
Pila Mulligan: bye Paradise
Slingerland Resident: Nah. Listening isn't my thing. This was a one-and-done SL evening.
Pila Mulligan: gald it is done then
stevenaia Michinaga: night PAradise
Slingerland Resident: bye
Pila Mulligan: bye
Calvino Rabeni: back
Calvino Rabeni: Where did everybody go?
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Pila Mulligan: off to othe rthings, some angry
Pila Mulligan: not a happy ending
stevenaia Michinaga: wonders when the last angry moment was here
Pila Mulligan: it happens some times
Pila Mulligan: do yuo rememebr the fellow who's thing was to provoke argument son abortion?
stevenaia Michinaga: and continues, what;s a troll?
Pila Mulligan: I'm not sure
Pila Mulligan: a couple of years ago this fellow kept coming to sessions and egging people about abortion -- evenutally I think it was Schatach and Tamrel who rounded on him
Pila Mulligan: he left
Calvino Rabeni: A troll is an angry person who likes stirring things up and gets an addictive effect from doing so
stevenaia Michinaga: makes sence, loves to hear themselves speak
Calvino Rabeni: Addicted to conflict
stevenaia Michinaga: I remember that Pila,
stevenaia Michinaga: knew what buttons to push
Pila Mulligan: it is somewhere in the logs
Calvino Rabeni: There are also organized gangs of trolls who engage in systematic cyber-bullying
Calvino Rabeni: I read a study recently about that phenomenon

--BELL--

stevenaia Michinaga: wonders what the point of all that could be?
Calvino Rabeni: The point of all what, Steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: gangs od cyber bullying
Pila Mulligan: dominance maybe
stevenaia Michinaga: strange mode to satisfaction
Pila Mulligan: yes, but unfortunately also fairly common
Calvino Rabeni: There was a stereotype of the cyber-bully as an isolated individual with low self-esteem ... it turned out neither was really true .. often the bullys are organized and have inflated self-esteem .. often children of "priviledge"
Pila Mulligan: noblese unobliged
stevenaia Michinaga: seems like a pointless endevour, none the less
Pila Mulligan: the fine line between taking a position and being rude is something that seems to keep people's senstivities alive here
Pila Mulligan: Slinger came in with an attitude that did not let him hold that view
Pila Mulligan: so his sensitivities were pretty much DOA
Pila Mulligan: but having had a similar view of SL myself at one time -- that it was just a cartoon game -- I could not disregard the possibilty that he might grow through it
stevenaia Michinaga: I ahve noticed in some of those who have passed through our little group have come in with one attitiude and wound up completely tranformed
Pila Mulligan: true :)
stevenaia Michinaga: that must includes you, then Pila
Pila Mulligan: well, in terms of my attitude toward SL, yes it does
Pila Mulligan: I rememebr animated chat from the days of Dreamscape long ago, more than 10 years ago
Pila Mulligan: it was just an online chat session ... that defined my SL expectations
Pila Mulligan: but PaB and a few other places here seem to get a bit better depth in terms of the people involved
Pila Mulligan: so you see more of them
Pila Mulligan: more depth
Pila Mulligan: Dreamscape evolved to this: http://www.vzones.com/
Pila Mulligan: SL seems to be evolving to OpenSIm

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamscape_%28chat%29 -- Dreamscape was created in 1994
stevenaia Michinaga: looks a bit like the charateers on Pogo, an online game site
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, I wonder what the title of this Log will be .. ?
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway .. dinner awaits
Calvino Rabeni: Good to see you ,,, take care
Pila Mulligan: nice to see you Calvino
Pila Mulligan: bye for now
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Cal
Calvino Rabeni: <3 Happy Valentines Day <3
Calvino Rabeni: Bye
stevenaia Michinaga: thx
Pila Mulligan: ❤
Pila Mulligan: Hokon had a gesture make ro ❤
Pila Mulligan: for*
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks, once I figre out how to use it
Pila Mulligan: type < and 3 together
stevenaia Michinaga: <3
Pila Mulligan: ❤ like a diseways heart
Pila Mulligan: sideways*
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
stevenaia Michinaga: <3
Pila Mulligan: but you have to activate the gesture
stevenaia Michinaga: is somethign supposed to happen when I do that?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: it makes the symbol<3
stevenaia Michinaga: <3
Pila Mulligan: ❤
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hmm
stevenaia Michinaga: well bed time for me, was Sophia Sharon the guardian for tonight?
stevenaia Michinaga: I jsut checked, yes
stevenaia Michinaga: night Pila