The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Archmage Atlantis and Freud Jungsten

Unwelcome gifts:

Zen Arado: Hi Arch :)
Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Zen :)
Archmage Atlantis: Did others come and leave already?
Zen Arado: looks like someone left us some unwelcome presents
Archmage Atlantis: I sYes
Archmage Atlantis: Yes
Zen Arado: I can't find a way to return them
Archmage Atlantis: It needs to be reported to Linden Labs
Archmage Atlantis: They will take care of it
Zen Arado: how do you do that?
Archmage Atlantis: Umm, I have to think back to when I still had a sim
Zen Arado: if this land was mine I could do it probably
Zen Arado: but don't have full permissions here
Archmage Atlantis: Me either so I'm looking through the help
Zen Arado: it's sad that some people are so racist
Zen Arado: Just for the log - someone has left a few big cubes with Nazi slogans and pictures of Hitler against a swastika and others that say 'nigger free sim.' They also produce a loud siren and the sound of machine guns
Archmage Atlantis: Tks, the address you have is?
Zen Arado: the creator and owner is someone called Kronic0071 Nexen - but it is just an alt, only 1 day old
Archmage Atlantis: I found the method to report it, just waiting to see if it will allow me to do so
Freud Jungsten: osiyo
Zen Arado: Storm will be able to remove them anyway and his session is next
Zen Arado: Hi Freud
Freud Jungsten: What have I missed?
Zen Arado: we have been targeted by racists looks like
Freud Jungsten: Somehow I doubt it.
Zen Arado: these cubes were here when I arrived
Freud Jungsten: Looks like someone lamely trying to give that impression.
Freud Jungsten: Reported it?
Zen Arado: well, someone with racist tendencies
Zen Arado: trying to work out how to do that
Freud Jungsten: Doing it now.
Archmage Atlantis: ok, I sent an email to LL security
Archmage Atlantis: They came quickly the last place that I was where something like this happened
Archmage Atlantis: but the landowner called them
Freud Jungsten: Sadly the recent trend in the US has been people claiming to be the victims of racial attacks... and it turns out they did it themselves...
Zen Arado: yes - I feel so helpless because not the owner
Freud Jungsten: When I get racial discrimination these days it is mostly subtle stuff.
Zen Arado: oh - why do they do that Freud?
Freud Jungsten: Trying to prove a point or get attention or the like.
Freud Jungsten: Pisses me off as it calls into question the legitimacy of real descrimination concerns.
Zen Arado: I had a guy here a few weeks ago who started talkng about how he thought there were too many immigrants to Britain and it was losing its Englishness
Freud Jungsten: That is one perserpctive.
Zen Arado: aquis aquitaine he called it
Zen Arado: not sure what that means
Freud Jungsten: No idea.
Freud Jungsten: Sounds altinish.
Freud Jungsten: latinish
Freud Jungsten: But i don;t know much about Latin.
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: can't find it on google either
Archmage Atlantis: I sent a note to Pema and Storm also
Freud Jungsten: A lot of folks from my part of the coutry feel the similarlry...... "america" as it is called was inhabited by Native peoples long before Columbus "discovered" it..... and all the pople that follwed him should go home.
Archmage Atlantis: So it will get taken care of
Zen Arado: ok Arch - I was going to leave a message for Storm but his session is the next one anyway
Zen Arado: yes - all countries have n

Immigrant assimilation:

Zen Arado: been populated by successive waves of immigrants
Zen Arado: probably even the native Americans came from somewhere else
Freud Jungsten: True.
Zen Arado: so there is no 'pure' race
Freud Jungsten: But that was when the population of the continent was measured in thousands not hundreds of millions.
Archmage Atlantis: We are all descendent of immigrants........at some point in the past......And yes, bad things were done.......the important thing is to work toward a better present and future
Zen Arado: yes - we all came from Eastern Africa originally didn't we?
Freud Jungsten: True.... but that is way off from the origional point.
Zen Arado: agree Arch - we work with what is - not how it should be, I think
Archmage Atlantis: The genetics show 3 distinct waves of immigrants that we recognize now as native americans
Zen Arado: why does the size matter Freud?
Freud Jungsten: lmbo..... taken out of context.. sorry.
Archmage Atlantis: And here in Florida, the Seminoles accepted escaped slaves into their tribe, as they were mostly displaced Cherokee
Archmage Atlantis: So they are a blend also
Freud Jungsten: But the question is.... what is wrong wiht someone wanting to preseve their culture?
Freud Jungsten: If the Freinch want to keep France French.... to me, that is a good thing.
Archmage Atlantis: History should never be forgotten, and those who desire to preserve their way of life shoul have that option
Zen Arado: that is the main problem I think Freud
Zen Arado: assimilation of immigrants
Archmage Atlantis: But themselves as individual.......children should be allowed to choose after adulthood
Zen Arado: I think immigrants enliven a culture
Archmage Atlantis: The Amish in Pennsylvania have done that best imo
Zen Arado: add richness and variety
Zen Arado: and genetic diversity
Freud Jungsten: Or from that guys perspective.... they erode his culture.
Zen Arado: but I like to see assimilation I guess
Zen Arado: a kind of melting pot
Archmage Atlantis: Ramspringen is a time in the late teens when those who chose to do so leave the culture to live amoung the "English" as they call modern American culture
Zen Arado: not isolated ghettos
Archmage Atlantis: They can choose to return or not
Freud Jungsten: I just think that automatically saying that someone has issues becuase they want to keep their homeland for their kind is a bit off.
Zen Arado: people naturally feel more secure amongst their own ethnic group when they go to a new country though
Zen Arado: so why shouldn't they be allowed to form groups like that?
Freud Jungsten: There are people that want to get rid of reservations and tribal lands..... I will fight that.
Zen Arado: but hopefully in time they will be assimilated
Freud Jungsten: They are the only places where we can keep our ways going.
Freud Jungsten: No!
Freud Jungsten: I don't want to become some melted pot.... I am native and I want to keep those traditions and language and way of life intact.
Archmage Atlantis: Agree with Freud on that
Zen Arado: ok - assimilation is the problem then?
Archmage Atlantis: It should be a choice
Archmage Atlantis: By the individual
Zen Arado: oh yes - a natural evolution
Freud Jungsten: And if you chose not to, go somehwere else.
Archmage Atlantis: Fear is the main weapon of those who choose evil
Zen Arado: it is what causes a lot of the trouble where I live in N.Ireland
Freud Jungsten: People will find an excuse to hate regardless of the situation.
Freud Jungsten: You don't need race or culture for people to hate.
Archmage Atlantis: Some people will, true Freud
Zen Arado: and I prefer to think of myself as British rather than Irish
Archmage Atlantis: Some won't
Zen Arado: but a problem was created centuries ago by the British taking over land in Ireland
Zen Arado: so territory is a big factor too
Archmage Atlantis: Zen, have you claimed this log?
Zen Arado: yes
Archmage Atlantis: Good, it needs to be put in the record
Freud Jungsten: Yes.... but claiming "they did it to us first" is morally lame.
Archmage Atlantis: My families came from England, Scotland, and Ireland........And the Romans and the Nordic peoples invaded those places thousands of years ago
Zen Arado: was thinking of it in a more neutral way as a territorial claim that would inevitably cause friction
Zen Arado: I can identify myself as either British or Irish
Archmage Atlantis: What do you consider the "correct" answer to the problem you cite, Freud?
Freud Jungsten: Yes.... it always has.... but I just thinki there is nothing wrong with wanting to preserve your culture.... even if you are white and British.
Freud Jungsten: I think the responsiblity lies with the migrant.
Zen Arado: ok Freud - but if preserving your culture impinges on the rights of others it can cause trouble
Archmage Atlantis: And, tracing my genetic markers back indicates my male ancestors came from Poland
Zen Arado: it is a big problem in N.Ireland
Freud Jungsten: So what you are saying is that the rights of migrants trump those of natives?
Archmage Atlantis: No, just that a lot of injustice occured in the past
Archmage Atlantis: And the past is the past
Zen Arado: protestants here insist on marching every year to celebrate a battle fought over 3 hundred years ago and they march through Catholic areas
Archmage Atlantis: We live in the now
Zen Arado: it celebrates a battle where the protestants won a battle against a Catholic king
Zen Arado: so I would prefer it if they didn't have to celebrate the past so much, as Arch says
Zen Arado: but this is a very intractable problem
Freud Jungsten: Agreed... but is there a moreal difference in invading a place and forces your culture on them.... of mass migrating to a place and forcing your culture on the locals?
Archmage Atlantis: I would prefer no one celebrate a battle....
Zen Arado: or it is if you refuse to budge from a sectarian position
Freud Jungsten: And on that note... I am going to try and get another hour of sleep or so.
Freud Jungsten: Thanks for the chat folks.
Archmage Atlantis: Me too
Archmage Atlantis: :)
Freud Jungsten: do na da go hv i
Zen Arado: ok thanks for coming and enduring the background noise
Archmage Atlantis: Guess my note to LL wasn't very effective
Archmage Atlantis: Oh well
Archmage Atlantis: Later Zen
Archmage Atlantis: Take care
Zen Arado: don't worry Arch - wish I could have done more
Zen Arado: bye