The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Alfred Kelberry, myself and another person who didn't want their conversation recorded.

Alfred Kelberry: zen :)
Alfred Kelberry: alone?
Zen Arado: Hi Alfred:)
Zen Arado: no - someone else is here but doesn't want comments recorded
Alfred Kelberry: yes, right. i remember :)
Alfred Kelberry: how are you?
Alfred Kelberry: relaxing?
Zen Arado: pretty good and you?
Alfred Kelberry: *listens to the birds singing*
Alfred Kelberry: i'm good
Zen Arado: a bit tired these cold dark mornings
Alfred Kelberry: popped in to see if anyone is here at this hour
Zen Arado: but coming around slowly :)
Alfred Kelberry: good :)
Alfred Kelberry: sadly, aph is still trapped :/
Zen Arado: we were talking about meditation
Zen Arado: I see her
Zen Arado: on the map
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i talked to gilles beside her yesterday
Alfred Kelberry: is anything being done about it?
Alfred Kelberry: as i understand the sim should be restarted
Zen Arado: I haven't heard - it is hard to contact Linden and co
Alfred Kelberry: :/
Alfred Kelberry: well.. aph, if you read this, we miss you and hope it'll be resolved soon
Zen Arado: but I never heard this happening to anyone else
Alfred Kelberry: bruce
Zen Arado: she still attends sessins as an alt
Alfred Kelberry: oh! really?
Alfred Kelberry: what's her name?
Alfred Kelberry: i never noticed
Zen Arado: she has a couple at least
Alfred Kelberry: ah...
Zen Arado: I can't remember but she usually tells us
Alfred Kelberry: ok
Alfred Kelberry: good to know she has access
Alfred Kelberry: sorry, i interrupted you...
Alfred Kelberry: you were saying about meditation
Zen Arado: we were talking about MBSR
Zen Arado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindful...ress_reduction
Alfred Kelberry: oh...
Zen Arado: and how I got started on meditation practice
Alfred Kelberry: finding inner self?
Zen Arado: well...some start it to clam the mkind
Zen Arado: and to deal with depression and other stress related didorders
Alfred Kelberry: how long have you been doing it?
Zen Arado: about 6 years
Zen Arado: but I got into it through getting interseted in zen
Alfred Kelberry: wow
Zen Arado: it is a short time in meditation Alf :)
Zen Arado: you practice meditation Alf?
Alfred Kelberry: so, it's basically mindfulness practice (e.g. vipassana) with a western trait?
Alfred Kelberry: um... yes, not regulary, though
Zen Arado: the guy who started it was a zen practitioner and thought meditation might help people in the hospital where he worked
Alfred Kelberry: i find that simple awareness in the moment is helpful
Zen Arado: JOn Kabat Zinn
Alfred Kelberry: ah, then it must be zazen in his case
Zen Arado: yes - but don't get too hung up on definitions - he practiced Vipassana as well
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: yes, in fact, i don't see much difference in them :)
Zen Arado: they are very keen on a type of meditation called a 'body scan'
Alfred Kelberry: oh, can you tell more?
Zen Arado: I can get you a link if you want to try a guided one?
Alfred Kelberry: sure
Zen Arado: it is about paying attention to each part of your body in turn
Zen Arado: a bit like vipassana
Zen Arado: it is very relaxing
Alfred Kelberry: yes, in vipassana it's mostly chest or tip of your nose
Zen Arado: http://www.archive.org/details/MCull...ScanMeditation
Zen Arado: ah but that is concentration on the breath
Alfred Kelberry: body scan - a very western name :)
Zen Arado: but try it and see
Alfred Kelberry: some may think of an airport :)
Zen Arado: it is an old Buddhist technique though
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Zen Arado: it is useful to do if you can't sleep too
Alfred Kelberry: i'm just "playing" :)
Zen Arado: it gets your attention away from thoughts in the mind
Alfred Kelberry: i usually fall asleep quickly
Zen Arado: you are so lucky
Alfred Kelberry: no, i just get tired enough when brain shuts down :)
Zen Arado: sometimes the more I think the less chance I have of shutting down my brain
Alfred Kelberry: i like to read before i sleep. it helps, too.
Zen Arado: so I feel sleepy in the mornings and wide awake at night
Zen Arado: yes - good idea - best to read trashy novels :)
Alfred Kelberry: characteristic of an owl :)
Zen Arado: yep
Alfred Kelberry: i'm something like that
Alfred Kelberry: can't read novels - too boring
Alfred Kelberry: i go with non-fiction
Zen Arado: you have to suspend your critical faculty a bit - ok a lot sometimes :)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: well, i've tried not once
Alfred Kelberry: never could go past a few pages
Zen Arado: I find Hollywood movies so stupid
Zen Arado: formulaic...sigh...
Alfred Kelberry: how so?
Zen Arado: they always have such predictable elements
Zen Arado: a car chase is one
Alfred Kelberry: hey! you have to suspend your criticality about hollywood movies :)
Alfred Kelberry: ah, that
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Zen Arado: and a beautiful woman like Angelina Joli...
Alfred Kelberry: is she?
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: well - I think so....
Alfred Kelberry: ok
Zen Arado: not sure she would be too interesting other ways ....
Alfred Kelberry: she's doing humanitarian work, though. i respect her for that.
Zen Arado: is she? didn't know that
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: i think action movies are artificially "dumbed down" to grab as much audience as possible with emphasis on pure entertainment - which *is* fun to watch now and then
Zen Arado: I shouldn't be so judgemental - if she wants to go out with me I'll give her a chance :)
Alfred Kelberry: she's a goodwill ambassador for un
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Alfred Kelberry: i'd like to have a cup of tea with her
Zen Arado: yes - it is a business and they have to provide what people want I guess
Zen Arado: so you just have to suspend criticism and go with it
Zen Arado: but it is the same with novels for me
Alfred Kelberry: i'd rather watch a movie than read a novel
Zen Arado: and at least I can use my own imagination there
Alfred Kelberry: much quicker and you see pretty pictures with music :)
Zen Arado: if you read a grreat novel by a great writer though...
Alfred Kelberry: oh, i tried them... tosltoy, dostoevsky, etc - boring :)
Zen Arado: ok....it's just a matter of taste I guess
Alfred Kelberry: i do admire their talent, though
Zen Arado: I love DH Lawrence...
Alfred Kelberry: yes, taste... whatever that is
Zen Arado: he was into Eastern religions and stuff like that I believe
Alfred Kelberry: wiki says he wrote in genre of modernism
Zen Arado: I believe Lawrence was into mindfulness practice
Zen Arado: that's why he write such beautiful descriptive passages...
Zen Arado: he was fully there...
Zen Arado: wrote *
Alfred Kelberry: well, i take it he was also a talent :)
Zen Arado: but a writer can only write about what he sees ar has seen
Alfred Kelberry: if mindfulness let him realize it even more - good for him
Zen Arado: in their descriptive passages anyway
Alfred Kelberry: i wouldn't specifically attribute it to mindfulness practice
Zen Arado: oh no....he obviously had great talent too I agree
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: he's got some non-fiction writings. that i could read.
Zen Arado: but when you read 'Sons and Lovers' and books like that you realize just how close his observation of the mining community he lived in were
Zen Arado: he wrote a lot of poetry too I believe
Alfred Kelberry: i find modern prose-like poetry puzzling :)
Zen Arado: maybe you ahve a more logical brain Alf
Zen Arado: you are more oriented towards science ?
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: drop the form, emphasize the substance - well, i like the form to be in place as well :)
Alfred Kelberry: *nods*
Zen Arado: I am more of an 'all rounder' I guess
Alfred Kelberry: that's nice
Alfred Kelberry: i try to be as well :)
Zen Arado: but not really good at anything :)
Zen Arado: I did an engineering degree
Alfred Kelberry: but i do like my poems to rhyme :)
Zen Arado: but also an Arts and Humanities one
Alfred Kelberry: ah, lovely
Zen Arado: and one in philosophy
Zen Arado: I worked in Engineering
Alfred Kelberry: i think you can officially hold an all-rounder title :)
Zen Arado: but I am now an abstract painter :)
Zen Arado: :)
Alfred Kelberry: oh, do you have a gallery in sl?
Zen Arado: yes look at my picks
Alfred Kelberry: ha! funny, didn't know you paint :)
Alfred Kelberry: thank you. i'll visit it.
Zen Arado: bring plenty of Lindens with you :)
Alfred Kelberry: hehe
Zen Arado: only kidding :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: I don't sell much in SL - it is just for fun really
Zen Arado: I sell in RL but abstracts are harder to sell than traditinal paintings
Alfred Kelberry: yes... i think you can't make a fortune in sl, unless you're in real estate :)
Zen Arado: maybe selling animations?
Zen Arado: I paid $L 7000 for a cat !
Alfred Kelberry: oh my!
Zen Arado: but she was worth it :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: it's often painter's name what is being sold
Zen Arado: ah yes - you have to have a reputation
Alfred Kelberry: maybe you should do something crazy to establish an art persona? :)
Zen Arado: yeah maybe
Zen Arado: but I don't need or want a lot of money
Alfred Kelberry: like that russian guy who played a dog naked on the street :)
Alfred Kelberry: that's a dropping for you :)
Zen Arado: hmmmm...maybe if I was younger and had a family to raise...
Alfred Kelberry: or maybe completly theopposite? :)
Zen Arado: but I jsut paint for enjoyment
Zen Arado: it's a kind of exploration for me
Alfred Kelberry: yes, joy is very important in what we do
Alfred Kelberry: people can sense it in a product
Alfred Kelberry: exploration - i like that
Alfred Kelberry: it's what our live is
Alfred Kelberry: some decide to stay put though
Zen Arado: yes - I admit I sold out to a job that was secure and had a good pension
Zen Arado: but now \i am retired I can do what I want
Zen Arado: anyway - I have to go
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Zen Arado: thanks for discussion
Alfred Kelberry: ok, zen. it was nice talking to you.
Alfred Kelberry: thank you for the company
Zen Arado: you too :)
Alfred Kelberry: bye
Zen Arado: bye