2011.02.25 07:00 - Title goes here

The Guardian for this meeting was Lucinda Lavender. The comments are by Lucinda Lavender.

Pema Pera: Oh, I will, Druth :-)
Pema Pera: u 2 !
Eliza Madrigal: so struck this morning by a view of great generosity... time and space in creative collaboration...
--BELL--
Darren Islar: hi Lucy and bye :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehhe
druth Vlodovic: please tell eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Luci and the sun overhead :)
Darren Islar: :) they say that's life :)
Lucinda Lavender: maybe I need to remove the sun
Eliza Madrigal: mmm... well considering love for my children... how little I would withold from them...
Eliza Madrigal: how much moreso does nature seem generous
Darren Islar: (maybe so Lucy a lot of particles)
Lucinda Lavender: yes...
Eliza Madrigal actually feels warmer
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Darren Islar: :)
Lucinda Lavender: Luci ponders...how to remove the lovely sun:)
druth Vlodovic: how old are your kids?
Darren Islar: from the looks of it you're wearing it
Eliza Madrigal: 18,15, and 12 Druth
Darren Islar: so you can take it off
Eliza Madrigal: Do you have children... think I read that you do?
Lucinda Lavender: right so I will look for what I am wearing:)
Darren Islar: 18 already, wow
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: what a blip of time
druth Vlodovic: 10, 12 and 16 :)
Darren Islar: yes....
Eliza Madrigal: Ah! :D
Eliza Madrigal: it used to bother me when I'd feel very overwhelmed and someon would say "Oh it goes by so fast"
Darren Islar: but obviously Lucy, if you want to wear the sun it sure will get you out of balance :)
druth Vlodovic: only in retrospect :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes! :))
Eliza Madrigal: in the wider perspective it is just a wave of time
druth Vlodovic: that's why in a couple years you get to start bothering them to have kids you get to play with and not raise
Eliza Madrigal: but waves can feel big when you're in them :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Druth... not too soon hopefully :)
Darren Islar: ah sure, but we don't live in that wider perspective (yet), at least not me :)
druth Vlodovic: "seeing the forest for the trees"
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Darren Islar smiles at Lucy
Eliza Madrigal: :) lost the sun but also your hair
Lucinda Lavender: well I have put away the sun for the moment:)
Eliza Madrigal: amazing what we can do in SL ;-)
Lucinda Lavender: just working on getting my hair back:)
Darren Islar: yes, and put your hair in place for it :)
Eliza Madrigal: fair trade
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Lucinda Lavender: will put it away first
Lucinda Lavender: I see you were talking about children:)
Darren Islar: :) nothing wrong with being bald
Lucinda Lavender: smiling:)
Lucinda Lavender: currrently 26 degrees here:)
Eliza Madrigal: yes... considering the natural generosity a parent feels for their children, and how much 'moreso' nature itself must be generous...
Lucinda Lavender: nature genersous...?
Eliza Madrigal: tapping into that sort of motivation which does the 'work' many 'tasks' associated, itself... in a sense perhaps
Darren Islar: well in nature everything is bigger, thinking of the earthquake in New Zeeland
Eliza Madrigal: LOTS of work and chores associated with the Work of Love of nurturing children
Darren Islar: as we Dutch say, the sea gives and takes
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods
Lucinda Lavender: many tasks ...and am thinking about how nature provides gravity so that we do not float around here:)
Eliza Madrigal: yes... and a tiny bit of gravity goes a long way!
Lucinda Lavender: is the physical generosity part of what you were speaking of?
Eliza Madrigal: hm... I was considering 'view' really
Eliza Madrigal: the space we bring to things
Darren Islar: maybe that depends on who you ask :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have some 'impossible' situations right now for instance
Lucinda Lavender: ah...
Eliza Madrigal: if I were to focus in on them too much... i would feel closed in...
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: trapped in the wave
Darren Islar nods
Eliza Madrigal: but I 'know' there is a wider perspective... which allows a sort of breathing room to be able to see more choices
Eliza Madrigal: not to be taken under
Darren Islar: right....
druth Vlodovic: we create focus, things to look at, in hopes of achieving control, but it isn't always the best strategy
Lucinda Lavender: just had a session at yoga in which the teacher had us focus within to find what is fine...seemed so helpful for me personally
Eliza Madrigal: yes!.@ Druth
Eliza Madrigal: like when my kids are really upset over something that's gone wrong... it is so easy for me to see that it isn't the end of the world, that they have these large lives, etc.
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Alf
Darren Islar: yes, control (fear) is bad adviser
Alfred Kelberry: landed on eliza this time :)
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Lucinda Lavender: not a fine thing...just perhaps a presence
Darren Islar: hey afred..... eh boxy alfred :)
Eliza Madrigal considering 'finding what is fine'... a fine line... an edge...
Eliza Madrigal: that might be opened up
Alfred Kelberry: what's the topic?
Lucinda Lavender: a fine sun
Lucinda Lavender: glowing there
Alfred Kelberry: huh?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lucinda Lavender: hi Boxy:)
druth Vlodovic: :)
Alfred Kelberry: dream luci :)
Lucinda Lavender: just imaging a sense of fineness within
Alfred Kelberry: what's fineness?
Eliza Madrigal: edges of awareness Alf... waves and ocean....
Lucinda Lavender: I know about the ups and downs...with children..
Darren Islar: it seems you need to make the space wider as also closing in at the same time ..... , being wave and ocean
Eliza Madrigal: finding the lines fine
druth Vlodovic: the edges are imaginary, we use them to make tools of what is
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods Luci... think you are the closest to an expert here, working with many kids every day :))
druth Vlodovic: this is not a bad thing, of course
Lucinda Lavender: if one has to create boundaries percieved as painful...
Darren Islar: nods at Druth
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Alfred Kelberry: *mumbles* fineness? hmm... edges?... well...
Eliza Madrigal: deciding what to draw with a pencil rather than pen
Darren Islar: hard to explain boxy.... :)
Eliza Madrigal: and vice versa
Lucinda Lavender: my yoga teacher asked us to go within and find what is fine...
Alfred Kelberry: maybe you just try it a difficult way, leap :)
Darren Islar: and we talked about edges and fine lines in the Time session
Lucinda Lavender: my experience with my own children is where I have been learning of late
Darren Islar: trying boxy :)
Lucinda Lavender: boundaries are not my forte actually
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Alfred Kelberry: anything can be explained in simple terms if you pick the right words :)
druth Vlodovic: good, people raising children should not have too many boundries
Alfred Kelberry: "hard to explain" is sort of a shield
druth Vlodovic: fuzzy edges are better, and more demanding on the kids themselves
Lucinda Lavender: we are in a stage if looking back and viewing the past...how it is different from friends situations
Eliza Madrigal: yes I rather like that....
Darren Islar: some things are hard to explain in words, which is actually part of the discussion, put words and meaning in a wider perspective, mix that with children and you're close to the topic
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Darren Islar: *raising children0
Eliza Madrigal: when mine were very young, I thought my job was to create a safe world for them... to have lots of clear strong walls
Alfred Kelberry: that sounds like a new age fog, leap :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Alfred Kelberry: yaku-san :)
Lucinda Lavender: hi Yaku:)
Eliza Madrigal: and I worked very hard to paint that picture
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :)
Darren Islar: well.........:)
Eliza Madrigal: the problem is, I closed myself out of it...
Darren Islar: hi yaku
Eliza Madrigal: I was 'do-er'
Eliza Madrigal: and they would rather have flawed mom, as it turns out...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: to 'be' there 'with' them
Eliza Madrigal: in the play
Darren Islar: ah.....
Lucinda Lavender: does the flawed mom seem less present and expressive?
Darren Islar: that sounds painful.....
Eliza Madrigal: which doesn't mean I let the walls fall entirely... never 'finished'
Eliza Madrigal: it was painful to accept but liberating too
Darren Islar: (three hairy and three bald people now :))
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Alfred Kelberry: flawed mom is someone who doesn't spend time with her children?
Darren Islar nods at Eliza, yes
Eliza Madrigal: more present, Luci...
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Eliza Madrigal: flawed mom is more 'with' them than the illusion of 'perfect' mom who had everything covered 'don't worry' :) shakier ground is more honest perhaps, more breathing room/space there
druth Vlodovic: hard to be betrayed by somone you know as a flawed human being
Alfred Kelberry: perfection is certainlly an illusion :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Lucinda Lavender: telling what feels true can be more vulnerable
druth Vlodovic: I remember making a conscious decision not to let the kids follow their natural inclination to ascribe high virtue to me, very painful to do
Eliza Madrigal: early on?
druth Vlodovic: very early
druth Vlodovic: I remembered feeling betrayed when I found out my parents were not perfect, even though I had already known for some time
Eliza Madrigal: remarkable to have that perspective at beginning I think....
Eliza Madrigal: when idealism and dream is so new
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I see
druth Vlodovic: lol, it comes of havings kids too early
Darren Islar: it's hard to notice the fine line between protection and being there, I'm not a parent, but I can imagine the trap of getting protective is big if it comes to children
Eliza Madrigal also had kids too early :)
Eliza Madrigal: definitely Darren
Eliza Madrigal: but a house that factors in flexibility for earthquakes doesn't guarantee safety but perhaps moreso than rigid one
Darren Islar: ah nice image
Alfred Kelberry: druth, i found it out early in life. when i was little i kept asking my grandma about space and planets and she couldn't answer all my questions :)
druth Vlodovic: there are levels of understanding, teenage angst is common partly because parents (everyone) wants to be a hero for a while
Eliza Madrigal: but what about the first person who had answers for you Alf? did you put them on a pedestal?
druth Vlodovic: lol, I sound so judgemental
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, not that i remember :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)) not at all Druth... the limits of our 'explaining' what's been seen
Lucinda Lavender: :))well we see those urges...and then we see how they are lies in a sense perhaps
druth Vlodovic: "in a sense, perhaps" of course in reality we are heroes
Eliza Madrigal: such a human tendency... to look for heroes 'outside' who can fix things :)
Lucinda Lavender: Luci has just be found lacking in not having taught certain things to her children:)
Darren Islar: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :) Luci... sometimes I'm struck by this as well... have days when I feel I've failed entirely with the most obvious things, sigh
Darren Islar: and the first to ask are children...... and we keep on asking when we are grown up :)
druth Vlodovic: but to develop awareness of current needs is a better virture than past perfection
Eliza Madrigal: yes yes yes
Eliza Madrigal: to 'be there'
Eliza Madrigal: in it:)
Darren Islar: you can regret things, but if you start to feel guilty, it is hard to get into the present
Eliza Madrigal: hard to organize the game from inside it but its basically what we have to do, be both places, wave and ocean
Lucinda Lavender: what I have seen is that from about day of birth on the children are hopping up to greater pools...and tehy are perhaps hoping we have been there ahead of themmmand anticipated the needs...
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes
Eliza Madrigal: but they have their own needs, own time
Darren Islar: while I can imagine most parents do the opposite......
Lucinda Lavender: brb getting text from work:)
Darren Islar: trying to keep them in the old pool....
Eliza Madrigal: very true
Eliza Madrigal: hard not to do, the pool we think we know
Lucinda Lavender: now can't find the phone:)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe Luci, quite a day you are having
Darren Islar: sometimes I think people get children far to early, better is to be 40 to get your first, which is not possible of course.....
druth Vlodovic: MY BABY!!!
Eliza Madrigal: a no hair day
Eliza Madrigal: :)) yes Druth 'my'
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Freud!
Darren Islar: hi Freud
Freud Jungsten: Heya
druth Vlodovic: hi jung
Eliza Madrigal: well I woke up with the dream already going on darren... many do...hehe
Freud Jungsten smiles
Darren Islar: yes......
Eliza Madrigal: story of our time 'inception' /me laughs
Lucinda Lavender: phew...too many pockets and you lose your phone!
druth Vlodovic: many people see the awareness coming and hide from it
Darren Islar: but when we grow older we seem to get a better view on it, by that time, the kids are almost grown up
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal smiles widely @ both comments :))
Darren Islar: (really need to go...........waves)
Freud Jungsten: ciao
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Darren :) waving
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye darren, also afk for a while
druth Vlodovic: bye
Lucinda Lavender: bye Darren:) nice to see you:)
druth Vlodovic: there, I've drawn you an apple
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Freud:)
Freud Jungsten: osiyo
Eliza Madrigal: I remember seeing a story in prep for the olympics, of Chinese officials trying to crack down on rudeness of peopole using buses... made me think of how I feel with the kids sometimes... "quick, get in line, someone's coming"
druth Vlodovic: "style over substance"
Freud Jungsten: But manners are different in different places.
Eliza Madrigal: yes :))
druth Vlodovic: the real reason we all eat at McDonald's
Lucinda Lavender: :))know what you mean there:)
Eliza Madrigal: but there is a feeling of exposure that shows up what's been missing
Freud Jungsten: What is rude somewhere is common else place.\\
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Freud Jungsten: We don't all eat a MDs thank you.
druth Vlodovic: ah, someone doesn't have moody kids
Freud Jungsten: Can't stand the place..... lol
Freud Jungsten: No kids at all.... and I like it that way...
druth Vlodovic: they can freak out and roll on the floor, and nobody cares much
Lucinda Lavender: :)))
Freud Jungsten: Another reason not to go.
Lucinda Lavender: love that idea druth!
Freud Jungsten: The kids, not the adults though Lucinda.... grins
druth Vlodovic: if they start eating french fries off the floor the only reaction you get is someone telling you of it
Lucinda Lavender: there are these moments where everything just needs to pop!
druth Vlodovic: oh, I'm sure the parent's could do it too
Freud Jungsten: A third reasons not to go.
Eliza Madrigal laughing...
druth Vlodovic: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: there is talk of having 'no kids' airplane flights... my first reaction was that on a long flight I'd love that...
Eliza Madrigal: second was 'oh no, every other flight will have only children'
Eliza Madrigal: then realized how flawed that thinking is...
druth Vlodovic: lol, following their parent's who are travelling on the other plane
Eliza Madrigal: more and more compartmentalization = more and more dysfunction
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Druth!!!
Lucinda Lavender: ha ha!
druth Vlodovic: yes, too much protection means no development of proper defences and attitudes
Eliza Madrigal: "the problem with the world is that we draw our family circle too small" Mother Teresa
Eliza Madrigal nods @ druth...
Eliza Madrigal: no iron sharpening iron, peer review
druth Vlodovic: which back to the protect vs teach problem of raising kids
druth Vlodovic: aand adults in a society
Eliza Madrigal: yes many children are far more well mannered than adults :)
Eliza Madrigal: or at least still have the aspiration
druth Vlodovic: compassion and caring are natural to humans
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Freud Jungsten: But so is competativeness.
druth Vlodovic: oh yes, and a desire for freedom, and edges :)
Eliza Madrigal: in a view that allows for both there seems much creativity
druth Vlodovic: much of childhood misbehaviour is an attempt to induce one's parents (and others) to provide edges
Eliza Madrigal nods... yes my own experience was definitely that
Eliza Madrigal: personally, not so much with my kids
druth Vlodovic: no?
Eliza Madrigal: well they haven't felt the need to push in the same ways, anyway
Lucinda Lavender: yes...so much to learn with children...
druth Vlodovic: I have three, one is big of defining limits, the other two less so
Lucinda Lavender: I have two ends of spectrum myself
druth Vlodovic: of course the limit definer is the troublemaker :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Lucinda Lavender: we try...and we extend our view as we go...
Eliza Madrigal: my three are profoundly different, what would be troublesome for one would not be so for another
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Lucinda Lavender: same here...requires different messages it seems
Eliza Madrigal notes to stop saying 'my' children... though does seem the lingo :)
Lucinda Lavender: :)))
Freud Jungsten: What is wrong with saying that?
Eliza Madrigal: well, to show that they are their 'own' in a sense... not that it is wrong
Lucinda Lavender: must go now ...see how no heat in the school actually feels:).. at 26 degrees:)
druth Vlodovic: you don't own your kids, they own you
--BELL--
Freud Jungsten: Ciao
druth Vlodovic: ikes, good luck luc
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Luci :)) thanks
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Alfred Kelberry: so, what did i miss?
Eliza Madrigal: Meep Meep ;P :p:P :p :P
Alfred Kelberry: :)
druth Vlodovic: the bell
Eliza Madrigal: all the fun, Alf
Eliza Madrigal: haha Druth :D
Alfred Kelberry: i had fun as well :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes.... the bell my cue to be going today
Eliza Madrigal: thanks everyone!
Alfred Kelberry: ding
Eliza Madrigal: helpful discussion for me
Freud Jungsten: Take care.
druth Vlodovic: ah, have fun eliza, and good luck
Eliza Madrigal: Namaste'
Freud Jungsten: Off also...
Alfred Kelberry: whoa
Alfred Kelberry: big gun
druth Vlodovic: ?? you want me to stop?
druth Vlodovic: ah
Alfred Kelberry: just showing off, sorry :)
druth Vlodovic: have fun alfred, yakuzza
druth Vlodovic: I was thinking "whoa" as in horses :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: ok, now it's yaku-san and me
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, i think pema should have been here for this session
Alfred Kelberry: friday 7 am
Alfred Kelberry: gotta go yaku
Alfred Kelberry: have fun :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye boxy