2011.02.16 07:00 - Group Dynamics & Levels of Immersion

The guardian for this session in which several of us talked and wrestled a bit over individual, group, and worldly matters, was Eliza Madrigal, who also posted comments.

We begin with simple banter... 

Archmage Atlantis: Hey Donkey, and to you also Kit
Kit Ciaco: Hi!
Kit Ciaco: I'll dismount here in a minute - just thoughts folks might enjoy a little morning ice cream cone!
Archmage Atlantis: Ok
Archmage Atlantis: not for me though
Kit Ciaco: no problem - mighty tasty, though!
Kit Ciaco: made from happy cows!
Archmage Atlantis: I understand
Archmage Atlantis: Yet even dark highland coffee flavored ice cream isn't for me
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: I can eat frozen yogurt
Kit Ciaco: Oh, that's the BEST!
Kit Ciaco: chocolate frozen yogurt!
Archmage Atlantis: I remember loving french vanilla
Archmage Atlantis: the body changes
Kit Ciaco: If I knew how to do menus I would put in several flavors to choose from. Being essentially ignorant of such matters I only have one cone - which is mostly vanilla with a little chocolate barely noticeable
Kit Ciaco: yes it does

Kit Ciaco: tastes, appetites - all change!

Eliza Madrigal: Good Morning Dear Friends
Kit Ciaco: I remember when I was four I loved pepper on everything
Kit Ciaco: When I turned 5 I changed over to salt
Kit Ciaco: now I eat neither!
Archmage Atlantis: There are many who come here with great skill Kit
Kit Ciaco: Hi, Eliza!
Kit Ciaco: indeed!
Archmage Atlantis: Elo,
Kit Ciaco: I myself am a bear of little brain.
Archmage Atlantis: Eliza, Eden
Kit Ciaco: I just tinker a bit
Eden Haiku: Good morning Arch, hello Kit. Good morning Eliza!

Kit had arrived on donkey, pulling a rather substantial cart, reminding me of the trip we planned during the weekend Guardian Session ...

Eliza Madrigal: Kit, you are ready for our trip I see
Kit Ciaco: Have ice cream, will travel!
Eliza Madrigal smiles.... what flavors do we have...
Kit Ciaco: still haven't figured how to carry passengers on my carts, though
Kit Ciaco: but I'm working it!
Eliza Madrigal: I like coffee with chocolate sprinkles
Kit Ciaco: sorrry - only vanilla with a little chocolate inside

Eden Haiku: Somehow, I ended up wearing riding boots with my feather dress this morning (a surprise from Phoenix viewer maybe?)

Archmage Atlantis: It isn't the object offered.....it is the love that creates the offer

Eliza Madrigal: Looks cute Eden :)
Eliza Madrigal: Indeed Arch
Eden Haiku: Maybe getting ready for a rodeo? hehe
Kit Ciaco: true, Arch
Kit Ciaco: LOL!
Kit Ciaco: I still have saddle soreness!
Eden Haiku: :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Kit, yummy.... in SL this ice cream cone can represent anything I need it to
Eliza Madrigal: like, breakfast
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Kit Ciaco: exactly!
Kit Ciaco: We have an ice cream truck the runs past the dojo on Atoll
Kit Ciaco: I was shocked to discover that many residents had never seen the ice cream truck - it is so much fun!
Kit Ciaco: so I made this little cart....
Eden Haiku: You look very elegant Arch!
Eliza Madrigal: cute... the world is full of things we are missing
Kit Ciaco: agreed!
Eden Haiku: Oh yummy, thank you for the ice cream cone Kit. Delicious vanilla yummmm
Kit Ciaco: hey!

Eliza Madrigal: How are you all doing today?

Kit Ciaco: not just vanilla - FRENCH vanilla!
Kit Ciaco: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Kit Ciaco: I'm good, but a little tired
Eden Haiku: A horse is about to materialize...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :D
Kit Ciaco: I sure hope so, Eden
Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning everyone
Eden Haiku: Accordring to Arch's stance
Kit Ciaco: hi, Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: ah, perceptive Eden
Eliza Madrigal: you can read signs
Yakuzza Lethecus: congratulations to ur guardianship kit
Kit Ciaco: oh, thanks!!!
Kit Ciaco: Did you see the wonderful video Eliza sent with the notice?
Kit Ciaco: hysterical!
Eden Haiku: Something happened to your beautiful shock of black hair Eliza?
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, a black draft horse
Kit Ciaco: I actually made a little jester outfit just in case I need it....
Archmage Atlantis: or horse
Archmage Atlantis: one of those
Eden Haiku: Oh the court jester yes, it was hilarious!
Eliza Madrigal: Oh! That's wonderful kit :))
Kit Ciaco: who makes your draft, Arch?
Kit Ciaco: hehehehe
Kit Ciaco: well, it's pretty rough looking - I am no virtual seamstress!
Eliza Madrigal: my hair is having issues lately Eden...
Eliza Madrigal: people send me things and I try them... then I end up with all sorts of strange combinations

Eden Haiku: A SL bad hair day :(
Kit Ciaco: Eliza, it looks like your hair is on holiday!
Eliza Madrigal: does it? I see myself with long black hair today
Kit Ciaco: Bald works for you!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bold isn´t that bad :)
Kit Ciaco: perspective, again....
Archmage Atlantis: Being willing to work.....that is my snow leopard, my white tiger, my badger and my clydesdale

Eden, wonderful friend that she is, dons a cute cowboy hat which removes her hair, BUT she still looks very lovely. :) 

Eden Haiku: Well, I might as well wear my cowboy hat to join you Eliza (it makes my hair dissapear)
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Yaku
Kit Ciaco: I went bald all weekend at the rodeo
Kit Ciaco: to keep lag down
Kit Ciaco: not that it helped my time
Archmage Atlantis: being willing to believe is my coyote
Kit Ciaco: nice hat!
Eliza Madrigal: attractive Eden!
Eliza Madrigal: ty Eden :)

Eliza Madrigal: ah, now I see myself as others see me
Kit Ciaco: LOVELY, Eliza!
Kit Ciaco: a rare gift, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: if only for a moment...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eden Haiku: hello Yaku:)))

Eliza Madrigal: Arch, thanks again for the SL retreat email
Eliza Madrigal: to the group
Eden Haiku: This French vanilla was just heavenly. Wiping my mouth...
Eliza Madrigal: nice to have that conversation
Kit Ciaco: oh, yaku - that is adorable!
Kit Ciaco: :)
Eliza Madrigal: awww
Kit Ciaco: you should see the "horse" it rode in on!
Archmage Atlantis: This group of entities will know and/or learn what to do with disclosure
Eden Haiku: The pink cowboy hat fits you perfectly Yaku....Did you adjust it?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i did :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Arch, you mean the lines of vulnerability and sharing in retreat and sessions, etc ? Sometimes those are quite tricky, but I agree that the group is generally quite sensitive :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Korel :))
Kit Ciaco: hey, Korel
Korel Laloix: Heya
Kit Ciaco: I agree, Eliza - groups can be very sensitve and tricky
Kit Ciaco: alot of potential
Eliza Madrigal: yes, they are full of people, also sensitive and tricky, hehehe
Korel Laloix: Way more than normal lag today.
Kit Ciaco: indeed, E!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey korel

Eliza Madrigal: lots of potential in blindspots, which people are full of too....
Kit Ciaco: group dynamics are among the most fascinating things in the whole world!
Eliza Madrigal: I so agree
Kit Ciaco: exactly!
Archmage Atlantis: There is a song that keeps coming in
Kit Ciaco: like a square dance without a caller
Eden Haiku: Fascinated by group dynamics.
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Korel Laloix: I tend to be more interested in chocolate....
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Kit Ciaco: I can offer you vanilla with a touch of chocolate
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eden Haiku: Oh, hello Korel :)
Korel Laloix: lol
Archmage Atlantis: There is a chord that pleased the lord
Eliza Madrigal: but its secret
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Archmage Atlantis: is the first line
Kit Ciaco: that's an interesting though, Arch
Korel Laloix: Nice.... smiles
Eliza Madrigal: one of the most beautiful songs ever, Arch
Kit Ciaco: the notion of groups as being "chords" sometimes "discordant

Sunshine Vayandar: greetings ;)
Kit Ciaco: Hi, Sun!
Eden Haiku: hello beautiful Sunshine!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sunshine :)
Korel Laloix: osiyo
Sunshine Vayandar: hi beautiful ppl
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sun
Eliza Madrigal: we are beginning to discuss group dynamics and resonating chords I think :)
Archmage Atlantis: osiyo, small sister
Sunshine Vayandar: osiyooo
Sunshine Vayandar: and I am rezzing
Korel Laloix: I am not small.... I am fun sized.... grins
Sunshine Vayandar: afraid to sit on someone again
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Archmage Atlantis: *g*
Eliza Madrigal: that's how we in SL get to know one another, Sun :)
Kit Ciaco: LOL!
Eliza Madrigal: our foibles unite us, giggles

: A friend used that word in an email recently and its been playing with me ever since... 

Kit Ciaco: Yes, they surely do!
Eden Haiku: likes "resonating chords"...
Korel Laloix: Looking up the word foible
Eliza Madrigal: Lovely dress too, Sun
Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: hi zen ;)
Eden Haiku: Hello Zen!
Sunshine Vayandar: wow ;)
Zen Arado: HI All:)
Eliza Madrigal: H Zen!
Eden Haiku: WOOOouuuuuu
Eliza Madrigal: ooooooooooothat was pretty
Eliza Madrigal: ribbons
Eliza Madrigal: :D
Korel Laloix: That was laggy.
Eden Haiku: That was pretty, what was it?
Archmage Atlantis: pretty is as pretty does
Eliza Madrigal: pretty was for many generations told not to do
Korel Laloix: I do agree that chrouds can develope chords.... or maybe harmonics.
Korel Laloix: Oftern it is stupidity though.
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, those like me know those generations Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: say more Korel?
Eden Haiku: I always prefer to look at the bright side of things. Even crowds.;)

Korel Laloix: I just find that when you get a bunch of people together. the average inteligence seems to go down...
Korel Laloix: Or maybe that is just my expereince.

Eden Haiku: The crowd in Egypt's Liberation Square was pretty amazing.
Archmage Atlantis: Come into the circle, Korel
Zen Arado: the level of conversation you mean?
Eliza Madrigal: some of that has to do with 'how' and 'what' one is measuring...
Korel Laloix: It took me two mins to sit down, so I am not going to try and move.... llol
Archmage Atlantis: kkk
Korel Laloix: No measurements taken really... just and observation.
Archmage Atlantis: stilll hearing owls
Zen Arado: smaller group size = deeper conversations?
Korel Laloix: Owls?

Eden Haiku: What happens with crowds is they act younger and younger if there are many people. Like gpoing back to earlier stages on everybody's timeline.

Kit Ciaco: yes, Zen
Zen Arado: gets adolescent sometimes
Sunshine Vayandar: they get younger?
Eden Haiku: Yes, or even childish :)
Eliza Madrigal: interesting Eden, yes there does seem a bit of that... trying to connect in a broad way sacrifices some seriousness? !
Eliza Madrigal: which is a needed sacrifice at times I think :)

--BELL--

Sunshine Vayandar: for example when last time we celebrated Eliza?

Kit Ciaco: I wonder if shadows come out to play when people get in larger groups - possibly due to stress, which can prompt archetypal shadows to emerge....
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci :))
Kit Ciaco: hey, Luci
Sunshine Vayandar: hi Lucinda ;)
Archmage Atlantis: Lucinda, there are 2 here that do not understand the circle provides for all....pls help me with this
Eliza Madrigal: interesting idea, too, Kit
Eliza Madrigal: recently someone made a really interesting remark in a session, that the greatest compliment one could give is to just share company
Zen Arado: or we don't want to reveal as much to a bigger group so it gets more shallow?
Eden Haiku: Or maybe the shadows of super-egos are liberated and people are acting more freely? Like children playing?
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Eliza, Sun Kit Arch, Korel Yaky
Zen Arado: Hi Luci
Lucinda Lavender: Eden, Zen,
Eden Haiku: Hello Lucinda;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey luci
Eliza Madrigal: yes agree...
Eliza Madrigal: I think... there are no formulas
Eliza Madrigal: but ways to develop sensitivity to one another
Eden Haiku: No magic formula Eliza :( ?
Eliza Madrigal: and refine respect for our environments
Korel Laloix: Or perhapse they act like SL and by increasing anonymity, they liberate?
Eliza Madrigal: :) no eduring formula
Eliza Madrigal: only recipes in the moment

Eden Haiku: Was talking about crowds in RL as well...
Eden Haiku: Like in a rock concert or a sports event...
Kit Ciaco: yes
Eden Haiku: people get very emotional
Eliza Madrigal: one thing about Egypt one could hear, was love of place
Sunshine Vayandar: reminds me of the worldcup in SA
Eliza Madrigal: a sense of pride, which doesn't have to be all about egos
Eden Haiku: They even organized kindergarden on Tahrir Square!
Sunshine Vayandar: really Eden
Eliza Madrigal: wow, didn't know that
Zen Arado: mob rule
Eden Haiku: It was on my Twitterline this morning ...Let me find the link...
Sunshine Vayandar: brb
Eden Haiku: They also had media centers, security, medical clinics. All free
Archmage Atlantis: I shall be forced to twitter
Archmage Atlantis: OMG
Eliza Madrigal: did see the medical clinics...
Eliza Madrigal: haha Arch :)
Sunshine Vayandar: back
Eliza Madrigal: wb Sun
Sunshine Vayandar: ty ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Sun, what were you saying about the World Cup?
Sunshine Vayandar: reminded me of the match I went to
Sunshine Vayandar: I felt sooooo South African
Sunshine Vayandar: and very emotional - a stadium full of rainbow people of SA
Eden Haiku: Wonderful!
Sunshine Vayandar: ;) and vuvuzelas hehe
Eliza Madrigal: that's lovely! So in that context everyone could celebrate together...not exactly shedding individuality, but hm... something 'more'
Zen Arado: you supported SA or HUngary Sun?
Sunshine Vayandar: hungary was not there

Sunshine Vayandar: I support everybody lol
Zen Arado: ah ok
Eliza Madrigal: :) Sun
Zen Arado: neither was N.Ireland :)
Eliza Madrigal: we don't have to take sides :) not even inside/outside
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Zen Arado: ha in football you have to
Sunshine Vayandar: hehe
Zen Arado: part of the fun
Eliza Madrigal: why... why not celebrate wonderful moments on both sides
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: no - my team must win :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Archmage Atlantis: So female
Zen Arado: my team is always the best
Eden Haiku: Here is a link to the letter about kindergarden in Egypt's liberation square: http://bit.ly/hOK1fC
Zen Arado: even if they're not
Archmage Atlantis: Can males do that also?
Sunshine Vayandar: ty Eden
Eliza Madrigal: it is always hard for me to have favorite things, but I can have favorite 'moments' of things (books, movies, etc)
Eliza Madrigal clicks
Archmage Atlantis: It's how their Mums raise them, me thinks
Zen Arado wonders why he is so partisan
Eliza Madrigal: ah, wow what a wonderful picture Eden, thank you

Sunshine Vayandar: I wonder how it felt to be in that crowd
Eden Haiku: Not so good on violent days but the alst week seemed to have been non-violent.

Sunshine Vayandar: here is a a few seconds of the vuvuzela crowd : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9M2pVhwb-k

Eden Haiku: Saw an interview of a young mother who siad she was going there with the kids with no fear at all.

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I wondered to myself, whether I would have been out there... or whether I would have been more concerned to take care of the kids

Korel Laloix: Sad part about it, after all that is done.... the women there will still not have a real choice in who they marry or if they want to have children or the like.
Archmage Atlantis: Some amoung us know what a child sees and feels as violence
Lucinda Lavender: thanks for the link Eden...
Archmage Atlantis: And what that child did with it
Eliza Madrigal: well actually women's groups are determined to make some strides here... but mostly that will reflect family cultures I imagine, rather than govt

Eliza Madrigal: the ability to question openly is a big step for all realms

Lucinda Lavender: Sorry bell:)
Korel Laloix: True... but I am still so thankfull to live where and how I do.
Eliza Madrigal speaks for bell "NO worries Luci, I know you are generally attentive and I really appreciate that"
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: indeed Korel
Archmage Atlantis: A big step can only be taken if the entities are ready
Lucinda Lavender: I was reading had my sound turned down...:)

Eden Haiku: In my wildest dreams, I was imagining women in burqua freeing themselves from their veils on Liberation Square. But I can understand they cannot do that. Didn't dare share that on Twitter. It could have been offensive . But, still... that would have been spectacular. Like Samantha when she takes off the wig at a speaking event for breast cancer in "Sex in the City"...
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm yes I think the thing is the desire to see it possible... not that everyone 'should'
Eliza Madrigal: a world where there is room
Eden Haiku: Yes.
Zen Arado wonders if there was a leader of the movement to oust Mubarak
Zen Arado: or if it was spontaneous
Zen Arado: or both
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I find it hard to talk about this - because I feel - unless I really have experienced the situation - I don't know if I can have an opinion about the freedom of others far away ...
Eliza Madrigal nods
Archmage Atlantis: I believe there was, Zen

Eliza Madrigal: in Inception, the influences of one member of the group, got into, the experiences of everyone else... think the world is more like this than we realize

Eden Haiku: I must admit I have a strong prejudice against hijab, niqab and burqas. Difficult to read signs of freedom in them ;(

Korel Laloix: I just pray they get something better than they had.
Zen Arado: the people have to be prepared and ready or no leader could do anything tho

Eliza Madrigal: so when we take responsibility for our own place... it matters everywhere
Sunshine Vayandar: yes I think so Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: in some sense it is 'all' we can do
Archmage Atlantis: One brave soul, at the moment, can induce change
Zen Arado: it's affecting Tunisia I believe

Eden Haiku: Yes, they have many issues to solve after the revolution, that's for sure.

Zen Arado: sometimes removing a strong dictator can have unfortunate consequences too

Sunshine Vayandar: yes Zen
Archmage Atlantis: It is when that brave soul does not understand that she/he also
Eden Haiku: Yes, but not a reason to keep the dictator isn't?
Archmage Atlantis: creates

Eliza Madrigal: there is the story of the runner who breaks the record on a way no one thought possble... from then on, many can do it
Zen Arado: he was keeping peace with other middle east countries
Zen Arado: oh no
Zen Arado: but it's not always straightforward
Eliza Madrigal: it was thought to be an external boundary... think that's the heart

Eden Haiku: Yes Eliza. That is so inspiring. And on many levels. Same on our individual lives too.

Korel Laloix: The world seemed pretty happy to keep Sadam Husain in Iraq.

Sunshine Vayandar: may be I am little traumatized about things people went through in SA
Sunshine Vayandar: so much violance still

Eden Haiku: Don't we have inner dictators and petty tyrants to oust as well? I know I do :)

Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: all the world is in a kind of vulnerable place
Eliza Madrigal: but we always have been
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Eden
Zen Arado: it's all such a complicated mess
Eliza Madrigal: 'may confusion dawn as wisdom'
Zen Arado: politicians oversimplify issues

Eden Haiku: I prefer to read these revolutions as sign of human progress and awakening.
Zen Arado: but actions have to be taken too
Archmage Atlantis: Hey, we had George Bush, JR......we are failing as an example...yet we know

Eden Haiku: Obama as a world leader!
Archmage Atlantis: The walk of the dreamtime
Eliza Madrigal: its never about one person... but as a fortune cookie reminded me a few days ago "to the world you may be one person but to one person you are the world" :)
Zen Arado: more seem less keen on having dictators
Lucinda Lavender: nice Eliza...
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)

Eden Haiku: I would exchange him anytime with Canada's prime minister who is soooo much to the right on all levels.
Zen Arado: yes nice Eliza
Kit Ciaco: sorry - I have to run - thanks for your time!
Zen Arado: bye Kit
Sunshine Vayandar: take care Kit ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Kit :) Have fun
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye kit
Eden Haiku: Bye Kit.
Archmage Atlantis: Namaste, Kit
Lucinda Lavender: Must go too...nace to see you all!
Eliza Madrigal: the tough thing for those of us who think we have democracy, is that democracy will have different details than what we're used to
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Luci :)
Zen Arado: I have to go too

Eden Haiku: I might as well go, I'M geeting a bit hothead hehe
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee Luci
Eliza Madrigal: we're so serious today
Eliza Madrigal: I think I brought that in
Eliza Madrigal: :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: sorry
Eden Haiku: Thank you Eliza, have a nice day everyone :)))
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Eden, Hugs and Thanks
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Sunshine Vayandar: take care Eden ;))
Lucinda Lavender: bye:)
Zen Arado: bye
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye all leavers
Eliza Madrigal thinks these kinds of sessions are important too
Sunshine Vayandar: all sessions are important ;)
Eliza Madrigal: yes :D

Eliza Madrigal: this morning I was trying to figure out where 'emotions' fit into group practice
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just wonder how to bring regular thought patterns into practice
Yakuzza Lethecus: usually when i try to mediatate or concentrate i try not to associate everything that sticks to the mind
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and what IS practice :) It has to include everything, but not be carried away by anything
Archmage Atlantis: Um
Archmage Atlantis: it is all
Archmage Atlantis: there is not answere
Eliza Madrigal: sky has no preferences
Archmage Atlantis: only practice]
Eliza Madrigal: but a lot of weather
Eliza Madrigal: yaku stuck?

Archmage Atlantis: gives one much to practice
Eliza Madrigal: :)) yes

Sunshine Vayandar: on my screen he is floating and typing
Eliza Madrigal: yes me too... sometims people type for a long time when stuck
Sunshine Vayandar: or is it a type of yoga?
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Eliza Madrigal: Yaku Yoga
Eliza Madrigal: good session title
Sunshine Vayandar: yes ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: it seems typing can make one high
Eliza Madrigal: I find that often

Yakuzza Lethecus: well uncertainty about development and communication and learning how does social exposure shift us and myself of course, how to change and how to like ourselves and when we don´t like ourselves and we notice that other ppl don´t like ourselves either for what we are how to settle such a conflict
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s funny i use computers for ages for example, i attended a kinda computerscience highschool and failed pretty much before i did my job training
Eliza Madrigal: agree Yaku... conflict is tough ground
Eliza Madrigal: but not impossible
Yakuzza Lethecus: to my father i am still not using all my skills but he can´t help me when i have problems as well
Eliza Madrigal: ah, well easy to see 'others' and think we know what they should be doing
Sunshine Vayandar: yes hmm
Eliza Madrigal: out of care and concern much of the time, too
Yakuzza Lethecus: to me i try and my own view in try to explore conditions in which i have the feeling that i ,,change somehow"
Yakuzza Lethecus: how to step out of the role we have for ourselves and maybe even those that we have for others

Eliza Madrigal: conditions... you mean the environments?
Eliza Madrigal: the petri dishes
Yakuzza Lethecus: peergroup
Yakuzza Lethecus: environment
Yakuzza Lethecus: even a virtual environment can be a change depending on the level of immersiion
Eliza Madrigal nods

Yakuzza Lethecus: well, before pab i never flew in my whole life and i am 28
Yakuzza Lethecus: now i even have a gf in a different nation and flew twice only for that so far
Eliza Madrigal: your boundaries were questioned :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: there's where that blindspot potential seems to come in

Sunshine Vayandar: travelling helps to shake off or discover some roles
Korel Laloix: SL has had a huge impact on my life..... but I have been in SL for over a fifth of my life.
Korel Laloix: I tink if you don't let it effect you, you are sorta missing out.
Eliza Madrigal: that's quite a statement
Sunshine Vayandar: you mean SL?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: agree... it is still a choice
Eliza Madrigal: to put one's presuppositions on the line, though many of us try to make cozy nests of stability in SL, too
Yakuzza Lethecus: there are different dilemma´s for me very often, even the issue that my habits in being kind of media addicted and what i think ,,might" give more stability in thought are a bit different
Yakuzza Lethecus: even the aspect that i am very much interested into philosophy but can´t even read a book longer then 20 pages in a row and only hear lectures and can´t fully write any kind of essay about anything
Eliza Madrigal: so is it the medium or the person? do some come with more 'undefined' space than others?
Eliza Madrigal: Yaku, do you try to write about it?
Yakuzza Lethecus: only right now :P

Yakuzza Lethecus: i tried writing associations and keywords sometims
Eliza Madrigal: you don't have to write an essay... maybe a few lines then a few lines come from that...
Eliza Madrigal: letting writing begin to happen... you have taken in so much...
Korel Laloix: I do a lot of mind mapping
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah i even experimented a little with mindmapping software
Korel Laloix: Escpecially if I am at the limits of my language.
Eliza Madrigal: I've not done that too much....hellpful?
Korel Laloix: For me great help
Sunshine Vayandar: what software u use?
Korel Laloix: Both in learning.
Korel Laloix: And remembering how I thought about something before.
Eliza Madrigal: making room seems crucial, ie processing, digesting, integration. Most of us have enough 'information' to work with
Sunshine Vayandar: yes Eliza
Sunshine Vayandar: too much information even
Eliza Madrigal: so I feel it isn't about 'learning' as in gathering per se
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Yakuzza Lethecus: i had freemind and mindmanager for a while
Sunshine Vayandar: kk
Sunshine Vayandar: looking ;)

Eliza Madrigal: more, working with one another... for me a big part of why these sessions can be brilliant
Sunshine Vayandar: oe the retreat
Eliza Madrigal: ah, Zen was using something similar too
Sunshine Vayandar: *or
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: retreats are a good format to experiment with...
Eliza Madrigal: there can be many kinds
Yakuzza Lethecus: for me it´s usually that i have the same subjects over and over, basicly ,,stuckness" and unappreaciation about what i am or have become i guess
Yakuzza Lethecus: mainly on a skill basis
Eliza Madrigal: that's what meditation is for, Ya... to be able to step back and see a bigger picture
Eliza Madrigal: then one sees this loop here and that loop there, but none of them are something one is stuck in .. then the loops begin to unravel like ribbons....
Yakuzza Lethecus: aspects like ,,betriebsblindheit" are particularly interesting
Eliza Madrigal: what is that?
Yakuzza Lethecus: unreflected doing through habituation
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)
Eliza Madrigal: wow I really have no idea what to name this session...
Yakuzza Lethecus: just doing but not knowing why and how it ever came to do that
Eliza Madrigal: hidden presuppositions

Sunshine Vayandar: when I arrived in SA I got unstuck
Eliza Madrigal: the *place* freed you?
Sunshine Vayandar: as soon as I arrived - I started doing everything that I never thought I'd do
Sunshine Vayandar: painted the walls with african patterns on the farm
Sunshine Vayandar: started gardening
Sunshine Vayandar: etc
Eliza Madrigal: wow,
Eliza Madrigal: that's lovely
Sunshine Vayandar: and was afraid of snakes
Sunshine Vayandar: that was new lol
Sunshine Vayandar: and it never stopped
Eliza Madrigal: :) well maybe it had never come up before

Eliza Madrigal: was there a moment of 'desperation' before you arrived?
Sunshine Vayandar: I can't get enough
Sunshine Vayandar: I felt like - nothing is happening
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Sunshine Vayandar: one day was just like the other
Eliza Madrigal: quiet desperation
Sunshine Vayandar: you know like - when you finish university

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: ah, wish I did know that feeling , but have known the 'one day, one thing, is just like the other' feeling
Eliza Madrigal: missing the liveliness
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm I never actually finished university hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Sunshine Vayandar: when u are "in a role" you are told what to do
Sunshine Vayandar: when that role ends - suddenly one is not sure what is next
Yakuzza Lethecus: well i am not sure if roles ever end
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think we are always in a role to ourselves and to others
Sunshine Vayandar: I meant - being a student at university
Yakuzza Lethecus: ah right :)
Eliza Madrigal: there are 'gaps'
Eliza Madrigal: in roles
Sunshine Vayandar: yes

Eliza Madrigal: in japan I had an experience of the 'place' dreaming me... had never felt that way before. I came to realize how much context matters... we spend time trying to change habits but we often need to just listen
Eliza Madrigal: rest, let go
Eliza Madrigal: it just sounds too simple
Eliza Madrigal: too easy
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm yes
Eliza Madrigal: give life its due :)
Sunshine Vayandar: lI hear so often - just let it go
Eliza Madrigal nods
Sunshine Vayandar: but one is not sure how
Sunshine Vayandar: what do I let go
Eliza Madrigal: yes, what did 'you' let go, or what can 'you' let go
Eliza Madrigal: 'you' can't...
Sunshine Vayandar: I think I will only know when I do
Eliza Madrigal: it sounds as though when you moved, you allowed letting go
Sunshine Vayandar: trying hard - makes it more difficult to let go
Sunshine Vayandar: no it was not me
Sunshine Vayandar: it just happened
Eliza Madrigal: In Ways of Knowing workshop Stim said 'you can't do it, but what you are in a larger sense can'
Sunshine Vayandar: I shifted into a new rhythm
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Eliza Madrigal: so what is our part then?
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Sunshine Vayandar: I think one can get used to being the change
Sunshine Vayandar: consciously
Eliza Madrigal: like mirroring a parent?
Sunshine Vayandar: hmm
Sunshine Vayandar: not sure what you mean
Sunshine Vayandar: i hope I make sense hehe
Eliza Madrigal: yes I'm not quite sure either...
Eliza Madrigal: :) I think something like...
Sunshine Vayandar: what I mean is one can consciously choose to do new things
Eliza Madrigal: "Being Seeing"
Eliza Madrigal: agree Sun, yes...
Eliza Madrigal: often that comes from others' examples?
Sunshine Vayandar: in my experience - doing new things - train us to me wiser
Sunshine Vayandar: yes
Sunshine Vayandar: like Gandhi
Sunshine Vayandar: or Madiba
Sunshine Vayandar: or Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: others who have broken the record...
Sunshine Vayandar: or Yaku ;p
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Yaku yoga

Sunshine Vayandar: yes like Yaku decided to play music
Sunshine Vayandar: most people are too shy
Eliza Madrigal nods
Sunshine Vayandar: yes yaku yoga ;p

The suggested wine list of TED talks to go with this session is as follows:

http://www.ted.com/talks/jacqueline_novogratz_inspiring_a_life_of_immersion.html

http://www.ted.com/talks/krista_tippett_reconnecting_with_compassion.html

Eliza Madrigal: I must go in 3 minutes...
Sunshine Vayandar: really
Eliza Madrigal: what an interesting session, yet strange rhythmically
Eliza Madrigal: awww
Sunshine Vayandar: ;p
Sunshine Vayandar: yes so many things during one session
Eliza Madrigal: YES
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Sun, and Thanks Yaku, and Arch :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ty all ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Big Hugs
Sunshine Vayandar: big hugs back
Sunshine Vayandar: have a great day

Eliza Madrigal: ah... wait....
Eliza Madrigal: I wanted to ask you Sun... about something you mentioned in a session re spirit worlds in SL...
Sunshine Vayandar: kk
Sunshine Vayandar: who?
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: hm... not sure... you read a paper from someone and mentioned it
Eliza Madrigal: I love that idea
Sunshine Vayandar: I mixed that a bit with my sangoma story
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and that wonderful picture
Sunshine Vayandar: about traditional healers
Eliza Madrigal: healers I think, let go of context when in role
Eliza Madrigal: do you think so?
Sunshine Vayandar: will send you some info
Sunshine Vayandar: sorry bell ;)
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes me too
Eliza Madrigal: we want to shed roles, but there are some roles that are like mantles
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay... have to go... long morning
Eliza Madrigal: hugs again and nice to see everyone
Sunshine Vayandar: have a fun day
Eliza Madrigal: U2!
Sunshine Vayandar: hugs ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: trying to see if I can install that software
Sunshine Vayandar: http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki...x.php/Download
Sunshine Vayandar: Yaku, Arch still here?
Yakuzza Lethecus: half
Sunshine Vayandar: kk ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyee for now - I let you carry on with other things
Yakuzza Lethecus: 7am is right after my workinghours
Yakuzza Lethecus: take care
Sunshine Vayandar: ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: have a nice evening there both
Yakuzza Lethecus: so i always dp a lot of multitasking
Sunshine Vayandar: np ;)
Sunshine Vayandar: byebyeee for now
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye arch and sun